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Bible Study Subjective Law

Soul man

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If we had nothing but the Old Testament, all religion would be subjective. By this, I mean everything that is Godly would have to be earned. For this to happen, the law would have to work two ways. One, to get anything from God, you would have to keep the law. Two, if you did not keep the law, it would work against you and restrict you from being who you were in Christ, it might even destroy you, Romans 7:11.

This makes you wonder why anyone would want to be under the law. But there are some Christians that are under some law, either Moses law, some religious man's law or some doctrinal law. Law is what runs religion, Grace is the power that flows out of the Cross, an objectively finished work that no one can add to. Listed are some facts of law vs Grace.

1) Christ is the end of the law, Romans 10:4. This means that Christ's death on the cross was what ended the law. More so, it means that the law was put into Christ along with sin and when he died law and sin died with him, 1 Peter 2:24, Romans 7:4.
Our freedom from the law and sin is as complete as his death on the cross was real.

2) Old Testament law was given to expose sin, but the exposure of sin was never freedom from sin. As it is with many today, they know they are guilty of sin, but guilt does not free them from their sin. Sin is dealt with at the cross and The Sinner must go to the Cross to be free from sin, 1 John 1:7.

3) The law that was given to Moses, the Torah, and even the law of the kingdom in the days of Jesus of Nazareth, was to be temporary. The law could not save from sin, the father knew that, in time, it had to go. The blood of Jesus Christ would wash away all sin.

4) law produces self works, Grace produces Christ Works in us. This is the sharp distinction between the gospel to Israel and the gospel of Paul to the Gentiles. Israel, is in an un-birthed state, will always be bound by the law and Covenants, but the born-again will be free from the law.

The born-again will have Commandments to obey as did Israel of old. There are in fact over 377 Commandments in Paul's Epistles, but all of them are love Commandments. That is, there is no judgment attached to the Commandment. Believers are to serve God out of love and not out of law.

When it comes to righteousness, objectively the believer is birthed into Christ's righteousness, but subjectively a believer under the law must earn righteousness. It must always be remembered that anything a believer does within himself to please God, constitutes a religious act separate from the Christ who lives in him.

Since God placed Christ in the believer, He will not look to the believer to do anything himself aside from Christ in him. This is what changed at the cross. Humans were crucified with Christ so that in Salvation Christ could be there only life and they would no longer live, Gal. 2:20.
 

Chopper

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O boy, our Soul man theologian is back. :sohappy I was concerned that I hadn't seen you for awhile.

I'd like to add a little something to your thread about the difference between Law and the Torah. There are many folk that believe the Law and Torah are the same when they're not. This is what you wrote....
The law that was given to Moses, the Torah

The Law was exactly what you wrote, A very good explanation if I do say, thank you. Now the Torah is a horse of a different color, so to speak. The Torah is LOVING INSTRUCTION from Elohim (God) to His children so that they could escape the many pitfalls of Satan who was hell bent on destroying the generational line in which Yahshua Jesus would come to destroy Satan's head.... Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

All through the First Covenant, we witness the rebellion of Israel. There was a time that I wondered why the Jewish folk could disobey such a loving God who was so good to them supplying their needs all thru their wilderness wanderings from Egypt.

There was the absence of the Holy Spirit and the presence of Satan and his minions. Whenever I read the account of Moses being on the Mountain so long, Aaron was asked to make the golden calf, WHAT?? Guess who orchestrated that? Yep! Old slew foot himself.

Law pointed out sin, Torah pointed out instruction how to avoid the traps of Satan and other loving instruction. They are different in motive and outcome.

It's so good to see you posting again my wonderful friend. Have you heard from Hermit?
 

Papa Zoom

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If we had nothing but the Old Testament, all religion would be subjective. By this, I mean everything that is Godly would have to be earned. For this to happen, the law would have to work two ways. One, to get anything from God, you would have to keep the law. Two, if you did not keep the law, it would work against you and restrict you from being who you were in Christ, it might even destroy you, Romans 7:11.

This makes you wonder why anyone would want to be under the law. But there are some Christians that are under some law, either Moses law, some religious man's law or some doctrinal law. Law is what runs religion, Grace is the power that flows out of the Cross, an objectively finished work that no one can add to. Listed are some facts of law vs Grace.

1) Christ is the end of the law, Romans 10:4. This means that Christ's death on the cross was what ended the law. More so, it means that the law was put into Christ along with sin and when he died law and sin died with him, 1 Peter 2:24, Romans 7:4.
Our freedom from the law and sin is as complete as his death on the cross was real.

2) Old Testament law was given to expose sin, but the exposure of sin was never freedom from sin. As it is with many today, they know they are guilty of sin, but guilt does not free them from their sin. Sin is dealt with at the cross and The Sinner must go to the Cross to be free from sin, 1 John 1:7.

3) The law that was given to Moses, the Torah, and even the law of the kingdom in the days of Jesus of Nazareth, was to be temporary. The law could not save from sin, the father knew that, in time, it had to go. The blood of Jesus Christ would wash away all sin.

4) law produces self works, Grace produces Christ Works in us. This is the sharp distinction between the gospel to Israel and the gospel of Paul to the Gentiles. Israel, is in an un-birthed state, will always be bound by the law and Covenants, but the born-again will be free from the law.

