Taking a Life

[Mike]

I tried to think of a title that wasn't overly or under dramatic. It is what it is.

Yesterday, I had a first time experience. I took our 13-year old dog to the vet, held him in my arms as the vet stuck a needle in his leg, and watched life slip from him. His eyes stayed open, and his body went limp. The crying and pain left in about 10 seconds.

I'm pretty sheltered in this regard. I've never been so close to the moment life ended. I've had family die, but I was never with them when the final breath was taken.

He was just a dog, but I've replayed that moment in my mind at least 100 times since. It made me wonder how a person can get to the point, come to the moment, when they take the life of another human being. I have remorse having had mercifully (IMO) decided to end the life of a dog. A dog. I have no idea what becomes so disconnected in a person who takes the life of another human being.

My wife and I just finished watching the TV series "Dexter" on Netflix where at least one person was murdered every episode. We've become numb to murder in our society unless we're personally impacted.

I'm not depressed or anything. I kinda think I'm having a normal response to this experience. I'm wondering if anyone has ever had an experience (great or small) that had an impact on your thoughts about murder we see on the news every day? I think they'd have to put me in a straight jacket if I snuffed out the life of another person.

I hope this wasn't too much of a downer. Just thinkin'...

 

[jasonc]

I tried to think of a title that wasn't overly or under dramatic. It is what it is.

Yesterday, I had a first time experience. I took our 13-year old dog to the vet, held him in my arms as the vet stuck a needle in his leg, and watched life slip from him. His eyes stayed open, and his body went limp. The crying and pain left in about 10 seconds.

I'm pretty sheltered in this regard. I've never been so close to the moment life ended. I've had family die, but I was never with them when the final breath was taken.

He was just a dog, but I've replayed that moment in my mind at least 100 times since. It made me wonder how a person can get to the point, come to the moment, when they take the life of another human being. I have remorse having had mercifully (IMO) decided to end the life of a dog. A dog. I have no idea what becomes so disconnected in a person who takes the life of another human being.

My wife and I just finished watching the TV series "Dexter" on Netflix where at least one person was murdered every episode. We've become numb to murder in our society unless we're personally impacted.

I'm not depressed or anything. I kinda think I'm having a normal response to this experience. I'm wondering if anyone has ever had an experience (great or small) that had an impact on your thoughts about murder we see on the news every day? I think they'd have to put me in a straight jacket if I snuffed out the life of another person.

I hope this wasn't too much of a downer. Just thinkin'...

veterans day, memorial day, this subject.

 

[Kathi]

I tried to think of a title that wasn't overly or under dramatic. It is what it is.

Yesterday, I had a first time experience. I took our 13-year old dog to the vet, held him in my arms as the vet stuck a needle in his leg, and watched life slip from him. His eyes stayed open, and his body went limp. The crying and pain left in about 10 seconds.

I'm pretty sheltered in this regard. I've never been so close to the moment life ended. I've had family die, but I was never with them when the final breath was taken.

He was just a dog, but I've replayed that moment in my mind at least 100 times since. It made me wonder how a person can get to the point, come to the moment, when they take the life of another human being. I have remorse having had mercifully (IMO) decided to end the life of a dog. A dog. I have no idea what becomes so disconnected in a person who takes the life of another human being.

My wife and I just finished watching the TV series "Dexter" on Netflix where at least one person was murdered every episode. We've become numb to murder in our society unless we're personally impacted.

I'm not depressed or anything. I kinda think I'm having a normal response to this experience. I'm wondering if anyone has ever had an experience (great or small) that had an impact on your thoughts about murder we see on the news every day? I think they'd have to put me in a straight jacket if I snuffed out the life of another person.


I hope this wasn't too much of a downer. Just thinkin'...

I am sorry for your loss.Been there done that.I cried for days.There is a very big difference in Euthanasia of an animal and a human being.

 

[evenifigoalone]

I've had animals die in my arms like three times now (two euthanized, one died from unknown causes and I happened to be able to be there with it in it's final moments)...I'm not a cryer, but it's impossible to not cry like a baby in that situation.

Even feeding my dog a frozen feeder mouse--I'd fed him plenty before, but the one time I had to actually tear it's skin open to get him to eat it, I found myself pretty disturbed without really knowing why. Just...the idea that it was as easy as it was to do that, I guess. That it would be just as easy to kill something that's closer and precious to me. That's not a pleasant thought.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I've been watching 'Ken Burns: The War' on Netflix for the past couple of weeks. It's very sobering, and it's cementing my change of mind in recent years about death in this world and how it's impact is on the living, not the dead. When we see a twisted contorted corpse we think about the person, but in reality there is no person there anymore to feel sorry for.

