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Please point out the scripture in the Olivet Discourse that mentioned the destruction of the city and sanctuary, that occurred in 70 AD.

dad-blast it, no one but YOU is saying "destruction of city and sanctuary" is MENTIONED in Olivet Discourse, JLB!

All Olivet Discourse says is TEMPLE TORN DOWN - not one stone left on another

You are pullin' this and that from Zechariah 14 -- and forcing it into Eschatological Discourse -- and then trying to make others respond to WHAT ONLY YOU PROPOSE !!

Dontcha see this?
 
Did you consider that the angel who was given to John, could have been standing there when Jesus spoke those words.

Hate to break this to ya, JLB -- but ANGELS DON'T TASTE DEATH NOHOW NO WAY ANYWAY -- it would have been meaningless for Jesus to refer to "angels" as "some standing here who will not taste death"

Jesus was talkin' bout PEOPLE -- HU-Mans -- homo sapiens
 
but there is nothing about feet hitting earth and Mt of Olives crackin in half -- Zech 14 has ZILCH to do with Olivet Discourse


  • I see, so you believe the Lord has come with His saints, and the resurrection is past?
Or
  • Maybe you believe the coming of the Lord and the resurrection/rapture will happen more than once?

And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
5 Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.

Thus the Lord my God will come,
And all the saints with You.
Zechariah 14:1-5
 
JLB said:
"
  • I see, so you believe the Lord has come with His saints, and the resurrection is past?
Or
  • Maybe you believe the coming of the Lord and the resurrection/rapture will happen more than once? "


I am only gonna say this once -- I will not respond to anyone who tries to PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH.

Savvy, Tonto?

You have a lot of knowledge, JLB, but I will not let someone TWIST THINGS AND PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH
and STEER THEM TO THEIR OWN ENDS

You got that?

If you want to quote me -- use the quote button or copy it direct -- don't do this "rephrasing into something YOU want to use"
 
My Point as I have stated throughout this thread is: The events of 70 AD are not mentioned in the Olivet Discourse.


The Olivet Discourse started with these words of Jesus, which I will highlight in blue.

3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. Matthew 24:4-6


This phrase spoken by Jesus was not part of the Olivet Discourse, which took place in the Temple area.

Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.” Matthew 24:1-2


The actual Olivet Discourse does not mention the destruction of the city and sanctuary, which took place in 70 AD.


The Olivet Discourse is about His Coming, and the end of the age.



JLB


Ahhh. I see the distinction your trying to make. What it actually has to do with preterism someone is going to have to explain to me. But I see, you are separating and making a distinction between the words of Jesus spoken IN the TEMPLE, and well as those BY the TEMPLE, as be distinct from the words that Jesus actual spoke FROM the MT of OLIVES? So when Jesus responds to the disciples with "not one stone shall be left here upon another that shall not be throne down. You are simply saying that that comment is not part of the olivet discourse.

WHY is it so SIGNIFICANT to you that you keep bringing up the olivet discourse?

Now for some reason you keep looking at the THIS GENERATION that Jesus spoke of as witnessing the temple being thrown down as the same generation that sees the abomination of desolation. But are they the same generation? You see the olivet discourse mentions a generation that sees the Abomination of desolation, and you appear to be attempting to tie this in with the destruction of the city as a preterist belief?

But you see JLB, when Jesus spoke of the stones being thrown down, He was speaking about THIS GENERATION, those that heard the words SPOKEN INSIDE THE TEMPLE.

Matthew 23:34-36
Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.


Matthew 24:1-2
And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.


Now I am going to point out something here, something significant, something that is glaringly missing from the words of Jesus in this passage were he said verily I say unto you..... I think we can agree that in this Jesus is referring to the future destruction of the temple that we know occurred in 70AD. BUT, there are two thing missing from the words of Jesus. He did not say when it would occur (though the disciples did not hesitate to ask), and the second thing is Jesus did not say what things or if all thing had to be fulfilled before the stones would be throne down, only that it would come to pass upon THIS GENERATION.
 
JLB said:
"
  • I see, so you believe the Lord has come with His saints, and the resurrection is past?
Or
  • Maybe you believe the coming of the Lord and the resurrection/rapture will happen more than once? "


I am only gonna say this once -- I will not respond to anyone who tries to PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH.

Savvy, Tonto?

You have a lot of knowledge, JLB, but I will not let someone TWIST THINGS AND PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH
and STEER THEM TO THEIR OWN ENDS

You got that?

If you want to quote me -- use the quote button or copy it direct -- don't do this "rephrasing into something YOU want to use"

You are the one who said... Zechariah 14 has zilch to do with the Olivet Discourse.

The Olivet Discourse describes Jesus coming with His saints, from heaven to earth.

Zechariah 14:5 describes this as well.

Thus the Lord my God will come,
And all the saints with You.

The Olivet Discourse makes no mention of the events of 70 AD, but is describing the events prophesied in Zechariah 14.


JLB
 
I think we can agree that in this Jesus is referring to the future destruction of the temple that we know occurred in 70AD.

You and I can agree with that, ezrider, not all of us here in this thread agree to it at all.
 
