The DSM III

[Edward]

My dad sent me a copy of this book years ago. I've read it a lot but by no means have read the entire thing, lol. This book is the Diagnostic & Statistical Manual for mental disorders and I thought it was a piece of crap when I read it.

This book is dangerous because it perpetuates athe lie of Psychiatry. The way they word things in it, you could diagnose your dog or anyone with a mental disorder. This book just felt like crap reading it. I didn't know why, it was just a feeling. Now a Psychiatric professional agrees with me and tells why.

Oh my God, Tom Cruise was right, lol. Finally.

There is no biological connection to the lions share of mental disorders, only the organic disorders which are very rare.

Question: How would make the Psychiatry industry thrive?

Answer: By getting people to believe that they have a mental disorder. Do not tell yourself that you have a mental disorder.

It was just a feeling I had. Intuition. But I'm right and here's the evidence for it. Voting is not even scientific, lol.

 

[Milk-Drops]

Just like any medical text there is application and training to use it properly.it is the same reason why it's not a good idea to scour web md in place of going to a Dr.

As a person who worked with psychological services with mentally ill and developmentally challenged individuals, lables and diagnosises are not just thrown around.

Psychiatrists work woth their patience to figure out what kind of help they need. Many disorders have similar criteria, but require different treatments. As the field ages the procedures will become more accurate.

 

[Milk-Drops]

Also the DSM III was published 42 years ago, and since we are on then5th edition now, a huge chunk of that book is out of date.

 

[Christ_empowered]

I dunno. I'm...how do I put this?...not "antipsychiatry" as a -lifestyle- (no, really; on Mad in America, they had a moving obituary for a lady who survived a hellish hospitalization and then spent -decades- actively fighting psychiatry, etc.), but more as...

a means to an end, I suppose? In Christ, that's about all I see the many different versions of antipsychiatry in the 21st century really being good for, as a (former) "mental patient," all that. the people who stick at it are often "dissident" experts and/or writers who have an intere$t in continuing to examine the material over and over (and...over...). and so...

I'm 38. I've only been hospitalized 2x. both were "voluntary," in the private hospital sort of way; sign yourself in or...else. -shudder- That was before I met Jesus and He changed my life and me, thru and thru. Thankfully...

the 1st one was -hell- and it was at age 20. The second one was far less intense but still unpleasant, more fraud and over billing...

but it only lasted 5 days. That was age 23.

The drugs that "treat (insert name of "serious mental illness" HERE)" don't really -fix- anything. I think one exception is lithium, kind of...its a mineral that the body uses in -very- small amounts, anyway. at super high doses, it exerts a tranquilizing effect (lower doses are sometimes in depression...), which is part of how it came to be used in "bipolar disorder" after a "manic episode" was on the record. and yet...

truth? even lithium is dangerous at the regularly prescribed dosages. kidney damage is common, even at the lower doses used in some recurrent depressive disorders. it's probably -because- its a mineral that they body uses, anyway, that it also has a distinctive discontinuation syndrome. as in...

stop lithium, the underlying "disorder(s)" tend to return, plus a withdrawal syndrome caused by the brain trying to figure out how to do life without toxic doses of lithium. what fun. :-(

I dunno. It'd be one thing if...people really did get better, if the "professionals" really wanted to help....never been my experience. Its not just me, of course. I -was- on the extreme end of psychiatric casualty/"victim of psychiatry," to the extent that a brain scan showed I should probably not be alive (no, really). and that's the thing...

the psychiatric "solution" to whatever ails you (or...troubles those -around- you, honestly) is...drugs and labels and brain damage. Its all about control, subtracting from people, confining people, profiting off of people and bad situations, lying to people, and...

yeah. yeah. -not- a field that I'd consider good for humanity. and...not of God or compatible with Jesus' teachings, either. that's my honest opinion.

