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The Absolute Equality of Jesus Christ With God The Father

SolaScriptura

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“και παν κτισμα ο εστιν εν τω ουρανω και εν τη γη και υποκατω της γης και επι της θαλασσης α εστιν και τα εν αυτοις παντα ηκουσα λεγοντας τω καθημενω επι του θρονου και τω αρνιω η ευλογια και η τιμη και η δοξα και το κρατος εις τους αιωνας των αιωνων” (Revelation 5:13-14)

"And ALL of the Creation, which is in the heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and on the sea, and all things that are in them, heard I saying, to Him Who sits on the throne, and unto the Lamb, be ALL the Blessing, and ALL the Honour, and ALL the Glory, and ALL the Might, for ever and ever. And the four living creatures said, Amen. And the elders fell down and worshipped." (so emphasized in the Greek)

Note the words, “τω καθημενω επι του θρονου και τω αρνιω”, “to Him Who sits on the throne AND to the Lamb”, where the Greek conjunction, “και”, is used for “sameness”, with absolute equality. Thus, we read in chapter 22, verse 1: “And he showed me a river of water of life, bright as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb”. The Greek here is very important, “του θρονου του θεου και του αρνιου”, where “του θρονου” (the throne), is in the singular number. God and the Lamb, as “distinct” Persons, are united in Their Rule. This absolute unity, can also be seen in chapter 11:15, “And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall Reign for ever and ever”. Note the end, “He shall Reign”, which in the Greek is, “βασιλευσει”, which is in the singular number. It can refer to “His Christ”, or, to “our Lord and of His Christ”, the latter no doubt being the correct meaning, as seen from the main passage from chapter 5, and 22. Let no one suppose that there is some “subordination” with Jesus Christ to the Father, post-Incarnation, as this is proven as completely wrong from these passages in Revelation.

These passages are some of the strongest and clearest in the Holy Bible, that speak of the Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ. It also shows His equality with the Father, and further teaches that there are Two Persons in Scripture, Who are equally Almighty God. We read, "to Him Who (Gk, toi) sits on the throne, and to the (Gk, toi) Lamb". Where it is very clear from the Greek text, that two separate Persons are spoken of, God the Father, and God the Son (the Lamb).

Verse 13 speaks of "every created thing which is in the heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and on the sea, and all things that are in them", which is nothing less than the entirety of the human race, "every created thing", with no exceptions. Here the entire universe ascribes "THE blessing, and THE honour, and THE glory, and THE Might", where in the Greek text, the "article [the]" is repeated with each word, signifying, "whatever blessing, and honour, and glory, and might", there is in the entire universe, as in ALL blessings, honour, glory, might, is here said to belong "to Him that sits on the throne", which is God the Father in this case. So, let us be clear here what is being taught; that, ALL, "THE blessing, and ALL THE honour, and ALL THE glory, and ALL THE might", are said EQUALLY to belong to God the Father, and God the Son. In the Book of Isaiah we read these words: "to whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like? (46:5), and in 42:8, "I am Jehovah, that is my name; and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise unto graven images". It is very clear from these passages, that Almighty God would never "share" His glory, praise with another, nor can He ever be compared with, or made equal with anyone. And yet, in the passage in Revelation, this is exactly what the Apostle John, writing under the guiding of the Holy Spirit, has done! It would be nothing short of blasphemy, for the Apostle John, to have written as he did in Revelation 5:13-14, IF, Jesus Christ was a created being, as some, like the Jehovah's Witnesses falsely teach. How can the Almighty Creator God, be EVER "share" the " blessings, and honour, and glory, and might", with a someone Whom He created? Can the Creator be said to be EQUAL with His creation, IF as some blaspheme, that Jesus is a created being? Jesus Himself says in the Gospel of John, "My Father works until now, and I work" (5:17), which the Jews rightly understood as Jesus "making Himself equal (Gk, isos, "the same in quality". J H Thayer, Greek-English lexicon; "to claim for one's self the nature, rank, authority, which belongs to God, Jn. v.18", p.307. Thayer was a Unitarian, who, like the Jehovah's Witnesses, denied the Deity of Jesus Christ) to God (toi theoi)", because He had called God, "His OWN Father" (verse 18). Thus is their relationship. And in verse 23, Jesus says something that ONLY someone who was coequal to the Father could ever have said. We read: "That everyone (all humans) should honour (Gk, time, "worship, esteem, honour") the Son, even as (Gk, kathos, "just as, even as", indicating comparision) they honour the Father. He that does not honour the Son, does not honour the Father Who sent Him". Can a created being demand that SAME honour that God the Father is given? Regardless of highly exalted Jesus Christ might have been, if He were a created being, there is NO way that He could ever have used language as He does here, without blaspheming. Even as the Incarnate Son of God, Jesus Christ demanded EQUAL “HONOUR” with the Father, though He says that “The Father is greater than I” (John 14:28). Here is indeed a Great Mystery!

John then goes on to say in verse 14, “And the elders fell down and worshipped”. This “worship” is here directed to BOTH , “to Him Who sits on the throne, AND unto the Lamb”, which further shows that Jesus Christ, post-Incarnation, is 100% COEQUAL, with God the Father, and in the Godhead, His Deity is no “less”, in any way, than the Father. The fact that BOTH are WORSHIPPED TOGETHER, can only be understood to Their being also COESSENTIAL

Also, in Revelation 1:17, and 2:8, we read of Jesus Christ say of Himself, that He is, "the first and the last". Thayer says of the words, "ho protos kai ho eschatos, i.e. the eternal One" (page, 554). Which can ONLY mean that Jesus Christ is UNCREATED, and ETERNAL. Add to this the words of Jesus Christ in chapter 22, “I am THE Alpha and THE Omega, THE First and THE Last, THE Beginning and THE End”. In Isaiah 44:6, we read, “Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: “I am THE First and I am THE Last; besides me there is no god”. It is not only impossible for Jesus to have said these words about Himself, IF, as some teach, that He is no more than a mere “created” being, but, it would also be the highest form of blasphemy. However, we are confident from what we read in the Infallible Word of God, that there can be no doubt, that Jesus Christ, IS indeed ALMIGHTY GOD, without beginning or end, as are God the Father, and God the Holy Spirit.


Jesus Christ IS The Great I AM, Yahweh, Almighty God.
 

for_his_glory

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Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.


