T
thessalonian
Guest
Are we just snow covered dung when we become Christians? I was told in another thread that Catholicism teaches a salvation of faith + works. This of course is evil in the eyes of the poster are just filthy rages. He of course cannot categorize works in to our own works based on our own will and works based on doing the will of God. He insults the latter.
Matt.7
[21] "Not every one who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Now let's look back to Isaiha:
[10] Hear the word of the LORD,
you rulers of Sodom!
Give ear to the teaching of our God,
you people of Gomor'rah!
[11] "What to me is the multitude of your sacrifices?
says the LORD;
I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams
and the fat of fed beasts;
I do not delight in the blood of bulls,
or of lambs, or of he-goats.
[12] "When you come to appear before me,
who requires of you
this trampling of my courts?
[13] Bring no more vain offerings;
incense is an abomination to me.
New moon and sabbath and the calling of assemblies --
I cannot endure iniquity and solemn assembly.
[14] Your new moons and your appointed feasts
my soul hates;
they have become a burden to me,
I am weary of bearing them.
[15] When you spread forth your hands,
I will hide my eyes from you;
even though you make many prayers,
I will not listen;
your hands are full of blood.
[16] Wash yourselves; make yourselves clean;
remove the evil of your doings
from before my eyes;
cease to do evil,
[17] learn to do good;
seek justice,
correct oppression;
defend the fatherless,
plead for the widow.
[18] "Come now, let us reason together,
says the LORD:
though your sins are like scarlet,
they shall be as white as snow;
though they are red like crimson,
they shall become like wool.
[19] If you are willing and obedient,
you shall eat the good of the land;
[20] But if you refuse and rebel,
you shall be devoured by the sword;
for the mouth of the LORD has spoken."
[21] How the faithful city
has become a harlot,
she that was full of justice!
Righteousness lodged in her,
but now murderers.
[22] Your silver has become dross,
your wine mixed with water.
[23] Your princes are rebels
and companions of thieves.
Every one loves a bribe
and runs after gifts.
They do not defend the fatherless,
and the widow's cause does not come to them.
[24] Therefore the Lord says,
the LORD of hosts,
the Mighty One of Israel:
"Ah, I will vent my wrath on my enemies,
and avenge myself on my foes.
[25] I will turn my hand against you
and will smelt away your dross as with lye
and remove all your alloy.
I know you like one line proof texts but I think the whole thing here is instructive. Is it no longer God's will to have the widow and the orphan cared for. Is this no longer the will of the Father, but to just have snow covered poop enter the kingdom of heaven? Are you a dispensationalist such that God's word in the Old Testament can be sliced and diced and piched and choosen from so that what cuts to the heart of what he desires for mankind is no longer valid? Seems that way to me. But the New Testament speaks of these things as well:
Jas.1
[27] Religion that is pure and undefiled before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.
Heb.10
[36] For you have need of endurance, so that you may do the will of God and receive what is promised.
No I think God still desires for us to do his will and that will is to care for the widow and the orphan. Oh, but I've heard many Protestants say, those passages in hebrews and james aren't for us. They were to the Jews. Bull. You will slice and dice the scritpures so that you can do away with God's plan. So that you can have your Godfare, I'm already there and don't have to do nothin plan of salvation. Tell it to your welfare rep down at the local county building. You ignore the sheep and the goats. One of you told me, that's for the time of the tribulation. Not today. You should be embarrassed at the undermining of the very words of Christ our Savior. It is he who will give us the grace to do the thirty, sixty, or 100 fold. We can do nothing on our own but in him we can do all things.
Eph 3
[20]
Now to him who by the power at work within us is able to do far more abundantly than all that we ask or think,
[21] to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus to all generations, for ever and ever. Amen.
God's power working in us, not just some declaration that God will no longer smell the stench of our sins, that is what has the power to save. When we do good we no longer do evil.
Romans
[4] Or do you presume upon the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience? Do you not know that God's kindness is meant to lead you to repentance?
[5] But by your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be revealed.
[6] For he will render to every man according to his works:
[7] to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life;
[8] but for those who are factious and do not obey the truth, but obey wickedness, there will be wrath and fury.
Wrath and fury, oh I suppose you will say that is just loss of reward. Go ahead, walk in your Gospel of snow covered poop and then go to the pearly gates and say Lord, Lord, or you can open yourself up to the power of God in your lives, work as if it all depended on you and pray as if it all depended on him and then stand before him and say, Lord I am humbled by your power that worked in my life and brought me through the trials and tribulations you sent for me to endure. (Heb 12). You send trials that I might overcome my wickedeness Lord, thank you. I praise your holy name for the power of your grace working in me to help bring others to salvation. For that was your will also, that "all men might be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth". Some say, oh God doesn't need us. Regardless, that is the way he chooses to bring the salvation of others about. But Godfare tells us we don't really have to be about his business.
So yes, Catholicism is about faith and works, but it is about God working in us, doing far more than we could do on our own, producing thirty, sixty or 100 fold. I could post dozens more verses that support this but I am afraid for those used to one verse proof texts the truth might cause their head to explode.
