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The Context of Matthew 24 and 25

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Jesus defined what He was teaching, that Matthew recorded in chapter 24 and 25, in the light of Daniel the prophet.

13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. 15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand)...

Daniel 9:26-27

26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

It is clear from Daniel that the destruction of the city and sanctuary was not the end, for Daniel goes on to write about the remaining 70th week.

27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate."

Daniel writes that in the middle of the week, [3 1/2 years], the prince who is to come will put an end to sacrifice and offering, which means sacrifice and offerings will have commence again sometime after the city and sanctuary are destroyed.

In Matthew 24 and 25, Jesus teaches of the signs that lead up to His coming and the end of the age, of which verse 15 address's Daniel 9:27, which is clearly referring to a time after the city and sanctuary are destroyed.

Once you understand this simple truth, you will not be confused any longer with trying to force the time frame of the destruction of the city and sanctuary of 70 AD with the Coming of the Lord and the end of the age!

Hope this helps.

JLB
 
, The context of discussion in Matthew 24 and Matthew 25 is "The return of Jesus Christ" aka the coming of the Son of Man.

[FONT=&quot]Where is the phrase destruction of the temple or the temple destroyed, or Sanctuary destroyed in Matthew 24 or 25?

The Lord said these words -"Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

Yet In His answer we don't find the phrase Temple Destroyed, Sanctuary Destroyed, as in Daniel, or [FONT=&quot] not one stone shall be left here upon another[/FONT]
[/FONT].

Actually, it is there. The disciples were pointing out the temple to Him and that is what He responded to, since that is what their questions were about and He did say those words to them, about that temple.

And your comment is also confusing, since you seem to acknowledge this, yet you then state that it's not there, like (as) it is in Daniel, which is where those words are NOT found.

But going by the rest of your post, I am going to assume that you are saying that Jesus did not tell them those things and that He was not talking about the temple then being destroyed. And my position is that He clearly was!

Furthermore, in 70AD, the temple was destroyed, with "not one stone left upon another", just as Jesus said it would be.

Lastly, no offense, but it's you who's taking things out of context, not us. You're taking Matt 24-25 out of their context. The context begins in Matt 23, not Matt 24.

What Futurists don't realize, is that the events of Matt 23-24 take place all at the same time.

In Matt 23, Jesus and His disciples are in the temple and Jesus is blasting the scribes and the Pharisees and He definitely told them that the temple would be destroyed and that they would see it happen. He told them that it would happen in that same generation. Read Matt 23, but especially Matt 23:34-38.

And when it says in Matt 24 that they walked up the mount, where do you think they were coming from? From the temple, in Matt 23.

And the interesting part here, is that Futurists, who are in general ignorant about the Scriptures, because what they know is their doctrine, not the Scriptures, is that before being taught that Matt 24 connectsx to Matt 23, these same Futurists readily admit that in Matt 23:36, Jesus is definitedly talking about that very same generation.

Of course, again, they readily admit this, because they do not realize that Matt 24 does NOT jump ahead in time, more than maybe 20 minutes. And they get real upset when they find that out! And even more so, when they find out that even worse for their doctrine, it's all part of the same subject of discussion! And that's because it means that they don't get to continue playing their word games with Matt 24:34!

The fact is, that in Matt 23, as I said, Jesus is standing there with His disciples and He is blasting both the scribes and the Pharisees and then tells them that THEY will pay the price for their sins. That it will happen in THEIR generation. That THEIR temple will be destroyed. That the culmination of the sins of all of the previous generation will come in THEIR time.

Read Matt 23:34-38 for yourself and do us both a favor and stop trying to get around these Scriptures and face up to them for once!

Anyway, it was on this note that they exited the temple (His disciples in utter shock) and walked up the mount and when they had done so, the disciples turned to Jesus, pointing out the glory of the temple, as if to say; "Surely not this temple, Lord!" and then proceeded to ask Him their questions.

NOT some other questions, about some other subject that they just thought up out of the blue, like you wish they did. Could you just forget about what Jesus just said, if the temple were the center of your entire life, like it was for every Jew there?! No! Of course not! You couldn't even do that today, minutes after hearing someone say your church would be burned down! And that specific building isn't even anywhere near as important to you, as their temple was to them!

And so, Jesus answered THEIR questions. NOT the ones that you wish He asked, because they would fit your doctrine, but rather, the ones that they actually asked! And the questions they asked, were about the temple that Jesus HAD JUST SAID was going to be destroyed, in that very same generation!

And THAT, my friend, is "the context" of those chapters. :)

Whether anyone likes it or not, it was about the then standing temple and its destruction! And nowhere did Jesus ever say to them; "But skip it the first time it happens, okay guys?".

I mean, was Jesus' time machine broken or something? He's really talking to you, today and was so dimwitted, that He figured that the best way to do that, was to come in the 1st century and lie to people and mislead pedople in the 1st century about when it would happen?

Huh?!? Puhlease!!!

Nowhere did Jesus ever say to them...

"Okay guys, now listen up. I know that I came in the 1st century and that I keep looking at you when I'm talking about this stuff and that I keep saying to you the word 'you' about who these things will happen to, but when I do that, I'm not really talking to you! I'm really talking to people who will live thousands of years from now, okay? I mean, after all, obviously anyone who comes in the 1st century didn't want to talk to people in the 1st century! So why do you guys keep getting upset about all this destruction stuff, like it's going to happen to you?! Don't you guys know about the standard, 'If you travel thru time, always land two millennia off' rule?! C'mon, guys! Why would I come now, if I wanted to talk to you? Obviously, if I wanted to talk to you, I would have come 2,000 years ago!"

