What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

THE BLESSED HOPE vs UNIVERSAL MOURNING

Malachi

Malachi

Member
THE BLESSED HOPE: THE RAPTURE
“Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing (epiphaneia) of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.” (Tit 2:13,14)

UNIVERSAL MOURNING: THE REVELATION
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see(optomai) him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail (kopsontai) because of him. Even so, Amen. (Rev 1:7).
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. (Jude 1:14,15).

There are two aspects to the Second Coming of Christ: (1) the “Blessed Hope” of regenerated Christians expecting the Rapture, so that Christ can fully “redeem us” and “purify us unto Himself” and (2) the universal mourning of the unsaved world at His coming, because He comes to execute severe judgment. Therefore these are two distinct events and for two different purposes. Christ first comes FOR His saints, and then He comes WITH His saints.

There are several Greek words used for the “appearing” of Christ (who is our great God and Saviour), which all point to a bright, glorious, visible, physical, appearing or manifestation of the Lord Jesus Christ, either for His saints or with His saints. Therefore you will find epiphaneia (from which we get “epiphany”), phaneroo, optomai, parousia, and apokalupsis, which are all translated as “appearing” or “coming”. These words are applied to both aspects of Christ’s second coming, therefore context is the key. The important point to note is the certainty of the Second Coming of Christ in two phases.
 
Malachi said:
THE BLESSED HOPE: THE RAPTURE

There are two aspects to the Second Coming of Christ: (1) the “Blessed Hope” of regenerated Christians expecting the Rapture, so that Christ can fully “redeem us” and “purify us unto Himself” and (2) the universal mourning of the unsaved world at His coming, because He comes to execute severe judgment. Therefore these are two distinct events and for two different purposes. Christ first comes FOR His saints, and then He comes WITH His saints.
Click to expand...

Do you believe that since you have not yet experienced the rapture, at least as you see it, that Christ has not yet redeemed and purified you to himself?
 
Sinthesis said:
Do you believe that since you have not yet experienced the rapture, at least as you see it, that Christ has not yet redeemed and purified you to himself?
Click to expand...
Do you believe that you are sinless, perfect in body, soul and spirit, and glorious in your appearance?
 
Sinthesis said:
Do you believe that since you have not yet experienced the rapture, at least as you see it, that Christ has not yet redeemed and purified you to himself?
Click to expand...
Some people, I guess, will always be waiting for the kingdom......... never knowing we have already begun operating in it. Wadda ya gonna do?
 
Malachi said:
THE BLESSED HOPE: THE RAPTURE
“Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing (epiphaneia) of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.” (Tit 2:13,14)

UNIVERSAL MOURNING: THE REVELATION
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see(optomai) him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail (kopsontai) because of him. Even so, Amen. (Rev 1:7).
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. (Jude 1:14,15).

There are two aspects to the Second Coming of Christ: (1) the “Blessed Hope” of regenerated Christians expecting the Rapture, so that Christ can fully “redeem us” and “purify us unto Himself” and (2) the universal mourning of the unsaved world at His coming, because He comes to execute severe judgment. Therefore these are two distinct events and for two different purposes. Christ first comes FOR His saints, and then He comes WITH His saints.

There are several Greek words used for the “appearing” of Christ (who is our great God and Saviour), which all point to a bright, glorious, visible, physical, appearing or manifestation of the Lord Jesus Christ, either for His saints or with His saints. Therefore you will find epiphaneia (from which we get “epiphany”), phaneroo, optomai, parousia, and apokalupsis, which are all translated as “appearing” or “coming”. These words are applied to both aspects of Christ’s second coming, therefore context is the key. The important point to note is the certainty of the Second Coming of Christ in two phases.
Click to expand...
:thumbsup
 
Gal_6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
Col_1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
 
reba said:
Gal_6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
Col_1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
Click to expand...
Please expand on "the hope of glory" since it ties in to the Blessed Hope, and some need clarification.
 
