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Bible Study Some worrying inconsistencies....

Rajesh Sahu

Rajesh Sahu

2024 Supporter
Blessings to all from Father God, the Lord Jesus Christ, and His amazing Holy Spirit be upon you, especially in these trying times.
Past two years I have been deeply studying Paul and his ministry. I am fascinated by this man. And all that he shared and taught. However, as I was conducting my study, I found some anomalies/inconsistencies --- in what Jesus and Father God say and end up doing :
1) Paul, as well know, was Saul the Pharisee ( Acts 23:6). Now the Pharisees were the only group of people who Jesus, the Messiah of mankind, had cursed, with no less than seven woes Matthew 23: 13-39. So Paul was carrying those seven curses of Christ before he became an apostle.
2) Paul brutally persecuted the fledgling Church by his own admissions (Galatians 1:13–14) of our Lord Jesus Christ soon after He was glorified and ascended heaven
3) Paul also makes a confession in Acts 26:11 that he made the new believers blaspheme. Here are his words "I punished them often in every synagogue and compelled them to blaspheme; and being exceedingly enraged against them, I persecuted them even to foreign cities.
Now here is the problem for me: Jesus says in Matthew 12:30-32: "Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. And so I tell you, any sin and blasphemy can be forgiven. And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven."
After sounding that ominous warning to us Christians, Jesus ends up contradicting Himself and appoints a blasphemer of the Holy Spirit, Paul as His apostle, as the biggest mouthpiece for our Lord and Christian faith --- having written 13 books in the NT.
Why then did Jesus then say in the first place that anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven. This is something I absolutely fail to understand. Can anyone shed some light on this, please?
4) Jesus warns the Church (us) in Matthew 16:6 "Beware of the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees. And then goes on to appoint a Pharisee (Saul) as His apostle. Why did he then warn us to beware of the yeast of the Pharisees, if he had intended to appoint a pharisee to be His largest mouthpiece? this is very very strange and disturbing
5) As if the above-cited verses are not puzzling enough, let us see what Father God says, and later does. In 1Corinthians 3:17 Paul says "If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy that person; for God's temple is sacred, and you together are that temple."
Now Paul by his own admission says he had partaken in the murder of the Spirit-Filled Godly man--- and a hero of Christian faith-- Stephen (in Acts 22: 20). So if Paul was a party in destroying the temple of the Holy Spirit ( Stephen's body) how come paul instead of being destroyed by God, was honored with apostleship? This is most inconsistent with the character of both Father and Son who were known for fulfilling every word they spoke.
So here is the summary, Paul ( or saul the Pharisee) was carrying 7 curses of Lord Jesus Himself, then proceeds to compel young Church believers to blaspheme, and then partakes in the murder of Stephen, destroying the temple of his Holy Spirit ends up as the biggest teacher of Christian faith. ( Let me assure you, friends, more Paul is taught than the messiah Himself in the Churches). And Jesus obviously knew Paul ( or Pharisee saul) would become the biggest teacher of Chrsiatain faith after Him, and yet why did the Lord warn us with"Beware of the Yeast of the Pharisees"
Look forward to some edifying comments which may help lessen/ remove my bewilderment. /\
https://biblehub.com/acts/22-20.htm






https://biblehub.com/acts/23-6.htm
 
Rajesh Sahu said:
Now here is the problem for me: Jesus says in Matthew 12:30-32: "Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. And so I tell you, any sin and blasphemy can be forgiven. And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven."
After sounding that ominous warning to us Christians, Jesus ends up contradicting Himself and appoints a blasphemer of the Holy Spirit, Paul as His apostle, as the biggest mouthpiece for our Lord and Christian faith --- having written 13 books in the NT.
Why then did Jesus then say in the first place that anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven. This is something I absolutely fail to understand. Can anyone shed some light on this, please?
Click to expand...
2nd corinthians 5:17 a new creation.. some may not agree with me. including you which is ok.. but in all honestly i don't know your life style before Christ. but we have all blasphemed in some way or the other at some point or time..
maybe not like paul but never the less HE was a chosen vessel apostle called BY Christ him self. in paul's writings. it seems he said he done a lot things out of ignorance . sin makes us ignorant we do and say dumb things.
but imo and my study blaspheme / the unforgivable sin is rejecting Christ and never being saved . when we get saved no matter what we have done we are justified by grace by faith and the Blood. justified mans declared righteous /not guilty/ just as if we had never sinned !!!! who God calls he qualifies !!! i am by far a good writer my english stinks .
but i get my point across if we are A NEW CREATION all things become new old things passed away . then it's settled our sins/past .cast in the sea of forgetfulness,

we have a hard time understanding this . i know preachers who growed marijuana ( i have to } sold it some did heavy drugs fowl mouthed used God's Name In vain .{ me also ) but yet he saved me forgave me ...does this help?
 
