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The Handful Theory

Do you believe in the Ultimate Redemption of all Creation?


  • Total voters
    5
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phatdawg

Guest
I have been using the term "handful theory" alot lately. And for the sake of not leaving a question in anyone's mind; I will define that phrase like this:

Handful Theory: noun--The supposition that inspite of all He has done, all that He has said to the contrary; and inspite of the fact that God killed His own Son to save all creation; in the end God will be forced to settle for just a small handful of mankind as His consolation prize. Eternal Torment and Annihilation fall under the umbrella of this definition.


Inspite of how it is worded, or who says it, the teachings of Eternal Torment and Annihilation leave God with only a small handful that He was able to scrape together when all is said and done.

However; there is a more excellent way.
In John 3:16-17, Jesus used the word "kosmos" 4 times.
If that was the only verse that said such a thing, I would still be left no viable option but to conclude that God's intent isn't just to save a few men. No, as we take the definition of Kosmos out into all it's varying dimensions of meaning, we see that God planned to save all mankind. But not only that, it was His intention to save, deliver and or protect the planet Earth and all the creatures on it. But it goes beyond that to envelope the planets included in this galaxy, and all the galaxies in this universe, to the farthest star that Hubble could ever see. And not only that, but the definition of kosmos includes all the creatures that exist anywhere in any part of it, on whatever realm they exist on (spiritual or physical), and the laws that govern their existence.
All of this is spoken to us in John 3:16-17
God is not interested in a paltry handful. HE WANTS IT ALL! If it were not so, He would have told us so.
 
C

cj

Guest
Yet God tells us that a handful of purity has eternal value. Whereas a ton of mixture is good only to be thrown out.

The longer you try to understand God's ways from your unrenewed mind, the further away from God you will reason yourself.

You view it as the handful theory, God views it as the principle of purity.

But one just won't see it from the disadvantage point of before the altar of UR doctrine.


In love,
cj
 

stovebolts

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PhatDawg,

Do you mock our Lord?

Job 40:6-12 Then answered the LORD unto Job out of the whirlwind, and said, Gird up your loins now like a man: I will demand of you, and declare you unto me. Will you also annul my judgment? will you condemn me, that you may be righteous? Have you an arm like God? or can you thunder with a voice like him? Deck yourself now with majesty and splendor; and array yourself with glory and beauty. Put forth the rage of your wrath: and behold every one that is proud, and abase him. Look on every one that is proud, and bring him low; and tread down the wicked in their place.

For it is written

Job 40:14 Then will I also confess unto you that your own right hand can save you.

The choice is clearly ours.
 
C

Charlotte

Guest
stovebolts,

phatdawg is giving all the power into God's hands, don't you see that???
To say we have power to save ourselves is to take taway the power of God. To say that only a few will be saved is making the love of God a lesser love than man's. It really makes God a weak, uncaring, not very powerful God.


Job 40:14 God is telling Job if Job can do all the things in the previous verses that God will tell Job that he can save himself. But since Job could not do any of those things then God is saying "Job your right hand can't save you". God is saying "you cannot save yourself". Do you not see this????

Charlotte

Charlotte
 

stovebolts

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Charlotte said:
stovebolts,

phatdawg is giving all the power into God's hands, don't you see that???
To say we have power to save ourselves is to take taway the power of God. To say that only a few will be saved is making the love of God a lesser love than man's. It really makes God a weak, uncaring, not very powerful God.


Job 40:14 God is telling Job if Job can do all the things in the previous verses that God will tell Job that he can save himself. But since Job could not do any of those things then God is saying "Job your right hand can't save you". God is saying "you cannot save yourself". Do you not see this????



Charlotte

Ahhh, YOU GET A COOKIE!! Context, your finally getting it! :wink:

Follow along now...
For God so loved the world, that HE gave his only begotton son, that whosoever BELIEVES in him, shall not PERISH, but have EVERLASTING life...

hmm, you mean we actually have to do something? :-?
 
C

Charlotte

Guest
stovebolts,

Even our belief is given to us, we can't take credit for it. So, it really isn't nothing that we do of our own.

Charlotte
 
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phatdawg

Guest
Stovebolts:
You are drunk on the wine of the fury of God's wrath. Your reasoning is therefore impaired.
From another thread that I know you were just on today:
[quote:28711]
For by grace are you saved, and that not of yourselves it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.
If your reasoning is correct, then you have every reason to boast that you have brought about your own salvation. As a matter of fact, that is what your words seem to be doing.