Nope! Jesus never said that to them! But according to your doctrine, that's what He must have believed! Or while traveling, His time machine broke, He landed in their time by accident and just made the best of it, hoping that we todaý would know that He wasn't really taking to them and excuse all of the statements He made in which He said He was and just know that He was really talking to us instead.

Do you ever think your doctrine through???

According to your doctrine, in order for it to be about them in their time, He would have to have come to Earth 2,000 years before they lived, since that's the time separation that YOU place between His coming and who He was "really" talking to.

And I'm being super nice about this too! I haven't even touched the subject of how much ego and pure vanity it takes to believe that someone who talks to people of a certain time and plainly tells them that it's about them, in their time, is really talking to me (Futurists), today! :)
 
And I'm being super nice about this too! I haven't even touched the subject of how much ego and pure vanity it takes to believe that someone who talks to people of a certain time and plainly tells them that it's about them, in their time, is really talking to me (Futurists), today! :)

I'm confused. Is this post for us, or just people 2000yrs from now?
 
Actually, it is there. The disciples were pointing out the temple to Him and that is what He responded to, since that is what their questions were about and He did say those words to them, about that temple.

And your comment is also confusing, since you seem to acknowledge this, yet you then state that it's not there, like (as) it is in Daniel, which is where those words are NOT found.

But going by the rest of your post, I am going to assume that you are saying that Jesus did not tell them those things and that He was not talking about the temple then being destroyed. And my position is that He clearly was!

Furthermore, in 70AD, the temple was destroyed, with "not one stone left upon another", just as Jesus said it would be.

Lastly, no offense, but it's you who's taking things out of context, not us. You're taking Matt 24-25 out of their context. The context begins in Matt 23, not Matt 24.

What Futurists don't realize, is that the events of Matt 23-24 take place all at the same time.

In Matt 23, Jesus and His disciples are in the temple and Jesus is blasting the scribes and the Pharisees and He definitely told them that the temple would be destroyed and that they would see it happen. He told them that it would happen in that same generation. Read Matt 23, but especially Matt 23:34-38.

And when it says in Matt 24 that they walked up the mount, where do you think they were coming from? From the temple, in Matt 23.

And the interesting part here, is that Futurists, who are in general ignorant about the Scriptures, because what they know is their doctrine, not the Scriptures, is that before being taught that Matt 24 connectsx to Matt 23, these same Futurists readily admit that in Matt 23:36, Jesus is definitedly talking about that very same generation.

Of course, again, they readily admit this, because they do not realize that Matt 24 does NOT jump ahead in time, more than maybe 20 minutes. And they get real upset when they find that out! And even more so, when they find out that even worse for their doctrine, it's all part of the same subject of discussion! And that's because it means that they don't get to continue playing their word games with Matt 24:34!

The fact is, that in Matt 23, as I said, Jesus is standing there with His disciples and He is blasting both the scribes and the Pharisees and then tells them that THEY will pay the price for their sins. That it will happen in THEIR generation. That THEIR temple will be destroyed. That the culmination of the sins of all of the previous generation will come in THEIR time.

Read Matt 23:34-38 for yourself and do us both a favor and stop trying to get around these Scriptures and face up to them for once!

Anyway, it was on this note that they exited the temple (His disciples in utter shock) and walked up the mount and when they had done so, the disciples turned to Jesus, pointing out the glory of the temple, as if to say; "Surely not this temple, Lord!" and then proceeded to ask Him their questions.

NOT some other questions, about some other subject that they just thought up out of the blue, like you wish they did. Could you just forget about what Jesus just said, if the temple were the center of your entire life, like it was for every Jew there?! No! Of course not! You couldn't even do that today, minutes after hearing someone say your church would be burned down! And that specific building isn't even anywhere near as important to you, as their temple was to them!

And so, Jesus answered THEIR questions. NOT the ones that you wish He asked, because they would fit your doctrine, but rather, the ones that they actually asked! And the questions they asked, were about the temple that Jesus HAD JUST SAID was going to be destroyed, in that very same generation!

And THAT, my friend, is "the context" of those chapters. :)

Whether anyone likes it or not, it was about the then standing temple and its destruction! And nowhere did Jesus ever say to them; "But skip it the first time it happens, okay guys?".

I mean, was Jesus' time machine broken or something? He's really talking to you, today and was so dimwitted, that He figured that the best way to do that, was to come in the 1st century and lie to people and mislead pedople in the 1st century about when it would happen?

Huh?!? Puhlease!!!

Nowhere did Jesus ever say to them...

"Okay guys, now listen up. I know that I came in the 1st century and that I keep looking at you when I'm talking about this stuff and that I keep saying to you the word 'you' about who these things will happen to, but when I do that, I'm not really talking to you! I'm really talking to people who will live thousands of years from now, okay? I mean, after all, obviously anyone who comes in the 1st century didn't want to talk to people in the 1st century! So why do you guys keep getting upset about all this destruction stuff, like it's going to happen to you?! Don't you guys know about the standard, 'If you travel thru time, always land two millennia off' rule?! C'mon, guys! Why would I come now, if I wanted to talk to you? Obviously, if I wanted to talk to you, I would have come 2,000 years ago!"

