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Something I dont understand....

C

Chris

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There is something that baffles me to no end.

Someone says to us Christians they have no belief in God and totally reject Christianity.

Why argue with them and debate it? Why not just wish them well in their decision and move onto someone else who is is waiting to hear about how Christianity can help them.

Why persist debating with those who couldn't care less about our faith and overlook a prayer request. I don't like hearing people say they reject the notion of God, but if someone rejects our faith or Rejects the existence of God why worry about it?. I just wish them well in it. Its their personal decision they live with. I want
them to wish me well in my faith decision.

It seems to me those that oppose our faith get a lot of attention.

Maybe at the expense of others waiting to hear from someone with the message?
 
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jasoncran

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while i understand that but why then do we have the calvinists vs arminists and the lefties vs the righties and the the te's vs the yecers and oec ere etc as well.

some people do have something they like to debate and wont stop. i have mine(creationism and or end times and once in a while calvinism). i dont debate much on creationism here , i mainly go to the creationist site i am on for that and also i read up on what they say. i have much to learn.
 
F

felix

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Did you forgot what Jesus said? He asked you to shake the dust on your feet as a witness and not debate.

I vaguely remember a story of a little servant boy who said the gospel to his master and his master rejected. So, the little boy did exactly what Jesus said. After several years, the little boy, having grown up happen to visit only to learn the terrible judgment by God on his master.
 

Classik

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There is something that baffles me to no end.

Someone says to us Christians they have no belief in God and totally reject Christianity.

Why argue with them and debate it? Why not just wish them well in their decision and move onto someone else who is is waiting to hear about how Christianity can help them.

Why persist debating with those who couldn't care less about our faith and overlook a prayer request. I don't like hearing people say they reject the notion of God, but if someone rejects our faith or Rejects the existence of God why worry about it?. I just wish them well in it. Its their personal decision they live with. I want
them to wish me well in my faith decision.

It seems to me those that oppose our faith get a lot of attention.

Maybe at the expense of others waiting to hear from someone with the message?

I understand what you are saying, Chris. You are right. But remember not all arguments and debates are bad. At times we need such an atmosphere to teach people that God exists.
Some would eventually listen and fall at Jesus' feet.

I don't think it is okay to wish them well and discharge them. It is kind of saying: 'Okay - you don't wanna listen...go and perish in your belief.

Some already have their mind made up. Should we quit? At least we can pray for them.
 

Classik

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I understand what you are saying, Chris. You are right. But remember not all arguments and debates are bad. At times we need such an atmosphere to teach people that God exists.
Some would eventually listen and fall at Jesus' feet.

I don't think it is okay to wish them well and discharge them. It is kind of saying: 'Okay - you don't wanna listen...go and perish in your belief.

Some already have their mind made up. Should we quit? At least we can pray for them.


Quite different from or perhaps similar to:
http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=39053&pagenumber=



I Don't mean like...Die and go to the Lord. I mean like avoid the conversation.
I tend to find it much more effencent to study on you-tube and throuh the Bible it's-self rather than Having a so-called discussion where everyone tries to Bicker and Dis-prove something they either think is false or don't like without researching the thing in great detail. (BTW, Great detail means a minimum of 2'000 hours on the thing being discussed.)

People, we are human. We do not get everything right the frst time. Or the secound time. Or even the 1'000 time. Just because you think, where tought, or hope somethuing is right doesn't mean it is right.

I'm all up for Discussing things and such. But the moment Bickering and bashing comes into the Display, I'm out.

Anyway, does anyone besides me feel this way?
I agree with ya. It is better to flee - not that you have been crushed:sad
here you have people who believe, but with different ideas.
 

Classik

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Maybe in both cases we do the little we can - God takes care of the rest!
 

handy

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A time to tear apart and a time to sew together;
A time to be silent and a time to speak.
A time to love and a time to hate;
A time for war and a time for peace.
Ecclesiastes 3:7-8


There are times when it's not only appropriate but we are actually called upon to argue, debate...stand firm and not allow some things to pass.

However, I think Christians get mixed up as to when that time is. I don't think we ever need "argue" the Gospel with unbelievers...share it, if they respond positively, even if they just come back with questions...continue to share with them. If they out and out reject the Gospel though...move on.

However, here is another text to consider:

Jude 3-4
Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints. For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.


The time to "contend earnestly for the faith" is when people come into our midst and teach things counter to Scripture. Not out there in the unbelieving world, but within the Church.

I think this is why we see a lot of contention around here, especially with issues like Calvinism vs. Arminianism, infant vs. believers baptism, and 6/24 hour creationism vs. theistic evolution.

