The GAP Of Genesis 1

[DavidT]

Firstly I have to say, I do not like how deeper Biblical matters like this study in Genesis is associated in a forum section like Unorthodox Theology assigned with radicals who show they don't even believe in God.
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My Disclaimer: I am a Christian, a believer on The Heavenly Father and His Son Jesus Christ Who died on the cross for the remission of the sins of those who believe, and that He was raised from the dead on the third day, as written in God's Word. And I believe the written Word of God (in its original) is God's inherent inspired Words. So even though this 'Unorthodox Theology' section contains threads posted by non-believers asking mocking questions, I don't agree with those being allowed to post even in this Forum section. Because of that method of treating posts in this section, it indirectly suggests to the believer that this forum section is for 'radicals', something that I am not.
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The Gap idea of Genesis 1 about God's creation is understand from Bible Scripture by many Bible scholars. It is not a new idea that only began with some seminary doctor, or Darwinist. 1800's British Bible scholar E.W. Bullinger taught it. (see https://reasons.org/explore/publica...open-to-an-old-universe-old-earth-perspective).

See the following for an explanation of the Bible Scripture about this:

One of his ideas I do not agree with is, his idea of a pre-Adamic race without souls. I believe the time of Lucifer's kingdom before he rebelled in coveting God's Throne was an 'angelic' existence upon the earth, not a flesh one.

There exists dinosaur fossils of footprints with perfect human arch footprints in them both dated to the same time. I believe that human footprint dated around 65 million years ago along with the time of dinosaurs, was an 'angelic' human footprint. Remember per God's Word, like in Genesis 19, the angels were able to eat man's food, so the angelic body must have some kind of spirit substance that has weight, and could cause that human fossilized footprint.

 

[Humblepie]

Before Adam there was no "wage of sin" there was no death before Adam sinned, dinosaurs did not live 350 million years before Adam. Death entered the world through Adam.
If this isn't truth, than my Bible is a lie.

 

[DavidT]

Before Adam there was no "wage of sin" there was no death before Adam sinned, dinosaurs did not live 350 million years before Adam. Death entered the world through Adam.
If this isn't truth, than my Bible is a lie.

Your Bible is not a lie, you just haven't understood it all yet:


1 John 3:8
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
KJV

 

[Humblepie]

Your Bible is not a lie, you just haven't understood it all yet:


1 John 3:8
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
KJV

Romas 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

 

[DavidT]

Romas 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Which is very... true, dealing with the case of FLESH MAN.

But I didn't know that Satan and the angels had flesh bodies, because Apostle John said in 1 John 3:8, the devil sinned from the beginning. That of course means PRIOR to Adam.

So you're going to have to try harder to find Bible Scripture that goes directly against the Gap idea of Genesis 1.

 

[Humblepie]

Which is very... true, dealing with the case of FLESH MAN.

But I didn't know that Satan and the angels had flesh bodies, because Apostle John said in 1 John 3:8, the devil sinned from the beginning. That of course means PRIOR to Adam.

So you're going to have to try harder to find Bible Scripture that goes directly against the Gap idea of Genesis 1.

You have to prove with scripture that death came before man's sin, otherwise it's just baseless
assumptions On your part.

Even the very earth is cursed by sin.

 

[DavidT]

You have to prove with scripture that death came before man's sin, otherwise it's just baseless
assumptions On your part.

Even the very earth is cursed by sin.

You haven't read Hebrews 2:14, huh?

 

[Humblepie]

You haven't read Hebrews 2:14, huh?

The Devil "had" power of death in the sense of he can lead others away from God which is considered the real death of being separated from God rather than just physically being dead.

 

[JLB]

I believe the time of Lucifer's kingdom before he rebelled in coveting God's Throne was an 'angelic' existence upon the earth, not a flesh one.

 

[Humblepie]

Is that between the first and second day?
As Genesis defines a day?
And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.

And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

Maybe between the 6th 24 hour period and last day.

 

[DavidT]

Here is the Gap idea of Genesis 1:

Gen 1:1-2
1 In the beginning God created the Heaven and the earth.

In the Hebrew, "God" is Elohiym, which is about The Triune Godhead, but the word "created" is Hebrew barah in singular. This is pointing directly to the full Godhead of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit, but in singular fashion creating the Heaven and the earth.

"Heaven" is plural in the Hebrew here. Per Job 38, God created Heaven first because when He created the earth, all the "sons of God" (angels) sang for joy.

This also means the 'heaven' called our sky around the earth was also created then at verse 1. Because of this, some simply pass this Genesis 1:1 verse off as just as a type summary of what is explained in the rest of the Gen.1 chapter.

