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The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

brightfame52

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Rom 5:11

11And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

The Atonement of Christ has reconciled the elect world to God. It secured and ensured for it [ the elect world] every spiritual blessing needed to live unto God and for His Glory through Jesus christ.

Even before the elect are born into this world as sinners, they have already [by the blood of Christ] been reconciled to God, it will now be a matter of time for it to be manifested.

The atonement accomplished the complete salvation for all whom it was offered for, that is the death of christ. It provides them Faith, repentance, sanctification, redemption, and every needful spiritual blessing to convert them to God, and remain secured forever.
 

JLB

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11And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

The verse link you quoted does not say atonement.

And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
Romans 5:11


Atonement is what the blood of bulls and goats did for the children of Israel. It ”covered” their sin, like pitch covers a roof.


The blood of Jesus removes or takes away our sin thus making a way for us to be reconciled to God; to be joined to Him as righteous.




JLB
 

brightfame52

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The verse link you quoted does not say atonement.

And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
Romans 5:11


Atonement is what the blood of bulls and goats did for the children of Israel. It ”covered” their sin, like pitch covers a roof.


The blood of Jesus removes or takes away our sin thus making a way for us to be reconciled to God; to be joined to Him as righteous.




JLB
It does say atonement, cant you read Rom 5:11

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement

The atonement reconciles ! So do you want to discuss the rest of the post points ?
 

rogerg

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IMHO, I believe the atonement of Christ removed the curse of Adam's and Eve's transgression (in the garden) from the Elect. It translated them from the jurisdiction of the law of sin and death (the law of law) to the jurisdiction of law of the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ.

[Rom 8:2 KJV]
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

[Rom 7:8-10 KJV]
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin [was] dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which [was ordained] to life, I found [to be] unto death.

[1Co 15:55-57 KJV]
55 O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?
56 The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
57 But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

[Col 2:14 KJV]
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
 

rogerg

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Atonement is what the blood of bulls and goats did for the children of Israel. It ”covered” their sin, like pitch covers a roof.
Hi JLB,
If I correctly understand your point (and if I don't, sorry) but I would have to respectfully disagree. Spiritually speaking, EVERYONE who has been, or who will become saved must be covered under Christ's offering - there is no other way:

[Heb 10:2-4 KJV]
2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3 But in those [sacrifices there is] a remembrance again [made] of sins every year.
4 For [it is] not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

[Heb 10:5-6 KJV]
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and [sacrifices] for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
 

brightfame52

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Deliverance from unbelief !

Unbelief is one of the sins that the elect world is saved from, that's the significance of this portion Jn 16:8-9.

The Holy Spirit convicts the elect unbeliever of sin and gives them faith.

Paul is an example, he was an elect who in unbelief rejected Jesus Christ and persecuted His followers, being blinded by the god of this world, but when it pleased God, He revealed in Him Jesus christ and he became a believer.

1 Tim 1:12-15,16

12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;

13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith [to believe]
and love which is in Christ Jesus.

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Being saved experimentally is being delivered from unbelief .

16
Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

The Fact is, no one Jesus Christ died to save, can ever die in unbelief, that would defeat one of the main purposes of His death accomplishments.
 

brightfame52

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rogerg

IMHO, I believe the atonement of Christ removed the curse of Adam's and Eve's transgression (in the garden) from the Elect.

You are correct, it was removed however because Christ, for the elect, suffered its due condemnation Gal 3:13

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

The us is the Elect !
 

rogerg

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You are correct, it was removed however because Christ, for the elect, suffered its due condemnation Gal 3:13

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

The us is the Elect !

Hi brightfame52,
Yes, I agree with that but ... I believe Christ's offering removed the Elect from under the jurisdiction of law of sin and death. This law was brought by Adam's and Eve's transgression and placed all mankind under it curse. So, this law therefore, is what Christ's offering had to negate, since it is what allowed sin to be imputed to mankind in the first place. For those to whom the law was negated, all sin caused by, or related to it, ceased to exist. For the Elect, there is no longer judgment for them because there is no longer any law by which judgment could be levied. If the law of sin and death is eliminated, its curse is also eliminated. Hope that makes sense.
But maybe we're saying the same thing.
 

brightfame52

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Hi brightfame52,
Yes, I agree with that but ... I believe Christ's offering removed the Elect from under the jurisdiction of law of sin and death. This law was brought by Adam's and Eve's transgression and placed all mankind under it curse. So, this law therefore, is what Christ's offering had to negate, since it is what allowed sin to be imputed to mankind in the first place. For those to whom the law was negated, all sin caused by, or related to it, ceased to exist. For the Elect, there is no longer judgment for them because there is no longer any law by which judgment could be levied. If the law of sin and death is eliminated, its curse is also eliminated. Hope that makes sense.
But maybe we're saying the same thing.
The curse of the law is in full effect against the none elect, the gats Matt 25:41

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Do you believe that ? And do you know why they are called cursed by the King ?
 

rogerg

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The curse of the law is in full effect against the none elect, the gats Matt 25:41

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Do you believe that ? And do you know why they are called cursed by the King ?