If it isn't "magically bestowed upon us" then we won't ever get it, and there is no place in scripture that indicates that we might.

Actually, you and those like you seem to fail the simple test that Jesus lay before Nicodemus in John 3:
If I have told you of earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall you believe if I tell you of heavenly things?
You seem to stumble over the simplicity of God being Sovereign even over the "free will of man" <which is a farce> and come up with all manner of unscriptural/anti-scriptural "theologies" to make it all seem ok.
[/quote:28711]
 

stovebolts

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No my dear friend, I am not drunk.

Ephesians 5:15-18 See then that you walk carefully, not as fools, but as wise, Redeeming the time, because the days are evil. Therefore be not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is. And be not drunk with wine, in which is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

Where I dis-agree, you speak in theory. I believe you use the 5th and 6th definition from Dictionary.com

theory
5. A belief or principle that guides action or assists comprehension or judgment:
6. An assumption based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture.

For we are told

1 Corinthians 3:18-20 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seems to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He takes the wise in their own craftiness. And again, The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.

and that kind of thinking leads to deceit.

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
 
E

evanman

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Redemption is of sinners not absolutely everything ever created.

Christ's sacrifice was not to redeem every blade of grass, and every speck of dust!
 

smaller

 
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I voted yes, but of course evanman has a legitimate and valid point. Not all "material" will by requirement be "saved."

There are many things created that will not be redeemed or reconciled or renewed according to The Word. Too many to list at this point,

but a valid review is always in order over blind blanket statements of "reconciliation" of all things that directly contradict The Word.
 
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cj

Guest
You're writing living letters on your heart as well as those who read what you write StoveBolts.

This is the wonder...... fullness of speaking scripture from the source of scripture.

Keep in mind that the pure content in our spirit must pass through our in-need-of-constant-cleansing conscience though, as in the same way that pure water can become contaminated as it rises up through the various levels of soil, so to can the pure living word become contaminated as it passes through areas of our yet-to-be-perfected soul.

But this is why we are to be before the Lord constantly, and why the eternally fresh blood of our Lord is so important.

In the book of Revelation, the Spirit tells us that the saints OVERCAME Satan...... "because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they loved not their soul-life even unto death."

And we can know, that those in the only local church situation that was not rebuked by the Lord, Philadelphia, had been able to keep from falling because of two things...... "because you have a little power and have kept My word and have not denied My name."

The content of these two verses, when related to the reality of our Lord's coming being one where He comes as the righteous Judge, one who will compensate His own according to the principle of His parable about the servants and the talents they were given, is absolutely crucial regarding what is needed/required of each believer.

Know what the Lord meant in these verses my brother.

In love,
cj
 
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phatdawg

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The term "drunk" may have been just a touch inflammatory, so let me explain what I meant:

Drunk on the wine of the fury of God's wrath: an unintentionally inflammatory remark
Meaning that:
You are so infatuated with the notion that you are not going to have to spend eternity with all of the bad people of the world, that you can't see the plain truth when it is written blatantly in black and white on the pages of scripture that you think teaches your version of the handful theory.

I hope that cleared up any misconception.

My definition of theory is simply "an idea that is taught as truth, but has never been proven to be factually correct. re:evolution theory"

And your misappropriation of scripture didn't even apply to this. Thank you anyway, StoveBolts

Evanman and Smaller: If the birds and the bees, and the leaves on the trees, and even the dust of the earth will not be reconciled, (which is the word used for this), then, what meaneth the scriptures when they speak of "every created thing..." in Revelation 5:13, or in the several other place that speak of "all things; whether they be of heaven or of Earth, things visible or invisible..."? Or how about the heavens and the earth being dissolved in a fervent heat? Do you think those are just strange scriptures that don't apply to any of God's Master Plan?

ALL of His creation is to be reconciled back to Him. From the most obscure sub-atomic particle that makes up the substance of this planet, to the the smallest particle that makes up the very last star He created; ALL came from Him, ALL will be gathered back to Him, and by the time He is finished with ALL of this, it will ALL be an expression of His glory.