This Genesis 1:1 creation in the beginning was God's PERFECT full ORIGINAL creation. It is right here during this time when Lucifer followed God and God said Lucifer was "perfect in thy ways" (Ezekiel 28 about the "king of Tyrus" used by God as a 'type' for Lucifer in that old world).

This Genesis 1:1 verse is the original creation created by The Word of God that Peter was pointing to with "the world that then was" (2 Peter 3).

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
KJV

Here the earth already exists, as also those "waters" upon it. We find no idea of the earth being created past the point of Genesis 1:1.

The phrase "without form, and void" is not an accurate translation into English. In the Hebrew it is tohuw va bohuw, and means 'a waste and an undistinguishable ruin' (OT:8414 and OT:922; see your Strong's Exhaustive Concordance).

With Hebrew tohuw, in most Biblical cases it is used for something that has gone into 'vanity', 'emptiness', 'nothing'. It does not mean what went into vanity started out that way; it means it was once good but then went into vanity or corruption. Use of your Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, or The Englishman's Concordance, will show you how Hebrew tohuw is used throughout the Old Testament, likewise with Hebrew bohuw.

One of the strongest Scripture proofs that God did NOT create the earth 'tohuw' is in Isaiah 45:18 where He specifically said He did not create the earth "in vain" (Hebrew tohuw).

What this means for Genesis 1:2 is that the creation is no longer Perfect at this point, that something happened to make it go into a waste state covered by those "waters" in that verse.

In Jeremiah 4 there is another description of the earth being in that state of "without form, and void", which further proves that tohuw va bohuw is about the earth going into 'vanity', in a wasted state because of some major event. This also reveals that GOD is Who placed His ORIGINAL PERFECT creation into this vanity state of "without form, and void" (tohuw va bohuw)...

Jer 4:22-28
22 For My people is foolish, they have not known Me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.

At this point in the prophet Jeremiah's day, the children of Israel of the southern kingdom of Judah at Jerusalem/Judea was rebellious against God. And God had already determined to bring upon them Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon. So God is getting ready here to give them a little reminder through His prophet Jeremiah, of a destruction God did of old upon the earth...

23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

Wait a minute; what's this "without form, and void" doing here if it means the earth had not yet been formed per Genesis 1:2?? As will be discovered with the next verse, God gave this "without form, and void" along with the next verses of an existing... creation that is destroyed by Him...

24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.

Have you ever read Hebrews 12:25-29 where it speaks of how God once shook this earth, but that "Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven,"? Where's is that future... shaking written you think? In Revelation 6:14 on the 6th Seal. By that example in Hebrews 12, God is showing that He once shook this earth and all the mountains and hills trembled and moved lightly.

Did you know that geographic true North is about 90 miles off of true magnetic North? Aircraft pilots have to correct their compass heading when flying long distance over the earth; "east is least" (6 degrees), and "west is best" (8 degrees), is the old saying. Did God shake the earth off its original axis with that first shaking? And Hebrews 12:25-29 indeed is pointing to a final shaking of this earth on the future "day of the Lord" when that "consuming fire" of 2 Peter 3:10 happens.

Thus already here in Jeremiah 4, with that "without form, and void", and trembling of the earth, God is pointing back to a previous whole-earth full destruction event that He did before, and it included a shaking of this old earth, a shaking on the level of the future one "Yet once more..." that is to occur per Revelation on the day of Christ's future return.

25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

The birds having fled automatically suggests those birds existed in the sky beforehand.

26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by His fierce anger.

That idea of the "fruitful place" is about the earth. It became like a "wilderness", empty, nothingness. That's the idea of Hebrew tohuw va bohuw ("without form, and void").

And "all the cities" were broken down at GOD's Presence, and by His fierce anger?? I really get amazed at how some men do everything they can to keep their pet traditions with attempting to explain these "cities" being of this present world so they can place this WHOLE Jer.4 section as during the days of Jeremiah.

But I won't lie to you brethren by doing what those men do with attempting to hide this Truth. God literally destroyed that old world that had "cities", His first original perfect creation, and it was because of Lucifer's rebellion against Him with Lucifer wanting to be GOD and coveting GOD's throne. To this day Satan still covets God's Throne and Jerusalem to go with it.

So there were ancient "cities" that existed in that old world of God's original perfect creation prior... to Lucifer's rebellion? Yes.

In Revelation 12:3-4 we are shown a time when the "red dragon" drew a third of the "stars" (put for angels) to earth with him in rebellion. Per Rev.12:9 the title of "dragon" we are told is another name for Satan. At that time he drew those third of angels into rebellion with him, it shows Satan did that with a world system that had "seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns" (Rev.12:3-4).