1. God is Spirit, John 4:24, not flesh and blood and in the OT either spoke directly to the prophets or by angels and also various objects like a burning bush or an ass for example. Between the OT and NT God was silent towards Israel as when they returned to Israel from the Babylonian captivity they came back as merchants and not shepherds as they were disobedient to God going after other gods, Book of Malachi.

2. Jesus being the very Spirit of God before the foundation of the world as He and the Father are one was prophesied by the Prophets in the OT and spoken of by John the baptist in the NT as John being the forerunner of Christ calling all to repent. As foretold Christ did come as the word of God made flesh (skin, bone, blood) to be that light that shines in darkness. He came as redeemer Savior through Gods grace as Christ is our faith that all can repent of their sins and have eternal life with the Father to all who will believe in Him as Lord and Savior. John 1:1-4; 1 Peter 1:13-21

3. After the sacrifice of Christ God raised Him from the grave and as He had to ascend back up to heaven the promise was that He would never leave us or forsake us as when He ascended He sent down the Holy Spirit (Spirit of God) to indwell all who will believe in Christ and His finished works on the cross. In the OT Gods Spirit fell on them for a time and purpose under heaven. Now we are indwelled with that power and authority through Gods grace that the Holy Spirit now works in us and through us teaching all things God wants us to learn. All three are Spiritual and Spiritual awakenings in us to know the will of God and walk in His statures. John 16:7-15

Ephesians 4: 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word (Jesus), and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit as all three coequal Gods Spirit.

Jesus being the right arm of God. Isaiah 53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? 2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. 3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Jesus is the word of God. John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

Jesus is word, light and life that is God come in the flesh. John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Gods Holy Spirit has come to indwell us and teach us. John 14: 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
 

tigger 2

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“και παν κτισμα ο εστιν εν τω ουρανω και εν τη γη και υποκατω της γης και επι της θαλασσης α εστιν και τα εν αυτοις παντα ηκουσα λεγοντας τω καθημενω επι του θρονου και τω αρνιω η ευλογια και η τιμη και η δοξα και το κρατος εις τους αιωνας των αιωνων” (Revelation 5:13-14)

"And ALL of the Creation, which is in the heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and on the sea, and all things that are in them, heard I saying, to Him Who sits on the throne, and unto the Lamb, be ALL the Blessing, and ALL the Honour, and ALL the Glory, and ALL the Might, for ever and ever. And the four living creatures said, Amen. And the elders fell down and worshipped." (so emphasized in the Greek)

Note the words, “τω καθημενω επι του θρονου και τω αρνιω”, “to Him Who sits on the throne AND to the Lamb”, where the Greek conjunction, “και”, is used for “sameness”, with absolute equality. Thus, we read in chapter 22, verse 1: “And he showed me a river of water of life, bright as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb”. The Greek here is very important, “του θρονου του θεου και του αρνιου”, where “του θρονου” (the throne), is in the singular number. God and the Lamb, as “distinct” Persons, are united in Their Rule. This absolute unity, can also be seen in chapter 11:15, “And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall Reign for ever and ever”. Note the end, “He shall Reign”, which in the Greek is, “βασιλευσει”, which is in the singular number. It can refer to “His Christ”, or, to “our Lord and of His Christ”, the latter no doubt being the correct meaning, as seen from the main passage from chapter 5, and 22. Let no one suppose that there is some “subordination” with Jesus Christ to the Father, post-Incarnation, as this is proven as completely wrong from these passages in Revelation.

These passages are some of the strongest and clearest in the Holy Bible, that speak of the Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ. It also shows His equality with the Father, and further teaches that there are Two Persons in Scripture, Who are equally Almighty God. We read, "to Him Who (Gk, toi) sits on the throne, and to the (Gk, toi) Lamb". Where it is very clear from the Greek text, that two separate Persons are spoken of, God the Father, and God the Son (the Lamb).

Verse 13 speaks of "every created thing which is in the heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and on the sea, and all things that are in them", which is nothing less than the entirety of the human race, "every created thing", with no exceptions. Here the entire universe ascribes "THE blessing, and THE honour, and THE glory, and THE Might", where in the Greek text, the "article [the]" is repeated with each word, signifying, "whatever blessing, and honour, and glory, and might", there is in the entire universe, as in ALL blessings, honour, glory, might, is here said to belong "to Him that sits on the throne", which is God the Father in this case. So, let us be clear here what is being taught; that, ALL, "THE blessing, and ALL THE honour, and ALL THE glory, and ALL THE might", are said EQUALLY to belong to God the Father, and God the Son. In the Book of Isaiah we read these words: "to whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like? (46:5), and in 42:8, "I am Jehovah, that is my name; and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise unto graven images". It is very clear from these passages, that Almighty God would never "share" His glory, praise with another, nor can He ever be compared with, or made equal with anyone. And yet, in the passage in Revelation, this is exactly what the Apostle John, writing under the guiding of the Holy Spirit, has done! It would be nothing short of blasphemy, for the Apostle John, to have written as he did in Revelation 5:13-14, IF, Jesus Christ was a created being, as some, like the Jehovah's Witnesses falsely teach. How can the Almighty Creator God, be EVER "share" the " blessings, and honour, and glory, and might", with a someone Whom He created? Can the Creator be said to be EQUAL with His creation, IF as some blaspheme, that Jesus is a created being? Jesus Himself says in the Gospel of John, "My Father works until now, and I work" (5:17), which the Jews rightly understood as Jesus "making Himself equal (Gk, isos, "the same in quality". J H Thayer, Greek-English lexicon; "to claim for one's self the nature, rank, authority, which belongs to God, Jn. v.18", p.307. Thayer was a Unitarian, who, like the Jehovah's Witnesses, denied the Deity of Jesus Christ) to God (toi theoi)", because He had called God, "His OWN Father" (verse 18). Thus is their relationship. And in verse 23, Jesus says something that ONLY someone who was coequal to the Father could ever have said. We read: "That everyone (all humans) should honour (Gk, time, "worship, esteem, honour") the Son, even as (Gk, kathos, "just as, even as", indicating comparision) they honour the Father. He that does not honour the Son, does not honour the Father Who sent Him". Can a created being demand that SAME honour that God the Father is given? Regardless of highly exalted Jesus Christ might have been, if He were a created being, there is NO way that He could ever have used language as He does here, without blaspheming. Even as the Incarnate Son of God, Jesus Christ demanded EQUAL “HONOUR” with the Father, though He says that “The Father is greater than I” (John 14:28). Here is indeed a Great Mystery!