I appreciate your answer, Jerry . And has excellent reasoning in it. We all have sinned. But there is a difference here. Paul "compelled" new believers to blaspheme. It was an intentional attack on God and His spirit. When Jesus sais what he said, He knew we were sinners. Yet He chose to say when we blaspheme the Holy Spirit ( specifically), He will not spare us on the last day. Sinning is one thing. Intentionally attacking God, especially His Spirit, is altogether a different level of sin. It's like stealing a one-cent pencil from a friend, versus committing murder. Both are crimes. One cannot be forgiven. That's what Jesus was saying. When you intentionally attack the Spirit one cannot be saved. I take Jesus' words at face value. If He said that, He meant it. I trust them completely. They ( the words) were spoken with authority and they were final ( Mark 1:22). Paul could not have been saved is the point I'm making Jerry. It's one thing to Blasheme the Spirit (it's condemnable by itself). But to make a whole host of other helpless, poor, persecuted people to blaspheme the Holy Spirit-- just because they believed in Christ--- could never have been forgiven. UNLESS Jesus chooses to go back on his words ( which is gain exceedingly doubtful). Messiah IS the word. We humans make mistake. Jesus didn't. He was/is God. Relying on Christ's words sir. Not mine. If you see I'm either quoting Christ's words or Father God's in my question. They are the highest one can reference. Everybody else is below them and whatever Christ or God (who are one in essence) said/spoke will always supersede what others said. It's like Supreme court versus a local village court. Again from the body of my question--- Why did Jesus choose to issue a warning "Beware of the yeast of the Pharisees"
when He was preparing to appoint one of their kin (a pharisee) to become His mouthpieces? And why would Christ put a multitude (Seven in all) of curses on Paul and his people? If you study the curses of the messiah in Matthew 23: 13-39, it was again impossible for paul to be saved. Unless the messiah regretted cursing the Pharisees. Which again seems impossible, knowing Jesus is God. He didn't commit one sin nor did He make one mistake in His ministry. Nothing. everything was done and spoken with extreme authority and understanding--- always keeping the will of the Father before His.
Submitted this reply with profound respect sir /\
 
Rajesh Sahu said:
I appreciate your answer, Jerry . And has excellent reasoning in it. We all have sinned. But there is a difference here.
Click to expand...
no sin is sin if you cant take 2 cor 5:17 for hat it says along with justification and redemption. then you are rejecting the bible iam sorry to be this way but its the truth. a apostle is one ho is called paul as called directly by Christ . stop and think about..
 
jerry63935 said:
no sin is sin if you cant take 2 cor 5:17 for hat it says along with justification and redemption. then you are rejecting the bible iam sorry to be this way but its the truth. a apostle is one ho is called paul as called directly by Christ . stop and think about..
Click to expand...
My question still goes unanswered....
 