Okay, I'll get off my soapbox. Think I'll make a thread out of this. Go ahead AV and walk up to the pearly gates saying "lord, lord, I did nothing just like the Bible told me". He will say, which Bible?
Blessings
Matt.7
[21] "Not every one who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Now let's look back to Isaiha:
[10] Hear the word of the LORD,
you rulers of Sodom!
Give ear to the teaching of our God,
you people of Gomor'rah!
[11] "What to me is the multitude of your sacrifices?
says the LORD;
I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams
and the fat of fed beasts;
I do not delight in the blood of bulls,
or of lambs, or of he-goats.
[12] "When you come to appear before me,
who requires of you
this trampling of my courts?
[13] Bring no more vain offerings;
incense is an abomination to me.
New moon and sabbath and the calling of assemblies --
I cannot endure iniquity and solemn assembly.
[14] Your new moons and your appointed feasts
my soul hates;
they have become a burden to me,
I am weary of bearing them.
[15] When you spread forth your hands,
I will hide my eyes from you;
even though you make many prayers,
I will not listen;
your hands are full of blood.
[16] Wash yourselves; make yourselves clean;
remove the evil of your doings
from before my eyes;
cease to do evil,
[17] learn to do good;
seek justice,
correct oppression;
defend the fatherless,
plead for the widow.
[18] "Come now, let us reason together,
says the LORD:
though your sins are like scarlet,
they shall be as white as snow;
though they are red like crimson,
they shall become like wool.
[19] If you are willing and obedient,
you shall eat the good of the land;
[20] But if you refuse and rebel,
you shall be devoured by the sword;
for the mouth of the LORD has spoken."
[21] How the faithful city
has become a harlot,
she that was full of justice!
Righteousness lodged in her,
but now murderers.
[22] Your silver has become dross,
your wine mixed with water.
[23] Your princes are rebels
and companions of thieves.
Every one loves a bribe
and runs after gifts.
They do not defend the fatherless,
and the widow's cause does not come to them.
[24] Therefore the Lord says,
the LORD of hosts,
the Mighty One of Israel:
"Ah, I will vent my wrath on my enemies,
and avenge myself on my foes.
[25] I will turn my hand against you
and will smelt away your dross as with lye
and remove all your alloy.
I know you like one line proof texts but I think the whole thing here is instructive. Is it no longer God's will to have the widow and the orphan cared for. Is this no longer the will of the Father, but to just have snow covered poop enter the kingdom of heaven? Are you a dispensationalist such that God's word in the Old Testament can be sliced and diced and piched and choosen from so that what cuts to the heart of what he desires for mankind is no longer valid? Seems that way to me. But the New Testament speaks of these things as well:
Jas.1
[27] Religion that is pure and undefiled before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.
Heb.10
[36] For you have need of endurance, so that you may do the will of God and receive what is promised.
No I think God still desires for us to do his will and that will is to care for the widow and the orphan. Oh, but I've heard many Protestants say, those passages in hebrews and james aren't for us. They were to the Jews. Bull. You will slice and dice the scritpures so that you can do away with God's plan. So that you can have your Godfare, I'm already there and don't have to do nothin plan of salvation. Tell it to your welfare rep down at the local county building. You ignore the sheep and the goats. One of you told me, that's for the time of the tribulation. Not today. You should be embarrassed at the undermining of the very words of Christ our Savior. It is he who will give us the grace to do the thirty, sixty, or 100 fold. We can do nothing on our own but in him we can do all things.
Eph 3
[20]
Now to him who by the power at work within us is able to do far more abundantly than all that we ask or think,
[21] to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus to all generations, for ever and ever. Amen.
God's power working in us, not just some declaration that God will no longer smell the stench of our sins, that is what has the power to save. When we do good we no longer do evil.
Romans
[4] Or do you presume upon the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience? Do you not know that God's kindness is meant to lead you to repentance?
[5] But by your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be revealed.
[6] For he will render to every man according to his works:
[7] to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life;
[8] but for those who are factious and do not obey the truth, but obey wickedness, there will be wrath and fury.
Wrath and fury, oh I suppose you will say that is just loss of reward. Go ahead, walk in your Gospel of snow covered poop and then go to the pearly gates and say Lord, Lord, or you can open yourself up to the power of God in your lives, work as if it all depended on you and pray as if it all depended on him and then stand before him and say, Lord I am humbled by your power that worked in my life and brought me through the trials and tribulations you sent for me to endure. (Heb 12). You send trials that I might overcome my wickedeness Lord, thank you. I praise your holy name for the power of your grace working in me to help bring others to salvation. For that was your will also, that "all men might be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth". Some say, oh God doesn't need us. Regardless, that is the way he chooses to bring the salvation of others about. But Godfare tells us we don't really have to be about his business.
So yes, Catholicism is about faith and works, but it is about God working in us, doing far more than we could do on our own, producing thirty, sixty or 100 fold. I could post dozens more verses that support this but I am afraid for those used to one verse proof texts the truth might cause their head to explode.
Okay, I'll get off my soapbox. Think I'll make a thread out of this. Go ahead AV and walk up to the pearly gates saying "lord, lord, I did nothing just like the Bible told me". He will say, which Bible?
Blessings