Nope! Jesus never said that to them! But according to your doctrine, that's what He must have believed! Or while traveling, His time machine broke, He landed in their time by accident and just made the best of it, hoping that we todaý would know that He wasn't really taking to them and excuse all of the statements He made in which He said He was and just know that He was really talking to us instead.

Do you ever think your doctrine through???

According to your doctrine, in order for it to be about them in their time, He would have to have come to Earth 2,000 years before they lived, since that's the time separation that YOU place between His coming and who He was "really" talking to.

And I'm being super nice about this too! I haven't even touched the subject of how much ego and pure vanity it takes to believe that someone who talks to people of a certain time and plainly tells them that it's about them, in their time, is really talking to me (Futurists), today! :)


And I'm being super nice about this too! I haven't even touched the subject of how much ego and pure vanity it takes to believe that someone who talks to people of a certain time and plainly tells them that it's about them, in their time, is really talking to me (Futurists), today!
Okay, since your are wanting to play nice, then I will be nice and just quote the scripture that puts things in perspective for you.


35 Watch therefore, for you do not know when the master of the house is coming--in the evening, at midnight, at the crowing of the rooster, or in the morning-- 36 lest, coming suddenly, he find you sleeping. 37 And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!" Mark 13:35-37

What I say to you, I say to all!


Hope that clears up your confusion about who Jesus was addressing in the Gospels.

Unless you don't believe the message of the Gospel is for us today? :thud:

Show me in Jesus' Olivet Discourse ie; Matthew 24:4 - 25:46, where He mentions the destruction of the "city and sanctuary".


Try your best to refer to scripture.


Thanks, JLB
 
Okay, since your are wanting to play nice, then I will be nice and just quote the scripture that puts things in perspective for you.

"Watch therefore, for you do not know when the master of the house is coming--in the evening, at midnight, at the crowing of the rooster, or in the morning--lest, coming suddenly, he find you sleeping. And what I say to you..."

Hope that clears up your confusion about who Jesus was addressing in the Gospels.

Why is it that Futurists approach problems with their doctrine by trying to pit Scripture against itself?

What I notice, is that you could not dispute the facts that I presented to you. And so, because your doctrine is more important to you than what the Scriptures actually say, instead of just admitting that, you instead try jumping to a different set of verses, as if to say that what I showed you can't be true, because gee, look at these verses...

But let's look at them, because when we do, what you're going to find out, is that these very same verses that you try to use to support the idea that it's about 2,000 years later, actually condemn your view and tell you that it was about back then.

The question is; To whom was Jesus speaking when He said the things you quoted Him saying? I'm not asking who your doctrine claims He was speaking to, but rather, who He was actually standing there talking to?

The answer is very simple! He was standing there talking to the people He was looking at and speaking to! Words were coming out of HIs mouth and there were people standing there hearing them.

Now, did those words include the following?

"Okay, I'm talking to you, but this is about people who will live a couple thousand years from now."

No, He did not!

But what did He say? He said the following and note the caps and note that He told THEM that THEY didn't want the Master to come and find THEM sleeping! THEM! NOT YOU!

Jesus said in the verses that you quoted above...

"Watch therefore, for *YOU* do not know when the master of the house is coming--in the evening, at midnight, at the crowing of the rooster, or in the morning--lest, coming suddenly, he find *YOU* sleeping."

You need to stop reading the Bible as if it were written just yesterday, or as if Jesus spoke and then time stopped, until you opened a Bible for the first time! No offense, but that's ridiculous and it's just plain vanity!

Jesus stood there and spoke to HIs disciples and used the word "you" TO THEM, not you!


Unless you don't believe the message of the Gospel is for us today? :thud:

Thud? Like you actually did something? Trust me, you didn't.

Let's turn your question back on you;

You don't believe that the message of the Gospel was for them, then? They were left out, because it's really "for us, today", according to you?

Your question just backfired on you!

But this is what you Futurists do. Instead of dealing with the facts that are presented to you, you ask loaded questions that you figure the other person can't answer. But that's just you, playing dodge ball with the Scriptures that you were shown!

The truth is, there is an answer and that answer is to turn the question back on you. You want to pretend that it's all about you today and that if Isay that Jesus was talking to them, then I'm saying that the Gospel has nothing to do with us today. In truth, it has everything to do with every generation since Christ came. But it wouldn't and in fact, it couldn't, if Jesus had not fulfilled His promise and that is something that you just do not get! Your doctrine has no one benefitting from the Gospel, since you equate that benefit with being alive when you claim "the end" is here!

And isn't it interesting that you think that it's your generation that will see it all happen! That the Gospel is about YOU, TODAY! That statement means that it wasn't about anyone else!

You didn't just say that we benefit from the Gospel! You said that the Gospel is FOR US, TODAY! What is the only conclusion then, except that it wasn't for any other generation? How can it be "FOR US, TODAY", if it was also about other generations? And remember, you said that about "the Gospel" (your words) and the Gospel is about salvation! So you have just equated salvation with your end times doctrine and left every other generation out of the picture! How does it feel to exclude every other generation, billions and billions of people from being saved, because "it's all about you, now"?! That's quite an ego you have there!!!