John then goes on to say in verse 14, “And the elders fell down and worshipped”. This “worship” is here directed to BOTH , “to Him Who sits on the throne, AND unto the Lamb”, which further shows that Jesus Christ, post-Incarnation, is 100% COEQUAL, with God the Father, and in the Godhead, His Deity is no “less”, in any way, than the Father. The fact that BOTH are WORSHIPPED TOGETHER, can only be understood to Their being also COESSENTIAL

Also, in Revelation 1:17, and 2:8, we read of Jesus Christ say of Himself, that He is, "the first and the last". Thayer says of the words, "ho protos kai ho eschatos, i.e. the eternal One" (page, 554). Which can ONLY mean that Jesus Christ is UNCREATED, and ETERNAL. Add to this the words of Jesus Christ in chapter 22, “I am THE Alpha and THE Omega, THE First and THE Last, THE Beginning and THE End”. In Isaiah 44:6, we read, “Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: “I am THE First and I am THE Last; besides me there is no god”. It is not only impossible for Jesus to have said these words about Himself, IF, as some teach, that He is no more than a mere “created” being, but, it would also be the highest form of blasphemy. However, we are confident from what we read in the Infallible Word of God, that there can be no doubt, that Jesus Christ, IS indeed ALMIGHTY GOD, without beginning or end, as are God the Father, and God the Holy Spirit.


Jesus Christ IS The Great I AM, Yahweh, Almighty God.

The OP says: “to Him Who sits on the throne, and unto the Lamb, be ALL the Blessing, and ALL the Honour, and ALL the Glory, and ALL the Might, for ever and ever.”

But there is no Greek word meaning “ALL” in the places you have emphasized. Even the NKJV in your link for this verse shows this. Your explanation does not make it so.

….…………………………………..

OP: “We read, "to Him Who (Gk, toi) sits on the throne, and to the (Gk, toi) Lamb". Where it is very clear from the Greek text, that two separate Persons are spoken of, God the Father, and God the Son (the Lamb).”

Then that must mean that king David is Almighty God:

1 Chron. 29:20 tells us, “And all the assembly blessed Jehovah, the God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads and worshiped [shachah] Jehovah and the king [David].” - ASV - cf. Septuagint (proskuneo)

….………………………….

"My Father works until now, and I work" (5:17), which the Jews rightly understood as Jesus "making Himself equal (Gk, isos, "the same in quality". J H Thayer, Greek-English lexicon; "to claim for one's self the nature, rank, authority, which belongs to God, Jn. v.18", p.307. Thayer was a Unitarian, who, like the Jehovah's Witnesses, denied the Deity of Jesus Christ) to God (toi theoi)”

I don’t know if Thayer was Unitarian or not. I do know that he was highly respected as an honest, knowledgeable Professor of the Greek language. The real point, however, is that Thayer’s Lexicon is not his own thoughts, but is a translation of trinitarian Prof. Grimm’s German work. When Thayer occasionally adds to this translation, he includes it in brackets (pp. xii and xxiv.)

Prof. Grimm wrote (as translated) “equal in quality OR quantity” and referring to John 5:18 specifically, “to claim for one’s self the nature, rank, authority, which belong to God, Jn 5:18”. It is obvious from context that the Jews were accusing Jesus (who had just healed a person on the Sabbath) of claiming the authority of God (to change the law as they had improperly amended it).

….………………………………………….

To be Continued
 

tigger 2

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OP: Also, in Revelation 1:17, and 2:8, we read of Jesus Christ say of Himself, that He is, "the first and the last". Thayer says of the words, "ho protos kai ho eschatos, i.e. the eternal One" (page, 554). Which can ONLY mean that Jesus Christ is UNCREATED, and ETERNAL. Add to this the words of Jesus Christ in chapter 22, “I am THE Alpha and THE Omega, THE First and THE Last, THE Beginning and THE End”.

“First and Last” (“only”) is a phrase that can be applied in various ways. “Alpha and Omega” may be more properly understood as a title.

For example, Rev. 1:17 and 2:8 are often not capitalized in many Bibles (as a title would be), whereas, Rev. 1:8 does have capitalized “Alpha and Omega” which could indicate a title. Reading 1:17 and 2:8 in context shows Jesus is referring to his being the first and the last (only one) to be resurrected by the Father to eternal life.

Furthermore, Rev. 1:8 refers to ho theos (the God) and the Almighty. Both of those terms refer to God Almighty (not Jesus). And yes, God was considered to be coming to the aid of His people and at times His people would even say “God is with us.”

"the words of Jesus Christ in chapter 22, “I am THE Alpha and THE Omega, THE First and THE Last, THE Beginning and THE End”.

In Rev. 22 we find that the words “I am the Alpha and Omega” are assigned to someone other than Jesus in many Bibles. First notice Rev. 1:8, 9. Since there was no punctuation in the ancient Greek manuscripts, translators add the punctuation they prefer. So Rev. 1:8, 9 could show that John is the A and O!

ASV
I am the Alpha and the Omega, saith the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty. 9 I John, your brother and partaker with you in the tribulation and kingdom and [a]patience which are in Jesus, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.

One thing helps show the intended meaning of Rev. 1:8, 9, for example. Although it is very common that the words of one speaker slide right into those of another speaker (e.g., Is. 10:4, 7), it also happens that sometimes the writer identifies the new speaker. As we see in Daniel, for example, Daniel nearly always identifies himself as the new speaker when he uses the words “I, Daniel” whenever it might be confusing to the reader (especially after a different person has been speaking) - Dan. 7:15, 28; 8:15, 27; 12:5. If we then examine Revelation (which is recognized as being similar to, patterned after, and frequently referring to, the Book of Daniel), we find that John also uses this technique. “I, John” identifies a new speaker in every instance John uses it: Rev. 1:9; 22:8. So Rev. 1:9 is merely the statement of a new speaker.

Is Jesus ‘Alpha and Omega’ in Rev. 22?

Now look at Rev. 22:8-16. John is identified as the speaker in 22:8. The angel speaks in (:9). The angel apparently continues speaking in (:10). The angel may be still speaking in (:11) --- or it could be John or even someone else (as implied in verse 10 in the NAB, 1970 ed.).