That original beast system of ten horns, seven heads, but only 7 crowns is hard-linked to the time when Satan drew those third of the angels to earth in rebellion with him. Those same men that try to hide this Biblical fact try to associate that with the beast system of Rev.13:1 which is to have only "ten crowns". Won't work. The beast of old with only "seven crowns" was back when Satan first rebelled. So what does that reveal about Lucifer's beast kingdom of old that had only "seven crowns"? Since the Rev.13 beast is to have ten horns, seven heads, and ten crowns, does it means it will involve 'cities' upon the earth that the ten horns as ten kings will reign from? Yes. Likewise it likely was with Lucifer being over a "seven crown" beast kingdom back in the old world before he rebelled.

27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.
KJV

Past Genesis 1:2, God is actually making a 'restoration' of the earth that He placed in a waste and ruin state with waters of a flood at Genesis 1:2. This restoration is our present world. Those waters at Genesis 1:2 upon the existing earth were not about the time of Noah. Noah's time was much later than Gen.1:2 that should be obvious.

 

[Humblepie]

Past Genesis 1:2, God is actually making a 'restoration' of the earth

Sounds horrific, like it would've been the worst thing to happen to the earth, without form and void, no light no living thing.
Nothing could survive that.

Nice story.

Too bad the Bible says the end is the worst time since the creation.

Matt 24:21
21 For then there will be great distress, ((((unequaled from the beginning of the world until now)))))—and never to be equaled again,
And yet there are survivors in Matthew's scenario.

Nice story though.

 

[JLB]

By the seventh day God had finished the work

For this reason the Jews persecuted Jesus, and sought to kill Him, because He had done these things on the Sabbath. But Jesus answered them, “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.” John 5:16-17


The weekly Sabbath is a shadow of something to come. The 1000 year reign with Christ.


For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. Hebrews 4:8-9

again

So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. Colossians 2:16-17





JLB

 

[Humblepie]

For this reason the Jews persecuted Jesus, and sought to kill Him, because He had done these things on the Sabbath. But Jesus answered them, “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.” John 5:16-17


The weekly Sabbath is a shadow of something to come. The 1000 year reign with Christ.


For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. Hebrews 4:8-9

again

So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. Colossians 2:16-17





JLB

Huh?

 

[Humblepie]

For this reason the Jews persecuted Jesus, and sought to kill Him, because He had done these things on the Sabbath. But Jesus answered them, “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.” John 5:16-17


The weekly Sabbath is a shadow of something to come. The 1000 year reign with Christ.


For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. Hebrews 4:8-9

again

So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. Colossians 2:16-17





JLB

“So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance [body, King James Version] is of Christ” (Colossians 2:16-17).

Some claim that these verses abolish the law about clean and unclean animals, and that Christians may now eat pork, shellfish and the other meats designated as “unclean” in Leviticus 11:1-23 and Deuteronomy 14:3-20. Is this true?

Understanding the context: the influence of pagan philosophies
As in all matters of biblical interpretation, context is important. The Colossian church was being troubled by various strange ideas, such as worship of angels. Some of the philosophies mentioned in Colossians bear resemblance to the teachings of the later gnostics, who believed that spirit and matter were in essential conflict. They considered the spirit good and the body to be evil. Some gnostics tended toward libertinism (indulgence of the physical), while others were ascetic, believing all pleasurable activity was sinful.

These elements of gnostic doctrine are reflected in the book of Colossians. Note the mentions of false humility and worship of angels in Colossians 2:18: “Let no one cheat you of your reward [eternal life in God’s Kingdom], taking delight in false humility and worship of angels.”

Note also the reference to asceticism in verses 20-21: “Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations—‘Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle’ … ?” Verse 23 also talks about “neglect of the body.”

Eating and drinking
When placed in this context, Colossians 2:16 and 17 make good sense. These verses don’t use the Greek word for meat or flesh, kreas, which is used in Romans 14:21 and 1 Corinthians 8:13. Rather the word is brosis, a more general word for eating of food, coupled with posis, the general word for imbibing of any beverage. There is no explicit mention of animal flesh here at all.

It seems the ascetic heretics wished to deprive the Christians of lawful enjoyment of the normal activities of eating and drinking, such as in celebrating a festival. Apparently these ascetics thought some in the congregation at Colosse were enjoying their food and drink too much!