But I have news for you, my friend! No, the Gospel is not "for us today". The Gospel was for them, then. That's why Jesus kept saying "when YOU see..." to THEM.

We however, today, reap the benefits from the Gospel as every other generation did and the part of the Gospel that equals salvation and everlasting life in Heaven with Christ, because of His death on the cross and resurrection and this will go on for as long as time itself goes on!

And guess what? According to your own logic, if the Gospel was not about them, then, then no other generation but yours, today, could reap the benefit of salvation! That's what your doctrine means when it says that "The Gospel is for us, today".

Your doctrine would also mean that we would still be under the Mosaic Law, since your doctrine claims that two covenants are running side by side and no, you cannot claim that applies only to Jews, since according to Scripture, Christians are "Jews inwardly" and since from the very beginning of the Mosaic Law, the Scriptures tell us that anyone who wanted to be part of God's community, had to convert to the Mosaic Law. Therefore, if your doctrine were true, it would mean that everyone who wishes to become a Christian, must also convert to Judaism, since your doctrine has the Mosaic Law Covenant still running!

You Futurists simply do not think your doctrine through! And when you are shown major, covenant crumbling problems with it, instead of recognizing and dealing with them, you prefer instead of ignore them and pretend that pitting Scripture against itself means that you've dealt with the problem!

And your problem with what you quoted Jesus saying, above, is that He was talking to them, which is why He said "you" to them, while talking to them!

It is ridiculous to think that Jesus was standing there talking to people, saying things like "when you see..." to them, but was really talking to people 2,000 years later! It is ridiculous!

Show me in Jesus' Olivet Discourse ie; Matthew 24:4-25:46, where He mentions the destruction of the "city and sanctuary".

I did, by showing you that chap 23 is part of the discussion and is what their questions in chap 24 were based on, which you now intentionally ignore. Furthermore, Luke 21 is the parallel to Matt 24 and so if you want even more specific wording, then read Luke 21:20-22, in which Jesus, during HIs Olivet Discourse, specifically states that Jerusalem/Judea is the target of God's wrath.


Try your best to refer to Scripture.

I did that. You didn't like what they said. So try this time not to ignore Scripture.
 
Matthew 24:33-34
"So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

The problem is, many people understand that this Chapter is speaking about later day occurrences, and so they are puzzled as to how the phrase, "this generation," fits the context. The confusion exists because the average Christian is unaware that there are several ways that this Greek word [genea], translated generation, is used in scripture. This is in contrast to extra-biblical or secular dictionary definitions. First of all it is from the root word [genos] meaning kindred or family. In conjunction with that, it is used three distinct ways within scripture.


1. It can be used to denote a physical family generation or bloodline.
2. It can be used to denote the spiritual family or generation of evil.
3. And it can be used to denote the spiritual family or generation of Christ.

These are three very distinct and Biblically justifiable applications of this word. The word generation is unambiguously used in the Bible in all three of these contexts, so that even those of Praeterit Eschatology will not deny this fact.

There are three words translated "generation" in the New Testament. They are [gennema], [genos] and [genea]. And the root of all three refer to family or kin. By extension or by implication it can also mean a period of a family line, or even a Patriarch's offspring. For example, if someone declared that something occurred in the 4th generation, they would be telling us that it happened in the family period of the 4th child born. So it would be illustrating a "particular family relationship" removed by three from the Patriarch reference. Understanding this principle, we can see how God unambiguously uses the word generation in scripture to signify not only the Spiritual family of God, but also the spiritual family of His adversary Satan. These are of two contrasting and distinct seeds. Even as God Himself spoke of them in the garden as having enmity. The children of God and children of the Devil are two diverse and distinct generations or families from those two seeds. The family of God extends all the way back to Abel. And likewise, the family of Satan extends all the way back to Cain. Clearly, the way God uses the phrase, "the Generation of evil," makes it synonymous with the children (or family) of the Devil. It does not refer only to an immediate present family group. The Generation of evil refers to all the seed of the Serpent, throughout time, who are in that generation by their patriarchal relationship. Just as the children of God refer to the whole family of God, which is "a chosen generation" or family, that has existed throughout time. It's not just people who happen to be living at the time in which the phrase was written. God uses family relationships to illustrate those who are of the same spiritual kinship. e.g.


John 8:44
"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

Jesus is clearly elucidating the truths that they were part of a particular spiritual family group, and He identifies their father as the Devil. So we see that Satan is the spiritual Patriarch reference for this generation or family. And he has many children, not just these whom Christ was immediately speaking to. All those under Satan's spiritual control are the generation or kindred of evil, which existed from the beginning. In Biblical terms, they are the spiritual offspring or generation of their Patriarch reference, that old Serpent, Satan. When Christ speaks of the "generation of vipers," He is identifying that seed or family group who serve their father Satan. He is not talking about everyone in that physical time period. Or all living in that physical generation timespan.


Matthew 12:32-35
"And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.

O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things."

How can a family of vipers, the children of the serpent, speek good things, when they speak from the heart, which is full of evil. This generation [gennema] (meaning offspring or kindred) that Christ references is the seed of the serpent, the children of vipers. And that clearly cannot be the Apostles, John the Baptist, Mary, Elizabeth, or any of the true Church of that time. They cannot commit the unforgivable sin. Of necessity it has to be only the unregenerate 'family' of evil, who cannot escape the damnation of Hell. Not a generation, which would mean all those in that particular time frame. Therefore, when Christ calls them the generation of vipers, he is not referring to all those people of that time (as people often understand generation today), but he is speaking only of the seed of the serpent, Satan. It is a family (generation) of evil that cannot escape the damnation of Hell. And Satan their spiritual Patriarch father.


