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Romans 14:5,6 - Anti sabbath?

guibox

Member
Many of our 'law abrogating' brethren seem to think that these verses preach that Paul says we can observe any day and the Sabbath doesn't matter. I really can't change their minds as they are made up

However, someone must approach this from a proper contextual study even if many would rather ignore the meat of the scriptures for their own interpretation regardless of the facts.

Let's look at it. My research is taken largely from Dr. Bacchiocchi's book "The Sabbath Under Crossfire"

The Sabbath is not specifically mentioned in Paul’s Epistle to the Romans. However, in chapter 14, the Apostle distinguishes between two types of believers: the "strong" who believed "he may eat anything" and the "weak" who ate only "vegetables" and drank no wine (Rom 14:2, 21). The difference extended also to the observance of days, as indicated by Paul’s statement: "One man esteems one day as better than another, while another man esteems all days alike. Let every one be fully convinced in his own mind" (Rom 14:5). 

Many Christians maintain that the weekly Sabbath comes within the scope of this distinction respecting days. They presume that the "weak" believers esteemed the Sabbath better than other days while "the strong" treated the Sabbath like the rest of the weekdays.

Can the Sabbath be legitimately read into this passage? The answer is "No!" for at least three reasons. First, the conflict between the "weak" and the "strong" over diet and days cannot be traced back to the Mosaic law. The "weak man" who "eats only vegetables" (Rom 14:2), drinks no wine (Rom 14:21), and "esteems one day as better [apparently for fasting] than another" (Rom 14:5) can claim no support for such convictions from the Old Testament. Nowhere does the Mosaic law prescribe strict vegetarianism, total abstinence from fermented and unfermented wine and a preference for fasting days. 

Similarly, the "strong man" who "believes he may eat anything" (Rom 14:2) and who "esteems all days alike" is not asserting his freedom from the Mosaic law but from ascetic beliefs apparently derived from sectarian movements.

The whole discussion then is not about freedom to observe the law versus freedom from its observance, but concerns human superstitions dictating the consciences of believers

Since these differing convictions and practices did not undermine the essence of the Gospel, Paul advises mutual tolerance and respect in this matter.

That the Mosaic law is not at stake in Romans 14 is also indicated by the term "koinosâ€â€common" which is used in verse 14 to designate "unclean" food. This term is radically different from the word "akathartosâ€â€impure" used in Leviticus 11 to designate unlawful foods.

This suggests that the dispute was not over meat which was unlawful according to the Mosaic Law, but about meat which per se was lawful to eat but because of its association with idol worship was regarded by some as "koinosâ€â€common," that is, to be avoided by Christians.

Finally, if as generally presumed, it was the "weak" believer who observed the Sabbath, Paul would classify himself with the "weak" since he observed the Sabbath and other Jewish feasts. Paul, however, views himself as "strong" ("we who are strong"â€â€Rom 15:1); thus, he could not have been thinking of Sabbathkeeping when he speaks of the preference over days.

Support for this conclusion is also provided by Paul’s advice: "Let every one be fully convinced in his own mind" (Rom 14:5). It is difficult to see how Paul could reduce the observance of holy days such as the Sabbath, Passover, and Pentecost to a matter of personal conviction without ever explaining the reason for it. This is especially surprising since he labors at great length to explain why circumcision was not binding upon the Gentiles.

If Paul taught his Gentile converts to regard Sabbathkeeping as a personal matter, Jewish Christians readily would have attacked him in setting aside the Sabbath law, as they did regarding circumcision (Acts 21:21). The fact that there is no hint of any such controversy in the New Testament indicates that Paul never discouraged Sabbathkeeping or encouraged Sundaykeeping instead.



The fact that Paul devotes 21 verses to the discussion of food and less than two verses to that of days suggests that the latter was a very limited problem for the Roman Church.

In the Roman world there was a superstitious belief that certain days were more favorable than others for undertaking some specific projects. The Fathers frequently rebuked Christians for adopting such a superstitious mentality. Possibly, Paul alludes to this kind of problem, which at his time was still too small to deserve much attention.

In the light of these considerations, we conclude that it is hardly possible that Sabbathkeeping is included in the "days" of Romans 14:5.
 
Good post....

It about sums up some of the dangers in translated text...

