Rapture Theory

[for_his_glory]

Let me start out by saying I use to believe in a Pretrib rapture as I was part of the majority rule teachings back in the day being taught by many Pastors as I had very little knowledge back then and figured since they were Pastors they should know what they were teaching. One day I was studying Matthew 24 and read in vs. 13 that those who endure until the end shall be saved. The end of what is what drew my attention to go dig deeper into Revelation. This also got me to thinking how many teach that after Rev Chapter 4 we (the Church) will no longer be here. Theory sounds good, but can also be very deceiving.

A rapture as some like to call it, but the Bible calls it being caught up to meet Jesus in the air, 1Thessalonians 4:13-18, will take place, but not the way others are teaching it to be before a great tribulation. No one will know when, not even Jesus himself will know, Matthew 24:36, but scripture does give us signs to watch for. There is no mention in scripture of a great seven year tribulation as we will always have tribulations until Jesus comes for us. There is no literal 1000-year reign with Christ either, because we reign with Christ the first time we ask him into our heart as we become joint heirs with him. Why would Jesus take us up to only bring us back down to a sinful world for another 1000 years. We will face much tribulation before Jesus returns as Gods word says this world will wax worse, 2Timothy 3:1-15, and those who endure until the end are those who will be saved, which means the end of all things this world will go through before the new heaven and new Jerusalem can be ushered down from heaven, Matthew 24:36, 37; Deuteronomy 4:30; Matthew 24:21; Acts 14:22; Romans 5:17; Matthew 24:13.

It is so imperative to understand those Spiritual words of God so we will not be taken as a thief in the night when Jesus returns. Revelation, which means veil rolled aside, starts with the seven churches that spiritually represent all Gods children as they are given the seven spirits of God to help keep them inline with the will of God. The seven spirits are wisdom, understanding, counsel, knowledge, reverence, might and the Spirit of the Lord. Revelation chapter 4 is used in the false teachings of a pretrib rapture that teaches the saints of God will be out of here before a Great Tribulation occurs. This is a monstrous deception of Satan that will cause many to fall away from God as we will go through everything of Revelations including the seven seals of judgment, seven trumpets of judgment, the harvest judgment, the seven vials of judgment right up to and including the two final battles when judgment comes on all the inhabitants on the earth dead and alive.

God does not want us to fear those things which must come, but be prepared for those things which have to come. If we are truly sealed by the Spirit of God through repentance then we need not fear what man can do to the flesh as we have the Holy Spirit dwelling in us as we have died to self and we no longer live, but Christ lives in us. We will be the witness of Christ to the world when the last of the abominations take place and our only concern needs to be of us being the witness to the nations that God has called us to be.
(1Thessalonians 4:16; Matthew 10:28)

There is no mention in scripture about a so called secret quiet rapture or a second chance after the saints of God are caught up to meet Jesus in the air as Jesus will descend with a shout and with the trump of God. This does not sound like it’s going to be a quiet so called rapture does it and every eye will see him and every knee will bow saints and those who choose to reject Jesus. The Holy Spirit dwells in us the believers and isn’t something that just floats around in the air so for this reason when we are taken up so is the Holy Spirit giving no one a second chance because we are sealed by Gods Spirit for Salvation and after the Spirit is taken up no one has a second chance.
(1Thessalonians 4:16; Rev 1:7; John 14:17; 2Corinthians 1:21, 22)

 

[JLB]

Let me start out by saying I use to believe in a Pretrib rapture as I was part of the majority rule teachings back in the day being taught by many Pastors as I had very little knowledge back then and figured since they were Pastors they should know what they were teaching. One day I was studying Matthew 24 and read in vs. 13 that those who endure until the end shall be saved. The end of what is what drew my attention to go dig deeper into Revelation. This also got me to thinking how many teach that after Rev Chapter 4 we (the Church) will no longer be here. Theory sounds good, but can also be very deceiving.

