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The Gospel continues to be misunderstood

Nathan12

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Even though the Gospel is quite simple, it continues to be misunderstood and or misrepresented. Many people are not sure to this day whether salvation is by grace through faith in Christ and His finished work of redemption, or whether baptism is necessary for salvation, or perhaps other good works, or the sacraments, are necessary for salvation. Then there are some who claim that God arbitrarily elects some for salvation, and others for damnation (which would be a violation of the character of God as well as a travesty of the Gospel). Therefore we need to be clear from Scripture are to what exactly is the Gospel, and how God saves sinners purely by His grace.

1. Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners: This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. (1 Tim 1:15)

2. God sent His Son into the world so that the whole world of humanity would be saved: For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (John 3:17)

3. Sinners are saved by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ and calling upon the Name of the Lord: And [he] brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house... [no mention of baptism at this point, but baptism must follow immediately, as seen in the next few verses]

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. (Acts 16:30,31; Rom 10:9-13).

4. The Gospel is the Good News that Christ died for our sins and rose again for our justification: Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the Gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures... And therefore it was imputed to him [Abraham] for righteousness. Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification. (1 Cor 15:1-4; Rom 4:22-25)

5. We are saved (justified) by grace through faith in Christ alone, and His finished work of redemption, not by works of righteousness which we have done: Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God... For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Rom 5:1,2; Eph 2:8,9)

5. Repentance is necessary for the remission of sins and for salvation: And [Christ] said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem... Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost... Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord... And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent (Lk 24:46,47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 17:30).
 

Edward

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The problem is that so many try to bring the Gospel teachings to their own understanding instead of understanding what has already been written.

Yep. The heart is deceitfully wicked above all things and it will quickly find a way to twist a passage into a justification for a wicked lifestyle or at best a lukewarm walk with the Lord. Even debating interpretations of scripture on the forum is almost useless because the carnal mind can not understand it properly.

Scripture also says that we need no man to teach us but only the Holy Spirit, and He will lead us into all truth. So our best teaching that we learn comes through reading it ourselves and accepting it as a little child and based upon what it says and not, what does that really mean?...God is not the author of confusion and the Gospel message is very simple...if we are willing to receive it and accept it as is.

Many times I find that reading the Word is essentially a prayer session with the Lord. We should always pray for wisdom and understanding and enlightenment before we read it, and, even as we read it. (and don't argue with the Spirit if He says something you don't like!) It is what it is.
 

DeepWater

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Lets try it this way.....

Gospel : Paul teaching = "preaching of the Cross". "we preach Christ Crucified"..."Jesus sent me not to baptize but to preach the Gospel".."faith comes by hearing this".....

So, all that, if believed by an unbeliever resolves an eternal issue......
What is the issue?
What is God's purpose for coming to earth to die as Jesus The Christ on a Cross?
What is He doing?...What is He alone solving, that all our 10 commandment keeping and holy lifestyle can never solve, which is WHY HE had to solve it? ?
And right here is what is so often misunderstood, or not taught correctly, and this is why so many people who mean well, and love Jesus, or would like to love him, do not understand <>WHAT IS<> the actual reason that God came here to die.

So what is that reason?
The reason, is that keeping the law, the 10 commandments, and doing good works, confessing sin, and living as holy as we can, could not make us acceptable to God..
And here is the "catch 22".... It also can't AFTER you are saved.
And right here is where "Legalism vs Grace" becomes the touchstone of constant fighting on forums, and everywhere else that it can show up where believers WILL clash.
(Apparently this clash became such a long standing fight and fury on this forum that members here are barred from posting- fighting about it.)

It is a fact and statement of the CROSS that the law and the 10 Commandments can't make you righteous, they can only show you that you are unrighteous., as that is the actual purpose of the Law, as well as outlining what God expects regarding our basic moral conduct & behavior, once we are born again.
So, how can it be that half the body of Christ is trying to keep all this, all these works, and they believe that this is "keeping them saved".
Whereas the other half of the body of Christ is trusting in Jesus to keep them saved.
So, do you see the line in the sand?
Its this " What is keeping you SAVED"....that is the minefield of theological confusion.
THATS the fight.
Legalism vs Grace.
Its happening on every forum like this one, and its the reason for 5000 denominations that don't agree, and 300 bibles that don't agree.
This issue started with Paul and his preaching of "justification by Faith" >alone, and he wrote the letter to the Galatians that talks about it, and explains it.
2000 yrs later, this issue of Legalism vs Grace is still a fist fight between "Christians".
Here on this forum, apparently they outlawed the battle. :)