Good work...
 
guibox said:
Many of our 'law abrogating' brethren seem to think that these verses preach that Paul says we can observe any day and the Sabbath doesn't matter. I really can't change their minds as they are made up

However, someone must approach this from a proper contextual study even if many would rather ignore the meat of the scriptures for their own interpretation regardless of the facts.

Let's look at it. My research is taken largely from Dr. Bacchiocchi's book "The Sabbath Under Crossfire"

The Sabbath is not specifically mentioned in Paul’s Epistle to the Romans. However, in chapter 14, the Apostle distinguishes between two types of believers: the "strong" who believed "he may eat anything" and the "weak" who ate only "vegetables" and drank no wine (Rom 14:2, 21). The difference extended also to the observance of days, as indicated by Paul’s statement: "One man esteems one day as better than another, while another man esteems all days alike. Let every one be fully convinced in his own mind" (Rom 14:5). 

Many Christians maintain that the weekly Sabbath comes within the scope of this distinction respecting days. They presume that the "weak" believers esteemed the Sabbath better than other days while "the strong" treated the Sabbath like the rest of the weekdays.

Can the Sabbath be legitimately read into this passage? The answer is "No!" for at least three reasons. First, the conflict between the "weak" and the "strong" over diet and days cannot be traced back to the Mosaic law. The "weak man" who "eats only vegetables" (Rom 14:2), drinks no wine (Rom 14:21), and "esteems one day as better [apparently for fasting] than another" (Rom 14:5) can claim no support for such convictions from the Old Testament. Nowhere does the Mosaic law prescribe strict vegetarianism, total abstinence from fermented and unfermented wine and a preference for fasting days. 

Similarly, the "strong man" who "believes he may eat anything" (Rom 14:2) and who "esteems all days alike" is not asserting his freedom from the Mosaic law but from ascetic beliefs apparently derived from sectarian movements.

The whole discussion then is not about freedom to observe the law versus freedom from its observance, but concerns human superstitions dictating the consciences of believers

Since these differing convictions and practices did not undermine the essence of the Gospel, Paul advises mutual tolerance and respect in this matter.

That the Mosaic law is not at stake in Romans 14 is also indicated by the term "koinosâ€â€common" which is used in verse 14 to designate "unclean" food. This term is radically different from the word "akathartosâ€â€impure" used in Leviticus 11 to designate unlawful foods.

This suggests that the dispute was not over meat which was unlawful according to the Mosaic Law, but about meat which per se was lawful to eat but because of its association with idol worship was regarded by some as "koinosâ€â€common," that is, to be avoided by Christians.

Finally, if as generally presumed, it was the "weak" believer who observed the Sabbath, Paul would classify himself with the "weak" since he observed the Sabbath and other Jewish feasts. Paul, however, views himself as "strong" ("we who are strong"â€â€Rom 15:1); thus, he could not have been thinking of Sabbathkeeping when he speaks of the preference over days.

Support for this conclusion is also provided by Paul’s advice: "Let every one be fully convinced in his own mind" (Rom 14:5). It is difficult to see how Paul could reduce the observance of holy days such as the Sabbath, Passover, and Pentecost to a matter of personal conviction without ever explaining the reason for it. This is especially surprising since he labors at great length to explain why circumcision was not binding upon the Gentiles.

If Paul taught his Gentile converts to regard Sabbathkeeping as a personal matter, Jewish Christians readily would have attacked him in setting aside the Sabbath law, as they did regarding circumcision (Acts 21:21). The fact that there is no hint of any such controversy in the New Testament indicates that Paul never discouraged Sabbathkeeping or encouraged Sundaykeeping instead.



The fact that Paul devotes 21 verses to the discussion of food and less than two verses to that of days suggests that the latter was a very limited problem for the Roman Church.

In the Roman world there was a superstitious belief that certain days were more favorable than others for undertaking some specific projects. The Fathers frequently rebuked Christians for adopting such a superstitious mentality. Possibly, Paul alludes to this kind of problem, which at his time was still too small to deserve much attention.

In the light of these considerations, we conclude that it is hardly possible that Sabbathkeeping is included in the "days" of Romans 14:5.

So then, where in the NT after Christ died, did Paul say that the Sabbath was a day of the week, Guibox? :o In fact, it says the opposite. But as Hebrews 4:1-9 tells us, only those who have entered God's rest know that the Sabbath is Jesus Christ our Lord. But those who haven't entered His rest still see the Sabbath the same way the Jews still do, as a day of the week. Sorry.
 
