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The Book Among Feminists Groups Being Debated

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WordsintoHarmony

Member
Feminists Outraged After Female Author Writes Book Encouraging Women to 'Get Married and Be Submissive' Based on Bible Becomes a Hit in Europe.
A self-help book based on Old Testament principles of the Bible written by a 43-year-old married Italian journalist and mother of four advising women to be submissive to their husbands in marriage is now causing an international uproar from feminists around the world.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/f...ased-on-bible-becomes-a-hit-in-europe-111120/
 
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Feminists outraged?

Tough.


Gays and Lesbians outraged that Phil Robertson quoted the Bible in an interview?

Tough.


We Christians have been enduring the likes of Miley Cyrus and Kim K. and others, so stop your whining.
 
It hasn't made the news here yet. But we've also had our share of traitresses stabbing into the backs of their sisters.

Not sure what's better- being outraged or ignoring it to deprive it of any attention?
 
Claudya, what are you afraid of from Christians defending Biblical truths?

That's what it boils down to. What are you afraid of? That you will be forced to submit to these truths? You know that simply is not going to happen, right?

Even in America, Christian consciousness does not mean gays have to stop being gays, and feminists can't marry whom they choose and have the kind of relationship they want to have with that person.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
Claudya, what are you afraid of from Christians defending Biblical truths?

That's what it boils down to. What are you afraid of? That you will be forced to submit to these truths? You know that simply is not going to happen, right?
Click to expand...
Who says I'm afraid of something?
What bothers me is that ideas and books like that perpetuate the myth that women are inferior to men and need male guidance, or only live for the purpose of supporting and sastifying men. That, however, is a mindset that helps to breed violent misogyny and abuse against women.

Even in America, Christian consciousness does not mean gays have to stop being gays, and feminists can't marry whom they choose and have the relationship they want to have.
Click to expand...
Really? Then why is it so hard for many American christians to just leave gays alone?
 
Claudia,
I'll try not to be as brash as Jethro but Submission, the Biblical way, is a two way street and does, absolutely, nothing to belittle women. It does show us God's design for perfection. I teach in a smallish Country Church where Basic Christianity is practiced.

Many there are married and most have learned the beauty of mutual submission and have learned, men and women, the sweet harmony that life, God's way, brings.

My wife understands that my body and my intentions, all, belong to her and I know that her body and all of her intentions belong to me, we made that commitment in front of God, November 16, 1991, in the Suburbanwood Baptist Church when we were joined together for eternity by Brother Clark.

The urging of women to be submissive to their husbands is the godly way to a successful marriage. It has nothing to do with belittlement of either sex. Without a wife or a concubine I would have never enjoyed my children and my baby girl, my granddaughter, would never have just graduated from Texas A&M this month.

In like manor, my wife would never have enjoyed these same fruits of a successful marriage without a husband. Before the MS took me out, there were many things, like re-roofing the house or rewiring the attic that might never have been accomplished, had she not had her man to help her when these jobs that require more than one person to complete them.

And then there is, of course, the matter of our existence. Had God never noticed Adam's loneliness and need for a mate, he might have still been there in the Garden but he also would have been 6,000 years lonely and childless. No man can live a successful, full and loving life without his woman and the same is true of the woman.

I've not read this book yet but it sounds like someone is trying to teach God's principals to me.
 
Bill, you are speaking of mutual submission, and that is fine! :thumbsup
It's a requirement for a mature and successfull marriage. You seem to have great and loving marriage, God be praised for that!! I hope I will be able to say the same thing about my own marriage some day.
So I have absolutely no issues with anything you said.
Except for the very last sentence.

But I suspect the book is proposing a one-sided-ness of submission. Asking women to submit to their husband while not asking the same thing of men likewise is belittling women. Because if only women submit and men get to be the unquestioned leaders there will be an inequality that would on the long run leave a lot of people frustrated and marriages unhappy. Because people long for justice and will perceive an undeserved inequality as injustice. Marriages would suffer from that.
Besides, since the Bible speaks of mutual submission, I doubt that a book aimed only at telling woman to submit is truely biblical.
 