Isn't it interesting to realize that if the 10 commandments, or lawkeeping, or living holy, could save you or keep you saved, if that were the truth, then Jesus could have stayed in Heaven and saved Himself some PAIN.....
But ita not the case.
Now im not certain what you have been taught, but i teach that you "present your body a living sacrifice" and you to "live holy as God is holy", not to save yourself or keep yourself saved, but because this is what you should do, and what God expects, .. because you ARE saved.
The Legalist would argue that .."no, you do it to stay saved", and if you don't then you're not.
I wonder, reader, what you believe.
However, keep it to yourself, as this is between you and God, tho make sure you get it right, as if you get it wrong and you are teaching it, then Galatians 1:8 has become quite a literal issue for you.


So, leaving all that now, lets just look at the problem that God had to come here and solve for us, as to look at this, is to understand the reason for Salvation which is to understand Salvation.
Our problem we had, before we were saved, is only one thing, one issue only. And God Himself had to solve it, because we can't.
We are born, and we get older, and we don't have any righteousness.
None.
And so, God can't accept us, because we are UNRIGHTEOUS.
This is "lost", "unsaved"....hellbound = we don't have any RIGHTEOUSNESS< as all of ours, are "filthy rags".
So, in steps SALVATION... Down from Heaven God as The Christ arrives... The Cross has been raised.... As God bleeding out on the "tree" has come down from Heaven to give us HIS righteousness so that He can accept us, based on THAT.......and for no other reason will He accept you, or me.
God, literally became a man, and died on a Cross, to GIVE US "the righteousness of Christ". (God's very own righteousness).
And that is what salvation actually is....Its God coming to earth to give us His righteousness so that HE can accept us, as by giving us His very righteousness, this makes us acceptable to God.
Welcome to Salvation.
Salvation is only.... "what makes you acceptable to God"....and that is one thing, its GOD'S Righteousness, becoming ours.
A born again person, has literally BECOME "the righteousness of Christ", and Christ is GOD.

To say that God's Grace is amazing, is really the least of what it is...
How can you describe the wonder of God, dying to give you His righteousness in place of your unrighteousness, as a free Gift?
Is there a word that can even claim to honor this spiritual transaction enough?
Just one.
LOVE.
Agape` Love.
God is LOVE.
 

Nathan12

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Salvation is only.... "what makes you acceptable to God"....and that is one thing, its GOD'S Righteousness, becoming ours.
This is true as it applies to being justified by grace and receiving the imputed righteousness of Christ. But that is the starting point of salvation. Salvation includes three aspects shown to us in Scripture:

Justification -- saved from the penalty of sin
Sanctification -- saved from the power of sin in our lives
Glorification -- saved from the presence of sin by being perfected

Sanctification is by the power of the Holy Spirit (but we are not passive in that but fully active in practical righteousness), and glorification is a totally supernatural work of God at the Resurrection/Rapture of the saints when God makes us fully as perfect as Christ.
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/1-John-3-2/
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. (1 John 3:2,3)
 

wondering

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This is true as it applies to being justified by grace and receiving the imputed righteousness of Christ. But that is the starting point of salvation. Salvation includes three aspects shown to us in Scripture:

Justification -- saved from the penalty of sin
Sanctification -- saved from the power of sin in our lives
Glorification -- saved from the presence of sin by being perfected

Sanctification is by the power of the Holy Spirit (but we are not passive in that but fully active in practical righteousness), and glorification is a totally supernatural work of God at the Resurrection/Rapture of the saints when God makes us fully as perfect as Christ.
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/1-John-3-2/
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. (1 John 3:2,3)
I was going to write to you re the O.P: to ask you WHAT comes after number 5....

Which was Justification.

But I see you've covered Sanctification also.
Many have a problem understanding sanctification.
Our new friend DeepWater is one and there are many others.

I mention him because I'd like him to read your post and reply to it.....
 

wondering

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Lets try it this way.....

Gospel : Paul teaching = "preaching of the Cross". "we preach Christ Crucified"..."Jesus sent me not to baptize but to preach the Gospel".."faith comes by hearing this".....