Now is the angel still speaking in (:12) or is it God, or is it Jesus, or even John? There is simply no way of telling who the speaker is from any of the early Bible manuscripts. It’s entirely a matter of translator’s choice. Some translators have decided it is the angel who continues to speak, and they punctuate it accordingly. So the NASB, JB, and NJB use quotation marks to show that these are all words spoken by the angel. [2]

However, the NKJV, NEB, REB, RSV, and NRSV show by their use of quotation marks that someone else is now speaking in verse 12. Most Bibles indicate that the person who spoke verse 12 (whether God, angel, Jesus, or John) also spoke verse 13 (“I am Alpha and Omega”).

Now the big question is: Is it clear that the speaker of verses 12 and 13 continues to speak? Some Bibles indicate this. But other highly respected trinitarian translations do not!

The ESV; ISV; LEB; MEV; MOUNCE; NAB (2010 ed.); NASB; NEB; NKJV; NLT; NRSV; REB; RSV; 21st Century King James Version; TEV; and WE show (by quotation marks and indenting) that Rev. 22:14 and 15 are not the words of the speaker of verses 12 and 13 but are John’s words. (The Jerusalem Bible; the NJB; and Moffatt show us that the angel spoke all the words from verse 10 through verse 15.) Then they show Jesus as a new speaker beginning to speak in verse 16.

So, if you must insist that the person speaking just before verse 16 is the same person who is speaking in verse 16, then, according to the trinitarian ESV; ISV; LEB; MEV; MOUNCE; NAB (2010 ed.); NASB; NEB; NKJV; NLT; NRSV; REB; RSV; 21st Century King James Version, TEV; and WE , you are saying John is Jesus!!! (According to the JB and NJB you would be insisting that the angel is Jesus!)

And, just as the use of “I, John” indicated a new speaker in Revelation 1:9, so does the only other such usage in that same book. Yes, Rev. 22:16 - “I, Jesus” also introduces a new speaker. This means, of course, that the previous statement (“I am the Alpha and Omega”) was made by someone else!

Even the KJV translators have shown by their use of the word “his” in verse 14 that they didn’t mean that Jesus was the same speaker as the Alpha and Omega. The speaker of verse 13 is Almighty God. The comment in verse 14 of these Bibles (as literally translated from the Received Text) explains the importance of doing “His Commandments” (not “My Commandments”)! Therefore the speaker of verse 14 is obviously not God as clearly stated by those Bibles which were translated from the Received Text, e.g., KJV; NKJV; KJIIV; MKJV; Young’s Literal Translation; Webster Bible(by Noah Webster); Revised Webster Bible; and Lamsa’s translation (Holy Bible From the Ancient Eastern Text).

So we can easily see that there is no reason to say Jesus spoke the words recorded at Rev. 22:13 (or the above-named trinitarian Bibles would surely have so translated it!) and, in fact, the context really identifies the speaker as being the same person who spoke at Rev. 1:8, God Almighty, Jehovah, the Father.

The only other use of the title “Alpha and Omega” confirms this understanding.

“And He who sits on the throne said, ‘Behold, I am making all things new.’ .... And He said to me, ‘It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. .... He who overcomes shall inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son.’” - Rev. 21:5-7, NASB.

So Rev. 21:6, 7 confirms the understanding that the Alpha and Omega is the Father, not Jesus.

In short, there is no reason, other than a desire to support the trinity tradition, to believe that Jesus is being called “Alpha and Omega” in Rev. 22. And there is good evidence to believe that it is his Father only who uses this title for himself.
 

tigger 2

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from the OP: Jesus Christ IS The Great I AM, Yahweh, Almighty God.

YHWH (Yahweh, or traditionally, Jehovah) is the only personal name of God (Ps. 83:18, KJV.)

It is used thousands of times throughout the OT for the Most High God. The "name" trinitarians like to use is ehyeh (mistranslated "I Am") and it is found only once as an apparent name for God - Ex. 3:14.

If you look through all the places where Moses has written ehyeh in his writings, You will find that it is everywhere else translated as "I will be" not "I am."


In its commentary to Exodus 3:14, the JPS Tanakh, Jewish Study Bible, Oxford Edition states:

"God's proper name disclosed in the next verse is YHVH (spelled yod-heh-vav-heh. In Heb., in ancient times, the "vav" was pronounced "w"). But here God first tells Moses its meaning; ehyeh-asher-ehyeh, probably best translated as "I will be what I will be" meaning: "My nature will become evident from my actions."

Notice how ehyeh was translated at Ex. 3:14 in the following mostly trinitarian-translated Bibles: Moffatt’s translation - “I WILL BE”; Byington’s - “I WILL BE”; Rotherham’s - “I WILL BECOME”; Concordant Literal Version - “I-SHALL-COME-TO-BE”; Julia Smith’s - “I SHALL BE”; Leeser’s - “I WILL BE”; New World Translation - “I SHALL PROVE TO BE.”

In addition are the following alternate readings in footnotes: American Standard Version - “I WILL BE”; NIV Study Bible - “I WILL BE”; Revised Standard Version - “I WILL BE”; New Revised Standard Version - “I WILL BE”; New English Bible - “I WILL BE”; Revised English Bible - “I WILL BE”; Living Bible - “I WILL BE”; Good News Bible - “I WILL BE”; English Standard Version - "I WILL BE" .

And even one of the earliest English translations renders it:

14 God saide vnto Moses: I wyl be what I wyll be. And he sayde: Thus shalt thou saye vnto ye children of Israel: I wyl be hath sent me vnto you. - Miles Coverdale Bible (1535).

Notice too what the Encyclopedia Britannica had to say on this subject:

“The writer of Exodus 3:14-15 ... explains it [the meaning of God’s name] by the phrase EHYEH asher EHYEH (Ex. iii., 14); this can be translated ‘I am that I am’ or more exactly ‘I am wont to be that which I am wont to be’ or ‘I will be that which I will be.’” - p. 995, 14th ed., v. 12.

