Refuting Losing Salvation! (B)

[donadams]

Hi Brother! I was just discussing concerning receiving salvation. I think eternal life is something many if not most misunderstand; how does God take back eternal life?

first we must have the same understanding of terms or what it means otherwise we will never understand each other.

Eternal life and eternal salvation are not the same

eternal salvation:
this happens at the hour of death and our personal judgment for those who are in Christ

eternal life is the life of God, this the life that God gives us here and now if we are in Christ, it is refered to as grace.

It's not possible yo lose eternal salvation but it is possible to lose the grace of God.

it is a misconception to say "I have eternal life" and presumption to say "I have eternal security"

Trust in God and His promises gives assurance of hope, but presumption on God's grace and mercy is a sin against the Holy Spirit!

1 cor 13:13 three things are eternal, faith, hope, & charity!

thks

 

[netchaplain]

Nowhere in my post did I say anything about wanting or not wanting to "please" God?

I like everything you said, but the truth is that if anyone professing faith eventually desires not to "please" Him, it manifests they are not saved yet! Genuine Christians will always "desire" to please God, unless He's not "working" this in them (Phl 2:13.

Good Word, that salvation is through Faith only, but many do not understand, that genuine faith is also permanent; same with eternal life, which is salvation.

Nowhere in my post did I say anything about wanting or not wanting to "please" God? Salvation is by grace, through faith, not by works. It's all God's doing. Yes, He works within us to do the works He has planned for us to do, and we do bear fruit, but that doesn't contribute to our salvation.

Salvation is "by grace through faith", which means the response is an affirmation of knowing we have the Savior who forgives our sins. That response isn't what gives us salvation, it's the faith given to us by God that gives us salvation.

No one can say Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit. So I stand with what I have stated that unbelievers can't turn themselves to God, it's God who turns us to Him when He gives us faith (by his grace) so we believe.

I believe one first things is to have a personal and genuine desire to be right with God, and of course He knows who are not genuine. For as we are aware, there are many that profess faith but are not genuine. They are hypocrites and apostates, which have never received faith from God.

 

[Fish153]

Nowhere in my post did I say anything about wanting or not wanting to "please" God? Salvation is by grace, through faith, not by works. It's all God's doing. Yes, He works within us to do the works He has planned for us to do, and we do bear fruit, but that doesn't contribute to our salvation.



Salvation is "by grace through faith", which means the response is an affirmation of knowing we have the Savior who forgives our sins. That response isn't what gives us salvation, it's the faith given to us by God that gives us salvation.

No one can say Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit. So I stand with what I have stated that unbelievers can't turn themselves to God, it's God who turns us to Him when He gives us faith (by his grace) so we believe.

Lambie---

That's exactly what I am saying. Jesus is OUTSIDE the church. He is calling to ANYONE who hears his voice to open the door. The very CALL itself IS the Word of God: "Behold I stand at the door and knock, if anyone hears my voice and opens the door I WILL come into him" (Rev. 3:20). BY this VERY WORD the hearers are GIVEN THE MEANS to believe: "Faith COMES BY HEARING and hearing by the WORD OF GOD" (Rom. 10:17). They cannot come to Him unless He invites them---and that is EXACTLY what He is doing in Revelation 3:20. He is INVITING them, and GIVING THEM THE MEANS to OPEN THE DOOR to Him!

Revelation 3:20 is a call to ALL: to believers to return to him, and for unbelievers to let Him come into their lives.

 

[Thomas2]

(Misconception)
We have eternal salvation:

(Presumption)
We have eternal security:

(Error)
We cannot sin, most of the new testament does not apply to us!

examples:

mt 25:30
Eph 5:6, gal 5:1, 1 tim 5:12
1 cor 6:9-10 & 15-20
gal 5:19-21
eph 5:2-6
never inherit the kingdom of God or eternal salvation

We do not have eternal salvation or eternal security!

Jn 15:4 abide in Christ
mt 26:41 watch and pray
mt 7:7 ask and you shall receive
Lk 9:23 daily, deny thyself, take up thy cross and follow me.
mt 7:14 narrow road that leads to life
mt 10:22 mk 13:13 mt 24:13 endure to the end in patient suffering
rev 2:10 he who overcomes I shall give the crown of life!


eternal security violates the law of faith, "just shall live by faith" and it is presumption and sins against faith hope and charity! 1 cor 13:13

mt 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life...

James 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Hebrews 12:4
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

Ephesians 6:11
Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.


Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

I am saved and can walk after the flesh and fulfill the works of the flesh without any need for repentance and they have no effect on me!

But God's word says:

You are under condemnation and the wrath of God!

Children of disobedience are under condemnation and the wrath of God abides on them! eph 5:6

(((even if you think you're saved by "faith alone"!)))

We received the grace of justification, union with God thru Christ empowered by grace and the spirit to accomplish His divine will!

We can by sin lose grace and be separated from God in spiritual death until repentance or physical death which makes death eternal.

First a person needs to understand why you are someone, a teacher, speaks in the way they show scriptures, knowing they preach another Jesus, another gospel, false Christs, false prophets.

From there on it is easy to see that if satan comes as an angel of light to deceive, it is no great wonder if his ministers do the verry same deception, speaking good words, fair speeches, with an aim to beguile through subtilty, to cause corruption, confusion, of the simplicity that is in Christ.

So knowing these things, it answers back to how we can see the verses you showed for example, how they may seem to cause doubt in a person who has faith in Christ Jesus, ( who is with His sheep, who layed His life down for them and He knows His own sheep and they know Him.) but they have their word from their Good Shepherd not so they doubt, but so they follow, as faith is the opposite way to doubt, if we doubt we are damned, as whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Meanwhile not forgetting just yet the many false prophets that rise to deceive many, and how all of these all seem to have a form of godliness, they wrestle against all the scriptures to their own destruction, causing strife, contention, debate, dispute, and not godly edifying, as that is not their hearts intentions, and the word of God is sharp and has revealed all they are, whatever they think they are saying, or can say.

 

[Thomas2]

eternal salvation:
this happens at the hour of death and our personal judgment for those who are in Christ

eternal life is the life of God, this the life that God gives us here and now if we are in Christ, it is refered to as grace.

It's not possible yo lose eternal salvation but it is possible to lose the grace of God.

it is a misconception to say "I have eternal life" and presumption to say "I have eternal security"

Trust in God and His promises gives assurance of hope, but presumption on God's grace and mercy is a sin against the Holy Spirit!

1 cor 13:13 three things are eternal, faith, hope, & charity!

thks

Charity believes all things, hopes all things, charity never fails, but those without charity have all knowledge, or all faith to remove mountains, but do not have godly edifying which is in charity.

So to sum it up a little better for us all, those who fail of the grace of God have faith but not charity, that is eternal nothing, but those who have Christ, know that the understanding He has come and given to us, is eternal life, that is the living hope, not a failed one, which the many antichrists have come to deny Christ has come in the flesh to give us eternal life, and belief in HIs faithfulness keeps your faithfulness, and believing He layed HIs life down for us, we do the same through HIs Holy Spirit and the love of God shed into our hearts.

 

[Thomas2]

However, The Lord admonished us to remain in Him.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

As long as we remain in Him, we are joined to the eternal life that is only found in Him.

If we become disconnected from Him, then we are no longer "joined to His Spirit" and therefore we no longer have the eternal life we once had.

This being joined to Him, as one spirit with His Spirit, is called "knowing Him".

And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
John 17:3

Here is how we are instructed to remain in Christ.

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

If anyone does not be in Christ they are cast out as a branch, abide in Him and they bring forth much fruit, for WITHOUT HIM THEY CAN DO NOTHING.

Eternal life is knowing that Jesus Christ is the Son of God the Father sent to be propitiation for our sins, giving us a good conscience through the Holy Ghost and the love of God shed into our hearts, which are those who abide in His love, as He kept HIs Fathers commandments and abide in His love.


John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

1 John 2:10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.

1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.




Also there is no cause to doubt, as whatsoever is not of faith IS SIN.



Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

 

[Thomas2]

Lambie---

That's exactly what I am saying. Jesus is OUTSIDE the church. He is calling to ANYONE who hears his voice to open the door. The very CALL itself IS the Word of God: "Behold I stand at the door and knock, if anyone hears my voice and opens the door I WILL come into him" (Rev. 3:20). BY this VERY WORD the hearers are GIVEN THE MEANS to believe: "Faith COMES BY HEARING and hearing by the WORD OF GOD" (Rom. 10:17). They cannot come to Him unless He invites them---and that is EXACTLY what He is doing in Revelation 3:20. He is INVITING them, and GIVING THEM THE MEANS to OPEN THE DOOR to Him!

Revelation 3:20 is a call to ALL: to believers to return to him, and for unbelievers to let Him come into their lives.