 

[Christ_empowered]

the cruelty many shrinks dish out on at least -some- patients (I was one of "those" patients, btw) is extreme. I'm talking about "good" (read: private practice, all that) doctors, not the pill mill shrinks found in some cities. and...

blah. in my late teens, a shrink deliberately got me hooked on benzodiazepines by prescription (I had severe anxiety), apparently hoping to get money (long story). even when I had health problems (some of which were related to the prescribed drugs, deliberate over-medication), shrinks wanted my parents to pay out of pocket. shrinks wanted to put me in a homeless shelter after doing involuntary shock and telling me I'd tested + for HIV+. no treatment for the HIV+ was prescribed, no referral, not even a discussion of what treatment should entail. and...

on and on. evil, power hungry, money hungry, and they lie. they lie like other people breathe, I'm telling you.

 

[Milk-Drops]

I'll put it this way, the field has a way to go with improvement, and I will say I have seen fraud myself. A lot of that hS more to do with the motivations of how capital works. Medicine needs to make money to fir in a capitalist system and there will always be people there to take advantage of that. Don't get me started on non profits, I have seen so many shenanigans and some of the slimmiest people run them.

 

[Christ_empowered]

its worse with psychiatry than other specialties because they treat fake diseases. fraud is easy when one can make it all up...

plus, being able to hospitalize people/customers/victims/"patients" to get more money and the use of drugs, many of which have serious abuse and/or dependence potential...

-perfect storm- blah :-(

 

[Edward]

Also the DSM III was published 42 years ago, and since we are on then5th edition now, a huge chunk of that book is out of date.

So you didn't watch it.

Hey they took being homosexual out of the DSM. It was in DSM III as a disorder but is gone now.

Just like any medical text there is application and training to use it properly.it is the same reason why it's not a good idea to scour web md in place of going to a Dr.

As a person who worked with psychological services with mentally ill and developmentally challenged individuals, lables and diagnosises are not just thrown around.

Psychiatrists work woth their patience to figure out what kind of help they need. Many disorders have similar criteria, but require different treatments. As the field ages the procedures will become more accurate.

Your argument isn't with me. It's with the PhD who gave the lecture! My only point was that I knew that book (and series!) to be trash before this video came out.

So the PhD agrees with me and disagrees with you. Maybe he knows something?!

 

[Christ_empowered]

it isn't actually medicine is the thing. see...

cancer? shows up on blood work and other labs. it is a -biologically rooted- entity that responds to various forms of available treatment. that makes it a real doctor's territory.

same with the vast majority of illnesses treated by real doctors. I think "chronic fatigue syndrome" is still something of a mystery, but..??? alzheimer's and various forms of dementia -were- very mysterious, but now there's more research, etc., and new/novel treatments that seem to be making real, bona fide progress towards both suppressing symptoms associated with the (much better understood) malady -and- towards improving quality of life and extending the lives of the afflicted. and then...

"(severe) mental illness." I'll focus on -severe- because...when the going gets rough, the shrinks point to "Schizophrenia." true story. The most prominent dissident shrink I can think of, Dr.Thomas Szasz, has a whole book on "schizophrenia" as psychiatry's "sacred symbol." is it...real? never has shown up on blood work, brain scan, or even autopsy. psych "treatment" shows up on autopsy, because...drugs change brain structure. caffeine does, street drugs do, the various drugs prescribed by shrinks -definitely- do...

and, sadly, the "lifesaving medications for schizophrenia" tend to be among the most potentially brain damaging drugs in the psych arsenal. blah. :-(

so...deal is, "depression" is a myth (per Szasz), but misery is -very- real, and chronic misery can create chronic distress which can, of course, affect functioning in various areas of life. "anxiety" is a difficult one. fear is real, obviously. when is it...a problem? and when it is a problem...for -whom- is this a problem, and what is their recommended treatment? and...why?

rambling...

