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  • The Gospel of Jesus Christ

    Heard of "The Gospel"? Want to know more?

    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

Tasted Death for every Man !

Hopeful

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The criteria are whomever is His good pleasure to save. Nothing more. He's God, He can do that - He is not compelled to explain or justify His actions or decisions. See my reply to jaybo - the Romans part of it.
I do see from your perspective, but have one question.
How does a man know if he is a chosen one?
Will he have to wait until the day of judgement?
 

Hopeful

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Where do you get this from? Does God sit on His throne counting every two hundredth man and says, OK I will save him, but the 199th or 201 I reject?
You should check the context from whence I wrote.
I was trying to figure out Roger's POV of how God made the decision to allow only some to be converted and saved.
 

Hopeful

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well, logically speaking then, according to you, it takes the power of God, plus, some other power that He is unable to provide, even though it says that IT is the power of God unto salvation. How do you define Gospel in this context - what is it?
The "power" He is unable to provide, is to force us to accept and live the salvation He offers us.
It is our choice.
Do you think He would have sent His Son to suffer and die, if He just picked at random who would have their names in the book of life?
 

rogerg

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The "power" He is unable to provide, is to force us to accept and live the salvation He offers us.
It is our choice.
I disagree. If He didn't and it was left to us, no one would become saved. Read
1Co 1:30 below. Note the "is made".

Do you think He would have sent His Son to suffer and die, if He just picked at random who would have their names in the book of life?
Who said it was random? I didn't! I said that those to be saved He chooses for His own reasons, purposes, and good pleasure, and He is not compelled to share those with us. Even if it was random, that would be God's prerogative to do, since He paid the price for their salvation, but we just don't know what His criteria are (at least I don't). However, God did choose to share with us that it is His choice alone with no apologies.

[1Co 1:27-31 KJV]
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, [yea], and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
 

rogerg

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I do see from your perspective, but have one question.
How does a man know if he is a chosen one?
Will he have to wait until the day of judgement?
No. In my opinion a major (but not only) indication is when we come to understand, and truly believe in our heart, that Jesus alone is the Saviour. When that happens is up to God
 

rogerg

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Hearing the Gospel preached is the power of God unto salvation.


For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. Romans 1:16

I thought I would include the following to clarify my POV. I'm not entirely sure that I perceive your as I asked you a question but did not see a reply but could have missed it.
The "who believes" in the verse above, represents (and this is important) those already saved, because according to v18, it is only they who can understand Christ and the cross as being the power of God. To the unsaved it is foolishness and so has no meaning to them. The power of God includes both Christ (v24) and the cross (v18) - it is of both. Our faith cannot stand (nor could it be a true faith), should it be from the wisdom or abilities of man (v25 below), but only as a gift given directly by God and made possible by Christ and the cross, but not as from ourselves.

Hope this make sense - kind of tired.

[1Co 1:18,24, 25 KJV]
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. ...
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
 

brightfame52

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I thought I would include the following to clarify my POV. I'm not entirely sure that I perceive your as I asked you a question but did not see a reply but could have missed it.
The "who believes" in the verse above, represents (and this is important) those already saved, because according to v18, it is only they who can understand Christ and the cross as being the power of God. To the unsaved it is foolishness and so has no meaning to them. The power of God includes both Christ (v24) and the cross (v18) - it is of both. Our faith cannot stand (nor could it be a true faith), should it be from the wisdom or abilities of man (v25 below), but only as a gift given directly by God and made possible by Christ and the cross, but not as from ourselves.

Hope this make sense - kind of tired.

[1Co 1:18,24, 25 KJV]
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. ...
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
Yes, "us who are saved" is actually us who are being saved, in the passive voice, and they are in a saved state[spiritually] so its to them who God is saving, and who are in a saved state, that the Gospel is the power of God.
 

JLB

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God saves who He choose to of His own volition, when He wants to, and the result of that is belief is given, not the reverse. It is impossible to have true faith before salvation

Please post the scripture that teaches us God saves those who do not believe the Gospel.
 