Turn me loose so I can dance!
 

stovebolts

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phatdawg said:
The term "drunk" may have been just a touch inflammatory, so let me explain what I meant:

Drunk on the wine of the fury of God's wrath: an unintentionally inflammatory remark
Meaning that:
You are so infatuated with the notion that you are not going to have to spend eternity with all of the bad people of the world, that you can't see the plain truth when it is written blatantly in black and white on the pages of scripture that you think teaches your version of the handful theory.

I hope that cleared up any misconception.

Actually, your whole theory is based on misconception. I am in no manner infatuated with any notion of eternity. What I am insistant on is spreading the gospel, and not mans vision or interpretation of it.
That being said, I have seen other URist twist and distort scripture through their blatent use of the greek language associated with commentary based on man's view which is dirived from assumption hence creating their "Theory".
BTW, excuse me for being a bit slow, but I've never heard of the "handful theory"...
:roll:

phatdawg said:
My definition of theory is simply "an idea that is taught as truth, but has never been proven to be factually correct. re:evolution theory"

So, you teach something as truth, even though it's not factually correct? Kind of smells funny to me. :wink:

phatdawg said:
And your misappropriation of scripture didn't even apply to this. Thank you anyway, StoveBolts

Really? And is sound doctrine based on assumption and theory?

I will not eat rocks
Luke 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
 
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phatdawg

Guest
Ok, let's slow down. Take a deep breath and realx. This thing could very quickly jump the track and no longer resemble an intelligent discussion among adults.

Actually, I don't teach theory, and it isn't based on misconception.

And if the "handful theory" is a new concept to you, re-read my definition at the top of the page here. It is a term I use. I only started this thread so that someone seeing my use of that phrase somewhere else would know what I was talking about.

And come on, I never said you were going to eat rocks! I don't know how you came up with that, unless you were purposely trying to misapropriate scripture to give it a meaning it was never intended to have.
 

stovebolts

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phatdawg said:
God is not interested in a paltry handful. HE WANTS IT ALL! If it were not so, He would have told us so.

paltry:
1. Lacking in importance or worth.
2. Wretched or contemptible.

I believe you were speaking about the ones that actually take the Bible at face value?

Is your intent with this thread to justify the putrescent belief that all mankind will be saved simply because God loves them with your ostentatious yet adroit wisdom?

As far as the rocks, I will be fed through scripture, not the wisdom of man.
 
C

cj

Guest
phatdawg said:
You are so infatuated with the notion that you are not going to have to spend eternity with all of the bad people of the world....


You become what you eat.


It seems tha Phatdawg is so infatuated with people that he has failed to realize that when a person is in love this person has eyes only for the object of there love.

Bad people, good people, inbetween people..... whatever...... these are all according to fallen human concepts.

Jesus is who we have eyes for. Only Jesus.

But Phatdawg, cannot seem to grasp this reality.

And why? False doctrine and the result of worshipping it.

You become what you eat.

Eat false doctrine and your eyes become blind to the reality of Christ.

But feast your eyes only on Christ.... Hallelujah, your become Christ.

"But we all with unveiled face, beholding and reflecting like a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, even as from the Lord Spirit."


Isn't it wonderful (and safe) to have no other notion than Lord Jesus?


Do you know that a dove can only see one object at a time?


This is why our eyes are becoming like the eyes of a dove.

Single in view.


In love,
cj
 
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phatdawg

Guest
Stovie boy,
My ostentatios and adroit wisdom has nothing to do with what I teach. It is what has been given to me to be able to see. I have no problem seeing my God big enough to save the whole world, but for some reason, you handful types insist on putting restrictions on God and saying He can't do it.
He can.
He said it was His desire to do so.
He sent His Son into the cosmos for that specific purpose.
He is the Great and terrible God who created all of it.
Why would you want to say He can't/won't/never said He would?
You can't prove your point strictly from scriptures without adding all manner of carnal traditions, fables, fairy tales, and plain old outright pagan superstition to the scripture to make it all come out right, so why bother?

The Ultimate Redemptive purposes of God are written on nearly every page of scripture, and those scriptures do a fine job of telling the story without having to add anything to them.

As far as my use of the word "Paltry" goes; I actually used the term "paltry handful". An insignificantly small lot in comparison to what He intended to gather. I have no problem with the idea of a remnant. God will have a remnant. But when He gathers His remnant, He ain't nowheres near finished with His Master plan. It's just getting started good when He gathers His remnant.
 
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