Bible Study The Exchange Of Nature's

[Soul man]

A very good place to see the exchange of nature's is in Romans 7:1-4,
7 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Paul is showing here that nothing could separate the man and woman in marriage but death.
Can you see that, under the law there was no divorce, there had to be a death of one or the other.
The woman being the soul/mind and the husband being the sin-nature in this case.
Nothing anybody did could separate the two, only death could bring an end to being bound by marriage.
You can see the dominion the old man had over the woman brought bondage.
This was not a love relationship, it was one of domination and bondage.
That is exactly what the cross did it killed out, crucified, and completely destroyed the sin-nature.
The sin of Adam was now nailed to the cross.
When Jesus said "it is finished" and gave up the Ghost, the old man was dead.
What I did for years and others have done is, we pluck the fruit (Sins of the flesh) and it just grows back.
With out any knowledge sin was dealt it's death punch on the cross.
We confuse the sins of the flesh for the old man who is crucified in Christ.
This is what it means to preach the cross, death to sin, and alive to God through the lord Jesus Christ.
The enemies of the cross are those that preach, sin really didnt die at the cross and the believer stills needs to clean himself up, beware because their on ever hand to help you try to straighten up and live for God.
You couldn't do it before the cross what makes you think you can do it now.
That is what religion is, "mans attempt to please God," like there was no cross. If man could have pleased god on their own there would be no need for a cross.
That is deceptive, deceitful, and the greatest evil perpetrated by man on humanity "the spirit of error" the scriptures call it.
Do not fall in this trap, it will be hard to overcome.

Now Romans 4 Paul is trying to explain to the Jewish people that faith was not Annulled when the law came into effect, and now by faith there is access to God through grace, Romans 5:2,
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
As well as, Ephesians 2:8,
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

But at the same time even the great faith of Abraham could not get rid of the sin-nature.
It took the death of Jesus on the cross to crucify the old man.

 

[JLB]

A very good place to see the exchange of nature's is in Romans 7:1-4,
7 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Paul is showing here that nothing could separate the man and woman in marriage but death.
Can you see that, under the law there was no divorce, there had to be a death of one or the other.
The woman being the soul/mind and the husband being the sin-nature in this case.
Nothing anybody did could separate the two, only death could bring an end to being bound by marriage.
You can see the dominion the old man had over the woman brought bondage.
This was not a love relationship, it was one of domination and bondage.
That is exactly what the cross did it killed out, crucified, and completely destroyed the sin-nature.
The sin of Adam was now nailed to the cross.
When Jesus said "it is finished" and gave up the Ghost, the old man was dead.
What I did for years and others have done is, we pluck the fruit (Sins of the flesh) and it just grows back.
With out any knowledge sin was dealt it's death punch on the cross.
We confuse the sins of the flesh for the old man who is crucified in Christ.
This is what it means to preach the cross, death to sin, and alive to God through the lord Jesus Christ.
The enemies of the cross are those that preach, sin really didnt die at the cross and the believer stills needs to clean himself up, beware because their on ever hand to help you try to straighten up and live for God.
You couldn't do it before the cross what makes you think you can do it now.
That is what religion is, "mans attempt to please God," like there was no cross. If man could have pleased god on their own there would be no need for a cross.
That is deceptive, deceitful, and the greatest evil perpetrated by man on humanity "the spirit of error" the scriptures call it.
Do not fall in this trap, it will be hard to overcome.

Now Romans 4 Paul is trying to explain to the Jewish people that faith was not Annulled when the law came into effect, and now by faith there is access to God through grace, Romans 5:2,
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
As well as, Ephesians 2:8,
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

But at the same time even the great faith of Abraham could not get rid of the sin-nature.
It took the death of Jesus on the cross to crucify the old man.

This is a good subject to discuss.

Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? 2 For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband. 3 So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man. 4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.
Romans 7:1-4

Key points:

• for I speak to those who know the law), that the law...

