The Fathers' Pain

[journeyman]

I believe to watch the evil committed against his Son caused our Father great pain. I also think all sins throughout history have caused God much pain.
It seems that's what the longsuffering of God is. It's mind blowing.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

It seems that this concern is fairly rare. I do not recall much talk about how God suffers among his children.

 

[journeyman]

It seems that this concern is fairly rare. I do not recall much talk about how God suffers among his children.

It's just that in 1Cor.2:9-10, when Paul talks about the deep things God prepared for us, which the Spirit reveals to us, it seems he's referring to Christs' passion and all that goes with it.
He also mentions in another place how the Spirit groans as no one can. Our emotions are God given and I believe being made in his image includes emotion.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

It's just that in 1Cor.2:9-10, when Paul talks about the deep things God prepared for us, which the Spirit reveals to us, it seems he's referring to Christs' passion and all that goes with it.
He also mentions in another place how the Spirit groans as no one can. Our emotions are God given and I believe being made in his image includes emotion.

Yes, I very much agree. But how many even care?

 

[journeyman]

Yes, I very much agree. But how many even care?

I don't know Dorothy Mae. I think it's something only God can know. I think we were only meant to know about ourselves.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I don't know Dorothy Mae. I think it's something only God can know. I think we were only meant to know about ourselves.

No, caring about more than our own welfare was always the goal. It’s a significant step above your peers to care about other people against your own welfare (“greater love hath no man”) but caring about God’s heart, that is an even higher (a man/woman after God’s own heart.)

 

[journeyman]

No, caring about more than our own welfare was always the goal. It’s a significant step above your peers to care about other people against your own welfare (“greater love hath no man”) but caring about God’s heart, that is an even higher (a man/woman after God’s own heart.)

I agree, but it's Gods' job to establish motive.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I agree, but it's Gods' job to establish motive.

I don’t see that in scripture. I thinks it’s our job. “seek his kingdom…” is a command for us to motivate ourselves.

 

[journeyman]

I don’t see that in scripture. I thinks it’s our job. “seek his kingdom…” is a command for us to motivate ourselves.

I wasn't talking about the motive of self. Of course ones own heart is ones own job

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I wasn't talking about the motive of self. Of course ones own heart is ones own job

Who’s motive did you mean?

 

[journeyman]

Who’s motive did you mean?

Everyone else. It's not my job to examine others hearts. Only me own.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Everyone else. It's not my job to examine others hearts. Only me own.

Why is it God’s job to motivate others but not you?

 

[journeyman]

Why is it God’s job to motivate others but not you?

Lol...I do try to motivate others, but I have no right to judge the motives of another persons heart. Your looking at my point cockeyed.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Lol...I do try to motivate others, but I have no right to judge the motives of another persons heart. Your looking at my point cockeyed.

Jesus says to judge a tree by jts fruit. It’s actually a command. You have no right to refuse.

But it is difficult as the culture on the one hand cry’s “don’t judge me” and on the other hand flings out judgements as defenses in a disagreement without a thought. It is a major blind spot.

I personally think it’s because we are not taught to love truth and the resulting discernment that follows when we or others fail to adhere to truth and we are not taught to think. If the mind should happen to start down the path of discerning another’s motive, our cultural training cuts it off at the knees.

But because you cannot go through life very successfully without figuring out who to trust, you have to force yourself to evaluate others motives or get ripped off continually. So on the one hand we have to judge other’s motives and on the other we are commanded by the culture not to do so, it’s morally wrong.

 

[journeyman]

Jesus says to judge a tree by jts fruit. It’s actually a command. You have no right to refuse.

But it is difficult as the culture on the one hand cry’s “don’t judge me” and on the other hand flings out judgements as defenses in a disagreement without a thought. It is a major blind spot.

I personally think it’s because we are not taught to love truth and the resulting discernment that follows when we or others fail to adhere to truth and we are not taught to think. If the mind should happen to start down the path of discerning another’s motive, our cultural training cuts it off at the knees.

But because you cannot go through life very successfully without figuring out who to trust, you have to force yourself to evaluate others motives or get ripped off continually. So on the one hand we have to judge other’s motives and on the other we are commanded by the culture not to do so, it’s morally wrong.

Well, Jesus' method of judgement always begins with self for the welfare of others,

first cast out the beam out of thine own eye and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. Mt.7:5

But nowhere does our Lord instruct us to judge others in the sense of condemning them (Mt.7:1)

I agree with you that we need discernment, but because a person with evil intent is hurting his own self,

Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoevert hou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. Rom.2:1

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Well, Jesus' method of judgement always begins with self for the welfare of others,

first cast out the beam out of thine own eye and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. Mt.7:5

But nowhere does our Lord instruct us to judge others in the sense of condemning them (Mt.7:1)

I agree with you that we need discernment, but because a person with evil intent is hurting his own self,

Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoevert hou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. Rom.2:1

First off, I have to say it’s refreshing to talk with you. Sometimes I weary of those who love the gift(s) but much less the Giver. Your thread reflects a different heart.

Actually God or Jesus’ judgment begins with a love for God first. We are to love God with all of us and merely love our neighbor as we love us, much less than we love Him.

Matt 7:5 is, of course, correct. But the purpose of removing the beam is to pursue relationship with Him, not to improve our judging ability.

Those who first love God love man more than those who don’t. When the love for God has matured, you have no wish to condemn. He who says he loves God but hates his fellow man is not telling the truth.

