Questions about Mk 3, 11-12, please

[Camboie]

11 Whenever the impure spirits saw him, they fell down before him and cried out, “You are the Son of God.” 12 But he gave them strict orders not to tell others about him.

Hi, everyone
I used to behave as a rather strict disciple of truth, and was troubled by this piece of scripture, for i interpreted it as an antithesis of my belief that every truth is a good thing to say. D'you know, please, whether this will of Jesus to keep secret his identity was intended :

• to respect some chronology for something more useful at a later date
• Not to reveal it to the disciples, for it would be barren to learn it from a possessed person, since that must become their creed
• for any other reason

d'you know, as well, since it seems the will of Jesus was to hide a truth, what distinguishes, for christian people, a good from a bad truth to say ?

 

[journeyman]

Hello Camboie.
The truth our Lord wanted us to know, is that he made himself of no reputation, so who do we think we are?

 

[D-D-W]

There were many instances where our Lord healed someone and then told them to tell no one. That was early on in His ministry; and after He publicly declared Himself as Messiah at the Temple during Chanukkah, (John 10) He no longer did that.

While we are never told why explicitly, IMO it was a timing thing.

 

[Camboie]

Hello Camboie.
The truth our Lord wanted us to know, is that he made himself of no reputation, so who do we think we are?

Thank you Journeyman,
Interesting! i think you're right, for reputation is a wordly worry. It's most people's concern. Yet, i wonder whether Jesus 'd not another reason, for how could we ignore it's not lying to say that Jesus is son of God? In fact, it's a truth as well. And not the least! Looks to me this Truth that's the center of our creed is growing a taboo subject throughout the Gospel. How paradoxical, if i'm not mistaken, is it not?

 

[Camboie]

There were many instances where our Lord healed someone and then told them to tell no one. That was early on in His ministry; and after He publicly declared Himself as Messiah at the Temple during Chanukkah, (John 10) He no longer did that.

While we are never told why explicitly, IMO it was a timing thing.

Thank you DDW
May be the choices i proposed are both ok. If it's not intrusive, what makes you think, please, it was a timing thing ? i know they explain the events through the two types of hours Jesus speaks of, but i fail to understand what time has to do with this struggle for the sake of Truth

 

[for_his_glory]

Mar 3:7 But Jesus withdrew himself with his disciples to the sea: and a great multitude from Galilee followed him, and from Judaea,
Mar 3:8 And from Jerusalem, and from Idumaea, and from beyond Jordan; and they about Tyre and Sidon, a great multitude, when they had heard what great things he did, came unto him.
Mar 3:9 And he spake to his disciples, that a small ship should wait on him because of the multitude, lest they should throng him.
Mar 3:10 For he had healed many; insomuch that they pressed upon him for to touch him, as many as had plagues.
Mar 3:11 And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God.
Mar 3:12 And he straitly charged them that they should not make him known.

When I read the whole thing I think Jesus told these unclean spirits not to say anything as He was so overwhelmed of the multitude that followed Him Jesus needed to rest for awhile.

 

[journeyman]

Thank you Journeyman,
Interesting! i think you're right, for reputation is a wordly worry. It's most people's concern. Yet, i wonder whether Jesus 'd not another reason, for how could we ignore it's not lying to say that Jesus is son of God? In fact, it's a truth as well. And not the least! Looks to me this Truth that's the center of our creed is growing a taboo subject throughout the Gospel. How paradoxical, if i'm not mistaken, is it not?

The problem is, our Savior only said what he did and did what he did, as an example for us.
It would have been far more just according to the law, for our King to have those who testified against him falsely put to death,

if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother;....Then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother: so shalt thou put the evil away from among you. Deu.19:18-19

See? The problem is theologians say God poured his wrath out on his innocent Son, but the gospel says, man poured his hatred out on Gods' innocent Son.

Jesus gives mankind ample opportunity to repent of the sins committed against him.
But can you imagine coming to your own creation and being spit on, or slapped in the face? Do people see Christ on earth in me? God help us all.

 

[Anaphora]

Proverbs 25:2. It is the glory of God to conceal a thing; But the honour of kings to search out a matter. If you have lock. Its obvious you need Key to open it. If Jesus wants secrets closed for a reason. Then the key isn't available. It's only what jesus permits or allows. Evil spirits tried to subvert Jesus ministry. Trying to mess up God's plan. The keys aren't available to evil spirits. They are subject to Jesus authority. I'll stop here. Think it over.

