Slavery

[Farquad_36]

Hey everybody...I don't keep up with this forum very well... in fact, I don't come to this site very often... : But, see, theres nobody at the other sites I go to, so...
Just kidding! : I'm just looking to get some more insight and opinions on this subject.
Slavery is often thought of as an unspeakable evil. Through my studies of Scripture so far, I have discovered that people get this idea not from Scripture, but from the Constitution, which, for some reason, are often put together as one. :-? While slavery may be socially and legally unacceptable, I see no reason biblically why slavery is unnaceptable. In fact, from what I have found, the Bible almost promotes slavery.
Since people usaually get mad when I don't put up the verses I'm talking about, ( :-? ) I've posted all I've found below.

Leviticus 22:11
Leviticus 25:39-55
Ephesians 6:5-9
1 Timothy 6:1-2

I would write these out for everyone, but they are extremly long, and would require much writing on my part, so before you respond, please read these passages if you have not already.
*Note; I do not find racism or abusing slaves morally right. I believe slaves are to be treated justly and kindly, as the Scritpures tell us to. And racism has nothing remotely to do with slavery; racism is a form of hate and favoratism, which are both sins.

 

[Chupacabra]

I thank you for having the honestly to view scipture objectively and discovering the undeniable fact that the Christian god promotes slavery. You claim that slave masters should be "just and kind", but slavery in itself is a system in which one person must be the property of another. Doesn't this cheapen life? Wouldn't you say that this means that legal rights are nonexistent if man can somehow be degraded to property? Exodus 21 says that I man may beat his slave so long as the slave survives the beating for one or two days. This means that slave masters have a Biblical right to beat a slave to a bloody pulp so long as they don't die before forty-eight hours are up. The justification for this is that slaves are property. So much for your assumption that slaves are to be treated in a kind manner. Leviticus 27:3 shows that there can be a specific monetary value on life-- And thy estimation shall be of the male from twenty years old even unto sixty years old, even thy estimation shall be fifty shekels of silver, after the shekel of the sanctuary. You heard right, we males under sixty are worth a mere fifty shekels of silver. I don't know what that is in today's terms, but I don't think a life can really be put in terms of dollars and sense. Its quite demeaning to humanity, if you ask me. By the way, I hope you notice that females are worth far less. As for Christian slaves under Christian masters, the book of Timothy says that the slave has even less reason to complain and should work even harder to please his fascist overlord.

 

[Farquad_36]

Uh, I think you are talking about verses 20 and 21. Those verses don't say that a man can beat a slave as long as he doesn't die in two days; it says that a man can beat a slave as long as he is able to get up again in two days.
In verses 26 and 27, a man is to free a slave if he destroys a servants eye or knocks out a tooth. In verses 7-11, a woman servant cannot be sold to another person besides the original person she was sold to; there are also regulations for marriage, and if these things are not provided for the female slave, she is to go free without redeeming herself.
I don't think God ever intended for slaves to be abused, but especially since we are under Christ's law, we are to show love to all our brothers. Take a look at Ephesians 6:9 ;

"And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that He who is both their master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him." -Ephesians 6:9 NIV

Besides that, I can't imagine Christ beating a slave to a pulp. That's just not a loving thing to do, and if you were to do that, your heart probably isn't right...
I never said that the abuse of slaves is acceptable. That was one of the major reasons slavery went wrong in America.

 

[evanman]

People always judge God from humanistic values.

Slavery was sanctioned by god in the Law.

Apostle Paul taught that christians who were slaves should obey their masters, and that christians who owned slaves should not mistreat them.

I would have no qualms about buying a slave if it meant a better life for that person. Eventually that person could be educated and receive training so that they could be emancipated.

Many christians buy children abroad so that they can be delivered out of sexual slavery.

Under the law slave owners were to emancipate their slaves, however a slave could choose to remain a slave if they wanted to.

Slaves were imancipated in USA after the civil war--sadly most of them were ill prepared for the transition. So now the were free but totally destitute. Where's the compassion in that?

 

[Chupacabra]

People always judge God from humanistic values.

If your god's law is written in our hearts as the Bible says, then this is a good way to judge whether something is right or wrong.