So, all that, if believed by an unbeliever resolves an eternal issue......
What is the issue?
What is God's purpose for coming to earth to die as Jesus The Christ on a Cross?
What is He doing?...What is He alone solving, that all our 10 commandment keeping and holy lifestyle can never solve, which is WHY HE had to solve it? ?
And right here is what is so often misunderstood, or not taught correctly, and this is why so many people who mean well, and love Jesus, or would like to love him, do not understand <>WHAT IS<> the actual reason that God came here to die.

So what is that reason?
The reason, is that keeping the law, the 10 commandments, and doing good works, confessing sin, and living as holy as we can, could not make us acceptable to God..
And here is the "catch 22".... It also can't AFTER you are saved.
And right here is where "Legalism vs Grace" becomes the touchstone of constant fighting on forums, and everywhere else that it can show up where believers WILL clash.
(Apparently this clash became such a long standing fight and fury on this forum that members here are barred from posting- fighting about it.)

It is a fact and statement of the CROSS that the law and the 10 Commandments can't make you righteous, they can only show you that you are unrighteous., as that is the actual purpose of the Law, as well as outlining what God expects regarding our basic moral conduct & behavior, once we are born again.
So, how can it be that half the body of Christ is trying to keep all this, all these works, and they believe that this is "keeping them saved".
Whereas the other half of the body of Christ is trusting in Jesus to keep them saved.
So, do you see the line in the sand?
Its this " What is keeping you SAVED"....that is the minefield of theological confusion.
THATS the fight.
Legalism vs Grace.
Its happening on every forum like this one, and its the reason for 5000 denominations that don't agree, and 300 bibles that don't agree.
This issue started with Paul and his preaching of "justification by Faith" >alone, and he wrote the letter to the Galatians that talks about it, and explains it.
2000 yrs later, this issue of Legalism vs Grace is still a fist fight between "Christians".
Here on this forum, apparently they outlawed the battle. :)

Isn't it interesting to realize that if the 10 commandments, or lawkeeping, or living holy, could save you or keep you saved, if that were the truth, then Jesus could have stayed in Heaven and saved Himself some PAIN.....
But ita not the case.
Now im not certain what you have been taught, but i teach that you "present your body a living sacrifice" and you to "live holy as God is holy", not to save yourself or keep yourself saved, but because this is what you should do, and what God expects, .. because you ARE saved.
The Legalist would argue that .."no, you do it to stay saved", and if you don't then you're not.
I wonder, reader, what you believe.
However, keep it to yourself, as this is between you and God, tho make sure you get it right, as if you get it wrong and you are teaching it, then Galatians 1:8 has become quite a literal issue for you.


So, leaving all that now, lets just look at the problem that God had to come here and solve for us, as to look at this, is to understand the reason for Salvation which is to understand Salvation.
Our problem we had, before we were saved, is only one thing, one issue only. And God Himself had to solve it, because we can't.
We are born, and we get older, and we don't have any righteousness.
None.
And so, God can't accept us, because we are UNRIGHTEOUS.
This is "lost", "unsaved"....hellbound = we don't have any RIGHTEOUSNESS< as all of ours, are "filthy rags".
So, in steps SALVATION... Down from Heaven God as The Christ arrives... The Cross has been raised.... As God bleeding out on the "tree" has come down from Heaven to give us HIS righteousness so that He can accept us, based on THAT.......and for no other reason will He accept you, or me.
God, literally became a man, and died on a Cross, to GIVE US "the righteousness of Christ". (God's very own righteousness).
And that is what salvation actually is....Its God coming to earth to give us His righteousness so that HE can accept us, as by giving us His very righteousness, this makes us acceptable to God.
Welcome to Salvation.
Salvation is only.... "what makes you acceptable to God"....and that is one thing, its GOD'S Righteousness, becoming ours.
A born again person, has literally BECOME "the righteousness of Christ", and Christ is GOD.

To say that God's Grace is amazing, is really the least of what it is...
How can you describe the wonder of God, dying to give you His righteousness in place of your unrighteousness, as a free Gift?
Is there a word that can even claim to honor this spiritual transaction enough?
Just one.
LOVE.
Agape` Love.
God is LOVE.
Hey Dude,
Ya gotta learn to write less!
When you gonna do this?
 

Nathan12

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Many have a problem understanding sanctification.
You are so right. God saves people so that eventually they will resemble Christ. Which means holiness and righteousness in practical everyday matters.

What should be happening in every evangelical church is that once a person is saved, a mature Christian needs to be assigned to that individual so that they can be discipled one-on-one on a regular basis. Then sanctification (and all the teaching regarding that) should be presented in everyday language.