I enjoy Szasz for his clarity of thought and rather witty writing. He was a right wing libertarian (Goldwater fan!), so...not eye to eye with him on the "welcome to the jungle" view of the economy, society, and...life, really...

but he -was- a psychiatrist, so he "knew a thing or two," etc.

fun fact: the never ending "research into new treatments and biomarkers" for Schizophrenia, etc. is a bunch of lies, too. I just recently had a med check. chit chat, nice enough...he was clearly containing his impatience when I asked about tardive dyskinesia (usually facial tics, can affect other areas) risk with my "atypical" (read: newer, less brain damaging but somehow more weight-gaining, etc.) tranquilizer, and...

yeah. shrinks need "Schizophrenia" (and "Schizophrenics," too), but my "lifesaving treatment" is based mostly upon a 10-15 minute med check. basically, in and out...this time I'm out for a good 6 months. progress? I mean...I don't enjoy going to the clinic, so...yes? works for me, at any rate. and...

keep in mind; if I -didn't- have my well to do(ish) parents solidly behind me, I'd probably be homeless...because of psychiatry. as it is now, people openly say "he needs to be COMMITTED!," because...

psychiatry is really just another form of social control. I'm an outsider, chronically unemployed, had a shady past, and have been labeled, etc., so I'm basically regarded as an idle poor person (in old times, that'd end in the work house...in modern America, the options seem to be prison, group homes, or state hospital...), and access to my parents' resources, their clout, etc...

-infuriates- the locals. I know this because I just dropped off my HOA dues and the ladies in the office were doing the mind game thing (talk loudly about me so I can hear, not loudly enough for it to be yelling, etc.). blah. thankfully, the check goes in a slot, no face to face interaction required.

so, what to make of it? I dunno. lol. :-( at a personal level, during the med check, it dawned on me that I haven't really heard voices or had weird, disturbing things going on in my mind for...a nice, long, while. so...was I Schizophrenic, then, labeled and then now I'm not, but "Schizophrenia" is the only "role" in today's society that I can deal with, bear up under, and that will afford me any real freedom (long story...) ? -shrug- I dunno. stress, distress, madness...these things are real...

but are they -illnesses- , to be dealt with by doctors? I don't think so, honestly. Whatever...ailed me...ails me no longer 1st because of Jesus, 2ndly because of my amazing, long suffering parents. and...

she asked, and I thought about it, and..."disturbing thoughts" ? there are no "anti-bad thoughts" pills. there are tranquilizers. vets use some of the antipsychotics/tranquilizers to subdue unruly animals. "hearing voices" ? could be a result of drugs, stress, any number of things...

again: tranquilizers? short term not so terrible, at least with the newer ones. long term? omg, rough. one of the terms early shrinks coined to describe what Thorazine did to people...

"tranquilizer psychosis," it consists of apathy, disinterest, tremor, and (I think...) flattened emotions, some degree of sedation. this vs the psychosis (whatever flavor) the person had initially. blah.

in Christ, I've been freed from the original...whatever one chooses to call It. maybe a predictable reaction to a life that started hard and turned harder and seemingly pointless, because of the combo of sin, satan, self, and the world?

ok. so...I saw this illustration, to explain what -really- happens when Jesus saves a human being...

2 lines run parallel, then one line does a 90 degree angle far, far away from the other line. Jesus has intervened.

I guess in my case...Jesus intervened so I wouldn't have to be confined and all the other stuff that happens to deviants and "society's rejects," and...yeah. I am thankful. dealing with the clinic...often not fun, but its 100x better than I imagine anything the world had (and has, probably) for me. other people end up coming out of crime, drugs, outwardly awesome but spiritually dead lives...


on and on. what did it cost me? "free gift of salvation," right? -shrug- honestly, all it cost me (thus so far) was/is my self, the old me and his ways and such (ongoing....nearly 10 years in, I'd like to think Jesus has brought me a long, long, long way....), which lines up with Scripture on dying to self, taking up one's cross, "...it is no longer I who lives, but Christ who lives in me..."

and that's another, bigger, far more -vital- reason I'm becoming...wary of, sometimes borderline disgusted by the mental health industry. I don't think anything can truly "help" a human being when the very core is dark and runs counter to Jesus' ministry and message. Truth? I still find Szasz brilliant and witty, but..