Notice how, in Luke, there is no "now He said this in/near the temple, and then he said this 'as He sat on Mt of Olives"


Luk 21:5
And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,

21:6
As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Luk 21:7
And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

See, it just "goes right into the discourse", as soon as the statement is made about Temple destruction, says basically the same thing as in Mark 13 and Matthew 24, then we come to this:


Luk 21:37
And in the day time he was teaching in the temple; and at night he went out, and abode in the mount that is called the mount of Olives.
 
So perhaps GREAT ESCHATOLOGICAL DISCOURSE is the better name; but I still submit -- the statement about Temple destruction -- in all 3 gospels that record the discourse -- is the REASON FOR THE DISCOURSE

It is what made the disciples ask their questions, which, as you will notice, are SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT PHRASING in Mark, Matthew and Luke
 
The Olivet Discourse describes Jesus coming with His saints, from heaven to earth.

Negative. It describes Jesus coming in the clouds -- never does the discourse talk about Jesus' feet hitting the earth.

In other words, not that I am pretrib, but the discourse could be seen to substantiate pretrib, if someone wanted to make a case for a "two-stage coming"
 
These are the references in THE DISCOURSE to Christ's COMING:


Luk 21:27
And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.


Mat 24:30
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Mat 24:31
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


Mar 13:26
And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

13:27
And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.


Nothing in the DISCOURSE about Jesus' feet hitting the earth.
Quite different from Zechariah 14 -- where His feet hit Mt of Olives and split it -- the discourse does not say that.

In fact, except for this phrase:
"and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn"
a pretribber could have a field day with the Discourse's references and try to use it to support a "two-stage coming" and their "secret rapture"
 
WHY is it so SIGNIFICANT to you that you keep bringing up the olivet discourse?


The Olivet Discourse is a reference to Zechariah 14, and the Day of the Lord, in which He comes with His saints.

The Olivet Discourse is not a reference to the events of 70 AD in which the city and sanctuary are destroyed.


Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.” Matthew 24;1-2


This exchange between the disciples and Jesus took place in the Temple area, and is not the Olivet Discourse.

The reference to... not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.... is not the Olivet Discourse.

Zechariah 14, is not a description of the events of 70 AD.




JLB
 
dad-blast it, no one but YOU is saying "destruction of city and sanctuary" is MENTIONED in Olivet Discourse, JLB!


Daniel refers to the events of 70 AD.

“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
Daniel 9:26


Jesus refers to Daniel in the Olivet Discourse, and directs the reader to understand.

Jesus is prophesying about the future, and references the events that will happen just become His Coming.

So it is to the generation that witness' the events that He describes, will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with power and great glory.

20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 22 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. 24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
25 “And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.” Luke 21:20-28

Then they will see the Son of Man coming...

"they"
is a reference to those who witness the signs that He describes.


JLB
 
Again worded slightly different ...
Please point out the scripture mentions the the temple ended ?

the same for all side JLB..


Please point us to the scripture as to the date the Temple ended.


JLB
 
These are the references in THE DISCOURSE to Christ's COMING:


Luk 21:27
And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.


Mat 24:30
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Mat 24:31
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


Mar 13:26
And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

13:27
And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.


Nothing in the DISCOURSE about Jesus' feet hitting the earth.
Quite different from Zechariah 14 -- where His feet hit Mt of Olives and split it -- the discourse does not say that.

In fact, except for this phrase:
"and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn"
a pretribber could have a field day with the Discourse's references and try to use it to support a "two-stage coming" and their "secret rapture"


No such thing as a pretrib Rapture, since the Rapture and Resurrection occur at His coming, along with the destruction of the antichrist, lawless one, man of sin, son of perdition or any other name the bible describes him as.

The Resurrection and Rapture as well as the destruction of the coming antichrist, occur at His coming.

So there is no case for two comings of the Lord, which is why I say if you believe Zechariah 14 and matthew 24 are not a description of the coming of the Lord with His saints, then you must believe there are two of these events in which the lord comes with His saints and destroys the wicked, on the Day of the Lord.


15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-18


This is describing the Day of the Lord, in which the Lord will gather His people together and destroy the antichrist and the wicked.

Zechariah 14, and Matthew 24, and 1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:4, and 2 Thessalonians 2:1-11, as well as 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, as well as other places in which different aspects of this event are described.


so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28



JLB
 
Hate to break this to ya, JLB -- but ANGELS DON'T TASTE DEATH NOHOW NO WAY ANYWAY -- it would have been meaningless for Jesus to refer to "angels" as "some standing here who will not taste death"

Jesus was talkin' bout PEOPLE -- HU-Mans -- homo sapiens

I imagine Jesus was referencing people, the point was to show that what we hear Jesus say, may be different than what He means, which is why I quoted what was said about John.

20 Then Peter, turning around, saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following, who also had leaned on His breast at the supper, and said, “Lord, who is the one who betrays You?” 21 Peter, seeing him, said to Jesus, “But Lord, what about this man?”
22 Jesus said to him, “If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you? You follow Me.”
23 Then this saying went out among the brethren that this disciple would not die. Yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but, “If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you?John 21:20-23



I know Stephen was given a vision of Christ seated at the right hand of God.

55 But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, 56 and said, “Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!” Acts 7:55-56


We can become locked into a belief system that may include a possibility that we have not considered.



And yes, angels can taste death, but as I mentioned Jesus was most likely referring to the people standing there.



JLB
 
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