Matthew 23:32-34
Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:"

It is self evident that if this word means that all this generation (as many understand the word to mean) was all a bunch of vipers, children of their fathers who couldn't escape the damnation of hell, then it would mean the Apostles also. Because the Apostles were of that generation "if" the word Generation really meant what Praeterits believe it means. But obviously, Christ is not talking about all that physical generation, He is talking about those who are a generation (family) of vipers.


Matthew 24:3

"And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"
Of course we are well aware of some of the claims that the end of the age was in 70 AD, but that is a Biblically untenable position. The proponents of this theory come to this conclusion by selectively interpreting age/world [aion], and then arbitrarily making the supposition that there was an end of the age in 70 AD. This, despite the fact that there is absolutely no Biblical warrant for declaring 70 AD as the end of an age. Not one single scripture makes that claim. And while they insist Matthew 24 (the end of the world) is a mistranslation of the word [aion] meaning age, they are still unable to coherently explain verses such as Luke chapter 18:


Luke 18:30
"Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting."

This is the exact same Greek word [aion], meaning world/age. If that present time Jesus spoke in, was before 70 AD when they received manifold more, and the age to come was eternal life for them, then obviously 70 AD being the next age (according to their theory), must have been the age of eternal life Jesus spoke of. Did eternal life come after 70 AD? Did life everlasting start after 70 AD? No, not at all, it started at the cross, and is consummated at the end of the world/age. So this theory is truly bankrupt and void of any solid scriptural foundation. Jesus is obviously speaking not about an alleged coming age in 70 AD, but about the end of the world/age when He would return, and "all" would be fulfilled. That is the world/age to come, when we would receive the everlasting life. That is what the Disciples asked in Matthew 24. When would this timing be?

The fact is, this 70 AD doctrine is convoluted on many fronts, because there was never any Biblical foundation for making a prophecy of a new age established in 70 AD in the first place. Biblical Theology must be established on biblical foundations, not on inconsistent and contradictory supposition and theory. Of necessity these theologians would have to place another age between the cross and the end of the world for this theory to be true. In effect, splitting the New Testament period into diverse ages. The New Testament age before 70 AD that was established by Christ's cross, and another age after 70 AD, because their position on 70 AD is untenable without it. However, it is also quite unbiblical with it!
 
So let's review the context of Matthew 24 for our answer to the question of how to understand how the Generation should not pass. Jesus is warning the disciples (and all of us) about the coming wickedness (and particularly, those who call themselves of Christ), and how they will thrive as wolves in sheep's clothing, as false prophets, as false Christ's, with all the signs and deception. He speaks of a deception so clever that it would deceive even the elect (chosen) if that were possible. He tells the Apostles (and us) to watch, for these are the signs that will alert us of His soon second coming.

Supporting this, He says, "this generation shall not pass until all these things be fulfilled." Note carefully that He doesn't say some things might be fulfilled, but all these things must first be fulfilled. E.g., false Prophets, nation against nation, famines, pestilence and earthquakes in divers places. Things like these people delivering you up to be afflicted, and killed, and when you are hated of "all nations" for Christ's name's sake. Things like the abomination of desolation, the gospel preached to the entire world for a witness. Things like the great tribulation, the sun being darkened and the moon not giving light. Things like the stars falling from heaven, the powers of heaven being shaken, and the Son of man coming on the clouds of Glory, etc., etc. The only generation that shall not pass until all these things are fulfilled is "The Generation of Vipers," the family of evil.

A physical generation will pass and indeed has passed, and we still have all these things. But the generation of evil is the generation that produces the false Christs. Clearly, the generation of evil is a family relationship that runs from Adam and Eve's son Cain, until the time of Judgment (when all shall be fulfilled). This generation comprises the span of the history of the world. As long as there is the seed of the Serpent, there is this Generation. This Family.

Psalms 12:6-8
"The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

The wicked walk on every side, when the vilest men are exalted."

Preserve them from what generation [dowr], posterity or family? The people of David's day? No, not at all. From the generation Christ spoke of that shall not pass until all be fulfilled. Preserved for ever from the generation which is stigmatized as a generation of snakes and of evil. This generation will be on this earth until Christ returns on the clouds of Glory, and all is finally fulfilled. And it is "this generation" of evil that will be the family that shall be Judged of God. God spoke of this generation in Luke chapter 11.


Luke 11:50-51
"That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;"

From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.

Were all those people who were standing there (Generation, or all the physical people of that time) guilty of the blood of all the Prophets from Abel to Zacarias that they would be judged of God for those murders? God Forbid! The Apostles and the rest of those who believe who stood there won't have the blood of the Prophets required of them. That is quite obvious to anyone who knows anything about scripture, or of Christianity. So it cannot mean that age or time. God declares that every man is responsible only for his own sins, not the sins of others (Deuteronomy 24:16). So how is the blood of Abel and all of these Prophets required of "this generation" that Christ spoke of? It can only be because those who killed the Prophets, though they lived hundreds of years before Christ, were still all a part of that generation of which Christ spoke. Selah! All who are of the family of Satan "are part of the generation" that killed Abel. i.e., they are the seed of the Serpent.