And among the most important of the early translations of the Hebrew Bible are the Greek versions of the Jewish Aquila and Theodotion in the second century A.D. [100’s]

According to Jesus' Words Only it appears that they both have translated the Hebrew ehyeh asher ehyeh of Exodus 3:14a and the ehyeh of 3:14b into Greek as "esomai hos esomai" and "esomai" respectively, which in turn translate into English as "I will be who I will be" and "I will be." -

http://www.jesuswordsonly.com/books/jesuswordssalvation/602-bible-study-on-exodus-3-14-is-it-truly-i-am-that-i-am.html

Further examination cements the truth that “I Am” at John 8:58 (or anywhere else) has nothing to do with Exodus 3:14, and does not constitute a name for God.
 

tigger 2

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The link given in my last post has changed drastically. Here is how it should read now (since I can no longer edit it.):

And among the most important of the early translations of the Hebrew Bible are the Greek versions of the Jewish Aquila and Theodotion in the second century A.D. [100’s]

“The versions of Aquila and Theodotion have ehyeh asher ehyeh and the ehyeh of 3:14b rendered into Greek as ‘esomai hos esomai’ and ’esomai’ respectively, which in turn translate as ‘I will be who I will be’ and ‘I will be’.” - Exodus 3:14 in Early Jewish and Christian Translations | Exodus 3:14 (exodus-314.com)

Further examination cements the truth that “I Am” at John 8:58 (or anywhere else) has nothing to do with Exodus 3:14, and does not constitute a name for God.
 

SolaScriptura

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The OP says: “to Him Who sits on the throne, and unto the Lamb, be ALL the Blessing, and ALL the Honour, and ALL the Glory, and ALL the Might, for ever and ever.”

But there is no Greek word meaning “ALL” in the places you have emphasized. Even the NKJV in your link for this verse shows this. Your explanation does not make it so.

….…………………………………..

OP: “We read, "to Him Who (Gk, toi) sits on the throne, and to the (Gk, toi) Lamb". Where it is very clear from the Greek text, that two separate Persons are spoken of, God the Father, and God the Son (the Lamb).”

Then that must mean that king David is Almighty God:

1 Chron. 29:20 tells us, “And all the assembly blessed Jehovah, the God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads and worshiped [shachah] Jehovah and the king [David].” - ASV - cf. Septuagint (proskuneo)

….………………………….

"My Father works until now, and I work" (5:17), which the Jews rightly understood as Jesus "making Himself equal (Gk, isos, "the same in quality". J H Thayer, Greek-English lexicon; "to claim for one's self the nature, rank, authority, which belongs to God, Jn. v.18", p.307. Thayer was a Unitarian, who, like the Jehovah's Witnesses, denied the Deity of Jesus Christ) to God (toi theoi)”

I don’t know if Thayer was Unitarian or not. I do know that he was highly respected as an honest, knowledgeable Professor of the Greek language. The real point, however, is that Thayer’s Lexicon is not his own thoughts, but is a translation of trinitarian Prof. Grimm’s German work. When Thayer occasionally adds to this translation, he includes it in brackets (pp. xii and xxiv.)

Prof. Grimm wrote (as translated) “equal in quality OR quantity” and referring to John 5:18 specifically, “to claim for one’s self the nature, rank, authority, which belong to God, Jn 5:18”. It is obvious from context that the Jews were accusing Jesus (who had just healed a person on the Sabbath) of claiming the authority of God (to change the law as they had improperly amended it).

….………………………………………….

To be Continued
In the first place, you will notice in the Greek text in the OP, "η ευλογια και η τιμη και η δοξα και το κρατος", where the Greek article is repeated, as I have made bold. This represents the meaning, that whatever "Blessing and Honour and Glory and Might", there is in the entire universe, ALL is due to both God the Father and Jesus Christ, EQUALLY! Are you saying that God is not worthy of ALL of these?

Secondly, your example from the Book of Chornicles, does not in any way say what you suggest. The Greek here is, "τῷ κυρίῳ καὶ τῷ βασιλεῖ", where the "Lord" and "David" are distinct Persons and the Greek article and "καὶ" shows. The people bowed before their God, and to their earthly King, but none would have ever considered David to be equal to God, or rendered to him the same respect as they did to God. In the case in the Book of Revelation, the language is very clear, as is the teaching of this Book, and elsewhere in the Bible, that Jesus Christ IS COEQUAL to God the Father, because He IS YHWH!

Thirdly, as for John 5:18, we have the use of the Greek adjective "ἴσον", which is here used in the accusative case. The meaning being from the time of Homer, has not changed, "equal in size, strength, or number". This is clear from passages like John 10:28-30, where Jesus says that He and God the Father are the same in, "Protection, Might, Security", "no one can snatch them (the sheep) out of my hand...the Father's hand", because "WE are ONE". Notice in this passage, Jesus places Himself before the Father. "ἴσον" cannot be used for those who are not "equal"!
 

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from the OP: Jesus Christ IS The Great I AM, Yahweh, Almighty God.

YHWH (Yahweh, or traditionally, Jehovah) is the only personal name of God (Ps. 83:18, KJV.)

It is used thousands of times throughout the OT for the Most High God. The "name" trinitarians like to use is ehyeh (mistranslated "I Am") and it is found only once as an apparent name for God - Ex. 3:14.

If you look through all the places where Moses has written ehyeh in his writings, You will find that it is everywhere else translated as "I will be" not "I am."


In its commentary to Exodus 3:14, the JPS Tanakh, Jewish Study Bible, Oxford Edition states:

"God's proper name disclosed in the next verse is YHVH (spelled yod-heh-vav-heh. In Heb., in ancient times, the "vav" was pronounced "w"). But here God first tells Moses its meaning; ehyeh-asher-ehyeh, probably best translated as "I will be what I will be" meaning: "My nature will become evident from my actions."

Notice how ehyeh was translated at Ex. 3:14 in the following mostly trinitarian-translated Bibles: Moffatt’s translation - “I WILL BE”; Byington’s - “I WILL BE”; Rotherham’s - “I WILL BECOME”; Concordant Literal Version - “I-SHALL-COME-TO-BE”; Julia Smith’s - “I SHALL BE”; Leeser’s - “I WILL BE”; New World Translation - “I SHALL PROVE TO BE.”

In addition are the following alternate readings in footnotes: American Standard Version - “I WILL BE”; NIV Study Bible - “I WILL BE”; Revised Standard Version - “I WILL BE”; New Revised Standard Version - “I WILL BE”; New English Bible - “I WILL BE”; Revised English Bible - “I WILL BE”; Living Bible - “I WILL BE”; Good News Bible - “I WILL BE”; English Standard Version - "I WILL BE" .

