the first commandment

[donadams]

Graven images must be the first commandment

Why is it extremely important for the first commandment to include ex 20:2-6?

Why should the ban on graven images be in the first commandment?

Because the first commandment deals with the true God and false gods, graven images are idols and worshipped as god, idolatry, so it must be included in the first commandments context.

Thanks

 

[donadams]

Are images forbidden or only graven images? (Idols worshipped as a god) thanks

 

[Aussie Mark]

Graven images must be the first commandment

Why is it extremely important for the first commandment to include ex 20:2-6?

Why should the ban on graven images be in the first commandment?

Because the first commandment deals with the true God and false gods, graven images are idols and worshipped as god, idolatry, so it must be included in the first commandments context.

Thanks

I think the fact that idols (graven images) are specifically mentioned is because the idea of having a god that doesn't require an idol to bow down before would have been so counter to the norms of the times.

God knows men's hearts and even with this commandment it only took 12 chapters and then we find the incident with the golden calf.

Oxford Languages defines a graven image as: "a carved idol or representation of a god used as an object of worship", so I don't think an image per se such as a picture or photo or piece of art is a problem in itself. I think it is man's response that is the issue.

Sadly Christianity (especially Catholicism) is littered with idolatory.
.

 

[donadams]

I think the fact that idols (graven images) are specifically mentioned is because the idea of having a god that doesn't require an idol to bow down before would have been so counter to the norms of the times.

God knows men's hearts and even with this commandment it only took 12 chapters and then we find the incident with the golden calf.

Oxford Languages defines a graven image as: "a carved idol or representation of a god used as an object of worship", so I don't think an image per se such as a picture or photo or piece of art is a problem in itself. I think it is man's response that is the issue.

Sadly Christianity (especially Catholicism) is littered with idolatory.
.

Not so I’ve been catholic all my life and never seen heard or practiced any such thing
I think you’re right “as a god” cos it only was 5 chapters later that God commanded Moses to make the ark with images “not idols”
Idolatry is worship and that requires intent. Thanks

 

[Aussie Mark]

Visit St Peter Basilica in Rome and see the thousands that flow through and kiss the foot of the bronze statue of Peter.

One foot has been worn away over the centuries from being kissed. That is idolatory.

 

[theSeriousOne]

Graven images must be the first commandment

Why is it extremely important for the first commandment to include ex 20:2-6?

Why should the ban on graven images be in the first commandment?

Because the first commandment deals with the true God and false gods, graven images are idols and worshipped as god, idolatry, so it must be included in the first commandments context.

Thanks

The ancient people had imaginary Gods.

 

[jasonc]

Visit St Peter Basilica in Rome and see the thousands that flow through and kiss the foot of the bronze statue of Peter.

One foot has been worn away over the centuries from being kissed. That is idolatory.

I certainly don't think Peter would approve of that .he is a fellow serveant not a man to be revered like that .

 

[jasonc]

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electedbyhim

Speaking of a shrine .I have seen this having plants near it and Catholic paraphernalia for Christmas and easter.i don't think the current owner is catholic.thjs had a nativity scene plus flowers(poinsettia) and also maryology stuff .

 

[Hopeful]

Are images forbidden or only graven images? (Idols worshipped as a god) thanks

Yes, they are forbidden.
If you spit on it, and it is sacrilege, it is a false idol.

 

[Hopeful]

The ancient people had imaginary Gods.

So do modern people.
One symbol of men's idolatry is the dollar sign.
$

 

[Aussie Mark]

So do modern people.
One symbol of men's idolatry is the dollar sign.
$

While some men have been greedy since time immemorial, as western society is becoming more secular and is embracing relative truth as well as getting wealthier, having greater access to financial markets and ways of making money, materialism and wealth (money) becoming an idol I would suggest is on the rise.

This is a challenge for many Christians in the west as many of us live in relative comfort in economies with high standards of living. Easy to justify to ourselves how much we give (or don't give) to Christian work and how much we keep.

 

[Aussie Mark]

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electedbyhim

Speaking of a shrine .I have seen this having plants near it and Catholic paraphernalia for Christmas and easter.i don't think the current owner is catholic.thjs had a nativity scene plus flowers(poinsettia) and also maryology stuff .

Great carving and a wonderful piece of art.

Start praying to it and we might have a problem.

 

[Aussie Mark]

I certainly don't think Peter would approve of that .he is a fellow serveant not a man to be revered like that .

From: 'Guide to Saint Peter's Basilica'
This ancient statue of St. Peter, portrayed as he gives a blessing and preaches, while holding the keys to the kingdom of heaven is famous throughout the world. Some scholars have attributed it to Arnolfo di Cambio (1245-1302), but others believe that it is a V century casting.