Sanctification also has three tenses:
1. We have been sanctified by the gift of the Spirit
2. We are being sanctified by the power of the Spirit
3. We shall be glorified when we see Christ at the Resurrection/Rapture.
 

wondering

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You are so right. God saves people so that eventually they will resemble Christ. Which means holiness and righteousness in practical everyday matters.

What should be happening in every evangelical church is that once a person is saved, a mature Christian needs to be assigned to that individual so that they can be discipled one-on-one on a regular basis. Then sanctification (and all the teaching regarding that) should be presented in everyday language.

Sanctification also has three tenses:
1. We have been sanctified by the gift of the Spirit
2. We are being sanctified by the power of the Spirit
3. We shall be glorified when we see Christ at the Resurrection/Rapture.
Good point re sanctification.
Saved comes in 3 tenses also,,,
As does sanctification: We are BEING sanctified, and we WILL be sanctified. There is one verse in the N.T. that says we were washed, we were sanctified - as if it's in the past and done with, but all the N.T. shows that it's an on-going cooperation between us and God.
1 Corinthians 6:11

I attended a small church where the pastor was very good in teaching and he discipled the entire congregation on a regular basis.

Then, every so often, he'd have a discipleship class that lasted a whole year, which I attended, and that helped me a lot toward understanding about the Holy Spirt and also about the importance of witnessing to grow the Kingdom of God.
 

Truthfrees

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one thing many people don't realize is that keeping God's 10 commandments or His 613 laws was NEVER God's method to be saved - even in the 1st 5 books of the Bible -

iow jews never kept God's commands to be saved and still don't keep God's laws to be saved - anyone keeping God's laws to be saved is misunderstanding the purpose God gave us His holy laws

they are God's wisdom for a good lifestyle

if we who are BA decide that we can now kill/lie/steal/etc we are greatly deceiving ourselves and misunderstanding God's grace in it's fullness - God's grace is ALSO God's ability working in us helping us to stop sinning and live a good lifestyle

a good lifestyle blesses everyone - a sinful lifestyle hurts everyone - salvation is a separate issue - even the OT says God ALONE saves - Psalms 62:5-7
 

DeepWater

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This is true as it applies to being justified by grace and receiving the imputed righteousness of Christ. But that is the starting point of salvation. Salvation includes three aspects shown to us in Scripture:

Justification -- saved from the penalty of sin
Sanctification -- saved from the power of sin in our lives
Glorification -- saved from the presence of sin by being perfected

The reason that Jesus said "it is finished" on the Cross is because, its true.

And the words you have used Justificaiton, Sanctification, and Glorification, are ours already because of this verse.

1 Corinthians 1:30 ....

"But of him are ye (born again) in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption "

So, according to this verse, these words you were using, are "made unto us", as a part of our Redemption.
And the reason we are these things, is because Christ is these things....
And We are "in Christ' and "Christ in US the hope of GLORY".

So, we dont work for this, or strive for this, as we ARE ALREADY, these, because of this verse. "as Jesus IS< so are WE in this world". 1 John 4:17

Salvation is not something we are doing for God. It is something that God as Jesus on the Cross, did for the WORLD.
And if there were no people on it, Salvation is still the same. It is a finished work, a sacrifice, a Blood Atonement, and it is "made unto us", as 1 Corinthians 1:30 explains.
The only part a person plays in Salvation, is to receive it.

Salvation is seldom taught correctly, and that is why most believers have no idea what happened to them, when they were born again.
And to understand what Salvation actually is, you have to understand why God had to do it, for us.

The issue is "righteousness", as we dont have any, as all ours are "filthy rags",
And God who IS Righteousness, and can't fellowship with unrighteousness, desiged a way to give us HIS......we are "made righteous", we are become the "righteousness of Christ", if we are born again".......and that is > Salvation.
Salvation is God giving us His righteousness, and this is explained in terminology you quoted that is explained by 1 Corinthians 1:30.

A born again person, has the Righteousness of Christ, and Christ has our sin.
That is what happened on the Cross.
Romans 4:8 teaches that once we are born again, that God never again charges us with our sin, and this is because He already charged Christ with it all.

