Bible Study Sin Nature

[Soul man]

Nothing that Israel was instructed to do in the Old Testament to be acceptable to God, ever destroyed the sin nature.
They did not even know they had a sin nature, they knew they sinned but did not know they had a nature compelling them.
Father Abraham, had great faith to do things for God, but as great as his faith was it could not rid him of the sin nature.
A point should be made about nature; stability is found in a nature, because nature cannot and does not change.
The sin nature is a controller and desires to totally control the individuals mind, Romans 7:17,
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

I have had Christians ask me "do you think God has turned me over to a reprobate mind" my answer is simply "no."
A reprobate mind can only afflict those that have a sin nature.
A reprobate mind is; the sin nature gaining control of the mind.
The question will come up "why do Christians sin" again the answer is simple; because their minds were trained by the nature (sin) and against that nature they warred, even as a non believer.
Very important for the believer to be renewed in mind and at best they will not live under condemnation, because you will never perfect this life.
We strive to be Christlike and allow the mind of christ to freely express itself, but as long as you're in this body you will sin.
The pulls of your body and areas of the mind that remain unrenewed cause the believer to fail.
If you fast and walk by a refrigerator you will see how strong the body pulls can be.
If you desire to quit smoking, drinking or some other body pull, you will see how the mind and body work together.
It is not a spirit thing as some suppose, it is mind given to body, nothing wrong with your spirit you are one with Christ.
Finding out about that and getting your mind renewed will help you live life as your Father intended you to live, which is by your new nature.
We have a choice, before the cross there was no choice, they had to live with a nature they didn't even know existed.
The only people that can be double minded is believers, simply because we have a choice.

 

[GodsGrace]

1. How does our mind become renewed?

2. Why do we have a choice after the resurrection?

 

[Soul man]

1. How does our mind become renewed?

2. Why do we have a choice after the resurrection?

1. The believer needs to start in Pauls epistles until they are indelibly fixed in them. Paul gives us the "in Christ" position for the born again.
Over 150 times the in Christ message can be found written, and is our doctrine Paul says, very weighty for an avid student of the word.
When reading Paul you are reading the mind of Christ.

2. As a non believer the only choice is to live by the sin nature, as a believer we have a new Christ in you nature, we have a choice some have not realized that and continue to live from the memories of the old mind.
I use the word areas of the mind simply because we have areas that have been renewed, example; we have things in our life that we may have struggled with at one time. Now they are no problem at all and the lord moves on to other areas of our mind that needs renewal.

 

[th1b.taylor]

1. The believer needs to start in Pauls epistles until they are indelibly fixed in them. Paul gives us the "in Christ" position for the born again.
Over 150 times the in Christ message can be found written, and is our doctrine Paul says, very weighty for an avid student of the word.
When reading Paul you are reading the mind of Christ.

2. As a non believer the only choice is to live by the sin nature, as a believer we have a new Christ in you nature, we have a choice some have not realized that and continue to live from the memories of the old mind.
I use the word areas of the mind simply because we have areas that have been renewed, example; we have things in our life that we may have struggled with at one time. Now they are no problem at all and the lord moves on to other areas of our mind that needs renewal.

This is readily apparent to me. I do not understand how one can lay down a claim of conversion and then, later, claim they do not struggle in any area of their lives. If it is true, they deserve a full set of crowns because I sinned, a lot, with the girls in the Joints and on Trail Rides and
Satan remembers that!

I go to bed at night and he attacks with those memories that I thought was so sweet and I must command him, in the name of Jesus, to leave me go to sleep. It works but things I did do as a Lost Soul... I still rebuke more often that I will ever be comfortable with. Great lesson, Soul Man.

 

[GodsGrace]

This is readily apparent to me. I do not understand how one can lay down a claim of conversion and then, later, claim they do not struggle in any area of their lives. If it is true, they deserve a full set of crowns because I sinned, a lot, with the girls in the Joints and on Trail Rides and
Satan remembers that!

I go to bed at night and he attacks with those memories that I thought was so sweet and I must command him, in the name of Jesus, to leave me go to sleep. It works but things I did do as a Lost Soul... I still rebuke more often that I will ever be comfortable with. Great lesson, Soul Man.

Bill,
Maybe satan remembers "that"...
But God has forgotten...
Hebrews 10:17

 

[GodsGrace]

1. The believer needs to start in Pauls epistles until they are indelibly fixed in them. Paul gives us the "in Christ" position for the born again.
Over 150 times the in Christ message can be found written, and is our doctrine Paul says, very weighty for an avid student of the word.
When reading Paul you are reading the mind of Christ.