 

[Mike]

Interesting stuff. There is something so profound about that one moment where there was life and then not. This was just a hint of the instant a person decides to remove the life of another person from this world. Even in the most justified and merciful circumstances, it is no small thing.

 

[Blake]

I was blessed to be with my grandmother when she took her last breath. She died in her home, with her daughters, two of her grandsons myself included, and her husband, my grandfather. I will never forget it. It was the beginning of April. Her skin was mottling and her breaths were growing so shallow. Cancer had spread through her like fire, the doctors told us 6 months to a year, in reality it was just a few weeks.

She wasn't able to respond, but I knew she could hear me. I held her hand in mine and I told her, "Don't you worry Grandma, we are going to be alright down here. God has chosen to take you so close to Easter, when He makes all things new." A tear rolled out of her eye. My aunt sang to her, and she went to be with Jesus.

I've never looked at death or even my own life the same ever since. You never know when you are gonna go. All we can do is be vigilant, meditate on our own deaths, abstain from sin, seek the Kingdom... I'll see her again one day. My spirit tells me it may be sooner than I imagine, but that is neither here nor there. I believe God takes us when His time is right, and I don't question it.

Saturday morning I was asked to speak at my god-daughters' grave. We were celebrating their 2nd birthday. I was likewise there when they died -- not directly in their presence, but in the hospital where it happened. At the cemetery (same one where my own grandma and grandpa are buried), their mother was putting new flowers in their vase, and remarked "I think I felt a spider! But that's okay. It's probably my babies' friend." She hasn't even turned 21 yet, God bless her heart, and she carries a heavy burden. I told her that God took them while they were yet perfect and sinless, and they never have to worry about worldly friendship down here which is so fragile and comes and goes -- they have a friend in heaven, eternally in the presence of Jesus Christ. And everyone wept.

Strange as it may sound, being made more accustomed to death has been a blessing in my life. I have at times simply sat in cemeteries and pondered on death, meditated on it. And I don't find that to be a morbid thing. The old monastics from many, many years ago said "meditate on your death and you will never sin."

We are desensitized to it, I believe, for that very reason.

 

[Edward]

Interesting stuff. There is something so profound about that one moment where there was life and then not. This was just a hint of the instant a person decides to remove the life of another person from this world. Even in the most justified and merciful circumstances, it is no small thing.

I hear you brother, it's no small thing. I was at the vet with my dog when he passed from kidney failure. It was pretty hard, he was a good dog. Like you, I also pondered life afterwards, and death. There is a hint there of the similarity of lives of people also. Having been carrying a pistol for self defense for many years I have pondered the taking of another life very thoroughly, which is a necessity if one plans to be able to defend oneself or ones charge. One must think it through very much so, so that if the situation ever arises, then one would not hesitate, and stop to think about it then, it should have already been thought about and decided beforehand.

I have also read many testimonials of people who have taken a life in self defense...and they all say that even in a justifiable situation where they had no choice...kill or be killed...that it changes you psychologically, never for the better. I emphatically do not want to ever have to take a life. I don't want to carry that around with me. I would if I had to...but I wouldn't like it, and I'd look for another way out if possible.

I've come close a couple times. Very close. BUT! Having already thought it through and practiced up enough to be confidently proficient with my weapon, it allowed me to have the needed micro seconds needed to be able to look for and take advantage of other alternatives which allowed for the other to live, and for me to still do what I had to do and remain in control of the situation and remain safe without taking a life. Plus, the Lord was obviously with me.

I won. I'm still here and didn't have to take a life! But (aside from the Lord) it was indeed the weapon and the willingness to take a life if needed that let me be able to control the situation. I reeealy don't want to take a life, ever. I read a story once about a guy who was approached by 3 men with knives as he and his wife exited a restaurant and they were going to (at least) rob them. But they had knives and the uncertainty of the outcome forced his hand to defend himself and his wife. He drew his concealed 45 and shot all three of them, two died. He was justified and no charges were filed, but he felt horrible and had nightmares...plus... his wife left him over it. She said thanks for saving my life, but I can't look at you the same anymore, all I see is you shooting people.

So even though he "did the right thing" and did it well and made no mistakes...it still ruined his life. That left a big impression on me. Taking a life is a horrible thing to do. Sometimes it may be necessary, but nobody ever really wins.

People are the most valuable thing on earth. Even our enemies. It's not really their fault, it's all the evil in the world that has affected them and led them down the wrong path into a hardened heart. They need help because they are lost. They need love and prayer, you know?

We wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers...evil spirits behind the scenes. The only way to combat this evil is to walk in love with an understanding heart.

We have to be careful what we watch so that we do not become desensitized to violence and so forth. This is why scripture tells us to love our enemies. If we can understand that, that is what they need, love, then perhaps, just perhaps...we can...love the hell out of them.

