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The IMPOSSIBLE THREAD ON partial PRETERISM !!

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And now back to Daniel -- when I saw all those versions on Blueletterbible.org about UNTO and UNTIL in Daniel 9:25 -- I also checked the passage in Lamsa's Holy Bible From Ancient Eastern Manuscripts.

It's an off-the-wall version from the Syriac/Aramaic texts, the "Peshitta" as that version is known

and I typed it out just for completeness of checking versions:

25 Know therefore and understand that from the going forth of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of the Messiah the king shall be seven times seven weeks, and sixty-two times seven weeks; the people shall return and build Jerusalem, its streets, and its broad ways at the end of the appointed times.
26 After sixty-two times seven weeks, Messiah shall be slain, and the city shall be without a ruler; and the holy city shall be destroyed together with the coming king; and the end thereof shall be a mass exile, and at the end of the war, desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for seven weeks and half of seven weeks, then he shall cause the sacrifice and gift offerings to cease, and upon the horns of the altar the abomination of desolation; and the desolation shall continue until the end of the appointed time; the city shall remain desolate

NOTE: the section of Daniel we are dealing with was NOT one of the sections of Daniel written in Aramaic, it's in Hebrew
 
You keep making this same statement over and over again, but you have failed in identifying for me what this gross misunderstanding of the scripture is.

The gross misunderstanding of scripture that Preterism is built upon is:

Jesus was referring to Zechariah and the army that will be surrounding Jerusalem at the time when the Lord returns with His saints from heaven, and the resurrection/rapture, and not the events of 70 AD.



JLB
 
Disciples thought the destruction of THAT TEMPLE -- and Parousia - and "end of the age" had to be all at the same time.

They were wrong.

If that is what the disciples thought then Jesus corrected their misunderstanding in the Olivet Discourse, since there is no mention of the destruction of the city and sanctuary in the Olivet Discourse, which refers to Zechariah and his prophecy.


The very prophesy spoken by Jesus Himself, out of the mouth of Zechariah.



JLB
 
Mat 24:34
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Why is there such an ABSOLUTE REFUSAL not to believe Jesus when He talks about THIS GENERATION??!!!???

It's in Luke, it's in Matthew, it's in MARK !!!

Yes the generation that sees the Abomination of Desolation, and wars and rumors of wars, and the increase in hurricanes and earthquakes, and especially... the sun being darkened and the moon will not give it's light and the stars will fall from heaven and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth... will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven.



25 “And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.” Luke 21:25-28


Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place.



JLB
 
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The gross misunderstanding of scripture that Preterism is built upon is:

Jesus was referring to Zechariah and the army that will be surrounding Jerusalem at the time when the Lord returns with His saints from heaven, and the resurrection/rapture, and not the events of 70 AD.



JLB


I am still not seeing the big misunderstanding here. Are you saying that Jesus, when referring to the temple and not one stone standing upon another, was NOT a prophecy of the destruction of the temple in 70AD. What exactly are you trying to say? That the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD had NO PROPHETICAL significance?

Are you saying that Jesus was talking to the disciples specifically about Zechariah 14, and that this has not yet been fulfilled?

What exactly is it then that a preterist actually believes concerning these scriptures?
 
Luk 21:20
And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.


Luk 21:21
Then let them which are in Judaea flee

to the mountains;

and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.


Luk 21:22

For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.





Zec 14:4

And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

Zec 14:5

And ye shall flee

to the valley of the mountains;

for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.


These are two different FLEEINGS. If Jesus on Olivet Discourse wanted to say "you better flee through the VALLEY after Mount of Olives splits !! - He could have said "Flee through the VALLEY"

He did NOT. He just said "flee to the mountains". Which Christians DID - and made it to Pella.

The GROSS MISUNDERSTANDING is that these two "fleeings" are either the same, or swapped for each other. They are not the same, and the FLEEING that actually happenned in 70 AD is the one Jesus is speaking of in Olivet Discourse.