He's dead. Jesus lives. My -big- issue with psychiatry is that its so antithetical to The Good News that I sometimes truly, honestly think there's a demonic element. blah.

 

[Edward]

The Good News that I sometimes truly, honestly think there's a demonic element.

WHy would't there be? Remember when Daniel made his 21 day fast and then an Angel came to him? The Angel said that he was delayed by, The prince of the power of Persia.

We wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities and wicked ones from high places. Now that's all scripture and the way I fugure it is, if any of the scripture is true, then it has to be true.

So is there a prince of the power of the United States? I would think so. And whoever he is, he's got Psychiatry in his hand as a tool. So do be careful what you say to those guys.

 

[Christ_empowered]

that's the thing...

psychiatry is so evil that it doesn't matter what I actually -say- , especially in my case. the hatchet job they did on me was bad enough, now....

Jesus and my parents are the only people who keep the shrinks -- who definitely do not represent -my- interests -- from ripping me to shreds, again. ugh.

 

[Edward]

Just like any medical text there is application and training to use it properly.it is the same reason why it's not a good idea to scour web md in place of going to a Dr.

You seem to be missing the point. There was zero scientific bases for all of the disorders (Organic disorders notwithstanding). They selected top people in the field from the universities and stuff and sat around a table discussing what should go in the book, and they always wound up voting on it.

Voting is not scientific bro. So you go on and embrace that book if you want to, but it is a foundationless book.

...designed to make money and designed to sell pills. And many times the pills actually do way more harm than good. They simply supressed the bad trials and cherry picked the good ones, so this is the day and age where it is prudent to be careful what so called medications one injests.

 

[Milk-Drops]

You seem to be missing the point. There was zero scientific bases for all of the disorders (Organic disorders notwithstanding). They selected top people in the field from the universities and stuff and sat around a table discussing what should go in the book, and they always wound up voting on it.

Voting is not scientific bro. So you go on and embrace that book if you want to, but it is a foundationless book.

...designed to make money and designed to sell pills. And many times the pills actually do way more harm than good. They simply supressed the bad trials and cherry picked the good ones, so this is the day and age where it is prudent to be careful what so called medications one injests.

You are looking at a book from 42 years ago and many disorders have been removed or reclassified since then.

 

[evenifigoalone]

 

[Milk-Drops]

You seem to be missing the point. There was zero scientific bases for all of the disorders (Organic disorders notwithstanding).

Ok, This is going to take a lot of nerdsplaining. Psychiatry as a medical field spent its early years testing methods based on pioneering works. As the field has matured and more information from psychology and neurology comes available, practices are changed. It's just like how all medicine has changed.

They selected top people in the field from the universities and stuff and sat around a table discussing what should go in the book, and they always wound up voting on it.

That's because this is a text book and not a medical journal. Research goes into journals and is added to texts after it has been shown to be applicable in the field, or replaces lack luster information.

Voting is not scientific bro. So you go on and embrace that book if you want to, but it is a foundationless book.

That's the thing no one is arguing that voting to include specific disorders or to be completely honest leaving information about older disorders for refrence.

...designed to make money and designed to sell pills. And many times the pills actually do way more harm than good.

This is how I know you dont know much about psychiatry or practice. Unless we are talking about a really bad Dr. Psychiatrists have to follow a ton of laws and regulations around meds. They need to meet with you, establish criteria, then they can prescribe you meds. If the med falls on the narcotic side blood tests, drug screens, contacting your regular Dr., etc comes into play.

If the meds don't work, they can be changed. If the meds have side effects that impact worse than help, they can be changed.

Unless your insurance company decides they know more than your Dr and won't cover your meds
That's way more fun.