And even one of the earliest English translations renders it:

14 God saide vnto Moses: I wyl be what I wyll be. And he sayde: Thus shalt thou saye vnto ye children of Israel: I wyl be hath sent me vnto you. - Miles Coverdale Bible (1535).

Notice too what the Encyclopedia Britannica had to say on this subject:

“The writer of Exodus 3:14-15 ... explains it [the meaning of God’s name] by the phrase EHYEH asher EHYEH (Ex. iii., 14); this can be translated ‘I am that I am’ or more exactly ‘I am wont to be that which I am wont to be’ or ‘I will be that which I will be.’” - p. 995, 14th ed., v. 12.

And among the most important of the early translations of the Hebrew Bible are the Greek versions of the Jewish Aquila and Theodotion in the second century A.D. [100’s]

According to Jesus' Words Only it appears that they both have translated the Hebrew ehyeh asher ehyeh of Exodus 3:14a and the ehyeh of 3:14b into Greek as "esomai hos esomai" and "esomai" respectively, which in turn translate into English as "I will be who I will be" and "I will be." -

http://www.jesuswordsonly.com/books/jesuswordssalvation/602-bible-study-on-exodus-3-14-is-it-truly-i-am-that-i-am.html

Further examination cements the truth that “I Am” at John 8:58 (or anywhere else) has nothing to do with Exodus 3:14, and does not constitute a name for God.

You left out two important Jewish works:

I-Am-Who-I Am,” (Encyclopaedia Judaica). And, " And God said unto Moses: ‘I AM THAT I AM’; and He said: ‘Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel: I AM hath sent me unto you.’" (The Jewish Publication Society of America, The Holy Scriptures according to the Masoretic Text ).

You will also notice that the Greek Old Testament (LXX), which you refer to elsewhere, reads, "Ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν", which is literally, "I am He Who Exists", or "I am the Eternal One". Because the Jews saw the reference of Jesus Christ in John 8:58, where He says, "πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι ἐγὼ εἰμί", literally, "before Abraham came into existence, I AM". The contrast between, " γενέσθαι" (was), that is, "began to be" of Abraham; and " ἐγὼ εἰμί" the "timeless existence" of Jesus, is very important. The later Jewish Greek Old Testaments, that of Aquila in the first half of this century. And then towards the end of this century, another was made by Theodotion, they changed the menaing, by rendering the Hebrew, "“εσομαι (ὃς) εσομαι”, which is the future of “εἰμι”, “I will be Who I will be”, so as to remove any connection between what Jesus says in John 8, to Exodus 3:14.

In Exodus chapter 3, we read in verse 2, " And the Angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush". Then, in verse 4 we read, " So when the Lord saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”". And further, " Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God." (verse 6). Here we read that it was "The Angel (or "One sent", "Messenger"), Who appeared to Moses "in the bush". Then "Yahweh" saw that Moses turned to take a closer look, and "Elohim" called to Moses "from the middle of the bush", and identifies Himself as, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob”. The Eternal God. It should be noted, that since this Person, "The Angel" is said to be "of the Lord", He must be "distinct" from "the Lord", Who would have "sent" Him on this mission
 

SolaScriptura

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The link given in my last post has changed drastically. Here is how it should read now (since I can no longer edit it.):

And among the most important of the early translations of the Hebrew Bible are the Greek versions of the Jewish Aquila and Theodotion in the second century A.D. [100’s]

“The versions of Aquila and Theodotion have ehyeh asher ehyeh and the ehyeh of 3:14b rendered into Greek as ‘esomai hos esomai’ and ’esomai’ respectively, which in turn translate as ‘I will be who I will be’ and ‘I will be’.” - Exodus 3:14 in Early Jewish and Christian Translations | Exodus 3:14 (exodus-314.com)

Further examination cements the truth that “I Am” at John 8:58 (or anywhere else) has nothing to do with Exodus 3:14, and does not constitute a name for God.

it appears from your arguments, that you must be a Jehovah's Witness, or like them? are you? This would help a great deal.
 

tigger 2

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SS writes:
In the first place, you will notice in the Greek text in the OP, "η ευλογια και η τιμη και η δοξα και το κρατος", where the Greek article is repeated, as I have made bold. This represents the meaning, that whatever "Blessing and Honour and Glory and Might", there is in the entire universe, ALL is due to both God the Father and Jesus Christ, EQUALLY! Are you saying that God is not worthy of ALL of these?

Secondly, your example from the Book of Chornicles, does not in any way say what you suggest. The Greek here is, "τῷ κυρίῳ καὶ τῷ βασιλεῖ", where the "Lord" and "David" are distinct Persons and the Greek article and "καὶ" shows. The people bowed before their God, and to their earthly King, but none would have ever considered David to be equal to God, or rendered to him the same respect as they did to God. In the case in the Book of Revelation, the language is very clear, as is the teaching of this Book, and elsewhere in the Bible, that Jesus Christ IS COEQUAL to God the Father, because He IS YHWH!

......................................................
1. Certainly God is worthy of ALL. However the scripture does not say that. Unless you have evidence for your theory that the definite article clearly intends such a meaning in a case like this, I cannot accept it.

2. I am not referring to the Septuagint, but the basis for the OT in our Bibles - The Hebrew OT text.
1 Chron. 29:20 does not have the article before YHWH. It should probably not have been translated in Greek as "the Lord." Nevertheless, the point is not that they are two separate persons but that they both are being worshiped together. This is simply an example which shows your

example does not say what you say it does:
"We read, "to Him Who (Gk, toi) sits on the throne, and to the (Gk, toi) Lamb". Where it is very clear from the Greek text, that two separate Persons are spoken of, God the Father, and God the Son (the Lamb)."

The one who sits on the throne is God throughout Revelation. "And to the Lamb" indicates that it is not seated on the throne and is not God. Nowhere in scripture is Jesus called "God the Son."
But, unlike the Son of God, the one true God is frequently called “God the Father” and ho theos (“the God” in Greek).