 

[miamited]

Hi, everyone
I used to behave as a rather strict disciple of truth, and was troubled by this piece of scripture, for i interpreted it as an antithesis of my belief that every truth is a good thing to say. D'you know, please, whether this will of Jesus to keep secret his identity was intended :

• to respect some chronology for something more useful at a later date
• Not to reveal it to the disciples, for it would be barren to learn it from a possessed person, since that must become their creed
• for any other reason

d'you know, as well, since it seems the will of Jesus was to hide a truth, what distinguishes, for christian people, a good from a bad truth to say ?

HI Camboie

You know, there's really no evidence that demon spirits talked to people. As I recall, all of the meetings between Jesus and some person with spirits, was that they would 'cause' them to do things. So, it might be worth asking, 'who' was it that Jesus didn't want these demon spirits telling,... he was here?

God bless,
Ted

 

[hawkman]

HI Camboie

You know, there's really no evidence that demon spirits talked to people. As I recall, all of the meetings between Jesus and some person with spirits, was that they would 'cause' them to do things. So, it might be worth asking, 'who' was it that Jesus didn't want these demon spirits telling,... he was here?

God bless,
Ted

The demon had a message for the seven sons of Secva in Acts 19 .
15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?
So much we don't know about demons .
The only message I have had from a demon was a snarl one night .

 

[miamited]

The demon had a message for the seven sons of Secva in Acts 19 .
15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?
So much we don't know about demons .
The only message I have had from a demon was a snarl one night .

Hi hawkman

You are right. I missed that example. However, I'm still not convinced, even with the one example you offer, that demons regularly 'talked' to people. Even in the example here, it seems that it is written in a manner that would offer that it wasn't a regular occurrence.

One day the evil spirit answered them, “Jesus I know, and Paul I know about, but who are you?”

So, as the account goes, this Jewish priest had been going about casting out demons in the name of Jesus, but then 'one day' the evil spirit answered him. So it just seems that this priest had been doing these exorcisms for some time before he was addressed by the spirit that he was currently working against.

So, I still think that any conversation between demon spirits and people, wasn't what Jesus intentioned when he told the demon spirit not to tell anyone who he was. I could, of course, be wrong in my understanding of this particular passage, but certainly find this idea worth considering, under the circumstances.

Here is an idea from research on the subject. From TGC (The Gospel Coalition) we read:
At this stage Jesus either didn’t yet want that message to be made known, or he didn’t want demons to be the ones revealing it—or perhaps both.

God bless,
Ted

 

[lastofall]

for me anyway, the Lord did this for an example for us to follow, that we exalt not ourselves, nor allow ourselves to be exalted; but that rather as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord: Christ wanted those to glorify His Father.

 

[hawkman]

You are right. I missed that example. However, I'm still not convinced, even with the one example you offer, that demons regularly 'talked' to people. Even in the example here, it seems that it is written in a manner that would offer that it wasn't a regular occurrence.

I am right once a day at least , lol . We as Christians know NOT to try and communicate with anything of the demonic realm, that includes trying to communicate with the dead . The lost of this world will be the ones talking to demonic if so inclined to communicate with the spirit world . It is not their dead ancestors they will hear speak but it will be demons . So I am saying if you invite the demonic to speak to you there is a possibility you will hear them speak . Do demons talk to people now ? Yes and it is more regular than we want to know about .

Bible verses about talking to the dead

So, I still think that any conversation between demon spirits and people, wasn't what Jesus intentioned when he told the demon spirit not to tell anyone who he was. I could, of course, be wrong in my understanding of this particular passage, but certainly find this idea worth considering, under the circumstances.

I think it was about the demons speaking to people . My idea on that is all of the demonic realm already knew who Jesus is .

Here is an idea from research on the subject. From TGC (The Gospel Coalition) we read:
At this stage Jesus either didn’t yet want that message to be made known, or he didn’t want demons to be the ones revealing it—or perhaps both.

I agree with this .

All of the demonic realm is a Christians enemy and I try to learn as much as I can about my enemy and their tactics .

 

[eddif]

Hi, everyone
I used to behave as a rather strict disciple of truth, and was troubled by this piece of scripture, for i interpreted it as an antithesis of my belief that every truth is a good thing to say. D'you know, please, whether this will of Jesus to keep secret his identity was intended :

• to respect some chronology for something more useful at a later date
• Not to reveal it to the disciples, for it would be barren to learn it from a possessed person, since that must become their creed
• for any other reason

d'you know, as well, since it seems the will of Jesus was to hide a truth, what distinguishes, for christian people, a good from a bad truth to say ?

John 18:31 kjv
31. Then said Pilate unto them, Take ye him, and judge him according to your law. The Jews therefore said unto him, It is not lawful for us to put any man to death:
32. That the saying of Jesus might be fulfilled, which he spake, signifying what death he should die.