They simply supressed the bad trials and cherry picked the good ones, so this is the day and age where it is prudent to be careful what so called medications one injests.

The DSM is a collectionnof disorders, not medication. That's more to do with research fraud than the DSM.

 

[evenifigoalone]

This is how I know you dont know much about psychiatry or practice. Unless we are talking about a really bad Dr. Psychiatrists have to follow a ton of laws and regulations around meds. They need to meet with you, establish criteria, then they can prescribe you meds. If the med falls on the narcotic side blood tests, drug screens, contacting your regular Dr., etc comes into play.

Yep. Meet monthly w/ a nurse practitioner to see how my meds are working for me, if my mental health is stable, and if I need any changes to my meds. If she sees a trend over several months or I appear to be in crisis, she will change the meds.
The good thing is, you have control over your care (so long as you are not deemed to be a danger to yourself or others). If you have a doc who isn't listening to your needs, you can quit and go to another doc. You can (and should) get a second opinion if you believe you've been misdiagnosed.

I have heard horror stories, but just about all them are related to inpatient care - heard stories of laws being broken, like for example one person said that they were forced to accept their diagnosis and sign the paper or be given a "shot". This is why if I ever were actively suicidal, I would be researching the best place for me to go.

 

[Edward]

Yep. Meet monthly w/ a nurse practitioner to see how my meds are working for me, if my mental health is stable, and if I need any changes to my meds. If she sees a trend over several months or I appear to be in crisis, she will change the meds.
The good thing is, you have control over your care (so long as you are not deemed to be a danger to yourself or others). If you have a doc who isn't listening to your needs, you can quit and go to another doc. You can (and should) get a second opinion if you believe you've been misdiagnosed.

I have heard horror stories, but just about all them are related to inpatient care - heard stories of laws being broken, like for example one person said that they were forced to accept their diagnosis and sign the paper or be given a "shot". This is why if I ever were actively suicidal, I would be researching the best place for me to go.

Your little meme post seems to indicate that you have quite a bit of bitterness in your heart towards me. Now learn a spiritual truth:

Jesus did not command us to forgive all people to be a mean or strict God, ok? He was trying to help us because He knows that bitterness kept within ones heart towards anyone will hurt you more than it does anyone else. Bitterness is a seed which grows like anything else and it inhibits our spiritual growth and grows in our heart until it takes over our entire heart into blackness.

Surely bitterness and bad behavior is not what the Lord is teaching you, Your demonstration of bitterness hurts only yourself., so on that note, I rest my case. Please don't go off your medication!

 

[evenifigoalone]

Your little meme post seems to indicate that you have quite a bit of bitterness in your heart towards me. Now learn a spiritual truth:

Jesus did not command us to forgive all people to be a mean or strict God, ok? He was trying to help us because He knows that bitterness kept within ones heart towards anyone will hurt you more than it does anyone else. Bitterness is a seed which grows like anything else and it inhibits our spiritual growth and grows in our heart until it takes over our entire heart into blackness.

Surely bitterness and bad behavior is not what the Lord is teaching you, Your demonstration of bitterness hurts only yourself., so on that note, I rest my case. Please don't go off your medication!

I don't think I'm going to take spiritual advice from you, not after many of the things you've said to me. Thanks though.

 

[Edward]

I don't think I'm going to take spiritual advice from you, not after many of the things you've said to me. Thanks though.

So your inflammatory post is the best fruits of the spirit that you have? Too bad though. I started this thread and if you don't want want me talking to you then don't talk to me or jump in my threads with silly crap.

I'll pray for you because it sounds like you need it bad.

 

[evenifigoalone]

So your inflammatory post is the best fruits of the spirit that you have? Too bad though. I started this thread and if you don't want want me talking to you then don't talk to me or jump in my threads with silly crap.

I'll pray for you because it sounds like you need it bad.

If you want to continue this discussion, I suggest you PM me. I won't pull the thread off-topic.