Luke 11:29
"And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet".

This Greek word [genea] is likewise from the root word meaning kindred. It is the same word found in Matthew chapter 24 translated generation. Was Christ saying there would no sign be given to the wise men, the Apostles, or the 70 disciples that He sent out to witness two by two? Of course not. And yet they were physically part of the literal "time" generation of that day. But they were not part of generation that Christ was speaking of here. For Christ is not talking about the physical generation of that time anymore than He was talking about them in Matthew chapter 24. It is the evil and adulterous generation (or family) of the Serpent that shall receives no sign. None except that of Jonas the prophet (the scripture record). But the generation or family of Christ, He indeed has given signs (Mark 16:20, Hebrews 2:4).

That should be proof enough for any logical thinking person that this generation was not referring to mmen of a time period. These are two distinct generations. If we're only to understand the word "generation" to mean those living there at the time (as some insist we must), then none of the Apostles, nor anyone else in that day or that generation could escape the damnation of hell. Because Christ had said that "that generation" couldn't. But the truth is a lot less complicated, and in total agreement will the whole of scripture. The generation of evil is the one that shall receive no signs, and that cannot escape the damnation of hell, because it is the children or family of Satan. It is the seed of the Serpent.


Luke 21:32-34
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares."

Again, this word translated generation is [genea], same as it is in Matthew 24. It is often used to express family relationship or posterity. It is this family of evil that shall not pass away until all is fulfilled. This definition is also clearly demonstrated in the Septuagint, where in passages like Genesis 43:7 declaring, "The man asked us straitly of our kindred," the word Kindred is [genea]. Or in Numbers 10:30, "I will depart to my own kindred." Again, Kindred is the word [genea]. Likewise in Leviticus 20:18, "Both shall be cut off from their people." Here, the word people is [genea]. I quote the Septuagint only to demonstrate that clearly, the meaning of this word was clearly known of old, and used to denote "family." Thus it cannot be scholastically alleged that it must mean the term of man’s life in passages like matthew 24.


Luke 7:30-35
But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.

And the Lord said, Whereunto then shall I liken the men of this generation? and to what are they like

They are like unto children sitting in the marketplace, and calling one to another, and saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned to you, and ye have not wept.

For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil.

The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!

But wisdom is justified of all her children.

Were the Apostles the generation of evil, the children or seed of Satan, the family of the Devil? Most certainly not. God's word boldly declares that Christians are a chosen generation. So ask yourself a simple question. How can the people living at the time of Christ, be both called of God a chosen generation, and yet also be a generation that cannot escape the damnation of hell? The obvious answer is that they can't. For they are two separate generations or families that Christ spoke about. Would we say that "everyone" living there at the time must be part of the chosen generation just because someone arrogantly insists the word generation demands it? Not if we use common sense. The 'chosen generation' is the family of God, selected by God. It's not everyone living in that physical time period, nor is it only that time period.


1st Peter 2:9
"But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light:"

Here we see the "truth" of the matter. Only the true believers are the [eklektos genos] or chosen generation. Not everyone at the time this was written, but everyone throughout time who were Predestinated to be of the family of God (Galatians 3:26-29; 1st John 3:9-10). Because we have two distinct generations coexisting in this world. A generation of evil that cannot escape the damnation of hell, and a chosen generation of God that will inherit heaven. Both these generations, or families, spans eons of time.


Philippians 2:15
"That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;"

That Greek word that is translated "nation" is the exact same word [genea] that is translated generation in Matthew 24. It is illustrating the crooked and perverse people who are a "family" or generation of evil. This is that very same [genea] that shall not pass until all be fulfilled. Note that here in Philippians it is contrasted with "the sons of God," or the children of God, who shine as lights among them.

These generations aren't periods of time spanning ones life, they last until all is fulfilled at Christ's return. One generation shall not escape the damnation of Hell, and the other is a special people who shall (by Christ's blood) escape the damnation of Hell. The classic illustration of just this contrast, is found in the book of Luke, chapter 16:

Luke 16:8
"And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light."

Again, this is the exact same word [genea] that is found in Matthew chapter 24. It speaks of the wicked in their generation being a family wiser than the "children of Light." i.e., it's illustrating that in this way, the seed or children of God are not as smart as the seed or children of the Devil. And again, it's impossible that this word as used here refers simply to a literal life span.


The generation or children of this world, is the generation that the Lord was warning the Church against in Matthew chapter 24. The family of this world are a generation of evil, and it shall not pass until "all" be fulfilled. Comparing scripture with scripture, it would be ludicrous for anyone to insist that the word generation meant a present day generation in these passages, considering all the pertinent scriptures that use the word. Yet there are many that choose to make such untenable arguments. Nevertheless, we know some things for certain:

Number one, While some make the claim that the end of the age was in 70 AD, there is not one single scripture that supports such a conclusion, and many scriptures that preclude it. There was instituted a new dispensation (age) when Christ died, was resurrected, and sent His holy Spirit that the Church go forth to witness with power. But there was no new dispensation or age instituted years later in 70 AD.

Number two, there is nothing in scripture that declares the word translated "generation" must always be understood to mean people physically present at the time, and much of scripture that precludes it (as I've clearly shown).