You know, a passion for God means you love others around more than say those who only love their salvation, and you actually have a concern for the victims of sin more so than the perpetrators. The victims didn’t have a choice.

Romans 2 is a warning to be innocent of that which you judge others as committing. But we see Peter and Paul condemning believers or supposed believers freely since they were not committing those sins. Sometimes I think there are more victims of assaults in the church because people are afraid to discern a spade as a space. They rather say it’s a rather darkened upside down heart.

 

[journeyman]

First off, I have to say it’s refreshing to talk with you. Sometimes I weary of those who love the gift(s) but much less the Giver. Your thread reflects a different heart.

Well that's the heart of God, not the heart of stone he's removing from me.

I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. Eze.36:26

I even started getting annoyed today because the lines at the store were long and the one I got in had somebody in front that had a 10 minute problem. I had to wait 10 whole minutes to get checked out. Woe is me

Actually God or Jesus’ judgment begins with a love for God first. We are to love God with all of us and merely love our neighbor as we love us, much less than we love Him.

Yes, exactly! When we do that, we see how far kinder our God is toward people who don't care about him. What Jesus went through is stunning. He is success.

Matt 7:5 is, of course, correct. But the purpose of removing the beam is to pursue relationship with Him, not to improve our judging ability.

I'll say if our aim is to pursue relationship with him, our ability to judge has improved greatly.

Those who first love God love man more than those who don’t. When the love for God has matured, you have no wish to condemn. He who says he loves God but hates his fellow man is not telling the truth.

I agree.

You know, a passion for God means you love others around more than say those who only love their salvation, and you actually have a concern for the victims of sin more so than the perpetrators. The victims didn’t have a choice.

Well, we don't have a choice in the sense that there's no comparison to Christ, because his love for the unlovable compelled him to suffer by the same.

Romans 2 is a warning to be innocent of that which you judge others as committing. But we see Peter and Paul condemning believers or supposed believers freely since they were not committing those sins. Sometimes I think there are more victims of assaults in the church because people are afraid to discern a spade as a space. They rather say it’s a rather darkened upside down heart.

Well, the Apostles didn't condemn anyone. They didn't judge anyone outside the church. Paul did speak of judgment within the church, such as excomunication, but even that was for the unrepentant sinners welfare.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Well that's the heart of God, not the heart of stone he's removing from me.

I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. Eze.36:26

Well done!! You also had to be willing to be changed. You know, it’s OK to take credit where credit is due.

I even started getting annoyed today because the lines at the store were long and the one I got in had somebody in front that had a 10 minute problem. I had to wait 10 whole minutes to get checked out. Woe is me

I know that one.

Yes, exactly! When we do that, we see how far kinder our God is toward people who don't care about him. What Jesus went through is stunning. He is success.

I'll say if our aim is to pursue relationship with him, our ability to judge has improved greatly.

I agree.

I agree.

Well, we don't have a choice in the sense that there's no comparison to Christ, because his love for the unlovable compelled him to suffer by the same.

Yes, although he has more aspects than just love and suffering for people.

Well, the Apostles didn't condemn anyone. They didn't judge anyone outside the church. Paul did speak of judgment within the church, such as excomunication, but even that was for the unrepentant sinners welfare.

Well, when Peter judged Ananias and wife, they dropped dead. Their welfare was not the goal. When Paul judged Peter for withdrawing from the Gentiles, he didn’t have Peter’s interest primarily in mind, but the other’s interest.

Your thread is about the Father’s pain, not our welfare. When the Father, the Judge of all the Earth, does rightly and enacts terrible judgement, it is mainly for justice. It’s isn’t, at that point, for the recipients welfare. It’s for justice sake.

Not everything God does is for our best and He doesn’t promise it is. He works all things to good for those who fulfill the conditions which is our part. Those who refuse the conditions have no such promise from Him.

 

[journeyman]

Well done!! You also had to be willing to be changed. You know, it’s OK to take credit where credit is due.

I understand credit sis, but being willing to change at the sight of Gods' Child being savagely brutilized for loving people is natural. It's common sense, because any normal thinking person would see the wrongfulness in harming an innocent, especially if it was their own child.

Yes, although he has more aspects than just love and suffering for people.

I know, but his sufferings are the result of the love he has for sinners. Had our Savior not endured the wrongdoing, the sin of his crucifixion, the only alternative would be judgement.

Well, when Peter judged Ananias and wife, they dropped dead. Their welfare was not the goal.

Peter didn't kill them. God did,

Therefore...let us go on unto perfection...And this will we do, if God permit. Heb.6:1,3

When Paul judged Peter for withdrawing from the Gentiles, he didn’t have Peter’s interest primarily in mind, but the other’s interest.

Paul corrected Peter. He had everyones intrest in mind.

Your thread is about the Father’s pain, not our welfare.

For now, they can't be separated, because any pain believers have due to mistreatment for sharing the gospel is the result of our concern for the lost. It's the result of the mind of Christ in us.

When the Father, the Judge of all the Earth, does rightly and enacts terrible judgement, it is mainly for justice. It’s isn’t, at that point, for the recipients welfare. It’s for justice sake.

You're right, but the cross of Christ is God withholding judgment.

Not everything God does is for our best and He doesn’t promise it is. He works all things to good for those who fulfill the conditions which is our part. Those who refuse the conditions have no such promise from Him.

All I can say is, everything God did in the flesh is for our best because,

while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Rom.5:8