Claudya said:
Who says I'm afraid of something?
What bothers me is that ideas and books like that perpetuate the myth that women are inferior to men and need male guidance, or only live for the purpose of supporting and sastifying men. That, however, is a mindset that helps to breed violent misogyny and abuse against women.
Click to expand...
I haven't read the book, but I think if you read the book you'd be surprised how it is not a book that will perpetuate man's abuse of God's plan for the male to be in authority over the female.

I bet if we discussed it, you really don't know what Biblical submission is all about.


Claudya said:
Really? Then why is it so hard for many American christians to just leave gays alone?
Click to expand...
I've never met or heard of a single (legitimate) American Christian saying gays can not be gay. They are left alone to be gay.

That's not what the battle is about.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
I haven't read the book, but I think if you read the book you'd be surprised how it is not a book that will perpetuate man's abuse of God's plan for the male to be in authority over the female.

I bet if we discussed it, you really don't know what Biblical submission is all about.



I've never met or heard of a single (legitimate) American Christian saying gays can not be gay. They are left alone to be gay.

That's not what the battle is about.
Click to expand...
no its not. its about the ability to disagree with them and being made to please them. but that is allowed only the right forum. I may do the thread.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
I haven't read the book, but I think if you read the book you'd be surprised how it is not a book that will perpetuate man's abuse of God's plan for the male to be in authority over the female.

I bet if we discussed it, you really don't know what Biblical submission is all about.
Click to expand...

We discussed it before.
Like I said in my response to th1b.taylor, submission is great... if it's mutual. But anything one-sided is doomed to fail, at least in my marriage. I want a partner, not a head. I already have a head on my shoulders.

I've never met or heard of a single (legitimate) American Christian saying gays can not be gay. They are left alone to be gay.
That's not what the battle is about.
Click to expand...
Fine, then leave them alone and let them legally get married. If they want to suffer like the rest of us they shall have their wish.
 
Claudya said:
Bill, you are speaking of mutual submission, and that is fine! :thumbsup
It's a requirement for a mature and successfull marriage. You seem to have great and loving marriage, God be praised for that!! I hope I will be able to say the same thing about my own marriage some day.
So I have absolutely no issues with anything you said.
Except for the very last sentence.

But I suspect the book is proposing a one-sided-ness of submission. Asking women to submit to their husband while not asking the same thing of men likewise is belittling women. Because if only women submit and men get to be the unquestioned leaders there will be an inequality that would on the long run leave a lot of people frustrated and marriages unhappy. Because people long for justice and will perceive an undeserved inequality as injustice. Marriages would suffer from that.
Besides, since the Bible speaks of mutual submission, I doubt that a book aimed only at telling woman to submit is truely biblical.
Click to expand...
Have you read the book?
 
he means the book in the bible called ephasians specifically chapter 5. likewise ye husband submit unto the wife and submit ye one to another.
 
jasoncran said:
he means the book in the bible called ephasians specifically chapter 5. likewise ye husband submit unto the wife and submit ye one to another.
Click to expand...
my wife Claudya, if you go to my fb wall and look at the pics you will see the home I have, its changed a bit but the paint scheme and the artwork is still there. my wife painted all the rooms in a few weeks. she has the ability to decorate and paint. I don't do paint.
 
Claudya said:
I doubt there would be a feminist outrage if it was about mutual submission.
Click to expand...
Actually, I meant the book being discussed here, the one I suspect none of us are qualified to discuss. My stepfather, my dad, taught me a number of valuable lessons. One of them, "Never judge a book by it's cover," is applicable in every walk of life.

Having lives for one month short of 69 years, now, I have watched this Bible condemning Feminist Movement grow and it has destroyed femininity. God created our women in the weaker form for a reason and possibly for a number of reasons. The Feminist wants women to be equal with the man but are so involved with themselves that they cannot see that God created woman equal with man in many ways, less than man in a few ways and superior to man in a few ways so that, in the balance, we are equal when we acknowledge our different rolls in life.

Without that, acknowledgement of our separate rolls in life there is no lasting happiness. What you are demonstrating to us, today, is the same reactionary, or knee-jerk reactions that make organizations like GLAAD so very unaccepted in the world of Christianity. The actions, such as this unknowledgable reaction to this book is just as objectionable to the Christian World view as was the Activist Homosexual's actions in Frisco during the sixties and seventies when they invaded Church Services and slung their used and unused sex devices at the members.