And notice one more thing. 1 Corinthians 1:30
"but of HIM are ye, IN Christ".
The "Him" is God, and the IN CHRIST is God putting us there.
This is our standing and our state, and isn't influenced by our behavior, as it was not created by our behavior.
Its created by the Blood of God, as Jesus on the Cross.
This creates How God sees you, when you are born again.
We have nothing to do with this, because Salvation does not come from us.
It comes from the ONE who SAVED us.

And this all is explained by this verse.

Philippians 1:6
"God who BEGAN a good work in you (Salvation), by putting you into Christ.... will be FAITHFUL to complete It.." "It" is your salvation.
God completes it, as well as gives it.
He begins it and completes it.
This is why its called a "GIFT", the "gift of salvation".
And even your FAITH, is completed by God.

Hebrews 12:2 "Jesus (God) is the AUTHOR and FINISHER of ......YOUR FAITH".
That is not you.

So, the way you understand Salvation, principally, and perfectly, is that God started it and will complete it, and Jesus is the author and finisher of your Fatih.

This leaves us out of it, except to RECEIVE IT.
 
Last edited:

stovebolts

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The problem is that so many try to bring the Gospel teachings to their own understanding instead of understanding what has already been written.
Its not so much what is written, but understanding that which is written. Without discernment its easy to get lost with systematic approaches.
 

for_his_glory

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There are five requirements to Salvation
1. Confession - Acts 2:21; Romans 10:9, 10
2. Repentance - Mark 1:14, 15
3. Faith - John 3:14-18
4. Regeneration - John 3:3-8
5. Holy Scripture - 2 Timothy 3:15

Jesus said in John 17:16, 17 we are separated unto God as Gods word is truth and good for us as we are no longer of this world. 2 Peter 3:18 tells us to grow in grace and in the knowledge of Christ as He is our Lord and Savior, but vs. 17 says to beware not to be led away with the error of the wicked as we need to stay stedfast in the knowledge of the Lord.

Acts 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

No one could be justified by the old covenant laws as for one thing they had no saving provisions within it that brought anyone to faith, but led them to condemnation. The old covenant brought condemnation with it as no one could seem to follow them all. This is why Gods grace brought us into a better new covenant of love through Christ who redeemed us from the curse of the law, Matthew 22:37-40; Galatians 3:10-15, as Christ came to fulfill that of the Temple rituals and sacrifices, Matthew 5:17, 18. We are still under the moral laws as we are commanded to walk in love within them.
 

stovebolts

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Hi DeepWater,
Nice to meet you!
Just a couple things. First, yes, OSAS has been eliminated for discussion, but not for the reason many find us guilty of. In short, we want to be a community that builds one another up while pushing each other to grow in Christ. Gad, the arguments were so bad that it just brought the ugly out of everyone and instead of unity and brotherly love we had ugly and chaos.

Anyway, can you and I talk about this statement you made earlier? P.s. I've been working 11 hour days, so forgive me if I'm slow to reply.

You said: A born again person, has the Righteousness of Christ, and Christ has our sin.

When I read that, I'm reminded of Romans 3, or was it 4? Anyway, my take away on Gods righteousness is bound in mercy and grace. In other words, God showing mercy and grace upon us is what makes God right, because God is love.

Put it this way, when we think about the trinity, we have to ask why God created us to begin with. Because God is love, he created us to share in that love... A love that has always exited between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

While I agree Jesus has our sin, to have Gods righteousness means we will also show mercy and grace, even to those who persecute us.

I think of it kinda like this. We are forgiven and saved because what God did for us through His Son. It's simply amazing! And that love that has always been shared within the Trinity, well, we are invited into that love and we are strengthen to live into our faith.

Many misunderstand living into their faith and its often twisted into works salvation. But I don't think that's what the biblical authors had in mind when they spoke of baptism and good works. And this is affirmed through the writings of the Early Church. Heck, they talked about Baptism and works completely different than we do today.

Anyway, there is my .02
 

DeepWater

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Hi DeepWater,

While I agree Jesus has our sin, to have Gods righteousness means we will also show mercy and grace, even to those who persecute us.

Hi StoveBolts,

Yes, if the bible says that Jesus bore our sin on the Cross, then who are we to not believe it. ?
After all, if we are born again, then we have now become "the righteousness of Christ", and Jesus "became (our) sin". 2nd Corinthians 5:21, and what is also amazing, is that its God His Father that "made" this all happen.
Here is a pretzel.....God is Jesus on the Cross, sending Himself down from Heaven, to Die as a Man.
In John 1:10, Jesus was "standing on the earth/world HE CREATED", = "God said, LET THERE BE", in Genesis....... and this is JESUS now standing on it, and soon He was going to be hanging between the earth and sky that HE Created with.... words....and Jesus is the WORD ..... made flesh.