Rajesh Sahu said:
Blessings to all from Father God, the Lord Jesus Christ, and His amazing Holy Spirit be upon you, especially in these trying times.
Past two years I have been deeply studying Paul and his ministry. I am fascinated by this man. And all that he shared and taught. However, as I was conducting my study, I found some anomalies/inconsistencies --- in what Jesus and Father God say and end up doing :
1) Paul, as well know, was Saul the Pharisee ( Acts 23:6). Now the Pharisees were the only group of people who Jesus, the Messiah of mankind, had cursed, with no less than seven woes Matthew 23: 13-39. So Paul was carrying those seven curses of Christ before he became an apostle.
2) Paul brutally persecuted the fledgling Church by his own admissions (Galatians 1:13–14) of our Lord Jesus Christ soon after He was glorified and ascended heaven
3) Paul also makes a confession in Acts 26:11 that he made the new believers blaspheme. Here are his words "I punished them often in every synagogue and compelled them to blaspheme; and being exceedingly enraged against them, I persecuted them even to foreign cities.
Now here is the problem for me: Jesus says in Matthew 12:30-32: "Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. And so I tell you, any sin and blasphemy can be forgiven. And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven."
After sounding that ominous warning to us Christians, Jesus ends up contradicting Himself and appoints a blasphemer of the Holy Spirit, Paul as His apostle, as the biggest mouthpiece for our Lord and Christian faith --- having written 13 books in the NT.
Why then did Jesus then say in the first place that anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven. This is something I absolutely fail to understand. Can anyone shed some light on this, please?
4) Jesus warns the Church (us) in Matthew 16:6 "Beware of the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees. And then goes on to appoint a Pharisee (Saul) as His apostle. Why did he then warn us to beware of the yeast of the Pharisees, if he had intended to appoint a pharisee to be His largest mouthpiece? this is very very strange and disturbing
5) As if the above-cited verses are not puzzling enough, let us see what Father God says, and later does. In 1Corinthians 3:17 Paul says "If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy that person; for God's temple is sacred, and you together are that temple."
Now Paul by his own admission says he had partaken in the murder of the Spirit-Filled Godly man--- and a hero of Christian faith-- Stephen (in Acts 22: 20). So if Paul was a party in destroying the temple of the Holy Spirit ( Stephen's body) how come paul instead of being destroyed by God, was honored with apostleship? This is most inconsistent with the character of both Father and Son who were known for fulfilling every word they spoke.
So here is the summary, Paul ( or saul the Pharisee) was carrying 7 curses of Lord Jesus Himself, then proceeds to compel young Church believers to blaspheme, and then partakes in the murder of Stephen, destroying the temple of his Holy Spirit ends up as the biggest teacher of Christian faith. ( Let me assure you, friends, more Paul is taught than the messiah Himself in the Churches). And Jesus obviously knew Paul ( or Pharisee saul) would become the biggest teacher of Chrsiatain faith after Him, and yet why did the Lord warn us with"Beware of the Yeast of the Pharisees"
Look forward to some edifying comments which may help lessen/ remove my bewilderment. /\
https://biblehub.com/acts/22-20.htm


https://biblehub.com/acts/23-6.htm
Click to expand...
can you clarify what the bottom line is?
 
There was no contradiction about what Jesus said about blasphemy against the Holy Spirit in Saul/Paul's case. As far as Paul being the former, Saul, was not Spiritually born again as yet and would have not had the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. His transformation did not happen until he was on the road to Damascus traveling from Jerusalem and the Lord came to him and there Jesus called him to be an Apostle, Acts Chapter 9 and Chapter 22.

As a Spiritually born again child of God who has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit will not intentionally blasphemy against God's Spirit. We are to be walking in the Spirit who is truth, 1 John 5:6, but if one allows them self to fall away from truth being in contempt with God's Spirit they have truly hardened their heart as they would rather believe a lie.

The yeast of the Pharisees means those who creep into the church who teach lies and deceit being called false prophets. Many would rather believe a lie than to seek out truth for themselves. One lie can spread like a wild fire within the congregation when they lean on their own understanding, 1 Peter 5:8.

We are the temple of God as Christ dwells in us and we in Him, 1 Corinthians 3:16-20. Only God knows our beginning from our ending and He knew Paul's heart for the Lord, but also knew Saul was yet without the Holy Spirit and Spiritual knowledge and this is why God sent Ananias to seek out Saul. Saul, now being named Paul, spent many days with the disciples and then was sent out to the Gentiles.

Acts 26:11 And I punished them oft in every synagogue, and compelled them to blaspheme; and being exceedingly mad against them, I persecuted them even unto strange cities.

Paul, as Saul, did compel others to blaspheme, but this was done out of ignorance before his conversion on the road to Damascus and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
 
jerry63935 said:
but we have all blasphemed in some way or the other at some point or time..
Click to expand...

I'm interested in how you say we have all blasphemed against the Holy Spirit in some way or another. Do you mean before we were Spiritually renewed by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit?
 
jerry63935 said:
no sin is sin if you cant take 2 cor 5:17 for hat it says along with justification and redemption. then you are rejecting the bible iam sorry to be this way but its the truth. a apostle is one ho is called paul as called directly by Christ . stop and think about..
Click to expand...

