Strong rebutttals & questions to "We don't have freewill!"

[Fastfredy0]

Does God give us hope, peace, joy? How is it hopeful or joyous to think you're a robot?

This statement has no biblical foundation as the Bible never mentions robots. The statement fails to become an actual objection by neglecting to say why it would be a problem for us to be robots and puppets. Would it mean that the Christian faith is false, or would it contradict the Christian faith, if we are robots and puppets?

If your belief is right, He is also making you and i debate freewill. Every. Single. Human. who believes freewill exists never chose to follow the evidence, instead God Himself caused the person to believe freewill. Why would God want anyone to believe freewill exists if the opposite is true? So your belief is self refuting.

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Free Will means that a person themself is the number one cause of all actions they takes.

This contradict reality. Studies has shown that 60-70% of individual spiritual belief system is roughly the same as their parents. See https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2020/09/10/u-s-teens-take-after-their-parents-religiously-attend-services-together-and-enjoy-family-rituals/

Question for you ..... If you have "free will" why did you and 8 billion other people ALL chose to have a SIN NATURE?

Nor does it say that our Eternal Fate is fixed.

God knows all things and is immutable, therefore your eternal fate is fixed. If God knows, that by creating you, you will end up in hell, how is he not determined you to end up in hell by creating you?

If free will is fake, then nobody has any choice.

You have a choice to follow your will/desires. You are NOT the cause of your will/desires.

You cannot program your will:
Nothing can act before it be. The “will” of man was not and therefore could not make itself to be. For the “will” to produce itself is to act; if the “will” acted before it was, it was then something and nothing at the same time; it then had a being before it had a being; it acted when it brought itself into being. How could the “will” act without a being, without it was? So that if it were the cause of itself, it must be before itself as well as after itself; it was before it was; it was as a cause before it was as an effect. Action always supposeth a principle from whence it flows; as nothing hath no existence, so it hath no operation: there must be, therefore, something of real existence to give a being to those things that are, and every cause must be an effect of some other before it be a cause. Stephen Charnock You choose freely according to your will, but you do not choose/select your desire/will.

If one believes that one self-determines one's salvific faith then one believes in WORKS SALVATION for a WORK is defined and something one does for a purpose. Galatians points out that believers of WORKS SALVATION are accursed. Good luck with that as some say, others like God say fortunate predestination (pre-determination).
Some say they have freedom to choose and that God the almighty freedom to choose is subordinate to man's in this regard, that men control God in this regard ... interesting philosophy of the inferior controlling the Superior.

 

[Elijah7777]

Would it mean that the Christian faith is false, or would it contradict the Christian faith, if we are robots and puppets?

The question is would we be like the animals. We have the breath of life. God breathed life into Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden.

 

[Fastfredy0]

The question is would we be like the animals. We have the breath of life. God breathed life into Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden.

We are like animals. In fact we are animals.
Definition of "animal" - a living organism that feeds on organic matter, typically having specialized sense organs and nervous system and able to respond rapidly to stimuli.

.... but back to my point: Would it mean that the Christian faith is false, or would it contradict the Christian faith, if we are robots and puppets?
Lots of verses show people are robots/puppets as I think KV-44-v1 defines it, though the text don't use those terms.
Verses showing we are in effect Robots/Puppets

• Exodus 4:11 The Lord said to him, “Who has made man’s mouth? Or who makes the mute or the deaf, or the seeing or the blind? Is it not I, the Lord? 12 Now then go, and I, even I, will be with your mouth, and will teach you what you shall say.” puppets, whereas a non-puppet not need the Lord's input/control
• Exodus 14:4 And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and he will pursue them. But I will gain glory for myself through Pharaoh and all his army, and the Egyptians will know that I am the LORD. puppets
• Exodus 14:17 “And I indeed will harden the hearts of the Egyptians, and they shall follow them. So I will gain honor over Pharaoh and over all his army, his chariots, and his horsemen.” puppets
• Numbers 22:38 “Have I now any power at all to say anything? The word that God puts in my mouth, that shall I speak.” puppets, whereas a non-puppet would self-determine his speech
• Job 14:5 Man’s days “are determined, the number of his months is with [God], and his limits [God] has set so that he cannot pass” puppets
• Psalm 33:10 The Lord brings the counsel of the nations to nought; He makes the thoughts and plans of the peoples of no effect. [puppets … our thoughts and plans are of NO EFFECT]
• Psalm 33:15 He Who fashions the hearts of them all, puppets fashioned by God
• Psalm 139:16 Your eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Your book were all written [puppets … note the word WRITTEN as opposed to RECORDED] the days that were appointed for me, When as yet there was not one of them [even taking shape].
• Out of the heart are "the issues of life" (Proverbs 4:23), for as a man "thinketh in his heart, so is he" (Proverbs 23:7). If then the heart is in the hand of the Lord, and if "He turns it whithersoever He will," (Proverbs 21:1) then is it not clear that men, yea, governors and rulers, and so all men, are completely beneath the governmental control of the Almighty! puppets
• Proverbs 8:14 I have counsel and sound knowledge, I have understanding, I have might and power. 15 By me kings reign and rulers decree justice. 16 By me princes rule, and nobles, even all the judges and governors of the earth.
• Out of the heart are "the issues of life" (Proverbs 4:23), for as a man "thinketh in his heart, so is he" (Proverbs 23:7). If then the heart is in the hand of the Lord, and if "He turns it whithersoever He will," (Proverbs 21:1) then is it not clear that men, yea, governors and rulers, and so all men, are completely beneath the governmental control of the Almighty! puppets
• Proverbs 8:14 I have counsel and sound knowledge, I have understanding, I have might and power. 15 By me kings reign and rulers decree justice. 16 By me princes rule, and nobles, even all the judges and governors of the earth.
• Proverbs 16:9 A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps. If the Lord directs the steps of a man, is it not proof that he is being controlled or governed by God and therefore he is dependent on God for all things including FAITH? puppets
• Proverbs 19:21 Many plans are in a man’s mind, But it is the Lord’s purpose for him that will stand (be carried out). [puppets. It is God’s purpose that decides our fate]
• Proverbs 20:24 A man’s steps are directed by the LORD. How then can anyone understand his own way? [puppets … our steps are directed by God and not ourselves. We therefore cannot autonomously believe God]

I could list many more but I think I made my point. Just because every verse in which man does something does not attribute the cause to God does not mean God was not the cause.

We're God's PUPPETS per scripture where PUPPET is defined as "controlled by God".

 

[Elijah7777]

Exodus 14:4 And I will harden Pharaoh's heart

There is no fence sitting with God, you are in or out. "So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth." Revelation 3:16