The invitation came from the beginning, not from the ending.


Isaiah 29:14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for THE WISDOM OF THEIR WISE MEN SHALL PERISH, and the understanding of their prudent men SHALL BE HID.

Jeremiah 9:23 Thus saith the Lord, LET NOT THE WISE MAN GLORY IN HIS WISDOM, neither let THE MIGHTY MAN GLORY IN HIS MIGHT, let not THE RICH MAN GLORY IN HIS RICHES:
24 BUT LET HIM THAT GLORIETH GLORY IN THIS, THAT HE UNDERSTANDETH AND KNOWETH ME, that I AM THE LORD which exercise LOVINGKINDNESS, JUDGMENT, AND RIGHTEOUSNESS, in the earth: for IN THESE THINGS I DELIGHT, saith the Lord.

1 Corinthians 1:18 For THE PREACHING OF THE CROSS IS TO THEM THAT PERISH FOOLISHNESS; but UNTO US WHICH ARE SAVED IT IS THE POWERR OF GOD.
19 For IT IS WRITTEN, I will DESTROY THE WISDOM OF THE WISE, and will BRING TO NOTHING THE UNDERSTANDING OF THE PRUDENT.

1 Corinthians 1:26 For YE SEE YOUR CALLING, BRETHREN, how that NOT MANY WISE MEN AFTER THE FLESH, not MANY MIGHTY, not MANY NOBLE, are CALLED:
27 But GOD HATH CHOSEN THE FOOLISH THINGS OF THE WORLD TO CONFOUND THE WISE; and God hath CHOSEN THE WEAK THINGS OF THE WORLD TO CONFOUND THE THINGS WHICH ARE MIGHTY;
28 And BASE THINGS OF THE WORLD, and THINGS WHICH ARE DESPISED, hath God chosen, yea, and THINGS WHICH ARE NOT, TO BRING TO NOTHING THINGS THAT ARE:
29 That NO FLESH SHOULD GLORY IN HIS PRESENCE.

2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause GOD SHALL SEND THEM STRONG DELUSION, THAT THEY SHOULD BELIEVE A LIE:
12 That they ALL MIGHT BE DAMNED WHO BELIEVED NOT THE TRUTH, but HAD PLEASURE IN UNRIGHTEOSNESS.
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because GOD HATH FROM THE BEGINNING CHOSEN YOU TO SALVATION THROUGH SANCTIFICATION OF THE SPIRIT AND BELIEF OF THE TRUTH:
14 Whereunto HE CALLED YOU BY OUR GOSPEL, to THE OBTAINING OF THE GLORY OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST.

Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for WHATSOEVER IS NOT OF FAITH IS SIN.

2 Peter 2:13 And SHALL RECEIVE THE REWARD OF UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;

 

[donadams]

First a person needs to understand why you are someone, a teacher, speaks in the way they show scriptures, knowing they preach another Jesus, another gospel, false Christs, false prophets.

From there on it is easy to see that if satan comes as an angel of light to deceive, it is no great wonder if his ministers do the verry same deception, speaking good words, fair speeches, with an aim to beguile through subtilty, to cause corruption, confusion, of the simplicity that is in Christ.

So knowing these things, it answers back to how we can see the verses you showed for example, how they may seem to cause doubt in a person who has faith in Christ Jesus, ( who is with His sheep, who layed His life down for them and He knows His own sheep and they know Him.) but they have their word from their Good Shepherd not so they doubt, but so they follow, as faith is the opposite way to doubt, if we doubt we are damned, as whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Meanwhile not forgetting just yet the many false prophets that rise to deceive many, and how all of these all seem to have a form of godliness, they wrestle against all the scriptures to their own destruction, causing strife, contention, debate, dispute, and not godly edifying, as that is not their hearts intentions, and the word of God is sharp and has revealed all they are, whatever they think they are saying, or can say.

so how do we fulfill Jn 8:32 and know truth?

thks

 

[JLB]

If anyone does not be in Christ they are cast out as a branch, abide in Him and they bring forth much fruit, for WITHOUT HIM THEY CAN DO NOTHING.

Eternal life is knowing that Jesus Christ is the Son of God the Father sent to be propitiation for our sins, giving us a good conscience through the Holy Ghost and the love of God shed into our hearts, which are those who abide in His love, as He kept HIs Fathers commandments and abide in His love.


John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

1 John 2:10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.

1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.




Also there is no cause to doubt, as whatsoever is not of faith IS SIN.



Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

It would futile to claim that we have eternal life after having been removed from Christ.

 

[donadams]

Charity believes all things, hopes all things, charity never fails, but those without charity have all knowledge, or all faith to remove mountains, but do not have godly edifying which is in charity.

So to sum it up a little better for us all, those who fail of the grace of God have faith but not charity, that is eternal nothing, but those who have Christ, know that the understanding He has come and given to us, is eternal life, that is the living hope, not a failed one, which the many antichrists have come to deny Christ has come in the flesh to give us eternal life, and belief in HIs faithfulness keeps your faithfulness, and believing He layed HIs life down for us, we do the same through HIs Holy Spirit and the love of God shed into our hearts.

how do we receive this?

 

[Fish153]

The invitation came from the beginning, not from the ending.


Isaiah 29:14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for THE WISDOM OF THEIR WISE MEN SHALL PERISH, and the understanding of their prudent men SHALL BE HID.

Jeremiah 9:23 Thus saith the Lord, LET NOT THE WISE MAN GLORY IN HIS WISDOM, neither let THE MIGHTY MAN GLORY IN HIS MIGHT, let not THE RICH MAN GLORY IN HIS RICHES:
24 BUT LET HIM THAT GLORIETH GLORY IN THIS, THAT HE UNDERSTANDETH AND KNOWETH ME, that I AM THE LORD which exercise LOVINGKINDNESS, JUDGMENT, AND RIGHTEOUSNESS, in the earth: for IN THESE THINGS I DELIGHT, saith the Lord.

1 Corinthians 1:18 For THE PREACHING OF THE CROSS IS TO THEM THAT PERISH FOOLISHNESS; but UNTO US WHICH ARE SAVED IT IS THE POWERR OF GOD.
19 For IT IS WRITTEN, I will DESTROY THE WISDOM OF THE WISE, and will BRING TO NOTHING THE UNDERSTANDING OF THE PRUDENT.

1 Corinthians 1:26 For YE SEE YOUR CALLING, BRETHREN, how that NOT MANY WISE MEN AFTER THE FLESH, not MANY MIGHTY, not MANY NOBLE, are CALLED:
27 But GOD HATH CHOSEN THE FOOLISH THINGS OF THE WORLD TO CONFOUND THE WISE; and God hath CHOSEN THE WEAK THINGS OF THE WORLD TO CONFOUND THE THINGS WHICH ARE MIGHTY;
28 And BASE THINGS OF THE WORLD, and THINGS WHICH ARE DESPISED, hath God chosen, yea, and THINGS WHICH ARE NOT, TO BRING TO NOTHING THINGS THAT ARE:
29 That NO FLESH SHOULD GLORY IN HIS PRESENCE.

2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause GOD SHALL SEND THEM STRONG DELUSION, THAT THEY SHOULD BELIEVE A LIE:
12 That they ALL MIGHT BE DAMNED WHO BELIEVED NOT THE TRUTH, but HAD PLEASURE IN UNRIGHTEOSNESS.
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because GOD HATH FROM THE BEGINNING CHOSEN YOU TO SALVATION THROUGH SANCTIFICATION OF THE SPIRIT AND BELIEF OF THE TRUTH:
14 Whereunto HE CALLED YOU BY OUR GOSPEL, to THE OBTAINING OF THE GLORY OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST.

Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for WHATSOEVER IS NOT OF FAITH IS SIN.

2 Peter 2:13 And SHALL RECEIVE THE REWARD OF UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;

What's your point?

 

[Thomas2]

so how do we fulfill Jn 8:32 and know truth?

thks

Answered clearly in the text, but I highlighted to show a little clearer with ALL CONTEXT INCLUDED ALSO. ( FOR ALL TO SEE.)



John 6:34 Then SAID THEY UNTO HIM, LORD, EVERMORE GIVE US THIS BREAD.
35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
36 But I said unto you, That YE ALSO HAVE SEEN ME, AND BELIEVE NOT.
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 AND YE SHALL KNOW THE TRUTH, and the truth shall make you free.
33 They answered him, WE BE ABRAHAM'S SEED, and were NEVER IN BONDAGE TO ANY MAN: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36 IF THE SON THEREFORE HALL MAKE YOU FREE, YE SHALL BE FREE INDEED.

John 8:39 THEY ANSWERED AND SAID UNTO HIM, ABRAHAM IS OR FATHER, Jesus saith unto them, IF YE WERE ABRAHAM'S CHILDREN, ye would do the works of Abraham.