The born-again will have Commandments to obey as did Israel of old. There are in fact over 377 Commandments in Paul's Epistles, but all of them are love Commandments. That is, there is no judgment attached to the Commandment. Believers are to serve God out of love and not out of law.

When it comes to righteousness, objectively the believer is birthed into Christ's righteousness, but subjectively a believer under the law must earn righteousness. It must always be remembered that anything a believer does within himself to please God, constitutes a religious act separate from the Christ who lives in him.

Since God placed Christ in the believer, He will not look to the believer to do anything himself aside from Christ in him. This is what changed at the cross. Humans were crucified with Christ so that in Salvation Christ could be there only life and they would no longer live, Gal. 2:20.
I like what you have to say. I grew up in a legalistic home and church and then taught my children from that influence. Sadly, they've walked away. Meanwhile I've discovered the full power of GRACE and the teaching in the NT on LOVE and it's life changing for me. He's still working on me!
 
W

WinterPuma

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If we had nothing but the Old Testament, all religion would be subjective. By this, I mean everything that is Godly would have to be earned.
Oh darlin, you have but to read threads in Hot Topics to find more than one discussion wherein you'll witness that very thing being argued repeatedly.
That we have to earn our salvation. That there is no such thing as eternal salvation by faith.

All religion is subjective, by the way.
 

Kidron

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When it comes to righteousness, objectively the believer is birthed into Christ's righteousness,.

-

Or, you could say that Christ's righteousness is LITERALLY birthed AS the born again believer.
This is why our NT says that "WE ARE the righteousness of God in Christ", and that "as Christ IS, so are WE in this world".
Christianity is represented not by those who follow it, but instead by those who have become it.
Redemption is a divine transformation.... or in street lingo its God's Holy Makeover, regarding "all who would come " and be "born again".
Its a new spiritual condition, a new eternal position, and a brand new Father.

For those of you who have not been to Israel yet.....and you need to go, you need......to.....go, and walk where God walked.
Its surreal and beautiful and endlessly fascinating to be walking where the God of the universe, the God of all creation, walked as a Man.
And to know you are RIGHT THERE....is, not to be missed if you are a true believer in Yeshua.
Honestly, Saints, for you to go to Jerusalem and feel it around you.....feel the Mount of Olives around you, feel the stars over Israel as they twinkle down at you at night........ Im telling you......pleading with you really, put down your silly life of cable tv and job security and living the same existence day after day after day after day, and go to Israel for a 2 week tour and let this just galvanize your faith and heart towards the Lord and God the Father.
You just need to do it ..... !

The first time you are on an Israel - Israeli beach, or on a sidewalk in one of the Israeli "city centers" and you see a bunch of little kids having fun with their dad and they are calling him...."abba"..."abba"....."abba"......................"abba".
That is a WOW moment that you will never forget as you are reminded in such a wonderful way that we also have an "Abba" who we are going to be with, very soon.


<K><
 
Last edited:
W

WinterPuma

Guest
-

Or, you could say that Christ's righteousness is LITERALLY birthed AS the born again believer.
This is why our NT says that "WE ARE the righteousness of God in Christ", and that "as Christ IS, so are WE in this world".
Christianity is represented not by those who follow it, but instead by those who have become it.
Redemption is a divine transformation.... or in street lingo its God's Holy Makeover, regarding "all who would come " and be "born again".
Its a new spiritual condition, a new eternal position, and a brand new Father.

For those of you who have not been to Israel yet.....and you need to go, you need......to.....go, and walk where God walked.
Its surreal and beautiful and endlessly fascinating to be walking where the God of the universe, the God of all creation, walked as a Man.
And to know you are RIGHT THERE....is, not to be missed if you are a true believer in Yeshua.
Honestly, Saints, for you to go to Jerusalem and feel it around you.....feel the Mount of Olives around you, feel the stars over Israel as they twinkle down at you at night........ Im telling you......pleading with you really, put down your silly life of cable tv and job security and living the same existence day after day after day after day, and go to Israel for a 2 week tour and let this just galvanize your faith and heart towards the Lord and God the Father.
You just need to do it ..... !

The first time you are on an Israel - Israeli beach, or on a sidewalk in one of the Israeli "city centers" and you see a bunch of little kids having fun with their dad and they are calling him...."abba"..."abba"....."abba"......................"abba".
That is a WOW moment that you will never forget as you are reminded in such a wonderful way that we also have an "Abba" who we are going to be with, very soon.


<K><
I love that post.
Do you think you would or could, move there? I don't know how immigration to Israel would work. I've wanted to see Israel for quite awhile.
How were you safety wise?
 

Soul man

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From
Fletcher Oklahoma
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Male
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478
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Jan 26, 2017
I like what you have to say. I grew up in a legalistic home and church and then taught my children from that influence. Sadly, they've walked away. Meanwhile I've discovered the full power of GRACE and the teaching in the NT on LOVE and it's life changing for me. He's still working on me!

Thank you, yes kids do have a mind of their own.
Mine will be down this weekend, I probably should beat some since into them haha
 
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