Rajesh Sahu is not rejecting the scriptures, but only trying to understand certain ones that are confusing to him and asking others to bring a new light of understanding to him.
 
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What this reminds me of is of Jonah when he went to prophesy against Neneveh. (Though it took some convincing from God before he actually went there). Jonah told the city that their city was doomed. And because of that prophesy, the city repented. They all turned from their sins and showed great sorrow. Because of this God did not punish the city at that time.

The warnings of Jesus to the Pharasises could be like that.
 
I read somewhere that Saul was a very dedicated man and when he persecuted Jesus and then hid disciples he truly believed he was doing the right thing. That is until he met the Lord on the road to Damascus. He was them taught and further taught by Peter
He preached ad a born again Christian not as a Pharisee.
Although, before he was a Christian, he caused others to blaspheme, I don't think it was against the Holy Spirit, the Pharisees were against Jesus the Son of God.
 
for_his_glory said:
Rajesh Sahu is not rejecting the scriptures, but only trying to understand certain ones that are confusing to him and asking others to bring a new light of understanding to him.
Click to expand...
no he is complicating it. this is what is wrong with christians to day .the Bible says the Just shall walk by faith.. i believe the Bible by faith i believe jesus was born of the virgin mary .along with his death on the cross==redemption he paid the price for every sin there was i committed and trust me i had millions . i also believe by faith he arose on the 3td day so i could have eternal life . in hebrews it tell us with out faith it's impossible to please God. yes the process from sinner to saint can b hard to understand to the natural mind .we are saved by grace through faith . did abraham fully understand what or why God had to take issac for a sacrifice . isaac asked where the sacrifice was. abraham said the Lord will provide and he did, to keep questioning why God use saul who was renamed paul . as a apostle is absurd , justification is just as if we had never sinned . i mean i went to great lengths to explain .the reason this is possible is by cross at calvary
 
Tessa said:
read somewhere that Saul was a very dedicated man and when he persecuted Jesus and then hid disciples he truly believed he was doing the right thing.
Click to expand...
i have doubts of this saul was very zealous about protecting Christians .he very educated but Blind till Jesus
 
for_his_glory said:
asking others to bring a new light of understanding to him.
Click to expand...
then by all means explain
Truthfrees said:
can you clarify what the bottom line is?

are you saying that because paul was in the unique position of blaspheming the Holy Spirit his sins were not erased by the blood of Jesus?

so your sins and my sins are but not paul's?

if that is what you are saying what specific scripture says paul blasphemed the Holy Spirit? - Jesus said blaspheming God would be forgiven - Matthew 12:31-32 -

paul is an EX-pharisee - an ex-murderer - an ex-sinner - his sins erased by the blood of Jesus - 1 Timothy 1:15 - 1 Corinthians 15:9 - Ephesians 3:8
Click to expand...
it does make one wonder .i seen a interview barbara walters done with charles manson.sheaskedhim aquestionn i dont recall what it was. he said i was not exactly a sunday school teacher.. saul was very hardcore man against Christians . yet after salvation he put his life on the Line to gt the message of Grace out .
 
Tessa said:
I read somewhere that Saul was a very dedicated man and when he persecuted Jesus and then hid disciples he truly believed he was doing the right thing. That is until he met the Lord on the road to Damascus. He was them taught and further taught by Peter
He preached ad a born again Christian not as a Pharisee.
Although, before he was a Christian, he caused others to blaspheme, I don't think it was against the Holy Spirit, the Pharisees were against Jesus the Son of God.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry there is a typing error there.
It should read "and then the desciples"
Not hid them.


'
 
jerry63935 said:
had you read what i said ---before salvation
Click to expand...

My question was, "I'm interested in how you say we have all blasphemed against the Holy Spirit in some way or another. Do you mean before we were Spiritually renewed by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit?"

It was a basic yes or no question I had when you said we have all blasphemed against the Holy Spirit in some way or another. No one is going to blasphemy against the Spirit of truth if they are grounded in truth and are truly in Christ and He in them as no man can pluck them out of the hands of Christ.

Matthew 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad. 31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. 33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one.
 
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