2. As a non believer the only choice is to live by the sin nature, as a believer we have a new Christ in you nature, we have a choice some have not realized that and continue to live from the memories of the old mind.
I use the word areas of the mind simply because we have areas that have been renewed, example; we have things in our life that we may have struggled with at one time. Now they are no problem at all and the lord moves on to other areas of our mind that needs renewal.

Great on 1.
Regarding 2:
Do you believe that we go area after area and eventually will be perfect in THIS life?
Many do think this of Christians. I don't agree, but would like to hear your answer.

Also, it will be good to go through WHY we don't wish to sin as much after conversion.
Exactly what is it that renews our mind?

If you don't, I'll go through this tomorrow, sorry, I can't right now.
It has to do with the love we have for Jesus.

 

[Soul man]

Great on 1.
Regarding 2:
Do you believe that we go area after area and eventually will be perfect in THIS life?
Many do think this of Christians. I don't agree, but would like to hear your answer.

Also, it will be good to go through WHY we don't wish to sin as much after conversion.
Exactly what is it that renews our mind?

If you don't, I'll go through this tomorrow, sorry, I can't right now.
It has to do with the love we have for Jesus.

I use the word "areas" of the mind but what we do know is mind renewal is an ongoing process that will continue until your last breathe.
The world is a schoolhouse, first to bring us to Christ, and then to teach and train sons/daughters to live in the Fathers house.
Perfect in this life is in spirit only, "he that is joined to the lord is one spirit."
We are complete in spirit, Col. 2:10,
Ye are are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

So perfection in soul "no" but being perfected in soul yes.
But never coming to complete perfection in soul.
I personally don't believe it was our Fathers plan to have perfect children in soul. What would keep us seeking and searching the things of our Father and in prayer and fellowship.
Love comes out of being free to choose, He will never control you as your Adamic nature did.
He is your Father He birthed you the moment you believed.
He is a wonderful Father and takes care of His children.

What renews our mind is the word of God, when we read, ask the HolySpirit to help us understand the things He would have us to know, Eph. 3:3,4,9
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Also Ephesians 1:17-18,
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

 

[Soul man]

This is readily apparent to me. I do not understand how one can lay down a claim of conversion and then, later, claim they do not struggle in any area of their lives. If it is true, they deserve a full set of crowns because I sinned, a lot, with the girls in the Joints and on Trail Rides and
Satan remembers that!

I go to bed at night and he attacks with those memories that I thought was so sweet and I must command him, in the name of Jesus, to leave me go to sleep. It works but things I did do as a Lost Soul... I still rebuke more often that I will ever be comfortable with. Great lesson, Soul Man.

Absolutely Taylor, the spooks of the past are not easily shaken off. Our mind retains everything it has ever taken in, not unlike a computer, bad analogy but you can see the likeness.
I think that is where Christians have felt they still have a sin nature because of the old mind syndrome, the residue of the former life if you will, still can haunt the believer.
I believe the renewing of the mind is very crucial to the believers freedom.
I feel as Paul said we can start to "glory" in our afflictions because it has caused us to know Christ, and in our weakness He is made strong.
I'm leery of Christians that boast of their strength, they really haven't suffered affliction as Paul describes.

 

[GodsGrace]

I use the word "areas" of the mind but what we do know is mind renewal is an ongoing process that will continue until your last breathe.
The world is a schoolhouse, first to bring us to Christ, and then to teach and train sons/daughters to live in the Fathers house.
Perfect in this life is in spirit only, "he that is joined to the lord is one spirit."
We are complete in spirit, Col. 2:10,
Ye are are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

So perfection in soul "no" but being perfected in soul yes.
But never coming to complete perfection in soul.
I personally don't believe it was our Fathers plan to have perfect children in soul. What would keep us seeking and searching the things of our Father and in prayer and fellowship.
Love comes out of being free to choose, He will never control you as your Adamic nature did.
He is your Father He birthed you the moment you believed.
He is a wonderful Father and takes care of His children.

What renews our mind is the word of God, when we read, ask the HolySpirit to help us understand the things He would have us to know, Eph. 3:3,4,9
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Also Ephesians 1:17-18,
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

OK, at computer!

I agree with all you've said above.
Our mind is renewed by keeping our mind on Christ, the KIngdom, and all good things.
Philippians 4:8

Romans tells us that our MIND is to be renewed:
Romans 12:2
It is by learning what God would want from us; how to believe, how to behave, how to serve Him...
Romans 12:6

And yes, this is an ongoing process, our sanctification.

I believe you said that we no longer have a sin nature.
Is this correct?

If we still do, It is put under submission to the Holy Spirit (with our permission, He will never force us).