JLB

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I thought I would include the following to clarify my POV. I'm not entirely sure that I perceive your as I asked you a question but did not see a reply but could have missed it.
The "who believes" in the verse above, represents (and this is important) those already saved, because according to v18, it is only they who can understand Christ and the cross as being the power of God. To the unsaved it is foolishness and so has no meaning to them. The power of God includes both Christ (v24) and the cross (v18) - it is of both. Our faith cannot stand (nor could it be a true faith), should it be from the wisdom or abilities of man (v25 below), but only as a gift given directly by God and made possible by Christ and the cross, but not as from ourselves.

Hope this make sense - kind of tired.

[1Co 1:18,24, 25 KJV]
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. ...
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

Makes no sense.


Please post the chapter and verse that teaches us God saves those who do not believe the Gospel.

The Gospel is “the power of God unto salvation for those who believe”.


Only those who believe the Gospel are saved.


As Paul goes on to write in Romans —

….And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?



Your teaching a “Christ-less” Salvation, whereby God just decides to save people apart from hearing and believe the message of salvation that is found in Christ; the Gospel of Jesus Christ






JLB
 

brightfame52

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The every man in Heb 2:9 who Christ tasted death for, is not every man without exception as its falsely proclaimed by many, but its every man of the heirs of salvation Heb 1:14

14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Heb 6:17

17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:
 

JLB

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The every man in Heb 2:9 who Christ tasted death for, is not every man without exception as its falsely proclaimed by many, but its every man of the heirs of salvation Heb 1:14

14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Heb 6:17

17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:


Yes God foreknew who would believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ and sends His angels as ministering spirits to them.


What does that have to do with the claim that God saves people apart from hearing and believing the Gospel of Jesus Christ?


And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?


Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
Acts 4:12



Your “Christless” salvation message is no longer allowed to be taught in this Forum.






JLB
 

for_his_glory

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You should check the context from whence I wrote.
I was trying to figure out Roger's POV of how God made the decision to allow only some to be converted and saved.
It matters not what your context was, but that I only asked you where you find that God only chooses every 200th person. If this is not found in scripture then please state it is only your opinion.
 

for_his_glory

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Not sure what you're talking about regarding the verse you included. That verse pertains to spiritual thiefs and robbers, not to the acquiring of salvation

The things you said don't get you saved the result from becoming saved.
There is no teaching in scripture about a Christless salvation so I can only assume since you believe this then you climbed up another way according to that scripture.
 

for_his_glory

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This is easy to settle. Is Christ the Saviour or is He not?
If you want to refute that of what God has already said that are spiritual sins then that is on you.

Without God's grace through faith that is Christ Jesus who is the Savior of the world there would be no salvation.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
 

for_his_glory

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Then it can't be the power of God to salvation, can it - can't have it both ways at the same time? If it is God's power, then all who hear it must be saved. No way around that conclusion
God is not going to force anyone to believe even after hearing. It takes faith by God's grace that is extended to all who will believe and receive Jesus as their Lord and Savior by confessing Him to be the Son of God.

Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
 

for_his_glory

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Well, that would make Christ not the Saviour should anything else besides Christ, being required - simple. There can't be any ifs, ands or buts, behind the answer. If He is, then He is, period.
Do you believe if it were not for the sacrifice of Christ that anyone could be saved in another way?
 

for_his_glory

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God saves who He choose to of His own volition, when He wants to, and the result of that is belief is given, not the reverse. It is impossible to have true faith before salvation
You really need to show us this with scripture as this is only what you have been indoctrinated with that comes against scripture.

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Rom 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
 

for_his_glory

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The every man in Heb 2:9 who Christ tasted death for, is not every man without exception as its falsely proclaimed by many, but its every man of the heirs of salvation Heb 1:14

14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Heb 6:17

17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:
And just how do they become heirs if they have not called upon God for their very salvation that only comes by faith as they hear the word of God. One has to be Spiritually born again from above in order to become heirs to the kingdom of God.

Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
 

jaybo

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I'd just like to add, to a perfect post, that babies are not responsible for having the sin nature. It is not imputed to them, as you've stated.

We become responsible for our sins when we reach the age of reason...whatever that may be, which is different for each person.

And some never reach this age for mentally challenged reasons.
God loves those too, God loves all His creation because He IS love.
1 John 4:8
According to Judaism we reach the age of reason at 13. That is the age one is at when Bar Mitzvah (and Bas Mitzvah) occur and one becomes full member of the congregation.
 
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