A rapture as some like to call it, but the Bible calls it being caught up to meet Jesus in the air, 1Thessalonians 4:13-18, will take place, but not the way others are teaching it to be before a great tribulation. No one will know when, not even Jesus himself will know, Matthew 24:36, but scripture does give us signs to watch for. There is no mention in scripture of a great seven year tribulation as we will always have tribulations until Jesus comes for us. There is no literal 1000-year reign with Christ either, because we reign with Christ the first time we ask him into our heart as we become joint heirs with him. Why would Jesus take us up to only bring us back down to a sinful world for another 1000 years. We will face much tribulation before Jesus returns as Gods word says this world will wax worse, 2Timothy 3:1-15, and those who endure until the end are those who will be saved, which means the end of all things this world will go through before the new heaven and new Jerusalem can be ushered down from heaven, Matthew 24:36, 37; Deuteronomy 4:30; Matthew 24:21; Acts 14:22; Romans 5:17; Matthew 24:13.

It is so imperative to understand those Spiritual words of God so we will not be taken as a thief in the night when Jesus returns. Revelation, which means veil rolled aside, starts with the seven churches that spiritually represent all Gods children as they are given the seven spirits of God to help keep them inline with the will of God. The seven spirits are wisdom, understanding, counsel, knowledge, reverence, might and the Spirit of the Lord. Revelation chapter 4 is used in the false teachings of a pretrib rapture that teaches the saints of God will be out of here before a Great Tribulation occurs. This is a monstrous deception of Satan that will cause many to fall away from God as we will go through everything of Revelations including the seven seals of judgment, seven trumpets of judgment, the harvest judgment, the seven vials of judgment right up to and including the two final battles when judgment comes on all the inhabitants on the earth dead and alive.

God does not want us to fear those things which must come, but be prepared for those things which have to come. If we are truly sealed by the Spirit of God through repentance then we need not fear what man can do to the flesh as we have the Holy Spirit dwelling in us as we have died to self and we no longer live, but Christ lives in us. We will be the witness of Christ to the world when the last of the abominations take place and our only concern needs to be of us being the witness to the nations that God has called us to be.
(1Thessalonians 4:16; Matthew 10:28)

There is no mention in scripture about a so called secret quiet rapture or a second chance after the saints of God are caught up to meet Jesus in the air as Jesus will descend with a shout and with the trump of God. This does not sound like it’s going to be a quiet so called rapture does it and every eye will see him and every knee will bow saints and those who choose to reject Jesus. The Holy Spirit dwells in us the believers and isn’t something that just floats around in the air so for this reason when we are taken up so is the Holy Spirit giving no one a second chance because we are sealed by Gods Spirit for Salvation and after the Spirit is taken up no one has a second chance.
(1Thessalonians 4:16; Rev 1:7; John 14:17; 2Corinthians 1:21, 22)

There is no mention in scripture about a so called secret quiet rapture...

This the definitely a nail in the coffin to that doctrine.

Once people see that the Coming of the Lord is in no way secret or hidden, then it becomes glaingly evident He can't come BEFORE the lawless one, whom He in fact destroys personally.


JLB

 

[Eugene]

Let me start out by saying I use to believe in a Pretrib rapture

Dear sister, you say rapture isn't in the bible, and that it is “Caught up,” but to be technical it is actually ἁρπάζω. Of course its derivative is harpazō.

To get serious, when you mention enduring to the end in Mat 24:13, But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Does your doctrine consider different ages or dispensations? In other words, to me the context of Matthew Chapter Twenty-four is the last three and one-half years of great tribulation. Enduring that period they enter the age to come.

Next is the fact that as Christians we are saved by grace through faith, and that not of ourselves. In that thinking, enduring the tribulation has to do with surviving to enter the millennial reign of Christ from heaven with all seen by John starting with Rev 4:1, “I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.” Thanks.

 

[Kathi]

The rapture will be instant.Jesus will meet the church in the clouds He will not touch His feet on the earth.Some people get the verses mixed up with the second coming.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
1 Corinthians 15:50-54

 

[Eugene]

Excerpts of Revelation Study by Gene Hawkins.