3.
Thirdly, as for John 5:18, we have the use of the Greek adjective "ἴσον", which is here used in the accusative case. The meaning being from the time of Homer, has not changed, "equal in size, strength, or number". This is clear from passages like John 10:28-30, where Jesus says that He and God the Father are the same in, "Protection, Might, Security", "no one can snatch them (the sheep) out of my hand...the Father's hand", because "WE are ONE". Notice in this passage, Jesus places Himself before the Father. "ἴσον" cannot be used for those who are not "equal"!

The meaning of isos (ison) is clearly not as restrictive as you would like it to be.

A careful study of the scriptural uses of this word not only shows that it means an external likeness but that it may even be limited to a likeness of only one aspect of the original .

Isos (isa, neut.) “ἴσος ... prob. from 1492 [eido] (through the idea of seeming); similar (in amount or kind)” - Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible.

The trinitarian reference work The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, Vol. 2, pp. 496, 497, states:

“Although it is impossible to make a clear and universally applicable differentiation between the two word-groups, as they are often interchangeable, in general the isos group [ison] indicates more strongly an external, objectively measurable and established likeness and correspondence, while the words connected with homoios express more substantial, essential likeness .... Although the term does not appear in the NT, a note on homoousios [clearly more closely related to homoios above, not ison] has been appended to the article on homoios in view of the crucial importance of the term in the debates on the person of Christ in the early Church [325 A.D.]. It was opposed by the Arians but included in the Creed of Nicaea (325) asserting that Christ was ‘of the same substance [‘essence,’ ‘nature’] as the Father,’ and as such passed into the Nicene Creed”

So when one thing is described as isa [ison] with another thing, they are still two separate different things. One is merely like or similar to another in a certain aspect.

The very trinitarian The International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia, vol. 2, p. 968, discussing isos, reveals:

“In Mt 20:12, ‘made them equal’ means ‘put them upon the same footing,’ i.e. regarded their brief service as though it were the very same as our long hours of toil. In Lk 20:36 the context restricts the equality to a particular relation.” - Eerdmans Publ., 1984 reprint.

In other words, ison at Matt. 20:12 makes the workers measurably “equal” to one another in only one external aspect: the amount of money they were to receive. They were really very unequal otherwise. Also in Luke 20:36, as the trinitarian reference quoted above tells us, those resurrected humans and God’s angels are not necessarily considered equal in essence in this scripture but in only one particular relation: they will not die again. (See Living Bible.)

And we see the same thing in the OT Septuagint:

“so thy quarrel and enmity shall not depart, but shall be to thee like [isos] death.” - Prov. 25:10, Septuagint Version, Zondervan Publ., 1970, p. 813.

“Quarrel” and “enmity” certainly are not absolutely equal to death (in spite of the fact that some could render this “shall be equal [isos] to death”)! The similarity of the single quality of permanence is the only thing being equated here. The “quarreling” and “enmity” are a never-ending condition, like death itself.

And the use of isa (“equal” at Isaiah 51:23) in the Septuagint: Here God is speaking about those oppressors who commanded Israelites to lie down flat on the ground so they could be walked upon, and the Israelites “made their bodies equal [isa] with the ground” so they could be walked upon. Obviously the Israelites did not make their bodies absolutely equal with the ground thereby making themselves literal ground [or having the ‘absolute sameness of nature’ as the ground also], but merely made them equal in the external attribute of the ground: flatness, lowness, etc.

So, Jesus’ apparent arrogation (in his enemies’ eyes, at any rate) to himself of the authority to “change” God’s Sabbath law (which, of course, he was not really doing) made him appear to them to be claiming to be “equal” to God (in that particular aspect: “changing” God’s Law - only).

As for being "one," I believe you must already know what this means. John 17:22, 23.
 

Hidden In Him

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For example, Rev. 1:17 and 2:8 are often not capitalized in many Bibles (as a title would be), whereas, Rev. 1:8 does have capitalized “Alpha and Omega” which could indicate a title. Reading 1:17 and 2:8 in context shows Jesus is referring to his being the first and the last (only one) to be resurrected by the Father to eternal life....

In Rev. 22 we find that the words “I am the Alpha and Omega” are assigned to someone other than Jesus in many Bibles. First notice Rev. 1:8, 9. Since there was no punctuation in the ancient Greek manuscripts, translators add the punctuation they prefer. So Rev. 1:8, 9 could show that John is the A and O!

Greetings, Tigger.

Too convoluted for me. In Revelation 1:8, we have Ἐγώ εἰμι τὸ Ἄλφα καὶ τὸ Ω, which you contend is a reference to Jesus. In Revelation 22:13, we have ἐγὼ τὸ Ἄλφα καὶ τὸ Ω, ὁ πρῶτος καὶ ὁ ἔσχατος, ἡ ἀρχὴ καὶ τὸ τέλος, which you contend is a reference to the Father. Then in Revelation 2:8, we have Τάδε λέγει ὁ πρῶτος καὶ ὁ ἔσχατος, ὃς ἐγένετο νεκρὸς καὶ ἔζησεν, which can refer to no one else but Jesus, as you yourself agree.

If ὁ πρῶτος καὶ ὁ ἔσχατος refers to the Father in 22:13 and the exact same phrase refers to Jesus in 2:8, and if τὸ Ἄλφα καὶ τὸ Ω refers to the Father in 22:13 and the exact same phrase refers to Jesus in 1:8, then they are One and the Same, and any amount of fancy footwork trying to dance around it is dubious. Jesus and the Father are indeed Two separate Beings, yet with respect to you and I they are One and the Same.
 

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I'm sorry I wasn't clear. I don't believe I said that Rev. 1:8 referred to Jesus. I quoted Rev. 1:8 from the ASV as "I am the Alpha and the Omega, saith the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

I was trying to make a comparison with God speaking at Rev. 1:8 and John speaking at Rev. 1:9 with Rev. 22:13-15 and 22:16. An attempt to show how, without punctuation, a person could try to show that John had spoken the words attributed to God and, therefore was God. And then showing how that was obviously wrong. And then I tried to show how the words spoken in Rev. 22:13-15 were not the words of the speaker of 22:16. In other words, there is very good reason to believe Jesus was not the one saying "I am the Alpha and Omega."

I also intended to show that "the first and the last" is not a title but simply means "only" in some sense. Whereas Alpha and Omega does appear to be a title reserved for God.
 