John 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, A MAN THAT HATH TOLD YOU THE TRUTH, which I have HEARD OF GOD: THIS DID NOT ABRAHAM.

John 10:24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, HOW LONG DOST THOU MAKE US TO DOUBT? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
25 Jesus answered them, I TOLD YOU, AND YE BELIEVED NOT: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
26 But YE BELIEVE NOT, BECAUSE YE ARE NOT OF MY SHEEP, as I said unto you.
27 MY SHEEP HAR MY VOICE, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

 

[Thomas2]

It would futile to claim that we have eternal life after having been removed from Christ.

We are in Christ when we can gather life unto fruit eternal, it would be futile to be in Christ when we cannot. ( that scriptures show when this is, one way, no other alternative is mentioned anywhere.)


John 4:36 And he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life eternal: that both he that soweth and he that reapeth may rejoice together.

John 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (But this spake he of THE SPIRIT, WHICH THEY THAT BELIEVE ON HIOM SHOLD RECEIVE: FOR THE HOLY GHOST WAS NOT YET GIVEN, BECASE THAT JESUS WASS NOT YET GLORIFIED.)

Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 WHAT FRUIT HAD YE THEN IN THOSE THINGS WHEREOF YE ARE NOW ASHAMED? for the end of those things is death.
22 BUT NOW BEING MADE FREE FROM SIN, and become servants to God, YE HAVE YOUR FRUIT UNTO HOLINESS, and THE END EVERLASTING LIFE.
23 For the wages of sin is death; but THE GIFT OF GOD IS ETERNAL LIFE THROUGH JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD.

 

[Thomas2]

What's your point?

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[JLB]

22 BUT NOW BEING MADE FREE FROM SIN, and become servants to God, YE HAVE YOUR FRUIT UNTO HOLINESS, and THE END EVERLASTING LIFE.

The end result of a life surrendered to God is everlasting life.

 

[Thomas2]

The end result of a life surrendered to God is everlasting life.

Of a gift received from Christ Jesus.


Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
3 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37 ;Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

 

[Fish153]

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Yes--- but the verse in question was Revelation 3:20: "Behold I stand at the door and knock. If any man hear my voice and open the door I will come into him and sup with him and he with Me". This is a definite Gospel call. He is not just talking to believers who are lukewarm in the Laodicean church. It is a call to ALL men that Christ is knocking on the door of their hearts. If they hear Him, to open the door and He WILL come in.

"Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God". (Rom. 10:17) His very call is SCRIPTURE. It is the Word of God. So He is not only calling to them--He is providing a door to faith by His very words. Revelation 3:20 has been used universally for hundreds of years as a Gospel call. To have someone argue that it isn't for unbelievers is completely wrong. People have been brought to salvation by this verse!

 

[Lambie]

Yes--- but the verse in question was Revelation 3:20: "Behold I stand at the door and knock. If any man hear my voice and open the door I will come into him and sup with him and he with Me". This is a definite Gospel call. He is not just talking to believers who are lukewarm in the Laodicean church. It is a call to ALL men that Christ is knocking on the door of their hearts. If they hear Him, to open the door and He WILL come in.

"Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God". (Rom. 10:17) His very call is SCRIPTURE. It is the Word of God. So He is not only calling to them--He is providing a door to faith by His very words. Revelation 3:20 has been used universally for hundreds of years as a Gospel call. To have someone argue that it isn't for unbelievers is completely wrong. People have been brought to salvation by this verse!

A verse used toward nonbelievers for hundreds of years...meaning it's more of a modern invention (traced back to the Puritans in the 17th century).

 

[donadams]

The end result of a life surrendered to God is everlasting life.

servants of God!

deeds of the spirit!

works of righteousness acts 10:35

means of salvation is according to the purpose of creation!

To know, love, & serve God!

((Knowledge of God))

1 tim 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2 Peter 3:18
But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

((Love of God))

Deut. 6:5 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

1 cor 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, without charity, avails nothing.

1 cor 13:13 And now three things are eternal faith, hope, charity, but the greatest of these is charity.

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

John 14:21
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

((Serve God))

Acts 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Romans 6:19
I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

thanks

 

[Fish153]

A verse used toward nonbelievers for hundreds of years...meaning it's more of a modern invention (traced back to the Puritans in the 17th century).

Thousands upon thousands have been saved hearing it so whenever it was first used the fact is the Lord intended to draw unbelievers to Himself.