In 1 Thessalonians 5:2 we read that "The day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night." Now how do you reconcile that with "Behold He cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him?" If Jesus is only going to come one time and Thessalonians says He's coming as a thief, and Revelation 1:7 says that every eye shall see Him; those are two contradictory statements or they can't refer to the same time; they are two different appearances. He can't come as a thief if every eye is going to see Him and the interpretation is easy. 1 Thessalonians 5:2 happens before the tribulations even begins whereas Revelation 1:7 happens after the tribulation is all over.

1 Thessalonians 5:4. "But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief."

Revelation 3:2-3. "Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. 3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee." (This sounds very secret to me.)

 

[Kathi]

Excerpts of Revelation Study by Gene Hawkins.

In 1 Thessalonians 5:2 we read that "The day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night." Now how do you reconcile that with "Behold He cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him?" If Jesus is only going to come one time and Thessalonians says He's coming as a thief, and Revelation 1:7 says that every eye shall see Him; those are two contradictory statements or they can't refer to the same time; they are two different appearances. He can't come as a thief if every eye is going to see Him and the interpretation is easy. 1 Thessalonians 5:2 happens before the tribulations even begins whereas Revelation 1:7 happens after the tribulation is all over.

1 Thessalonians 5:4. "But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief."

Revelation 3:2-3. "Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. 3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee." (This sounds very secret to me.)

The rapture and the second coming are two separate events.1 Thessalonians 3:2-3 is referring to the second coming of Christ.In the rapture it will be instant Christ will not appear on this earth and everyone will not see Him.
You might want to review "The difference in the second coming and the rapture" thread in this forum.

 

[JLB]

The rapture will be instant.Jesus will meet the church in the clouds He will not touch His feet on the earth.Some people get the verses mixed up with the second coming.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
1 Corinthians 15:50-54

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words. 1 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, "Peace and safety!" then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.
1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:4

The rapture takes place after the resurrection! ... And the dead in Christ will rise first, Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

Paul is clearly teaching that this event is the Day of The Lord, in which Jesus comes with His saints to gather them at the resurrection.

... even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

... For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.

There is only one Day of the Lord.

There is only one Coming of the Lord.

so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28


When He comes, His saints will come with Him.

Behold, the day of the Lord is coming, And your spoil will be divided in your midst. 2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; The city shall be taken, The houses rifled, And the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into captivity, But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then the Lord will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle. 4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south. 5 Then you shall flee through My mountain valley, For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal. Yes, you shall flee As you fled from the earthquake In the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Thus the Lord my God will come, And all the saints with You. 6 It shall come to pass in that day That there will be no light; The lights will diminish. 7 It shall be one day Which is known to the Lord-- Neither day nor night. But at evening time it shall happen That it will be light. Zechariah 14:1-7


And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,

The rapture comes after the resurrection.

The resurrection occurs at His coming.

He comes once and his saints come with Him.

When He comes His feet will stand on the mount of olives.

When he comes, He will sit on His throne of glory and judge the nations.

31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. Matthew 25:31-32.


JLB

 

[Kathi]

Their is going to be on going disagreement about the rapture,second coming of Christ.I give my views.That is all I am interested in doing.There are going to be many views.I am not interested in debating who is wrong and who is right.

 

[JLB]

Their is going to be on going disagreement about the rapture,second coming of Christ.I give my views.That is all I am interested in doing.There are going to be many views.I am not interested in debating who is wrong and who is right.

I would be good if you would pick a phrase or statement from my post and tell me what part you disagree with.

Is it that Jesus comes only once?

Is it that the resurrection comes before the rapture?

Is it that when He comes His saints will come with Him?

The scriptures say, all those who are His will be Resurrected/Raptured at His Coming.

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.
But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. 1 Corinthians 15:22-23





JLB

 

[Deborah13]

Excerpts of Revelation Study by Gene Hawkins.

In 1 Thessalonians 5:2 we read that "The day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night." Now how do you reconcile that with "Behold He cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him?" If Jesus is only going to come one time and Thessalonians says He's coming as a thief, and Revelation 1:7 says that every eye shall see Him; those are two contradictory statements or they can't refer to the same time; they are two different appearances. He can't come as a thief if every eye is going to see Him and the interpretation is easy. 1 Thessalonians 5:2 happens before the tribulations even begins whereas Revelation 1:7 happens after the tribulation is all over.