Apostle Paul taught that christians who were slaves should obey their masters, and that christians who owned slaves should not mistreat them.

I believe the passage says "not threaten them." I suppose the best interpretation of this is to let the slave know that they will be provided for (however meagerly) and will not be killed (but maybe just severely beaten).

I would have no qualms about buying a slave if it meant a better life for that person. Eventually that person could be educated and receive training so that they could be emancipated.

So the only way to financially help someone is to own them?! That's just sick. A slave is property and is an involuntary servant. Do you find it possible to respect one you view as mere property?

Under the law slave owners were to emancipate their slaves, however a slave could choose to remain a slave if they wanted to.

Slave owners had to emancipate certain slaves at certain times. They could still "own" scores of people, beat them, and use them as a cheap source of labor to grow fat off of.

Slaves were imancipated in USA after the civil war--sadly most of them were ill prepared for the transition. So now the were free but totally destitute. Where's the compassion in that?

Reconstruction was indeed somewhat of a failure because slaves were just let go without any money and little possesions. The answer was not to let the brutal and inhumane practice of slavery to continue, however. Slaves did not work voluntarily under a contract, so they didn't agree to work for nothing. Because of this, the plantation owners should have been forced to pay slaves whatever they could in terms of both money, property, and land. This system would have been the most fair in my opinion.

 

[50]

i have seen slavery in other parts of the world and if you had seen what i have seen you would have not posted this post

slavery is one of the bad things in this world that no one should have to under go doing or seeing


you have no idea how bad it can be

 

[Farquad_36]

50; so you've seen slavery go wrong. That's got to be a terrible thing to see and a tragedy, but what I'm saying is, if slavery is carried out correctly, it doesn't have to be that way. It's odd people only publicize the miserable, mistreated slaves.
Chupacabra; that's Ephesians 6:5-9. If you look at 1 Timothy 6:1-2, Pauls also says that slave masters are to respect their slaves because they are brothers.

 

[Free]

Farquad,

Your position is in disagreement with the early Christians and they got their beliefs from Scripture. The Bible lays out guidelines for those in slavery, but that does not mean it condones slavery. God created man to be free, not to be the property of someone else.

 

[Gary]

I have found this site interesting.....

http://www.gospelcom.net/rbc/ds/q1109/

.

 

[evanman]

People always judge God from humanistic values.

If your god's law is written in our hearts as the Bible says, then this is a good way to judge whether something is right or wrong.

[quote:f6eec]Apostle Paul taught that christians who were slaves should obey their masters, and that christians who owned slaves should not mistreat them.

I believe the passage says "not threaten them." I suppose the best interpretation of this is to let the slave know that they will be provided for (however meagerly) and will not be killed (but maybe just severely beaten).

I would have no qualms about buying a slave if it meant a better life for that person. Eventually that person could be educated and receive training so that they could be emancipated.

So the only way to financially help someone is to own them?! That's just sick. A slave is property and is an involuntary servant. Do you find it possible to respect one you view as mere property?

Under the law slave owners were to emancipate their slaves, however a slave could choose to remain a slave if they wanted to.

Slave owners had to emancipate certain slaves at certain times. They could still "own" scores of people, beat them, and use them as a cheap source of labor to grow fat off of.

Slaves were imancipated in USA after the civil war--sadly most of them were ill prepared for the transition. So now the were free but totally destitute. Where's the compassion in that?

Reconstruction was indeed somewhat of a failure because slaves were just let go without any money and little possesions. The answer was not to let the brutal and inhumane practice of slavery to continue, however. Slaves did not work voluntarily under a contract, so they didn't agree to work for nothing. Because of this, the plantation owners should have been forced to pay slaves whatever they could in terms of both money, property, and land. This system would have been the most fair in my opinion.[/quote:f6eec]

You have completely missed the point. I would have no qualms about buying a slave if I could, in turn, help prepare for life as a free man.

I am not referring to simply owning slaves. Some people have lttle or no choice in the matter of being slaves. I believe that it is an act of compassion to buy someone out of the hands of an abusive person.

There are many forms of slavery, not just economic slavery. In fact ALL of us are someone's slave:-

Ro 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

In the context of this scripture "Servant2 means "slave".