These are issue that are causing division within the Church and rightly so, because these are issues that are either right or wrong...if a church embraces one side of the issue, they are either teaching truth or error. That is worth contending for.

But, arguing with unbelievers...I'd dearly love to see some sort of example of that within the Scriptures. I just don't think it's Biblical. Share the gospel freely to all, be ready with answers for the faith we have, and follow up with those who ask thoughtful questions. But, if they just want to argue with us about our faith...move on.
 

jasoncran

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chris, this site has helped me with the real world skeptics far more then you know. i work with some characters.

one is a nowit all that well is a passive agressive type that i dont bother with as i could walk circles around his statements most of the time but he wont budge.

the other is smart man that was arrested for discharging his weapon and is a recovering drunk and believes in the "christs conscienscness" three days ago i explained that the lord had to be who he is in the bible and if not then when christians say the christ consciences and the book course of miracles is wrong or christianity is wrong. there must be a universal truth that is unmatable or otherwise truth is pointless to search for. all men and faiths cant be all correct.

he didnt agree with my view on christ but he got the idea of why christians are either right or wrong.
 

Gazelle

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In a big way I agree with you Chris. However, I'm new here and don't see where someone who is stirring the pot gives anyone time to take a breath and see if they are just stirring the pot, or if by their very act of being here means they are really seeking and want answers to their questions.

I do believe that conversations here with unbelievers about anything but WHO CHRIST IS and what He did for us, is not the way to win them to Christ and is probably a waste of time. They can't understand anything of the things of God until they know the above.

Be well.
 
C

Chris

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I have 2 atheist friends both are girls one is more my wife's friend. They are turned off us Christians because they have been met by someone who tried to convert and wouldn't take no for an answer. I hear that comment heaps, its not just on forums. I know in the case of some deep thinking atheist types it would take heaps of discussion before they converted.

I have always thought the best thing a christian could ever say is an example of a life touched by Christ.
 
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Acebopata

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Chris is right. While we do need to be discussing the Lord with people, it is best not to push it too far, as that turns off people.

I had a chance to witness to three people. The first one rejected Christ, Partilly because I pushed too hard. The other two accepterd him, partually because I was careful during the discussion, tried not to press too hard, and lived life like a true Christian should, one they could be proud to look up too.

There's one saying I like to use. "A forceful message never brings comfort, and any solutions suggested in the message only work for a short time or are brushed off as rubbish."
 
C

Chris

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Chris is right. While we do need to be discussing the Lord with people, it is best not to push it too far, as that turns off people.

I had a chance to witness to three people. The first one rejected Christ, Partilly because I pushed too hard. The other two accepterd him, partually because I was careful during the discussion, tried not to press too hard, and lived life like a true Christian should, one they could be proud to look up too.

There's one saying I like to use. "A forceful message never brings comfort, and any solutions suggested in the message only work for a short time or are brushed off as rubbish."
I have done that too. I still feel guilty for being too over zealous trying to convert the world in my idealistic teenage years and 20's. I didn't work out better ways to discuss my faith till I was much older.
 

Gazelle

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I still feel guilty for being too over zealous trying to convert the world in my idealistic teenage years and 20's.
Ah yes! However, today we have Evangelism Explosion to send the teens to, so they can learn what we had to learn "the hard way" ?
 

WIP

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Chris is right. While we do need to be discussing the Lord with people, it is best not to push it too far, as that turns off people.

I had a chance to witness to three people. The first one rejected Christ, Partilly because I pushed too hard. The other two accepterd him, partually because I was careful during the discussion, tried not to press too hard, and lived life like a true Christian should, one they could be proud to look up too.

There's one saying I like to use. "A forceful message never brings comfort, and any solutions suggested in the message only work for a short time or are brushed off as rubbish."

Sometimes I think we confuse "witnessing" with "prosecuting." God doesn't need prosecutors. I think, for the most part, all we need to do is witness for Christ and let the Holy Spirit take it from there.
 

KetherMalkuth

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Here's something I don't understand. Why is it assumed that a person who rejects christianity also rejects God? But more importantly, why try to convince a person that they should believe what you believe, then offer no valid proof that you are right? Consider this. You convince people to convert because you believe it so much that you want them to share in it and not suffer the wrath of God, and you turn out to be wrong. Was it better to debate it or to consider the other peoples beliefs? I think you should listen to everybody, research all possibilities, research the foundation of all religions, and draw your conclusions based on what you discover. Good luck everyone
 
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