So, ...... moving now back into the original discussion....
Jesus is not just dying for sin, He literally became sin.
I'll show you somehting else that is pretty interesting, as maybe you've not thought this or been shown it before....and if you have...then plz pardon my eager redundancy.

You all know this verse......
"we are not UNDER the Law but we are UNDER Grace".
In other words, the reason for the Law....is that the law shows us our sinfulness, as this is the purpose of it, which then leads us to the One who dies for them on the Cross, gives us His Righteousness......you know, (Salvation).

But notice this.... our NT says that the LAW was abolished, being NAILED to the Cross.
Colossians 2:14
Now this does not mean the law and the 10 C's are no longer behavioral lifestyle guides regarding our Christian Discipleship, sure...but what it means is that because Jesus fulfilled the law in our place, the law now has no authority to judge us as sinners.
Remember, God's law does this, not Jesus, not God.
This is why Jesus never JUDGED any one, He always said. "sins are forgiven", "go thy way"...etc..... as that is why HE CAME, whereas the Law can not do this, it can only judge you to be a sinner, based on ITSELF as it reveals God's morally righteous moral code.
OK, getting long here, but i love to teach.

So, Jesus abolished the law (took away its power to judge us as sinners), which is why Romans 4:8 has to be understood fully or Salvation can't be completely accepted or understood as it is meant to be, in both cases.

So, there is Jesus, dying on the cross, and where is the Law that is abolished and NAILED to the Cross with him??
Its nailed.
Where?
Its above his HEAD.
He is UNDER THE LAW, on the Cross, DYING.
And we are NOT UNDER IT< because He died under it.....for us.

"You are not UNDER the Law but under GRACE , <. see that? = Because Jesus is UNDER IT, on the Cross. He took away its power to JUDGE a born again believer.
His death FINISHED not only our Eternal Redemption, but it also forever eliminated the Law's Legal right to judge us as SINNERS.



dw
 
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stovebolts

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Hi dw,
Sure, I've heard all that before, but here's the real deal most Christians don't understand.

We were never under "The Law" ie 613 of them.

Those laws were specifically for the Jews who voluntarily entered into Gods marriage covenant at Mt. Sinai.

Even back then God showed his mercy and grace as they defiled the marriage with the golden calf before the marriage was consummated. This is the reason for Yom Kippur, because by all right, God would have been justified starting over with just Moses.

If we understand that, many versus in Romans takes on a different meaning.

Thoughts?
 

for_his_glory

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So, Jesus abolished the law (took away its power to judge us as sinners), which is why Romans 4:8 has to be understood fully or Salvation can't be completely accepted or understood as it is meant to be, in both cases.

To all those who think that all the laws have been fulfilled in Christ you are very wrong as below are the laws that are written upon our heart and can only be fulfilled when Christ returns and makes an end to sin by throwing it into the lake of fire with that of the beast and the false prophets. The only laws that Christ has fulfilled so far are that of the Temple and its sacrifices. Someone please show me in scripture where Jesus has fulfilled all the laws, because in Matthew 22:35-40 and Matthew 5:17, 18 Jesus does not say that he has already fulfilled all of them, but that love was the greatest of them all.

There are laws (commandments) of God that were especially written just for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite. Then there are the existing moral laws (commandments) for all of us to still follow as in prayers and blessings, love and brotherhood. The poor and unfortunate, treatment of the Gentiles, Marriage, divorce and family. Forbidden sexual relations, business practices, employees and servants. Vows, oaths, swearing, Court and Judicial procedures. Injuries and damages, property and property rights, criminal laws. Prophecy, idolatry and all its practices as the moral laws (commandments) keep us in line with the will of God.
 

Nathan12

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But notice this.... our NT says that the LAW was abolished, being NAILED to the Cross. Colossians 2:14
That would be a misunderstanding of what is actually stated in Colossians 2:14.

King James Bible
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances [ χειρόγραφον
τοῖς δόγμασιν (cheirographon tois dogmasin)] that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
New International Version
having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.
English Standard Version
by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.
New American Standard Bible
having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

As you can see, it was NOT the Law that was abolished in this verse, but the legal charges against us which added up to a huge sin debt that needed to be paid. It would be equivalent to each sinner standing in a court of law and legal charges being brought against him/her for all the violations of the Ten Commandments. That list of charges was nailed to the cross when Christ was made SIN for us. And the full penalty was paid for all our sins in full.