Heidi said:
So then, where in the NT after Christ died, did Paul say that the Sabbath was a day of the week, Guibox? :o In fact, it says the opposite. But as Hebrews 4:1-9 tells us, only those who have entered God's rest know that the Sabbath is Jesus Christ our Lord. But those who haven't entered His rest still see the Sabbath the same way the Jews still do, as a day of the week. Sorry.

My purpose wasn't to debate Hebrews 4 but to show the folly of trying to use Romans 14 for your 'sabbath abrogating' purposes. I think that has been accomplished. So until it is hashed out, Heidi, ride the Hebrews 4 bandwagon all you want...just don't try and refer to Romans 14 to support your views. To do so is to basically believe what you want despite the context.

Why should Paul rewrite and reiterate all the doctrine taken for granted? The fact that he taught Gentiles on the Sabbath with no comments about the supposed changed of day in Acts 13. Here was a perfect time for Paul to set the Gentiles straight on the day! Paul preached to the Gentiles about Christ and His resurrection, the exact event that supposedly abolished the Sabbath! (vs 27-41). And yet in this entire sermon do we read of a change of day? The Jews leave and now Paul, free of Jewish condemnation tells the Gentiles to come back tomorrow on the Sunday to hear the message!

What?? No??

"And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besouth that these words might be preached to them the NEXT Sabbath...And the next Sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God" vs 42,44

Not the next day, but the next week! Does that mean that Paul wasn't 'working' or preaching that entire week? Obviously not as he preached every day, but here was a religious gathering the next Sabbath.

Where is Paul's admonishment or mention of changing a day? Where is the controversy of such an action (that seems to be absent from the scriptures).

No, the Sabbath for worship and a day of rest was still a given and no mention to the contrary is ever given.
 
Lewis W said:
Please check out these links, I like the first one the best. But anyway this is a good collection, of links on this subject.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/sabbath.htm

I quickly glanced through the above link, Lewis, and wondered for a while where it was headed. I guess the conclusion reached was that it doesn't matter whether the Sabbath be Saturday or Sunday. At least the tone of the item seemed to remain unbiased.

What we need to bear in mind here is the issue itself and as to WHY people have this overwhelming desire to defend Sunday worship ...a day never authorized by God. All of the reasons given, the excuses, the references to the traditional practice of the early church, does not change that fact. GOD never authorized it.

Had Christians merely continued to observe the 7th-day Sabbath from the beginning, then there would be no debates such as this. No one would even DREAM of putting Sunday forward as a substitute day. The issue here is SUNDAY, not the Sabbath Day. The issue is WHO changed the Sabbath Day to Sunday and for WHAT purpose. If the answer to this lies in a pagan worship practice then we perhaps need to take the issue very seriously. Not too many Christians on this board do, unfortunately.
 
SputnikBoy said:
The issue here is SUNDAY, not the Sabbath Day. The issue is WHO changed the Sabbath Day to Sunday and for WHAT purpose. If the answer to this lies in a pagan worship practice then we perhaps need to take the issue very seriously. Not too many Christians on this board do, unfortunately.[/color]

Despite our Sunday brethren's desperate attempts to try and make two bible verses fit their preconceived ideas and defend Sunday worship from it, the bible doesn't support it but rather supports Sabbath worship at every turn (both by Paul and Christ and James indirectly by his referencing the 10 commandments).

Ultimately, the desire to worship on Sunday and distance Christian's from the Sabbath stems in anti-semitism brought on by Roman persecution due to association with the Jews. Justin Martyr's ultimate motivation for approaching Emporer Hadrian was for such a purpose. (He did give the 'eighth day of the Son' argument but both he and Barnabas as well as other early church fathers were avid anti-semites). The council of Laodicea in enacting Sunday worship makes this anti-semitic motivation clear.

Eventually as Christianity and paganism began to mix, Sunday worship also served as a witnessing tool to the sun-worshipping pagans) By worshipping on the same day, they could introduce the Son of God in place of the sun-god. For you scoffers, where do you think the date of December 25 stems from? There was a major push to amalgamate pagans into the church and with that came their pagan ideas.

Constantine's Sunday Law in 321 A.D further supported this 'killing two birds with one stone' philosophy.
 
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