The Feminist Movement is not a Christian event because, as followers of the Saviour, there are rules we live by. The Saviour, Jesus, is God and God is not questioned.

We, the saved, will not change the Lost Man (Man is used in the generic form here) by joining in his or her sin. We, the Saved, are to set the example for the World to follow by following the "commands" of Jesus. To do this, successfully, we must know scripture. To know scripture we must begin with John 1:1 - 5, for it is here that we understand who Jesus, truly is.

When we have absorbed these five verses it becomes, quite, clear that Jesus is the author of the entire Bible, every word from Genesis and "In the beginning..." through the very last "Amen" of Revelation 22.

If a man and a woman can absorb this and submit, they can live. And if a man or a woman have absorbed this and their mate has refused it, the Godly person can be a blessing to the ungodly one and is, in scripture, called to that mission.

Claudia, I pray for God's blessing on your life but there are conditions laid out in scripture.
 
As a feminist I am really sad you have such a negative view on us.
Maybe I can point you to the fact that I am not American, and it seems to me christendom is generally more liberal and progressive in my country, so my behaviour, although still clearly feminist, is in no way radical or extreme compared to the people, christian or other, I meet around me on a day by day basis. So it often surprises me that I leave such a dark impression on Americans when stating things that are absolutely acceptable for christians in my culture.
It's neither your, nor my fault, it's just an unresolvable cultural difference that we can only accept.

In what way have we, or have the generations of women before my time, destroyed feminity? Because I would think that in empowering women feminity is actually strengthened.
What exactly is "feminity"? Is there a universal "feminine nature" (other than the biological facts like that we can have the babies)? One purpose of feminism is to leave it to the individual to explore what exactly their feminity means. We hope that we do not only improve the situation for women (especially for those in countries where women face sexual violence, blatant discrimination and reduced access to education and healthcare), but also for men who will have stronger and more self confident girlfriends and wifes who can be true partners and companions for them. Self confidence in this case means a healthy relationship with oneself, which is a neccessary condition for altruistic behaviour and humility.
And from what I am hearing for a number of men, that is the kind of woman many guys seem to wish for and feel attracted to.

I believe the "seperate roles" in life do not really exist. We are very different on an individual level, and many of us do not have the talents that are traditionally asigned to a stereotypical person of their sex. If I'd take a photo of my appartment as it is right now and post it here you would see that I am a terribly untalented housekeeper. >_< Many of us have skills and interests that would traditionally be something ascribed to the opposite sex. I know that this is not exactly what most christians' idea about biblical gender roles is about; but it is an example to show that gender is often a poor predictor for what a person is good at and what talents they have. So it just wouldn't make any sense to see any God given different roles for ALL women and ALL men. Those two categories are just too unspecific.
The Bible doesn't even comment on gender roles much. Some Bible passages describe how things were or were expected to be in those days, but there is no comment on whether those things are good, bad or irrelevant. As far as I can tell it's mostly Proverbs 31 and a few lines Paul wrote.
And like I told you earlier I know that mutual submission is necessary for a healthy marriage.

So I am wondering, in what way have I disobeyed God in this context? Believe me, I haven't done anything illegal or violent. My feminist activism is limited to debating with people, signing online petitions, sharing stuff on facebook and wearing shirts with feminist messages, so I haven't done anything illegal or indecent in regards to that. I have no husband that I could be disobeying or so, and the last boyfriend I had (before becoming christian) was also were much in favour of equality. So what exactly is my sin? I never felt that fighting for women's rights was seperating me from God in any way.
Okay I judged a book without having read it. I'm not 69 yet, so I'm excused for being youthfully unwise. ;-) Seriously though I'm having a hard time ot judging that book, but I will try not to judge the author, but instead see her as a sister in the Lord who may have a different world view in some things.
 
Feminism is rebellion not much different than a man wanting to grow long hair..:readbible


"You can name anything you want to name, but I am opposed to anything in the world that de-emphasizes the line of difference between the sexes. I believe that ladies ought to be feminine and sweet and lovely and charming. I believe men ought to be strong and masculine and decisive. I’m opposed to anything that makes a man and a woman act alike, look alike, dress alike, or talk alike."

Pastor Jack Hyles

tob
 
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