1 Thessalonians 5:4. "But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief."

Revelation 3:2-3. "Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. 3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee." (This sounds very secret to me.)

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1Th 4:16 is the resurrection of those who have died in Christ.
Rev 20:5 says that it is the first resurrection
1TH 4:17 says after the dead in Christ are resurrected Then those who are alive will be caught up

How could the resurrection in 1Th 4:16 happen before the resurrection in Rev 20 which is the first one?

 

[Eugene]

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1Th 4:16 is the resurrection of those who have died in Christ.
Rev 20:5 says that it is the first resurrection
1TH 4:17 says after the dead in Christ are resurrected Then those who are alive will be caught up

How could the resurrection in 1Th 4:16 happen before the resurrection in Rev 20 which is the first one?

Good morning dear Sister Deborah13. Whether you agree or not, I hope I explain my view of the catching up of the saints, and the first and second resurrections.

There are two resurrections; one of all the righteous at the beginning of the millennium, and one of the dead at its conclusion.
Revelation 20:5. "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."
Revelation 20:6. "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years." This will include all those beheaded during the tribulation.

Does John describe saints shown below with Jesus and before the throne prior to the millennium? Being that each cohort of believers includes those asleep in Christ and those alive at His coming in the air, aren’t they also a part of the first resurrection? Thanks.

Rev 4:4 . . round about the throne . . four and twenty elders . .
Rev 4:6 . . in the midst of the throne . . four beasts . .
Rev 7:9 . . before the throne . . a great multitude . .
Rev 14:1 . . standing in heavenly Jerusalem . . 144,000

 

[JLB]

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1Th 4:16 is the resurrection of those who have died in Christ.
Rev 20:5 says that it is the first resurrection
1TH 4:17 says after the dead in Christ are resurrected Then those who are alive will be caught up

How could the resurrection in 1Th 4:16 happen before the resurrection in Rev 20 which is the first one?

The Resurrection of Revelation 20 is a reference to the Resurrection of 1 Thessalonians.

 

[Deborah13]

Good morning dear Sister Deborah13. Whether you agree or not, I hope I explain my view of the catching up of the saints, and the first and second resurrections.

There are two resurrections; one of all the righteous at the beginning of the millennium, and one of the dead at its conclusion.
Revelation 20:5. "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."
Revelation 20:6. "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years." This will include all those beheaded during the tribulation.

Does John describe saints shown below with Jesus and before the throne prior to the millennium? Being that each cohort of believers includes those asleep in Christ and those alive at His coming in the air, aren’t they also a part of the first resurrection? Thanks.

Rev 4:4 . . round about the throne . . four and twenty elders . .
Rev 4:6 . . in the midst of the throne . . four beasts . .
Rev 7:9 . . before the throne . . a great multitude . .
Rev 14:1 . . standing in heavenly Jerusalem . . 144,000

Good Morning, Eugene
Two resurrection:
I agree with you that all these you have listed are in the first resurrection, all in Christ, which includes those beheaded that did not worship the beast. All believers both dead and alive on that day.

And are you saying that 1Thess 4:16-17, is talking about this same day?

So seeing that there is only one resurrection for all believers what is the rapture?

I think, I must be misunderstanding you.

 

[JLB]

Good Morning, Eugene
Two resurrection:
I agree with you that all these you have listed are in the first resurrection, all in Christ, which includes those beheaded that did not worship the beast. All believers both dead and alive on that day.

And are you saying that 1Thess 4:16-17, is talking about this same day?

So seeing that there is only one resurrection for all believers what is the rapture?

I think, I must be misunderstanding you.

Those who are alive and remain, when Jesus Comes to gather His people at the Resurrection/Rapture.


JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

Dear sister, you say rapture isn't in the bible, and that it is “Caught up,” but to be technical it is actually ἁρπάζω. Of course its derivative is harpazō.

To get serious, when you mention enduring to the end in Mat 24:13, But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Does your doctrine consider different ages or dispensations? In other words, to me the context of Matthew Chapter Twenty-four is the last three and one-half years of great tribulation. Enduring that period they enter the age to come.