Hidden In Him

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I'm sorry I wasn't clear. I don't believe I said that Rev. 1:8 referred to Jesus. I quoted Rev. 1:8 from the ASV as "I am the Alpha and the Omega, saith the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

I was trying to make a comparison with God speaking at Rev. 1:8 and John speaking at Rev. 1:9 with Rev. 22:13-15 and 22:16. An attempt to show how, without punctuation, a person could try to show that John had spoken the words attributed to God and, therefore was God. And then showing how that was obviously wrong. And then I tried to show how the words spoken in Rev. 22:13-15 were not the words of the speaker of 22:16. In other words, there is very good reason to believe Jesus was not the one saying "I am the Alpha and Omega."

I also intended to show that "the first and the last" is not a title but simply means "only" in some sense. Whereas Alpha and Omega does appear to be a title reserved for God.

Thank you, Tigger. My apologies for misunderstanding you then. I will take another look at this later and give you a better response. I must say in advance that my general view is that the weaker an argument is the more wording is necessary in order to develop it, and on the surface I would likely still contend that the phrasing present in the three verses points to a simpler explanation. But this is a thought-provoking discussion, and I don't want to pass judgment on your position without fully understanding it accurately.

God bless, and I appreciate the polite correction.
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There are 2 obvious logic holes in your theology:

1. Paul taught that Christ is not equal with His Father:

"But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God." - 1 Cor. 11:3

Paul clearly outlined who is greater than who in succession from the woman to the Father: woman > man > Christ > the Father.

2. Christ is referred to as a Messenger in Malachi. John referred to Christ as the "Logos", or Spokesman. No messenger is equal to the person who sent them, nor has a son ever been their father's equal in terms of the authority they wield. When Christ said His Father was greater than Himself, that's exactly what He meant: the Most High God has always been Jesus' Boss. That may sound strange to trinitarians because they are deceived into thinking of God in terms of equal Beings wielding the same authority, but that's what the Bible teaches: nobody is the Most High God's equal, not even Christ.

Rev. 1:1 further drives this truth home where it reveals the Most High God is the Source of all bible prophecy. Christ can't even relay prophecy to anyone else unless the Most High revealed it to Him and told Him to deliver it first.
 

for_his_glory

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There are 2 obvious logic holes in your theology:

1. Paul taught that Christ is not equal with His Father:

"But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God." - 1 Cor. 11:3

Paul clearly outlined who is greater than who in succession from the woman to the Father: woman > man > Christ > the Father.

2. Christ is referred to as a Messenger in Malachi. John referred to Christ as the "Logos", or Spokesman. No messenger is equal to the person who sent them, nor has a son ever been their father's equal in terms of the authority they wield. When Christ said His Father was greater than Himself, that's exactly what He meant: the Most High God has always been Jesus' Boss. That may sound strange to trinitarians because they are deceived into thinking of God in terms of equal Beings wielding the same authority, but that's what the Bible teaches: nobody is the Most High God's equal, not even Christ.

Rev. 1:1 further drives this truth home where it reveals the Most High God is the Source of all bible prophecy. Christ can't even relay prophecy to anyone else unless the Most High revealed it to Him and told Him to deliver it first.
Scriptures that reference Jesus being referred to as God:
John 1:1-14; John 10:30; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8, 9; 1 John 5:7, 8, 20; 1 Corinthians 8:6; 2 Corinthians 3:17; 13:14; Isaiah 9:6; 44:6; Luke 1:35; Matthew 1:23; 28:19; John 14:16, 17; Genesis 1:1, 2 (cross reference John 1:1-14); 1 Corinthians 12:4-6; Ephesians 4:4-6; Colossians 1:15-17; John 14:9-11; Philippians 2:5-8; Rev 1:8

Scriptures that refer the Holy Spirit as being God:
Psalms 139:7, 8; John 14:17; 16:13; Isaiah 40:13; 1 Corinthians 2:10, 11; Zechariah 4:6; Luke 1:35; Ephesians 4:4-6; Romans 5:5; 1 Corinthians 6:19; Ephesians 1:13; 1 Thessalonians 1:5; Titus 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21; Jude 1:20
 

for_his_glory

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There are 2 obvious logic holes in your theology:

1. Paul taught that Christ is not equal with His Father:

"But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God." - 1 Cor. 11:3

Paul clearly outlined who is greater than who in succession from the woman to the Father: woman > man > Christ > the Father.

2. Christ is referred to as a Messenger in Malachi. John referred to Christ as the "Logos", or Spokesman. No messenger is equal to the person who sent them, nor has a son ever been their father's equal in terms of the authority they wield. When Christ said His Father was greater than Himself, that's exactly what He meant: the Most High God has always been Jesus' Boss. That may sound strange to trinitarians because they are deceived into thinking of God in terms of equal Beings wielding the same authority, but that's what the Bible teaches: nobody is the Most High God's equal, not even Christ.

Rev. 1:1 further drives this truth home where it reveals the Most High God is the Source of all bible prophecy. Christ can't even relay prophecy to anyone else unless the Most High revealed it to Him and told Him to deliver it first.
When you are addressing another member please give their name by clicking on the @ button followed by their screen name. It will look like this but without any spaces @ Desire Of All Nations It makes it easier to see who one is addressing. Thanks.
 

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Why does one need to look beyond John 1:1? " In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

It doesn't say subordinate to God, it says the Word was God.
 

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Why does one need to look beyond John 1:1? " In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

It doesn't say subordinate to God, it says the Word was God.

It takes some effort to learn the honest translation of John 1:1c. It took me many years to finalize my studies of John's use of NT Greek grammar in constructions truly parallel to John 1:1c. And while I have condensed my original 50+ pages to less informative studies, they are still considered too much whenever I try to present them in discussions.

Basically, using data from noted trinitarian NT Grammar experts, I found 19 other examples which were honestly parallel to the construction of John 1:1c. These were all translated into English in all the trinitarian-translated Bibles I examined (20+) as indefinite and using an indefinite article ("a/an"). None of them were ever translated as definite with the definite article ('the').

Therefore, since John 1:1c is literally "god was the word," and does not use the definite article with "god" as John (and the other Gospel writers) do when "God" is intended, it is most likely that it should read "the Word was a god."

"A god" in scripture is applied to Israelite judges, angels, kings, etc. and is not to be applied only to false gods as some trinitarians insist.

http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/2013/02/seven-lessons-for-john-11c-a.html

http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/2009/09/john-11c-primer_21.html
 
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