Luke 4:29 kjv
29. And rose up, and thrust him out of the city, and led him unto the brow of the hill whereon their city was built, that they might cast him down headlong.
30. But he passing through the midst of them went his way,

D-D-W was right about timing. Jesus had to be crucified and avoided certain things to stay alive till he was crucified at the right time.

eddif

 

[gordon777]

The Pharisees never trusted in Christ, and wanted to destroy Him.

Jesus healed all the multitudes ( the Pharisees were, covetous, envious, hateful)

Christ did not want to be known for what He was doing, to fulfil what was spoken, the servant of the Lord, the Messiah, chosen beloved only Son of the Father, the Spirit of the Lord upon the Messiah, shows judgement to the Gentiles ( the Pharisee Jews did not see just judgement.)

Christ did not strive, nor cry, no man heard His voice in the streets, and He did all that until He sent forth judgement unto victory, and in His name the gentiles trusted.



Matthew 12:14 Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him.
15 But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all;
16 And charged them that they should not make him known:
17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,
18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.
19 He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets.
20 A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.
21 And in his name shall the Gentiles trust.


1 Corinthians 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[eddif]

The Pharisees never trusted in Christ, and wanted to destroy Him.

Jesus healed all the multitudes ( the Pharisees were, covetous, envious, hateful)

Christ did not want to be known for what He was doing, to fulfil what was spoken, the servant of the Lord, the Messiah, chosen beloved only Son of the Father, the Spirit of the Lord upon the Messiah, shows judgement to the Gentiles ( the Pharisee Jews did not see just judgement.)

Christ did not strive, nor cry, no man heard His voice in the streets, and He did all that until He sent forth judgement unto victory, and in His name the gentiles trusted.

Matthew 12:14 Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him.
15 But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all;
16 And charged them that they should not make him known:
17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,
18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.
19 He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets.
20 A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.
21 And in his name shall the Gentiles trust.


1 Corinthians 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Maybe most of the Pharisees were out to get Jesus, but at least one came by night to talk to Jesus. The later circumcision party caused much trouble among believers.
Romans 3:1-3

You have som good points .

All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Some gentiles caused trouble too.

Saul of Tarsus was not acting too beloved when he was called. Maybe the disciples were not too great before Pentecost. The disciples got possibly better after the resurrection, but still needed the Holy Spirit for empowerment to witness.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[gordon777]

Maybe most of the Pharisees were out to get Jesus, but at least one came by night to talk to Jesus. The later circumcision party caused much trouble among believers.
Romans 3:1-3

You have som good points .

All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Some gentiles caused trouble too.

Saul of Tarsus was not acting too beloved when he was called. Maybe the disciples were not too great before Pentecost. The disciples got possibly better after the resurrection, but still needed the Holy Spirit for empowerment to witness.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

All fell short of the glory of God, and Jesus made it plain who hears are His sheep and those who are not His sheep do not believe.

The Pharisees went to destroy Christ, and the Gentiles came to trust Him.


That is also why Jesus was not made known, as the Gentiles would trust in His name.

Also the Jews took stones to stone Christ again.

They sought to take Him, but He escaped out of their hand.




John 10:24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

John 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
39 Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand,

 

[WIP]

Remember, this is the Questions and Answers forum. Focus your posts on answering the OP's questions and avoid posting arguments about others' responses.

 

[gordon777]

When a poster says that some were good points ( in answer to the OP's questions) then some more good points ( in answer to the OP's questions again) is and was focusing on answering the OP's questions, and cant be focused on arguments, on other persons responses.

otherwise how would one ever be able to answer questions, without keeping focus on what the scriptures reveal of how Christ dealt with the Jews, and the Gentiles, in both an unknown, unreceived way, and then in a way the Gentiles could, it is this way again. ( between the Gentiles, and between the Jews.)


Isaiah 65:1I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name.
2 I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts;
3 A people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick;

Romans 10:19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.
20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

 

[Hopeful]

Hi, everyone
I used to behave as a rather strict disciple of truth, and was troubled by this piece of scripture, for i interpreted it as an antithesis of my belief that every truth is a good thing to say. D'you know, please, whether this will of Jesus to keep secret his identity was intended :

• to respect some chronology for something more useful at a later date
• Not to reveal it to the disciples, for it would be barren to learn it from a possessed person, since that must become their creed
• for any other reason

d'you know, as well, since it seems the will of Jesus was to hide a truth, what distinguishes, for christian people, a good from a bad truth to say ?

I think it was a timing thing.
Jesus didn't want Himself to be known on several occasions.
Even His life in Nazareth, instead of in Jerusalem, hid His real identity by hiding where He had been born. (John 7:41, 52)