 

[for_his_glory]

Two scriptures come to mind:
Deu 5:17 Thou shalt not kill.
Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

It becomes confusing to me that God instructs us not to kill nor to fear someone who will try and kill us. I know God is not the author of confusion, but it is I that am confused as I see God use those in the OT to take out the enemy by killing them even though He said thou shalt not kill. In our small group of friends we were talking about end time scenarios where we might need to go off the grid and basically go into survival mood living off the land that God will provide for our needs as in shelter and food. The men (who are all Christian) say they will shoot to kill anyone who tries to come against us as in trying to kill us. I am so against kill or be killed just by being in obedience to these two scriptures. If it's food and shelter they are seeking then please join us, but if it's your the enemy and they are sent to take us out, then to me so be it as I know that I will be with the Lord when He returns and no longer have to endure the things of this world. Am I wrong in this thinking of so be it?

 

[Edward]

Two scriptures come to mind:
Deu 5:17 Thou shalt not kill.
Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

It becomes confusing to me that God instructs us not to kill nor to fear someone who will try and kill us. I know God is not the author of confusion, but it is I that am confused as I see God use those in the OT to take out the enemy by killing them even though He said thou shalt not kill. In our small group of friends we were talking about end time scenarios where we might need to go off the grid and basically go into survival mood living off the land that God will provide for our needs as in shelter and food. The men (who are all Christian) say they will shoot to kill anyone who tries to come against us as in trying to kill us. I am so against kill or be killed just by being in obedience to these two scriptures. If it's food and shelter they are seeking then please join us, but if it's your the enemy and they are sent to take us out, then to me so be it as I know that I will be with the Lord when He returns and no longer have to endure the things of this world. Am I wrong in this thinking of so be it?

No, you're not wrong in thinking this. This is what's in your heart and you feel so out of a respect for the Lord, so no you're not wrong. Even brave to an extent.

On the other hand, scripture seems to go both ways on this issue. Check this out...

Exodus 22:2
2 If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed./

Common sense tells us that if it can be justifiable to kill a thief, then self protection would be ok also. So I suppose that it depends upon what is the heart of the individual. But you are in no way wrong. Some would say that you're stupid, but not me, I understand.

 

[jasonc]

until one has faced the eyes of one who is dying by your hands or is in that situation we all speculate what we will do.

 

[Edward]

until one has faced the eyes of one who is dying by your hands or is in that situation we all speculate what we will do.

Training makes a difference. While I have never killed or even shot anyone, I have drew a gun on them. It is true what they say that in a crisis moment that one reverts to their training. I had a presence of mind that...one can't have unless they have training (I think). I didn't really feel fear, or fight or flight, I just knew I had to control the situation. Does that make sense?

 

[jasonc]

Training makes a difference. While I have never killed or even shot anyone, I have drew a gun on them. It is true what they say that in a crisis moment that one reverts to their training. I had a presence of mind that...one can't have unless they have training (I think). I didn't really feel fear, or fight or flight, I just knew I had to control the situation. Does that make sense?

im not denying that but some people may train and well training is great but its a whole lot different when the rounds are flying by and the heart is a pumping and that tail end is puckering. trust me I remember this time in my life.its like the world slowed down into slow motion.

 

[Edward]

im not denying that but some people may train and well training is great but its a whole lot different when the rounds are flying by and the heart is a pumping and that tail end is puckering. trust me I remember this time in my life.its like the world slowed down into slow motion.

I did experience that too. When I drew on him, he looked at me for about two seconds...and then started forward motion toward me. That's when it started. My brain shifted and it was like everything was going in slo mo.I thought about shooting him, thought about retreat, thought about the make my day law, thought about firing a warning shot into the grass and wondering if that would scare him away as I was retreating into the house and if it didn't would I still have time to shoot him? I would, so that's what I did.

No one was shot, just one warning shot into the grass and then he was a ghost. Never saw him again.

 

[Mike]

for_his_glory I wonder if you'd consider that the scripture you referenced in Matthew might be speaking to the threat of death in martyrdom. That's what I'm seeing. We shouldn't be afraid of dying for our faith if our confessed faith is what is drawing the threat, but senseless death is different. I don't see that Jesus instructs to sit passively by as our lives are at risk, not for following Him, but for some other random reason altogether. I suspect I would always try to subdue my attacker by any means and kill only as a last resort.

I didn't intend on this being a discussion about killing in self defense, but to Edward 's point, the fallout would and should never be easy to cope with. Taking the life of another person under any set of circumstances is taking a life nonetheless.

 

[for_his_glory]

Thank you Edward and Mike. I have come close to death by another's hands before and the only thing I could think of at the moment was calling on the name of Jesus in whom released me from my attacker. I now see the difference between death by an attacker and or dying a martyr's death. Thank you