If we no longer have the sin nature, what makes us sin?
(I agree with the first)

 

[Chopper]

I use the word "areas" of the mind but what we do know is mind renewal is an ongoing process that will continue until your last breathe.
The world is a schoolhouse, first to bring us to Christ, and then to teach and train sons/daughters to live in the Fathers house.
Perfect in this life is in spirit only, "he that is joined to the lord is one spirit."
We are complete in spirit, Col. 2:10,
Ye are are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

So perfection in soul "no" but being perfected in soul yes.
But never coming to complete perfection in soul.

This is a good reply to
I personally don't believe it was our Fathers plan to have perfect children in soul. What would keep us seeking and searching the things of our Father and in prayer and fellowship.
Love comes out of being free to choose, He will never control you as your Adamic nature did.
He is your Father He birthed you the moment you believed.
He is a wonderful Father and takes care of His children.

What renews our mind is the word of God, when we read, ask the HolySpirit to help us understand the things He would have us to know, Eph. 3:3,4,9
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Also Ephesians 1:17-18,
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

This is a good reply to wondering's question Soul man....

What renews our mind is the word of God, when we read, ask the HolySpirit to help us understand the things He would have us to know, Eph. 3:3,4,9

So few Believers read/study the Word of Yahshua. Result? They are not "washed by the Word" or "renewed in the mind" When the Rapture/gathering happens, they'll be left behind because they are not serious about their position in Christ. It will take the first half of the tribulation to separate the sheep from the goats.

It does no good to just read the Scriptures. That's like reading a good novel. One must pray first, asking Yahshua (Jesus) to cause you to understand what He wrote. Wash you with His Word, and to renew your mind and thinking to capture His will and intent of making you His Disciple (learner).

 

[Soul man]

OK, at computer!

I agree with all you've said above.
Our mind is renewed by keeping our mind on Christ, the KIngdom, and all good things.
Philippians 4:8

Romans tells us that our MIND is to be renewed:
Romans 12:2
It is by learning what God would want from us; how to believe, how to behave, how to serve Him...
Romans 12:6

And yes, this is an ongoing process, our sanctification.

I believe you said that we no longer have a sin nature.
Is this correct?

If we still do, It is put under submission to the Holy Spirit (with our permission, He will never force us).

If we no longer have the sin nature, what makes us sin?
(I agree with the first)

First let's look at what sin is new to a Christian, James 4:17,
17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

This will establish what sin is for a Christian. Some Christians can do things other Christians can't simply because they do or don't know better.
Really blatant sin is a different story and they will feel the correction of their Father. One thing must be said about correction; there are times when you may seem to be doing everything right and correction still comes.
There are times when you know you have blown it and everything seems fine.
So being right all the time is not really what is at issue with our Father. Our understanding and knowledge is what goes into training.
So all the doctrinal fighting that goes on means very little to our Father.
Mainly because what we believe after salvation means the world to a believer but not so much their Father.
In whom we believe makes us everything the Father ever wanted, children of His very own. That is the cross preached in a nutshell but the fullness at the same time.

So the only place a believer can sin now is from soul, they do that by taking their mind from Christ, give it to body, and that is what is called flesh or sins of the flesh.
I have had people tell me in counsel, they do not want to know Christ in this manner because they become responsible for their actions. As the way it is they can blame their sin nature or their childhood or some other mishap in life.
what is really happening is, they basically love themselves more than they love the Christ in them. So they remain in the schoolhouse until the time appointed by their Father, Gal. 4:1-2
4 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.

Our Father will not make us love Him, He would like for me to choose to reciprocate the love He has for me.
So It becomes the greatest love story ever told. That is all He has wanted from before the foundation of the world, to be loved the way He loves.

 

[Niyoe'es:ah]

-
I have yet to encounter the term "sin nature" in the New Testament. I
suspect somebody coined it as a substitute for the flesh that Paul often
spoke of in his letters.

● Rom 8:8 . .They that are in the flesh cannot please God.

The koiné Greek word for flesh is sarx (sarx); which basically indicates the
meaty parts of either man or beast. The meat of the human body would of
course include the 3-pound lump of flabby organic tissue housed within
humanity's bony little skulls sufficing for a mind; and it's not all that difficult
to tamper with a brain and make its owner quite mindless.

The meaty parts of the human body are the source of a human being's
human nature and it isn't all that difficult to define. Webster's says its (1)
the ways of thinking, feeling, and acting that are common to most people,
and (2) the nature of humans; especially the fundamental dispositions and
traits of humans.