Do ya know the difference between MOUNTAINS and a VALLEY?
 
Yes the generation that sees the Abomination of Desolation...


Awww, now we're back to this jazz about "the generation that sees these things" -- which can be punted off indefinitely into the future -- rather than THIS GENERATION, the one Jesus was in, the one of which He said "there be some standing here who will not taste death until..."
 
Mat 16:28

Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.


Mar 9:1

And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.


Luk 9:27

But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
 
I am still not seeing the big misunderstanding here. Are you saying that Jesus, when referring to the temple and not one stone standing upon another, was NOT a prophecy of the destruction of the temple in 70AD.


My Point as I have stated throughout this thread is: The events of 70 AD are not mentioned in the Olivet Discourse.


The Olivet Discourse started with these words of Jesus, which I will highlight in blue.

3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. Matthew 24:4-6


This phrase spoken by Jesus was not part of the Olivet Discourse, which took place in the Temple area.

Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.” Matthew 24:1-2


The actual Olivet Discourse does not mention the destruction of the city and sanctuary, which took place in 70 AD.


The Olivet Discourse is about His Coming, and the end of the age.



JLB
 
Mat 16:28

Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.


Mar 9:1

And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.


Luk 9:27

But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.



Yes, John saw His coming and recorded for us in the book of Revelation.

11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. Revelation 19:11-15


JLB
 
My Point as I have stated throughout this thread is: The events of 70 AD are not mentioned in the Olivet Discourse.
That is the opinion of you and others .. it is an opinion .. that does not make it correct or incorrect ..
 
Awww, now we're back to this jazz about "the generation that sees these things" -- which can be punted off indefinitely into the future -- rather than THIS GENERATION, the one Jesus was in, the one of which He said "there be some standing here who will not taste death until..."

10 “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.
Zechariah 12:10


30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Matthew 24:30


The coming of the Lord was spoken of by the Spirit of Christ through the mouth of Zechariah, and taught by Him in the flesh on the mount of Olives.



JLB
 
That is the opinion of you and others .. it is an opinion .. that does not make it correct or incorrect ..


Please point out the scripture in the Olivet Discourse that mentioned the destruction of the city and sanctuary, that occurred in 70 AD.



JLB
 
John seeing things in Revelation -- Stephen seeing things as he was martyred -- the High Priest of Jesus' day...

I have already said YES SON OF MAN WAS SEEN in heaven - clouds - in power

but I will repeat

never in Olivet discourse does it talk of Jesus FEET HITTING THE EARTH

Zech 12 may be fulfilled in people "looking on the pierced one'

but there is nothing about feet hitting earth and Mt of Olives crackin in half -- Zech 14 has ZILCH to do with Olivet Discourse
 
Zech 12 may be fulfilled in people "looking on the pierced one'

but there is nothing about feet hitting earth and Mt of Olives crackin in half -- Zech 14 has ZILCH to do with Olivet Discourse

Joh 19:34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
Joh 19:35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.
Joh 19:36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.
Joh 19:37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.
 
John is one -- who else -- cuz it says SOME


Whoever else that the Lord chose to reveal it to besides John.

Did you consider that the angel who was given to John, could have been standing there when Jesus spoke those words.

...and He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, 2 who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw. Revelation 1:1-2

Why does "some" have to refer to only humans?


I know Stephen was given a vision of Christ seated at the right hand of God.

55 But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, 56 and said, “Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!” Acts 7:55-56


We can become locked into a belief system that may include a possibility that we have not considered.


20 Then Peter, turning around, saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following, who also had leaned on His breast at the supper, and said, “Lord, who is the one who betrays You?” 21 Peter, seeing him, said to Jesus, “But Lord, what about this man?”

22 Jesus said to him, “If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you? You follow Me.”

23 Then this saying went out among the brethren that this disciple would not die. Yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but,If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you?” John 21:20-23



JLB
 
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