Definitely believe it.
I'm not exactly clear on what you're getting at with the second part of your reply but I would say the non-elect are cursed because they are under the law of sin and death and are willing co-conspirators in it - as everyone was prior to God intervention (intervention for those of the Elect, that is). By following that law, they, in effect, worship Satan believing him to be god, thereby discarding the true Savior, Jesus Christ.
 

JLB

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Hi JLB,
If I correctly understand your point (and if I don't, sorry) but I would have to respectfully disagree. Spiritually speaking, EVERYONE who has been, or who will become saved must be covered under Christ's offering - there is no other way:

[Heb 10:2-4 KJV]
2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3 But in those [sacrifices there is] a remembrance again [made] of sins every year.
4 For [it is] not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

[Heb 10:5-6 KJV]
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and [sacrifices] for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

My only point:


Atonement is not a proper term to be used in association with the blood of Jesus.




JLB
 

JLB

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It does say atonement, cant you read Rom 5:11

Yes I quoted verse 11.

And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
Romans 5:11


Again...

The link you left says reconciliation, not atonement.




JLB
 

brightfame52

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What are the objectives and effects of the death of Christ ?

Why was it important for those He shed His blood for ? It provided unto them redemption per Eph 1:7

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

The word for redemption is:

apolytrōsis and means:

releasing effected by payment of ransom

a) redemption, deliverance

b) liberation procured by the payment of a ransom


The death of Christ procured the Liberation of His people who had been captive by satan and under his power of darkness.

So all them whom Christ redeemed by His blood are recipients in time of the Spirit of Liberty.

2 Cor 3:17

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

It is written of Christ in the OT Isa 61:1

The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

also Lk 4:18

The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

So, one of the objectives and effects of the death of Christ for His People is their redemption which secure unto them their regeneration, or birth by the Spirit, which gives them Spiritual liberty !
 

brightfame52

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Definitely believe it.
I'm not exactly clear on what you're getting at with the second part of your reply but I would say the non-elect are cursed because they are under the law of sin and death and are willing co-conspirators in it - as everyone was prior to God intervention (intervention for those of the Elect, that is). By following that law, they, in effect, worship Satan believing him to be god, thereby discarding the true Savior, Jesus Christ.
I believe they are called cursed by the King because the King was not made a curse for them, as He was for the Elect Gal 3:13. Since Christ for them didnt come under the curse of the law, hence in Justice, they must bare their own curse forever, that's Just with God !
 

JLB

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What are the objectives and effects of the death of Christ ?

Why was it important for those He shed His blood for ? It provided unto them redemption per Eph 1:7

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

The word for redemption is:

apolytrōsis and means:

releasing effected by payment of ransom

a) redemption, deliverance

b) liberation procured by the payment of a ransom


The death of Christ procured the Liberation of His people who had been captive by satan and under his power of darkness.

So all them whom Christ redeemed by His blood are recipients in time of the Spirit of Liberty.

2 Cor 3:17

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

It is written of Christ in the OT Isa 61:1

The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

also Lk 4:18

The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

So, one of the objectives and effects of the death of Christ for His People is their redemption which secure unto them their regeneration, or birth by the Spirit, which gives them Spiritual liberty !

Jesus died having shed His blood for the world.



For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. John 3:16-17





JLB
 

JLB

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I believe they are called cursed by the King because the King was not made a curse for them, as He was for the Elect Gal 3:13. Since Christ for them didnt come under the curse of the law, hence in Justice, they must bare their own curse forever, that's Just with God !



But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8
 

brightfame52

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Jesus died having shed His blood for the world.



For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. John 3:16-17





JLB
Okay thats your view, did you read my post points ? I took time to explain with scripture.
 

JLB

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Okay thats your view, did you read my post points ? I took time to explain with scripture.

What do you mean my view?

These are the words of scripture, literally.

  • For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. John 3:16-17


  • For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.


I can say with confidence that God loved the world and wants the world to be saved, because I believe Jesus Christ; I believe the truth.


Do you believe God sent His Son to condemn the world or that God sent His Son to die on the cross and shed His blood so the world could be saved?






JLB
 

JLB

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Okay thats your view, did you read my post points ? I took time to explain with scripture.

Do you believe God wants people to turn from the world and become saved?
 

rogerg

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Jesus died having shed His blood for the world.



For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. John 3:16-17





JLB

JLB,
How do you interpret these verses relative to John 3:16 & 17? Can, and how, does a mind un-blind itself? Since the minds of those who " believe not" have already been blinded by the "god of this world", and if a belief in Christ is not subsequently "given" to them by God (as Phl 1:28 & 29 tells us it must be), then how else can it be acquired? What, from outside of a person, can change a mind in its entirety from unbelieving to believing? How is a "whosoever" transformed into a believer if not by God?

[2Co 4:4 KJV]
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

[
Phl 1:28 KJV] 28 And in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God.
[Phl 1:29 KJV]
29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
 
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