I dont understand what you are asking... The Word simply says Christ in us is the hope of glory... Just think if all the Christians on earth really exhibited Christ...
 
reba said:
I dont understand what you are asking... The Word simply says Christ in us is the hope of glory... Just think if all the Christians on earth really exhibited Christ...
Click to expand...
A "hope" is that which has not been fulfilled as yet. Something to be completed in the future. So what is the "hope" and what is the "glory" in the context of this thread which speaks of a "Blessed Hope"?
 
I am not as Christlike as i HOPE to be. :) not by a long shot
Some folks want to rule like a Caesar , want gem stones in a crown. are looking for streets literally paved in gold.... .. Jesus the Christ was/is our example... He ruled from meekness ... His crown was thorns...

I truly believe God's Word to be written to us at our levels of understanding / thinking/ believes ... not that one is any better or worse then the other just slightly different... Just as human parents do not react to each child exactly the same...
 
The important point to note is the certainty of the Second Coming of Christ in two phases.
Click to expand...

I think you are referring to a pre-trib rapture, and then a 2nd coming after the Great Tribulation. I don't think that interpretation is a certainty at all, but I also don't think such a distinction is the basis of our hope anyway (or probably shouldn't be if it is). After all, whether pre or post trib, the same people still believe in a resurrection (new bodies, yay!), forgiveness, salvation and eternal life with Jesus (I think).

I don't think God will punish people for thinking he should have come before all the trouble started but I do think there will still be a natural consequence of such a position, even if it's only that those people were not as prepared as they could have been and so were caught unaware and quite possibly swept away by the intensity of the situation.

I believe this kind of situation is what Jesus was describing when he warned people not to go off into the desert or the secret chambers (Matt 24), as though Jesus really had returned, but secretly. People who are disillusioned by all the trouble, who had been so sure that Jesus was supposed to come back before the trouble, are likely to be quite vulnerable to believing such alternatives.

Anyway, hope is a strong motivator. With hope we can get through just about anything.
 
john darling said:
I think you are referring to a pre-trib rapture, and then a 2nd coming after the Great Tribulation. I don't think that interpretation is a certainty at all, but I also don't think such a distinction is the basis of our hope anyway (or probably shouldn't be if it is). After all, whether pre or post trib, the same people still believe in a resurrection (new bodies, yay!), forgiveness, salvation and eternal life with Jesus (I think).

I don't think God will punish people for thinking he should have come before all the trouble started but I do think there will still be a natural consequence of such a position, even if it's only that those people were not as prepared as they could have been and so were caught unaware and quite possibly swept away by the intensity of the situation.

I believe this kind of situation is what Jesus was describing when he warned people not to go off into the desert or the secret chambers (Matt 24), as though Jesus really had returned, but secretly. People who are disillusioned by all the trouble, who had been so sure that Jesus was supposed to come back before the trouble, are likely to be quite vulnerable to believing such alternatives.

Anyway, hope is a strong motivator. With hope we can get through just about anything.
Click to expand...

Hu? :confused I don't believe that at all.That is a slap in the face to pre-trib believers.
 
It's not meant to be a slap and it's not meant to be personal. I just see it as a disagreement in how we each interpret what we see in the teachings.
 
reba said:
I am not as Christlike as i HOPE to be. :)
Click to expand...
And that's the whole point of this thread. I asked Sinthesis: "Do you believe that you are sinless, perfect in body, soul and spirit, and glorious in your appearance?". He chose not to answer, because the answer is obvious. But he also dodged the obvious question (which you have also dodged). If we are not presently sinless, perfect in body, soul, and spirit, and glorious in appearance, then at what point will we be? That's what "the Blessed Hope" is all about, and that question has to be answered from Scripture. I could provide the answer, but I would like to see how others provide that answer.
 
john darling said:
I think you are referring to a pre-trib rapture, and then a 2nd coming after the Great Tribulation. I don't think that interpretation is a certainty at all,...
Click to expand...
You saw the Scriptures I posted. What makes you say that that interpretation is not "a certainty at all?" Are you suggesting that "A Blessed Hope" = Universal Mourning? If so, on what grounds? Or are you saying that the Second Coming of Christ is not an absolute certainty?
 
you didn't answer it to his satisification. you aren't looking for the literal kingdom to come as he believes.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top