Pilgrims who come to the Basilica traditionally touch and kiss its foot, so that it is literally worn thin. In the Middle Ages pilgrims who reached Rome, touched and kissed the foot of the statue and prayed to St. Peter asking that he be merciful and open the gates of heaven for them if they died during the pilgrimage.
Source: http://stpetersbasilica.info/Statues/StPeter/StPeter.htm

jasonc I agree!! I can't recall anywhere in the Bible does it tell Christians to pray to a dead apostle or anyone else but to God in Jesus's name.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The idolatry in Rome is astounding. The guide told us that after Constantine they just gave the statues of Roman gods biblical names. Only in Jerusalem does not meet that level of idolatry where they weep over stones.

 

[jasonc]

Great carving and a wonderful piece of art.

Start praying to it and we might have a problem.

They build shrines and that is one a few I have seen .

In the very bottoms is a person looking up to the image in a prostate state .

 

[theSeriousOne]

They are attempting to make their silly imaginings appear real....

 

[Hopeful]

While some men have been greedy since time immemorial, as western society is becoming more secular and is embracing relative truth as well as getting wealthier, having greater access to financial markets and ways of making money, materialism and wealth (money) becoming an idol I would suggest is on the rise.

This is a challenge for many Christians in the west as many of us live in relative comfort in economies with high standards of living. Easy to justify to ourselves how much we give (or don't give) to Christian work and how much we keep.

Give what you can, when you can.
None of what we "have" is "ours" anyway, as God is just letting us use it until someone else needs it more than we do.

 

[electedbyhim]

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electedbyhim

Speaking of a shrine .I have seen this having plants near it and Catholic paraphernalia for Christmas and easter.i don't think the current owner is catholic.thjs had a nativity scene plus flowers(poinsettia) and also maryology stuff

Right.

This is the one my mother used to drag us to

https://www.srstrinity.com/our-lady-of-lourdes-national-shrine-and-gift-shop
https://www.srstrinity.com/our-lady-of-lourdes-national-shrine-and-gift-shop

 

[donadams]

Visit St Peter Basilica in Rome and see the thousands that flow through and kiss the foot of the bronze statue of Peter.

One foot has been worn away over the centuries from being kissed. That is idolatory.

That’s ridiculous!
Veneration is not worship
Peter is not a god
Worship requires intent and the cc teaches only God the father, son, and Holy Spirit may be worshipped
Thanks

 

[donadams]

Yes, they are forbidden.
If you spit on it, and it is sacrilege, it is a false idol.

Care to explain:

Matt 27:3-10 statuary?

Zechariah 11:13
And the Lord said to me: Cast it to the statuary, a handsome price, that I was prized at by them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and I cast them into the house of the Lord to the statuary.

KJV call it pottery

What statues? Graven images?

Images are not forbidden, such as the cherubim on the ark of the covenant exod 25:18 and the bronze serpent num 21:9 and Jn 3:14 are not forbidden but even commanded, graven or worshiped as a god then these images are forbidden such as the golden calf!

Bowing down or posture does not equal worship or adoration!

Worship requires intent!
You must have the intent to worship God properly!

Worship requires intent, offering of sacrifice, a ordained priesthood, adoration, reparation, thanksgiving, and petition!

Bowing or posture does not equal worship! Kneeling next to your bed to pray is that worshiping your bed?

Genesis 23:12
And Abraham bowed down himself before the people of the land.

Genesis 42:6
And Joseph was the governor over the land, and he it was that sold to all the people of the land: and Joseph's brethren came, and bowed down themselves before him with their faces to the earth.

Bowing a sign of obedience!

Genesis 43:28
And they answered, Thy servant our father is in good health, he is yet alive. And they bowed down their heads, and made obeisance.

1 Kings 1:53
So king Solomon sent, and they brought him down from the altar. And he came and bowed himself to king Solomon: and Solomon said unto him, Go to thine house.

1 Kings 2:19
Bathsheba therefore went unto king Solomon, to speak unto him for Adonijah. And the king rose up to meet her, and bowed himself unto her


If you kneel next to your bed to say your prayers at night are you worshiping your bed? No!

I have been a catholic all my life and I’m 60 and I have never worshiped Mary or the saints or a statute!

Reverence, veneration, love and devotion yes! Worship no!

Imitation of the the life and virtues of the saints! Yes a husband and father should imitate Saint Joseph, his life of godliness and virtue, patience and obedience and faithfulness! The family should imitate the holy family of Nazareth!

the icon-o-clast heresy was condemned by the holy apostles in the authority of Christ in the seventh century at the second council of Nicea!