Ironically, when God finished assembling the cosmos with its various forms
of life, matter, and energy; He pronounced it all not just good; but "very"
good. In other words, God was satisfied that the human body came out just
exactly as He designed it to come out; but it didn't stay that way.

When people do something contrary to their better judgment; it's very
common to hear them complain "I don't know what came over me." Well;
the thing that came over them was their own body exerting its fundamental
dispositions and traits; viz: the human body literally has a mind of its own; it
constantly, and perpetually, competes with its host for control of their
thoughts, their speech, and their conduct, and more often than not wins.

When I was a growing boy my dad was always telling me that I was my own
worst enemy. I think that maybe the apostle Paul would have agreed with
my dad because he too was his own worst enemy.

● Rom 7:18 . . For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good
thing

● Rom 7:24 . .What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this
body of death?

/

 

[barelohim]

Very important for the believer to be renewed in mind and at best they will not live under condemnation, because you will never be perfect this life.

Hebrews 9:27 And inasmuch as it is appointed unto men once to die, and after this cometh judgment;
28 so Christ also, having been once offered to bear the sins of many, shall appear a second time, apart from sin, to them that wait for him, unto salvation.
And especially again when ALL Unrighteousness is sin. And we have a remedy to take care of that in 1 John2: 1 My little children, these things write I unto you that ye may not sin. And if any man sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 and he is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the whole world.
1 John 1: 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
When He appears at His coming it will not be in regard to sin,,,,,that was taken care of at the cross. So I differ from the statement Soul man, especially since " Perfect " is merely translated as " meaning Mature, or Maturity,
[*StrongsGreek*]
5046 teleios tel'-i-os from 5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with 3588) completeness:--of full age, man, perfect. see GREEK for 5056 see GREEK for 3588

 

[GodsGrace]

-
I have yet to encounter the term "sin nature" in the New Testament. I
suspect somebody coined it as a substitute for the flesh that Paul often
spoke of in his letters.

● Rom 8:8 . .They that are in the flesh cannot please God.

The koiné Greek word for flesh is sarx (sarx); which basically indicates the
meaty parts of either man or beast. The meat of the human body would of
course include the 3-pound lump of flabby organic tissue housed within
humanity's bony little skulls sufficing for a mind; and it's not all that difficult
to tamper with a brain and make its owner quite mindless.

The meaty parts of the human body are the source of a human being's
human nature and it isn't all that difficult to define. Webster's says its (1)
the ways of thinking, feeling, and acting that are common to most people,
and (2) the nature of humans; especially the fundamental dispositions and
traits of humans.

Ironically, when God finished assembling the cosmos with its various forms
of life, matter, and energy; He pronounced it all not just good; but "very"
good. In other words, God was satisfied that the human body came out just
exactly as He designed it to come out; but it didn't stay that way.

When people do something contrary to their better judgment; it's very
common to hear them complain "I don't know what came over me." Well;
the thing that came over them was their own body exerting its fundamental
dispositions and traits; viz: the human body literally has a mind of its own; it
constantly, and perpetually, competes with its host for control of their
thoughts, their speech, and their conduct, and more often than not wins.

When I was a growing boy my dad was always telling me that I was my own
worst enemy. I think that maybe the apostle Paul would have agreed with
my dad because he too was his own worst enemy.

● Rom 7:18 . . For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good
thing

● Rom 7:24 . .What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this
body of death?

/

See Romans 7:25

NIV
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law,AC)"> but in my sinful naturec]" data-fn="#fen-NIV-28117c">[c] a slave to the law of sin.AD)">

Some versions say Sinful Nature = Sin Nature
Some versions say the flesh, as you've pointed out.
Of course, it means the same.

 

[Soul man]

The meaty parts of the human body are the source of a human being's
human nature and it isn't all that difficult to define. Webster's says its (1)
the ways of thinking, feeling, and acting that are common to most people,
and (2) the nature of humans; especially the fundamental dispositions and
traits of humans.

No such thing as human nature, psychology and science have come up with the term. You we be hard pressed to find a human nature in the scriptures.

 

[Kidron]

A reprobate mind is; the sin nature gaining control of the mind.
The question will come up "why do Christians sin" again

-
I appreciate your take on your topic.
May i offer you this...
The "adamic nature" didnt go away when you became born again.
What happened to you, is that you became a duel nature, within one body.
You are the born again, and you are also the adamic within, that is still in operation.
Paul says you are to "reckon yourself dead"....but that does not mean that your adamic nature has ceased, as it absolutely has not.
As a matter of fact, born again believers have become sin sensitive, as their conscience has been enlightened by the new birth.
This is the main thing that separates a believer from a non-believer.
Its an enlightenment about sin, and how we as believers become so sensitive to sinning when we are born again, whereas an unbeliever does not have this aspect within, as they dont have the holy seed in them that is causing this and creating this, as believers have it.
They don't have a duel nature.
We do.