Number three, there is abundant proof texts in scripture that the entire New Testament period was (and still is) the end times, the last days, and the last age, "indicating" that there would not be any other age following this one. Except of course, "the age to come," which is Christ's return and consummation in everlasting life. That is when "all" will be fulfilled as required by Matthew 24, and indeed by all of scripture. That is when this evil generation shall finally pass. Selah! That is when the kingdom will be delivered up to the father. This will occur at 'The last Day.'

Revelation 6:11
"And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."

When will all be fulfilled? When this evil generation is no longer ruling with the prince of this world. In other words, when Christ returns. There is this age, and the age to come, and no age in between. That's the whole purpose of God using the term "last days" to signify that there are no more days after these New Testament days. There are no more dispensations. It is self evident that contrary to interpretive license, the age of the last days was instituted by the death and resurrection of Christ, not in 70 AD. And the age to come is at the end of "this age" when Christ returns.

The generation that will not pass till all be fulfilled is the generation that the entire chapter of Matthew 24 so vividly warned against. In context, the false prophets, false teachers, deceivers, false Christs, abomination, tribulation, and all that this evil generation brings forth, will not pass until Christ's return. Then, and only then, will 'all' be fulfilled. Then and only then will this generation pass. Selah!

Peace,

http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/faq/generation.shtml
 
But let's look at them, because when we do, what you're going to find out, is
Now, did those words include the following?

Show me in Jesus' Olivet Discourse ie; Matthew 24:4-25:46, where He mentions the destruction of the "city and sanctuary".

Why is it that Futurists approach problems with their doctrine by trying to pit Scripture against itself?

What I notice, is that you could not dispute the facts that I presented to you. And so, because your doctrine is more important to you than what the Scriptures actually say, instead of just admitting that, you instead try jumping to a different set of verses, as if to say that what I showed you can't be true, because gee, look at these verses...
Jesus said -

What I say to you, I say to all.


You said -

how much ego and pure vanity it takes to believe that someone who talks to people of a certain time and plainly tells them that it's about them, in their time, is really talking to me (Futurists), today!
This may come as a shock to you Pastor Dave, but the scripture is not against itself, its against you!


that these very same verses that you try to use to support the idea that it's about 2,000 years later, actually condemn your view and tell you that it was about back then.

The question is; To whom was Jesus speaking when He said the things you quoted Him saying? I'm not asking who your doctrine claims He was speaking to, but rather, who He was actually standing there talking to?

The answer is very simple! He was standing there talking to the people He was looking at and speaking to! Words were coming out of HIs mouth and there were people standing there hearing them.
Again, Jesus said concerning His return -

35 Watch therefore, for you do not know when the master of the house is coming--in the evening, at midnight, at the crowing of the rooster, or in the morning-- 36 lest, coming suddenly, he find you sleeping. 37 And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!"


And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!"


The scripture is in direct opposition to what you said.

I have another news flash for you, so is this Forum!

Go and read it for yourself -
Cfnet holds the view full preterism is heresy.


"Watch therefore, for *YOU* do not know when the master of the house is coming--in the evening, at midnight, at the crowing of the rooster, or in the morning--lest, coming suddenly, he find *YOU* sleeping."
And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!"

The Gospel message is for all of us!


Just
Show me in Jesus' Olivet Discourse ie; Matthew 24:4-25:46, where He mentions the destruction of the "city and sanctuary".


Please show me a scripture where it is written that there will never be another temple built!

Please show me in scripture where it is written that the Gospel message only pertains to the folks alive at the time of Jesus!


JLB
 
Matthew 24:33-34
"So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

The problem is, many people understand that this Chapter is speaking about later day occurrences, and so they are puzzled as to how the phrase, "this generation," fits the context. The confusion exists because the average Christian is unaware that there are several ways that this Greek word [genea], translated generation, is used in scripture. This is in contrast to extra-biblical or secular dictionary definitions. First of all it is from the root word [genos] meaning kindred or family. In conjunction with that, it is used three distinct ways within scripture.

1. It can be used to denote a physical family generation or bloodline.
2. It can be used to denote the spiritual family or generation of evil.
3. And it can be used to denote the spiritual family or generation of Christ.

First of all, when you post long articles like this, that are written by someone else, it shows that *you* *yourself* do not know the subject.

Secondly, this is nothing more than an attempt to weasel around what Jesus said. There is absolutely zero indication that He was speaking to anyone except those He was speaking to and that's why He looked at THEM and said :"when YOU see....". Futurism ignores all of this.

Thirdly, this approach ignores the fact of the context of the discussion, which includes Matt 23.

Lastly, this attempt to single out the word "genea" is nothing but a word game. The fact is, the word is not all by itself, but rather, is part of the statement of "this generation". And it is ridiculous to assume that any other generation was meant.

You would not say "this generation" today and mean any other generation but the current one. Why do you assign some sort of backwarrds language to them?

EDITED

EDITED

The fact is, the term "houtos genea" (this generation) is never used anywhere in the NT to mean anything but that current generation and playing word games is not going to save your doctrine!

And as for the rambling about the Greek word "aion", it does mean "age". It's not "selective translation". That is being done by those who translate it as "world", when in fact, the Greek word that should be translated into "world", is "kosmos" and exactly that is done in the NT and two good examples of it are found in Matt 13:35 & John 1:9.
 