Paul is addressing the Jewish Christians in the Church at Rome. Paul is teaching them, so that they can expound on these truth to the Gentiles who are not as learned in the scriptures, and how the Old Testament illustrated many eternal truths.

Gentiles would not be aware of the guidelines that the law required, and in this case, marriage requirements.

The Lord Himself was Israel's Husband.

not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day thatI took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them,says the Lord. Jeremiah 31:32

• My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them,

Are we in agreement so far?


JLB

 

[atpollard]

Are we in agreement so far?

I may not count, since the question was not adressed to me, but I agree.

 

[atpollard]

I think Romans 7:1-2 are also just illustrating the basic point taken on face value as well.
The OT Law only applies while a man lives. Take the example of marriage, the Law of marriage is terminated by the death of one of the members. So the Law does not extend beyond death. He is setting the stage for his next point.

 

[atpollard]

I tend to be a strong believer in scripture having meaning on multiple levels to illustrate the same truths found in the Bible over and over.

 

[JLB]

I may not count, since the question was not adressed to me, but I agree.

Of course. I hope that all will share on the discussion point.


JLB

 

[JLB]

I think Romans 7:1-2 are also just illustrating the basic point taken on face value as well.
The OT Law only applies while a man lives. Take the example of marriage, the Law of marriage is terminated by the death of one of the members. So the Law does not extend beyond death. He is setting the stage for his next point.

Yes sir. I agree with you.

I will continue to expound on these points that Paul makes, so as to conclude with what He is wanting to teach, as well as who he is teaching.

Trying to do it all in one post would be too long.

And, since the law and the Christian is a controversial subject, I'm hoping we can all come to the same conclusion that Paul is making, which will set the stage for the rest of Chapter 7 and 8.



JLB

 

[Soul man]

This is a good subject to discuss.

Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? 2 For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband. 3 So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man. 4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.
Romans 7:1-4

Key points:

• for I speak to those who know the law), that the law...

Paul is addressing the Jewish Christians in the Church at Rome. Paul is teaching them, so that they can expound on these truth to the Gentiles who are not as learned in the scriptures, and how the Old Testament illustrated many eternal truths.

Gentiles would not be aware of the guidelines that the law required, and in this case, marriage requirements.

The Lord Himself was Israel's Husband.

not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day thatI took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them,says the Lord. Jeremiah 31:32

• My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them,

Are we in agreement so far?


JLB

Yes I would agree with you as well as atpollard.
You both bring strong points to these verses. I have viewed these particular verses from a few different angles.
The word seems to do that in time for the student of the word, you may get a different understanding from the same verse from time to time.
Most of my understanding has been through that type of teaching by the HolySpirit, just as atpollard pointed out.
The exchange of nature's is what I'm seeing here.
As far as the law, they knew the law and Paul had no need to teach them the law. But use's the law as an analogy to nature being unchangeable without a death separating the two.
Seeing the two Nature's in scripture (sin-nature and The Father's nature, which is in Christ), in the seed, and the birthing (born again) are two understandings in the scriptures that are keystone to the believers mind renewal.
It solves alot of doctrinal issues for those that split hairs over difference in opinion.
Because you know how far opinion gets us.

 

[Soul man]

I think Romans 7:1-2 are also just illustrating the basic point taken on face value as well.
The OT Law only applies while a man lives. Take the example of marriage, the Law of marriage is terminated by the death of one of the members. So the Law does not extend beyond death. He is setting the stage for his next point.

Another thing that has helped me was understanding that the Father wanted to have a one to one, face to face, nature to nature relationship with His creation.
I get that from Hebrews 1:5,
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
The last line of this verse describes
a nature to nature relationship.

And also John 3:6 talks about it,
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
The key word is "born" which means spirit is not created but comes through a birthing.