 

[ThinkerMan]

You have completely missed the point. I would have no qualms about buying a slave if I could, in turn, help prepare for life as a free man.

Why not just buy him and set him free immediately?

 

[evanman]

You have completely missed the point. I would have no qualms about buying a slave if I could, in turn, help prepare for life as a free man.

Why not just buy him and set him free immediately?

Because, as I pointed out before, it may not be the most compassionate and merciful thing to do to set them free straight away.

 

[Farquad_36]

Farquad,

Your position is in disagreement with the early Christians and they got their beliefs from Scripture. The Bible lays out guidelines for those in slavery, but that does not mean it condones slavery. God created man to be free, not to be the property of someone else.

Hmm...so God gave the Israelites, whom He called to be the most holy people upon the Earth, guidelines for sin? Somehow, that doesn't add up. If God didn't want men to be in slavery, He would have said, "Thou shalt not take another man for a slave." But can you find a verse that says that? I'd like to see it.
God also created man to be fre of misery and pain and suffering, but are we? I'm not saying to make everyone miserable...but because man was made for something doesn't mean it is always going to, or even always should be, that way.

 

[Gary]

"...Although Jesus and His apostles did not publicly attack slavery or demand that converted slaveowners set their slaves free, their example and teaching brought about its eventual abolition. Jesus, by living as one with no lodging (Lk. 9:58), identified with the poorest of the poor. By giving special attention to those who were despised in society, He made it clear that every human being is valuable to God. He made the slaves and downtrodden realize that in the eyes of God they were made in His image just as truly as the rich and honored.

"The apostles also undermined the institution of slavery without directly attacking it. They welcomed slaves into the church. They led converted slaveowners to see their converted slaves in a new light, as spiritual equals, as brothers and sisters in Christ. All learned to revel in the truth of Galatians 3:26-28.

"You are all the sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

http://www.gospelcom.net/rbc/ds/q1109/point5.html

.

 

[goliwog man]

I'm a slave for jesus He bought me from satan and set me free.

 

[goliwog man]

I'm a slave for jesus He bought me from satan and set me free.

 

[B]

It is incredible that some people here are defending slavery.
Just one of the many reasons that I cannot accept the God of the bible.
It's just not right, people!

 

[goliwog man]

God doesnt want slavery....

lev 25v 39 And if thy brother that dwelleth by thee be waxen poor, and be sold unto thee thou shall not compel him to sreve as a bond servant,

Also solomon the wisest of kings had no slaves... 1 kings 9v22 But of the children of israel did solomon make no bondmen....

 

[Chupacabra]

But of the children of israel did solomon make no bondmen.... (emphasis added)

No, Solomon made no slaves of his god-chosen master race. It never says he had no slaves. Also, if you consider Solomon's lack of slaves of one race as an example of how we should conduct ourselves, why shouldn't men have scores of wives and concubines? God didn't rebuke that in any way except for saying he married strange (foreign) wives. So if we marry within our own race, is polygamy alright? Interestingly, this verse in many ways represents the philosophy that guided the so-called "new slavery" which enslaved Africans based on race, compared to milder (albeit still cruel) forms of non-racial slavery that preceded it. This Biblical passage essentially tells us that its alright to force someone into slavery so long as this person is of a different race that God doesn't like as much.

lev 25v 39 And if thy brother that dwelleth by thee be waxen poor, and be sold unto thee thou shall not compel him to sreve as a bond servant,

Once more, this forbids slavery under certain conditions. It's illegal to enslave your brother if he is poor. If your brother isn't "waxen poor", you may enslave him. This in no way forbids slavery of non-family members, whether rich or poor.

 

[B]

Leviticus 25:45-46 "Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, . . . and they shall be your possession . . . they shall be your bondmen forever."
Genesis 9:25 "And he [Noah] said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren."
Exodus 21:2,7 "If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. . . . And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the manservants do."
Joel 3:8 "And I will sell your sons and your daughters into the hand of the children of Judah, and they shall sell them to the Sabeans, to a people far off: for the Lord hath spoken it."
Luke 12:47,48 [Jesus speaking] "And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes."
Colossians 3:22 "Servants, obey in all things your masters."