As to the abolishment of the Law, Christians need to be clear that the Law of Moses consists of a number of different kinds of laws. And It was primarily the laws pertaining to the Levitical priesthood, the tabernacle, the temple, the sacrifices, the feasts, festivals, holy days, and ceremonial observances, which were all fufilled in Christ on the cross, thus abolished.

However, the Ten Commandments -- being divine eternal moral and spiritual standards -- cannot be abolished. However, Christ distilled them into the Law of Love or the Law of Christ.
 

DeepWater

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Hi dw,
Sure, I've heard all that before, but here's the real deal most Christians don't understand.

We were never under "The Law" ie 613 of them.

Those laws were specifically for the Jews who voluntarily entered into Gods marriage covenant at Mt. Sinai.

Even back then God showed his mercy and grace as they defiled the marriage with the golden calf before the marriage was consummated. This is the reason for Yom Kippur, because by all right, God would have been justified starting over with just Moses.

If we understand that, many versus in Romans takes on a different meaning.

Thoughts?

Sure.
The whole world is guilty before God, based on the Law and the 10.
Its the literal justification that God uses to prove that we are lost, and in need of redemption.
Even tho the law is "come by moses and grace and truth by Jesus", and "Jesus came to the House of Israel"........all this is true, as you are describing.
But then..... The Cross was raised and "time of the Gentiles entered in", Luke 21:24. and yet this same Jewish law and Moses 10 C's, were still the effective "judge" that deems all humanity guilty, before the Holiness of God.
So, before Jesus was crucified, the law could not save anyone, and After Jesus the Law can not save anyone, but, because of the Law, "sinner" now are shown THE WAY they can be saved from their eternal damnation that is pointing at them through the Law.

Not only is the world guilty, before God, based on the Law and the 10Cs, but because of THIS, = "For God so loved the WORLD that He Gave Jesus" .to the World, as its the Law that creates all of us, universally guilty, and leads us all to the Cross.

So, on one hand The chosen people who were given the law, were the main thing, before the Cross was raised.
But, after Jesus's death, the entire world is now become capable of being "God's family"., and not just Jews.

What you are talking about is also reflected by the fact that Peter's idea of "salvation" for the first 10 yrs after Christ ascended, was "jews" and "law" + Christ.
But once The Cross was raised and God began to "draw all men", and "whosoever will", and "ALL that call on the name"........once this came into service by the Blood Atonement, then Peter had to be taught what we now understand as Paul's revelation as
"Justification by Faith, alone".
Notice in Acts 9 that Peter had no idea, was CLUELESS, that Gentiles could be saved.
He was still running the Moses Law Game in his head, "Its all about the law", and then in Chapter 10, of the Acts of the Apostles, Jesus/God gave him a Sunday School lesson, and after it was over, Peter understood the revelation that Paul was always preaching.
Buy Acts 15, most of the Apostles seemed to be all be on the same page, regarding "faith with out works". Romans 3:28
This all came from Paul.


thanx for the question.



dw
 

DeepWater

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That would be a misunderstanding of what is actually stated in Colossians 2:14.

King James Bible
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances [ χειρόγραφον
τοῖς δόγμασιν (cheirographon tois dogmasin)] that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
New International Version
having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.

Hey Nathan12, how are you doing?

You are not seeing that the debt is created by the effect of the Law.
So, when you remove the Law, you cancel the debt that we "owe".
When you remove the "debt" we owe, How is this accomplished? its resolved because what has created the debt is resolved.
They are hand in hand, resolved.
You cancel the law, by abolishing it with a Cross, and this redeems instantly and then eternally cancels the debt that was caused, created, and kept by the law ....against us.

Remember, that it was not the debt that was abolished and nailed to the Cross.
It was the Law.
The law is what created the debt you are referring to that we no longer owe or find ourselves under.... "you are not under the law, you are UNDER GRACE"
Christ paid this debt, and cancelled it......He Cancelled the Law's ability to hold us in "debt".
= "nailing it to the Cross".
This is what the death of Christ accomplished for us all, if we are born again.
Cancelling the debt, is forgiving our sins.
And the blood of Jesus, keeps on canceling it, which explains Romans 4:8
 
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