Paul told the members in Colosse not to be concerned about what these ascetics were saying about their eating and drinking (of things that were biblically lawful) or to worry about any other ascetic practices related to a new moon, festival or Sabbaths that these people might try to force upon the members. These two verses don’t change God’s laws about eating and drinking and they don’t abolish festive occasions.

 

[Humblepie]

For this reason the Jews persecuted Jesus, and sought to kill Him, because He had done these things on the Sabbath. But Jesus answered them, “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.” John 5:16-17


The weekly Sabbath is a shadow of something to come. The 1000 year reign with Christ.


For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. Hebrews 4:8-9

again

So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. Colossians 2:16-17





JLB

By the seventh day God had finished the work

Huh?

I see what you are getting at now, i was a little confused on the point you were trying to make. But there does seem to be a contradiction between two text in Scripture, but I was referring to the creation story in Gen 2:2
2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work.

As you see in Gen 2:2 it said he rested from the work he (((finished))) doing, but maybe not from all work he had planned.

 

[JLB]

As you see in Gen 2:2 it said he rested from the work he (((finished))) doing, but maybe not from all work he had planned.

My point is: What God means by the seventh day, and what we think He means by the seventh say, may be entirely different.


But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 2 Peter 3:8


the one thousand year reign with Christ, is 7000 years from Adam.

Basically, it's been 4000 years from Adam to Christ, and another 2000 years from the Crucifixion of Christ to the years 3033 AD.

After that begins the 7000th year or the seventh prophetic day.


Now the Jews have it at year 5784.


I don't know how correct that is.


Then there is this...

And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened. Matthew 24:22

 

[Humblepie]

But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 2 Peter 3:8

That's truth, but it
Excludes creation.


From the time he says in the beginning, until day and night was created, it was one earth day. Not a thousand, or a million, or 50 million or 4.5 billion years.

 

[DavidT]

Sounds horrific, like it would've been the worst thing to happen to the earth, without form and void, no light no living thing.
Nothing could survive that.

Nice story.

Too bad the Bible says the end is the worst time since the creation.

Matt 24:21
21 For then there will be great distress, ((((unequaled from the beginning of the world until now)))))—and never to be equaled again,
And yet there are survivors in Matthew's scenario.

Nice story though.

When Jesus is speaking of before the foundation idea with the coming "great tribulation", He is pointing back to the 'restoration' past Gen.1:2, which is about God's restoration for this 2nd world earth age, an 'imperfect' world of sin and death originally caused by Lucifer's original sin and rebellion back in the 1st world which God destroyed.

 

[DavidT]

As a child I used to watch Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom program on TV that came on Saturday mornings. It showcased wild animals in Africa, especially the ''survival of the fittest" idea of the kingdom of wild beasts, like lions and leopards attacking and eating other animals. That was put forth as God's perfect creation. It is not though.

How God's future new heavens and a new earth time will be is not comparable to the state which God placed today's creation into bondage of corruption, as per Apostle Paul in Romans 8:18-25.

Per Isaiah 45:18 God said He did not create the earth "in vain", which is an equivalent idea to Apostle Paul's idea of the creation being "made subject to vanity" per Romans 8:20.

This means this present 2nd world earth age is in an imperfect state, and is not how God made His original creation that was Perfect. That 1st world earth age that was Perfect is comparable to the His final new heavens and a new earth, the future 3rd world earth age. In that world to come, God showed there will be no more sea (Rev.21), and that His River of the Waters of Life will flow upon this earth to feed and heal all other waters upon the earth it comes into contact with (Ezekiel 47).

Isaiah 11 reveals then the wolf will lay down with the lamb. The cow and the bear will feed together, and the lion will eat straw like an ox. Do you see this happening for today's creation? No.

Do we see the whole earth being made inhabitable, with the oceans and seas not covering the majority of the earth? No.

Do we see deserts and dry lake beds, and canyons being a 'fruitful' place? No, of course not, yet most think those places are part of God's beautiful creation, when they really are not, but are leftover waste lands from God's anger and destruction of that old world when Lucifer first rebelled and did the first sin against Him, and thus brought the concept of death for this 2nd world earth age with the earth today in a state of mourning for a release from the bondage it is.

How could Apostle Paul write about God's creation today being "made subject to vanity", and in a state of "bondage of corruption" unless he understood how God's original creation was Perfect, and not in the corrupted state it is in today?

We today in this 2nd world earth age have been programmed to believe today's 2nd world earth age was made perfect, yet Paul said different in Rom.8. Likewise God shows different in Jeremiah 4:23-28. And Hebrews 2:14 reveals that the power of death has been assigned to the devil. Why? Because before he rebelled in coveting God's Throne, there was no sin nor death, just as how it will be in God's future world to come.