Paul speaks about "dying daily", and that "it is no longer Him who lives, but Christ who lives in him".
Here, he is not teaching that the adamic part of him is deleted by the new birth, but rather over years of striving to submit to total submission to the will of God and the Lordship of Jesus, he has arrived at a definitive place in his walk, where he describes it as "i have finished my course", and he further describes that everything as compared to Christ and his total submissive walk with God, is to him...."dung".
In all aspects Paul became "in the world, but not of the world".
The " finished course" that Paul is speaking about, is the process where God transforms us into the "image of Christ" and this is proactive and progressive, over time.
This is "God the master, working the clay", "pruning the vine", and yes, "Chastening every son He has adopted and redeemed".
You do not become the "fullness of the stature of Christ" the moment you are redeemed, you only become the "righteousness of God, in Christ".
You are given the Righteousness of God and the Mind of Christ as your "new birth" conscience and enlightenment.
This is the spiritual "quickening" that occurs....
This is to be "born again".
This begins the eternal process of being "conformed into the image of Christ", then continues lifelong = ongoing.
It'll stop when you die, or you are raptured, as "corruption will put on incorruption".. 1 Corin 15:53.
But Till then, it will continue down here.
And, while we like to think that we are doing it, its actually not the case.
The case is..."He (God) who BEGAN a good work in you (Salvation) will be faithful to COMPLETE IT"..
That is not you, but it is you that is in the process
You are the clay.
You are NOT the hands that shape it.

So this Adamic vs Reborn "man" struggle that is in every believer, is why Paul speaks earlier in his Christianity regarding the "war" which fights within him.
Where he would do right, but does not, ect.
This is that adamic nature vs the new birth nature that "wars" within all believers.
And if you are a Christian, then this is your experience.
If you are not engaged in this inner struggle, then you are backslidden.
The devil never takes a day off, and the world system never takes a day off, and your adamic nature will never take a day off.
So, you are in the struggle, or you are like a JET....= as soon as you stop going forward, you fall.

Colossians 2:11.. explains, that as a born again Christian you have within you a spiritual circumcision, whereby, your new birth is your spirit man being "born again", yet, still living in a body that has an adamic nature.
Thats 2 natures, in one Body.....
If you only had one Nature, as you are describing Soul man, then there would be no need to renew the "mind".
If you only had one Nature, as you are describing, subsequent to the new birth, then you would only be dealing with the born again spiritual part of you, and this part would not need any attention, as its God breathed and God regenerated.
So, what is daily happening to a Believer, is that they are 2 natures in one body.......struggling.
They are absolutely a new creation, as well as the other, which is the old adamic nature ... and this part does not cease to exist @new-birth, it does not relinquish control easily, but rather it fights for control, and THAT is the experience of the "Christian" struggle in a believer's life whereby you are trying to overcome your very self, ..... which is that other part of you, as well as the world, and the devil.

 

[for_his_glory]

Restoration comes by handling something with a slow process of perfection. Some people like to restore old furniture to make it look new again. They peal off all the old layers until they get to the bare frame. Step by step they build upon that frame until the whole of perfection and renewal is complete and they have a new creation of something that was old.

This is what Christ does with us as he peals away all the old layers of our past and renews our inner man by His Spirit as he perfects us into a new creation that has been made renewed by Gods righteousness and perfection as we surrender all that is in us and allow Gods Spirit to change whatever needs changing in us. This process is called Gods salvation of saving someone that others might deem unworthy, but God says all are worthy of his grace if they would just come boldly to his throne of grace and surrender all to him.

John 3:3-21 except a man be born again of water and Spirit he cannot enter into the

Kingdom of God. Vs.6 that which is born of the Flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Flesh cannot perceive the things of the Spirit and is enmity against God, Romans 8:6, 7.

We are all born with a sin nature because of sin being introduced into the world through Satan’s deceit when he told Eve to eat of the forbidden tree in Genesis 3:1-7. Our flesh will always sin because that is its nature and God cannot see our flesh because of our sins nor can he hear the prayers of a sinner, John 9:31.

Sin separates us from God because God is a spirit and can only recognize his own children by what spirit is living in their hearts. We have to renew, rebirth - born again, Gods Spirit within us in order to be called a child of God and see the kingdom of heaven. We now put off the old man (flesh) and put on the new man (Spirit), Colossians 3:1-17. We are renewed by the word of God and through the Holy Spirit teaching us of all things, John 14:26.