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Thirdly, this approach ignores the fact of the context of the discussion, which includes Matt 23.
Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, Matthew 23:1


1 Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said to them, "Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down." 3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?" Matthew 24:1-3



Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes - Matthew 23

Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, -Matthew 24


Either you are being deceptive and twisting the scriptures or you are just ignorant of the scriptures and the context, either way -

You couldn't be more wrong!


JLB
 
Luke 21 never explicitly mentions the destruction of the temple. (I mean, after Luke 21:5-6.)

However, we see that (very likely) the subject is picked up again implicitly in Luke 21:20-24.

So that Matthew 24 never explicitly mentions the destruction of the temple... so what? We can easily see it as implied, just as with Luke 21.


Jesus was never asked to give more description of the event. Jesus was asked about the timing of the event. ("Tell us, when shall these things be?")

You complain that Jesus doesn't provide something in the chapter, when Jesus wasn't asked for that anyway!
 
, The context of discussion in Matthew 24 and Matthew 25 is "The return of Jesus Christ" aka the coming of the Son of Man.

[FONT=&quot]Where is the phrase destruction of the temple or the temple destroyed, or Sanctuary destroyed in Matthew 24 or 25?

The Lord said these words -"Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

Yet In His answer we don't find the phrase Temple Destroyed, Sanctuary Destroyed, as in Daniel, or [FONT=&quot] not one stone shall be left here upon another[/FONT]
[/FONT].

We do find it in Luke 21, but not Matthew 24 or 25.


Luke 21 doesn't mention a "temple destroyed" either. Sorry, but it isn't in there! It mentions an attack on Jerusalem, but it never says that the temple gets destroyed.
 
Luke 21 never explicitly mentions the destruction of the temple. (I mean, after Luke 21:5-6.)

However, we see that (very likely) the subject is picked up again implicitly in Luke 21:20-24.

So that Matthew 24 never explicitly mentions the destruction of the temple... so what? We can easily see it as implied, just as with Luke 21.


Jesus was never asked to give more description of the event. Jesus was asked about the timing of the event. ("Tell us, when shall these things be?")

You complain that Jesus doesn't provide something in the chapter, when Jesus wasn't asked for that anyway!

You complain that Jesus doesn't provide something in the chapter...

Thats funny!

I am glad that you recognize the fact that Jesus chose not to mention the destruction of the city and sanctuary in Matthew!


JLB
 
Luke 21 doesn't mention a "temple destroyed" either. Sorry, but it isn't in there! It mentions an attack on Jerusalem, but it never says that the temple gets destroyed.

Okay, if you want to believe the temple wasn't destroyed in the attack on Jerusalem, then that is your choice.


JLB
 
First of all, when you post long articles like this, that are written by someone else, it shows that *you* *yourself* do not know the subject.

Secondly, this is nothing more than an attempt to weasel around what Jesus said. There is absolutely zero indication that He was speaking to anyone except those He was speaking to and that's why He looked at THEM and said :"when YOU see....". Futurism ignores all of this.

Thirdly, this approach ignores the fact of the context of the discussion, which includes Matt 23.

Lastly, this attempt to single out the word "genea" is nothing but a word game. The fact is, the word is not all by itself, but rather, is part of the statement of "this generation". And it is ridiculous to assume that any other generation was meant.

You would not say "this generation" today and mean any other generation but the current one. Why do you assign some sort of backwarrds language to them?

Why do you try to make them into idiots who lack even common sense and who talk backwards to each other?

Why are you so arrogant, that you believe that no one else could understand what they "really" meant, until *you* were born?

The fact is, the term "houtos genea" (this generation) is never used anywhere in the NT to mean anything but that current generation and playing word games is not going to save your doctrine!

And as for the rambling about the Greek word "aion", it does mean "age". It's not "selective translation". That is being done by those who translate it as "world", when in fact, the Greek word that should be translated into "world", is "kosmos" and exactly that is done in the NT and two good examples of it are found in Matt 13:35 & John 1:9.

I'm not going to keep responding to the pasting in of articles. As I said, it just proves to me that you are clueless regarding this subject and you will desperately try to hang on to whatever anyone says, regardless of how ridiculous it actually is. But you're not going to spend 30 seconds pasting something in and then demand that someone else deal with every detail of it! And that is exactly what you're doing when you paste garbage like that in, since silence would be considered submission to it, as if it were fact, when it isn't. Pasting like this is a cop out. It shows that you'll submit to anything anyone says, as long as they end it with, "it's all about you today".

I'm sorry to seem so harsh, but sometimes that's what people need, to get their noggin working. :)

Besides that, I will admit that I do get a bit tired of Futurists all playing the same game and caring more about themselves and this world and making it about them today and this world, than about the truth of the Scriptures.

Simple question

Where is the promise of His coming??????
 
You complain that Jesus doesn't provide something in the chapter...

Thats funny!

I am glad that you recognize the fact that Jesus chose not to mention the destruction of the city and sanctuary in Matthew!


JLB


It's funny that you duck the point. :)
 
Okay, if you want to believe the temple wasn't destroyed in the attack on Jerusalem, then that is your choice.


JLB


The point is (and it seems you want to duck it) is that the temple destruction is NEVER explicitly mentioned in Luke 21.

So why demand such a thing for Matthew 24?
 
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