Next is the fact that as Christians we are saved by grace through faith, and that not of ourselves. In that thinking, enduring the tribulation has to do with surviving to enter the millennial reign of Christ from heaven with all seen by John starting with Rev 4:1, “I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.” Thanks.

First the only doctrine I have is that of Gods word alone. These studies I do are strictly from the word of God and not mans doctrines or commentaries. I can not find anywhere in scripture that speaks of a seven year trib period. From the time of the cross, which also means the last days, which includes what some like to separate and call the Great Tribulation, which is not mentioned anywhere in scripture and is not a separate event after the elect of God are caught up, but as the last days so we are in tribulation times until the end of the world as we know it; (Ref: Acts 2:17; Hebrews 1:1,2; Matthew 24:4-31; Mark 13:24-31; Luke 21:5-36). These are just some of the scriptures that support that we will go through all things of Revelation Chapters 6-21.

There is no literal 1000-year millennium reign with Christ either, because we reign with Christ the first time we ask him into our heart as we become joint heirs with him, Romans 8:17; 2Peter 3:8. Why would Jesus bring us back down to Earth for another 1000 years before ushering down the new heaven and new Jerusalem. Our timing of hours and days are not that of Gods timing.

 

[Deborah13]

The rapture will be instant.Jesus will meet the church in the clouds He will not touch His feet on the earth.Some people get the verses mixed up with the second coming.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
1 Corinthians 15:50-54

First let me put you at ease, I am just responding to your post and not expecting you to defend your position any more than you have.
I agree with you that 1 Thess. 45:16-17 and 1 Corinth. 15:50-54 are indeed the same event.
I agree with you that these scriptures do not say that Jesus' feet touch the earth.
I agree with you that this resurrection is only those who are in Christ.

So my point would be... the ones who died and did not take the mark of the beast are also in Christ. When are they resurrected?

 

[for_his_glory]

The rapture will be instant.Jesus will meet the church in the clouds He will not touch His feet on the earth.Some people get the verses mixed up with the second coming.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
1 Corinthians 15:50-54

It will be in the twinkling of an eye, but also not until the seventh trumpet is blown. 1Corinthians 15:52; Rev 11:15-19.
Can you give me scripture that states a second coming after we are caught up with Christ in the air as all I see is two resurrections. One being that of those who are asleep in the Lord and then another of those who are asleep that are not found written in the book of life. 1Thessalonians 4:16; John 5:28, 29.

 

[for_his_glory]

Excerpts of Revelation Study by Gene Hawkins.

In 1 Thessalonians 5:2 we read that "The day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night." Now how do you reconcile that with "Behold He cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him?" If Jesus is only going to come one time and Thessalonians says He's coming as a thief, and Revelation 1:7 says that every eye shall see Him; those are two contradictory statements or they can't refer to the same time; they are two different appearances. He can't come as a thief if every eye is going to see Him and the interpretation is easy. 1 Thessalonians 5:2 happens before the tribulations even begins whereas Revelation 1:7 happens after the tribulation is all over.

1 Thessalonians 5:4. "But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief."

Revelation 3:2-3. "Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. 3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee." (This sounds very secret to me.)

A thief in the night can only overcome one who is not aware of his coming, but we that are in Christ look for the signs of his coming so we will be prepared to go with him when he does return. We are also told in scripture that Jesus will return with a shout as the seventh trumpet blows and every eye will see him and every knee bow down to him. Doesn't sound very quiet to me.

Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Rev 11:15-19

 

[for_his_glory]

Their is going to be on going disagreement about the rapture,second coming of Christ.I give my views.That is all I am interested in doing.There are going to be many views.I am not interested in debating who is wrong and who is right.

I very seldom post in End Times unless I am lead by the Holy Spirit to do so. I knew when I posted this thread there would be a lot of debate and not everyone is going to agree with each other. This is why we share scriptures and explain what we believe so each one of us can go read and study them comparing scripture with scripture. It's more than just reading the scriptures, but digging deep into them. It took me ten years of deep study to come up with the things I have written and posted. As long as we keep this a friendly debate (not saying it hasn't been so far) we all might see and learn something we have never known before.

 

[reba]