So now the way to have a relationship with our Father is through the Son-nature that was birthed in us the moment we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, Romans 1:9,
9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;

The mind becomes the most important component for the believer, by the renewing of the mind the believer can begin to express all his/her Father has ever wanted from the onset of creation.
The letter of the law of do-dont do does not exist for the born again.
Only the love covenant of the new creature expressing themselves as one that is in total oneness with their Father, by Christ.
If they love their Father more than they love themselves, they will not need to be told what to do or how to do it.
I'll give an example; we counsel people, most are Christians. Various situations as you know in life, from marriage, to addictions, to unhealthy relationships, so on and so forth.
In counseling you never want to give just a pat answer, because those that need counseling need to talk as well as listen. So time must be given to the situation.
You do what you can to address the situation, and the strong pulls of the flesh.
But when it comes down to it the only true answer for anyone's problem no matter what it is, "do you love the Christ in you" more than you love yourself." Remember Jesus saying "if you love me you will keep my Commandments."

 

[atpollard]

Another thing that has helped me was understanding that the Father wanted to have a one to one, face to face, nature to nature relationship with His creation.

You can also see that in the creation of Adam. EVERYTHING else, God simply spoke and it was so, but that was not intimate enough for the creation of Adam. God formed man from the dust of the ground. That implies God reaching his hands into the mud to shape man with his own bare hands. Yet even that was not intimate enough, because God then breathed life into Adam's nostrils. That carries the mental image of God placing his mouth over Adam's mouth and nose and breathing the very breath of God into the corpse of Adam to make Adam a living being.

It don't get much more intimate than that. (Until the Holy Spirit comes to dwell INSIDE of us so that we can be sealed as dwelling forever in Christ who is forever ONE with the Father.)

 

[Soul man]

You can also see that in the creation of Adam. EVERYTHING else, God simply spoke and it was so, but that was not intimate enough for the creation of Adam. God formed man from the dust of the ground. That implies God reaching his hands into the mud to shape man with his own bare hands. Yet even that was not intimate enough, because God then breathed life into Adam's nostrils. That carries the mental image of God placing his mouth over Adam's mouth and nose and breathing the very breath of God into the corpse of Adam to make Adam a living being.

It don't get much more intimate than that. (Until the Holy Spirit comes to dwell INSIDE of us so that we can be sealed as dwelling forever in Christ who is forever ONE with the Father.)[/QUOTE

 

[Soul man]

You can also see that in the creation of Adam. EVERYTHING else, God simply spoke and it was so, but that was not intimate enough for the creation of Adam. God formed man from the dust of the ground. That implies God reaching his hands into the mud to shape man with his own bare hands. Yet even that was not intimate enough, because God then breathed life into Adam's nostrils. That carries the mental image of God placing his mouth over Adam's mouth and nose and breathing the very breath of God into the corpse of Adam to make Adam a living being.

It don't get much more intimate than that. (Until the Holy Spirit comes to dwell INSIDE of us so that we can be sealed as dwelling forever in Christ who is forever ONE with the Father.)

Yes that is a good point, there could not be the intimacy The Father was wanting from before creation.
Think about this for a moment, all of creation has failed God at one time or another.
Even the Angels, wonderful creations of God, failed god. Lucifer was a magnificent creation, living in the Fathers house.
The Father called him 'son of the morning' but lucifer was not a birthed son.
He was a created being given the name 'son of the morning.'
Adam created a living soul, not a birthed son, failed God.
King David, the Apple of God's eye, failed God.
The Old Testament is full of many wonderful things God did, the types and shadows, prophecies, covenants, the history of a people God choses for Himself to represent God Himself.
The major thing the Old Testament does is show that man in himself could not please God.
So when we are talking about God birthing His own children it takes the believer so deep in God, without the help of the HolySpirit, all of this will remain a mystery.
When we talk about nature's and being born of God, it opened up the scriptures, it is like a key to understanding unlocking what has been in the Father before the foundation of the world.
So our gospel doesn't start at the cross, or a fall in the garden.

Our gospel starts before the foundation of the world, Eph. 1:4,
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: