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The Law: Fulfilled or Abolished?

So you ones that are posting are Led of the Holy Spirit or by MAN???

--Elijah
I noticed it doesn't sit well with people when you tell them you walk by the Spirit when asked if you do.

They turn it on you and start talking about perfection, not sinning, etc. (yada, yada, yada...).

So, now my answer to them is 'yes, whenever I say or do something right I am led by the Spirit."
 
Yes. The official, legal condemnation of written law was added.

Those are your words Brother, not what the scripture says, at all.
"...in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful." (Romans 7:13 NASB)

19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God..." (Romans 3:19 NASB)

The written law established the official, undisputed, legal condemnation of mankind. But a condemnation of official law that is removed with the appearing of Christ, that is for those who believe, and walk according to the Spirit.
 
The written law established the official, undisputed, legal condemnation of mankind. But a condemnation of official law that is removed with the appearing of Christ, that is for those who believe, and walk according to the Spirit.



The Law of sin and death established the legal condemnation of mankind in the garden when Adam transgressed it by disobeying God, and eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.


JLB
 
The Law of sin and death established the legal condemnation of mankind in the garden when Adam transgressed it by disobeying God, and eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Genesis 2:6 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”

I would agree JLB.

I would also add that there are many "Laws" within Torah that have carried forward into different covenants etc.

What makes a discussion of this topic so difficult is the when Paul says "The Law", it can at some times be referring to different parts of the Torah.

Let me see if this helps. Moses wrote Genesis and under Mosiac authority and inspired by God himself. As such, Genesis became as Jethro stated: The written law established the official, undisputed, legal condemnation of mankind. After all, had we not had Genesis 2:6... well, we would be left with only oral tradition, which spanned from Adam to Moses... you get the idea.

So I think we could all use a bit of caution when throwing the word "Law" around as it seems to cause a lot of confusion at times for all parties envolved.
 
So you ones that are posting are Led of the Holy Spirit or by MAN???

--Elijah
I noticed it doesn't sit well with people when you tell them you walk by the Spirit when asked if you do.

They turn it on you and start talking about perfection, not sinning, etc. (yada, yada, yada...).

So, now my answer to them is 'yes, whenever I say or do something right I am led by the Spirit."

Surely you believe the Exod. 20:16 verse?? If so? what do you do with Acts 5:32 by avoiding 7TH Day Sabbath Commandment, with NO conviction to LOVE THE GODHEAD & their 'FIRST' GREAT Commandment???? Matt. 22:35-38

But as you say.. The Holy Spirit has not convicted you! That makes me question Cain in Gen. 4:6-7 for bringing fruit for his offering??
Was it not the Lord in person telling Cain this TRUTH?

--Elijah
 
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The written law established the official, undisputed, legal condemnation of mankind. But a condemnation of official law that is removed with the appearing of Christ, that is for those who believe, and walk according to the Spirit.



The Law of sin and death established the legal condemnation of mankind in the garden when Adam transgressed it by disobeying God, and eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.


JLB
No. This is what I'm talking about:

"26 “Take this book of the law and place it beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may remain there as a witness against you." (Deuteronomy 31:26 NASB)

The law is what was sent into the world to legally condemn each one of us individually. When we sin, the law acts as witness for the prosecution.

"9 I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died...
11 for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me." (Romans 7:9,11 NASB)


Through the law we are made accountable to God, and the legal case for our sin guilt is established without doubt or controversy, legally and officially. In Christ that witness can no longer act as witness to our guilt.


The law was given to make us accountable to God.

The law magnifies and fully exposes our sin for what it is without doubt and opportunity for debate.

The law was given to act as a witness for the prosecution before God.

This 'ministry' of the law--the ministry of death--was added at Mt. Sinai. And was taken away when Christ appeared.

The requirements of the law are NOT what was taken away.
 
So you ones that are posting are Led of the Holy Spirit or by MAN???

--Elijah
I noticed it doesn't sit well with people when you tell them you walk by the Spirit when asked if you do.

They turn it on you and start talking about perfection, not sinning, etc. (yada, yada, yada...).

So, now my answer to them is 'yes, whenever I say or do something right I am led by the Spirit."

Surely you believe the Exod. 20:16 verse?? If so? what do you do with Acts 5:32 by avoiding 7TH Day Sabbath Commandment, with NO conviction to LOVE THE GODHEAD & their 'FIRST' GREAT Commandment???? Matt. 22:35-38

But as you say.. The Holy Spirit has not convicted you! That makes me question Cain in Gen. 4:6-7 for bringing fruit for his offering??
Was it not the Lord in person telling Cain this TRUTH?

--Elijah

But I HAVE kept the Sabbath command!

I entered into the Rest established from the foundation of the world, Jesus Christ.

The evidence of my love for the Father is my love for others, not a mere day for not cutting the grass or washing the car. Belief in Christ is the appointed Sabbath Rest, and obedience to 'love your neighbor as yourself' is what that Sabbath Rest looks like in a person's life. The literal 7th day was but a shadow of that reality.

So no more false accusations. I've kept the Sabbath Day the Jews don't know anything about. The one that actually means something. The one that counts.
 
This 'ministry' of the law--the ministry of death--was added at Mt. Sinai. And was taken away when Christ appeared.

Very close.

However, the word says the law was added, not the ministry.

But, for now that is as far as you are willing to go.

By the way, The ten commandments were not the ministry of death. That is an expression from a legal argument that comes from the Greek mindset. This is similar to a Hebrew idiom that says "no one knows the day or hour, not even the angels, but my father only"...

The expression does not mean Jesus doesn't know when He's coming, rather it is a reference to the feast of trumpets, which started at the sighting of the new moon, that could happen on the 29th day or the 30th day, hence the phrase no one knows the day or the hour.

It is also used of the wedding day, as The father was in charge of the preparations and it would be up to him to signal the start of the wedding. This was readily understood in Jesus day by the Hebrew mind.

Likewise this expression "ministry of death" was a legal maneuver used to agree with an opponent and use their words to make a greater point.

7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 2 Corinthians 3:7-8

The 10 commandments are not the ministry of death.

Disobeying God is what is sin, and sin is what brings death.

...anything that is not from faith is sin.

I'm sure Abraham learned the "ten commandments" directly from God, as well as much more.

They were certainly not a ministry of death to him.

Trying to keep the ten commandments APART FROM relationship with God, BECOMES a yoke of bondage and an ministry of death.

Remember in the Garden, the sin that spread to all mankind was disobeying what the Lord said to Adam, which was learning what was good and evil from a source other than God.

That was sin.

That is sin.

Anything that is not from faith is sin.

We haven't gotten to the other aspects of what is considered sin.

These are typified by the contents with the Ark.

...the golden pot that had the manna,

...Aaron's rod that budded,

...the tablets of the covenant;

These represent the three fold fulness of sin.

The were types of Christ, as well as the Ark itself that "contained" the sin.


More on this later.


JLB
 
So you ones that are posting are Led of the Holy Spirit or by MAN???

--Elijah
I noticed it doesn't sit well with people when you tell them you walk by the Spirit when asked if you do.

They turn it on you and start talking about perfection, not sinning, etc. (yada, yada, yada...).

So, now my answer to them is 'yes, whenever I say or do something right I am led by the Spirit."

Surely you believe the Exod. 20:16 verse?? If so? what do you do with Acts 5:32 by avoiding 7TH Day Sabbath Commandment, with NO conviction to LOVE THE GODHEAD & their 'FIRST' GREAT Commandment???? Matt. 22:35-38

But as you say.. The Holy Spirit has not convicted you! That makes me question Cain in Gen. 4:6-7 for bringing fruit for his offering??
Was it not the Lord in person telling Cain this TRUTH?

--Elijah

But I HAVE kept the Sabbath command!

I entered into the Rest established from the foundation of the world, Jesus Christ.

The evidence of my love for the Father is my love for others, not a mere day for not cutting the grass or washing the car. Belief in Christ is the appointed Sabbath Rest, and obedience to 'love your neighbor as yourself' is what that Sabbath Rest looks like in a person's life. The literal 7th day was but a shadow of that reality.

So no more false accusations. I've kept the Sabbath Day the Jews don't know anything about. The one that actually means something. The one that counts.

SHOW ME WHERE YOU ARE [OBEDIENT] IN KEEPING THE LORDS REQUIRED DAY FROM THE BOOK OF HEB.! (or anywhere??) What you are doing at present is violating ALL the Commandments in James 2:8-12! See James 2:10 for just 'ONE ' of the ten COMMANDMENTS that has all broken! + you are 's'pirit Led is your claim? See Acts 5:32 & Rev. 12:17 for who are HOLY SPIRIT LED!

And dear fellow, there only two great commandments, FIRST and for most is to [LOVE GOD] who created us. Matt. 22
[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[38] This is the first and great commandment.

And surely you do know that this MORAL makeup is ETERNALL as The Godhead is ETERNAL! Heb. 13:20 LONG LONG LONG before man was created! He was just in the Lords before knowledge! Rom. 4:17 last part of the verse.

--Elijah
 
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So no more false accusations. I've kept the Sabbath Day the Jews don't know anything about. The one that actually means something. The one that counts.

SHOW ME WHERE YOU ARE [OBEDIENT] IN KEEPING THE LORDS REQUIRED DAY FROM THE BOOK OF HEB.! (or anywhere??)
I believe. Therefore, I have entered that rest:

"...we who have believed enter that rest..." (Hebrews 4:3 NASB)


When I 'love my neighbor as myself' I fulfill the law...ALL of the law:

"...he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. 9 For this, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” (Romans 13:8-9 NASB)

NO required debt of law remains outstanding when I love my neighbor as myself.

The sad part about some law keepers is they think they have pleased God and did what is the most important thing to do just because they didn't cut the grass on the 7th day. Even a Christ rejecting Jew can do that. It proves NOTHING. But if you love your neighbor as yourself (for all that means Biblically) you are showing that you are in covenant with God, and fulfilling the WHOLE law, not just the 4th Commandment.
 
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This 'ministry' of the law--the ministry of death--was added at Mt. Sinai. And was taken away when Christ appeared.

Very close.

However, the word says the law was added, not the ministry.
As I shared, Paul plainly tells us what the task, the mission, the 'ministry' of the law was and why that 'ministry' was sent into the world.

And he plainly teaches us, that ministry--the ministerial task of making us accountable to God, magnifying our sin and making it apparent and indisputable, and being witness to our sin guilt--is taken away in Christ. That is what it means for the law to be added, and the law to be taken away.

The requirements of the law are NOT what was taken away. They are fulfilled, not abolished, by our faith in Christ. Some are fulfilled figuratively (aka 'spiritually'). Some are fulfilled quite literally by us. But all are fulfilled when we believe, and 'love our neighbor as ourself'.

Why does the church teach the flock that the law was abolished???????

What got 'abolished' was the condemnation of the law. That got nailed to the cross with Christ and our old husband 'sin nature'. The law can no longer condemn the person who has had their sin guilt removed in Christ and who walks according to the Spirit, upholding the requirements of the law.
 
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That is what it means for the law to be added, and the law to be taken away.

What the law being added means is:

If the road that led you to this conclusion is the same road that brought your "two cents", the what purpose does the road serve. It was added, so that The road could bring you to me and the oxygen bottle I'm holding. The oxygen bottle that was meant to give you life, will now be used to put you out of your misery. Both of which are grace.


JLB
 
So no more false accusations. I've kept the Sabbath Day the Jews don't know anything about. The one that actually means something. The one that counts.

SHOW ME WHERE YOU ARE [OBEDIENT] IN KEEPING THE LORDS REQUIRED DAY FROM THE BOOK OF HEB.! (or anywhere??)
I believe. Therefore, I have entered that rest:

"...we who have believed enter that rest..." (Hebrews 4:3 NASB)


When I 'love my neighbor as myself' I fulfill the law...ALL of the law:

"...he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. 9 For this, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” (Romans 13:8-9 NASB)

NO required debt of law remains outstanding when I love my neighbor as myself.

The sad part about some law keepers is they think they have pleased God and did what is the most important thing to do just because they didn't cut the grass on the 7th day. Even a Christ rejecting Jew can do that. It proves NOTHING. But if you love your neighbor as yourself (for all that means Biblically) you are showing that you are in covenant with God, and fulfilling the WHOLE law, not just the 4th Commandment.

I can see that there is no hope for you at present! (and just forget other 7th Day professed Sabbath keepers, I am one that LOVES the Lord)
All of Old Israel were Sabbath keepers. And there house was what! Matt. 23:38

The TEMPTING attorney asked the Lord which was the GREATEST COMMANDMENT of the two laws... and what was Christ reply to him? It seems that you & he have a common bond? (except he was a professed Sabbath keeper!)

Matt. 22
[36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[38] This is the first and great commandment.

And what do you do???

--Elijah
 
So no more false accusations. I've kept the Sabbath Day the Jews don't know anything about. The one that actually means something. The one that counts.

SHOW ME WHERE YOU ARE [OBEDIENT] IN KEEPING THE LORDS REQUIRED DAY FROM THE BOOK OF HEB.! (or anywhere??)
I believe. Therefore, I have entered that rest:

"...we who have believed enter that rest..." (Hebrews 4:3 NASB)


When I 'love my neighbor as myself' I fulfill the law...ALL of the law:

"...he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. 9 For this, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” (Romans 13:8-9 NASB)

NO required debt of law remains outstanding when I love my neighbor as myself.

The sad part about some law keepers is they think they have pleased God and did what is the most important thing to do just because they didn't cut the grass on the 7th day. Even a Christ rejecting Jew can do that. It proves NOTHING. But if you love your neighbor as yourself (for all that means Biblically) you are showing that you are in covenant with God, and fulfilling the WHOLE law, not just the 4th Commandment.

I can see that there is no hope for you at present! (and just forget other 7th Day professed Sabbath keepers, I am one that LOVES the Lord)
All of Old Israel were Sabbath keepers. And there house was what! Matt. 23:38

The TEMPTING attorney asked the Lord which was the GREATEST COMMANDMENT of the two laws... and what was Christ reply to him? It seems that you & he have a common bond? (except he was a professed Sabbath keeper!)

Matt. 22
[36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[38] This is the first and great commandment.

And what do you do???

--Elijah

Call it.


JLB
 
I believe. Therefore, I have entered that rest:

"...we who have believed enter that rest..." (Hebrews 4:3 NASB)


When I 'love my neighbor as myself' I fulfill the law...ALL of the law:

"...he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. 9 For this, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,†and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.†(Romans 13:8-9 NASB)

NO required debt of law remains outstanding when I love my neighbor as myself.

The sad part about some law keepers is they think they have pleased God and did what is the most important thing to do just because they didn't cut the grass on the 7th day. Even a Christ rejecting Jew can do that. It proves NOTHING. But if you love your neighbor as yourself (for all that means Biblically) you are showing that you are in covenant with God, and fulfilling the WHOLE law, not just the 4th Commandment.

I can see that there is no hope for you at present! (and just forget other 7th Day professed Sabbath keepers, I am one that LOVES the Lord)
All of Old Israel were Sabbath keepers. And there house was what! Matt. 23:38

The TEMPTING attorney asked the Lord which was the GREATEST COMMANDMENT of the two laws... and what was Christ reply to him? It seems that you & he have a common bond? (except he was a professed Sabbath keeper!)

Matt. 22
[36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[38] This is the first and great commandment.

And what do you do???

--Elijah

Call it.


JLB

:toofunny

I can't think of a better time to do that. My patient striving with Elijah has come to an end.

(He never did respond to my inquiry as to whether or not he believes that a person is justified by keeping Sabbath. No more benefit of the doubt for him.)
 
Surely you believe the Exod. 20:16 verse?? If so? what do you do with Acts 5:32 by avoiding 7TH Day Sabbath Commandment, with NO conviction to LOVE THE GODHEAD & their 'FIRST' GREAT Commandment???? Matt. 22:35-38


Elijah, I asked you this about 20 threads ago on this subject and you never answered me.
Just what is it we need to do to keep the Sabbath?
What is it that you do to keep the Sabbath?
Would you please give a straight answer so that we can all understand.
Thank you.
 
I believe. Therefore, I have entered that rest:

"...we who have believed enter that rest..." (Hebrews 4:3 NASB)


When I 'love my neighbor as myself' I fulfill the law...ALL of the law:

"...he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. 9 For this, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,†and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.†(Romans 13:8-9 NASB)

NO required debt of law remains outstanding when I love my neighbor as myself.

The sad part about some law keepers is they think they have pleased God and did what is the most important thing to do just because they didn't cut the grass on the 7th day. Even a Christ rejecting Jew can do that. It proves NOTHING. But if you love your neighbor as yourself (for all that means Biblically) you are showing that you are in covenant with God, and fulfilling the WHOLE law, not just the 4th Commandment.

I can see that there is no hope for you at present! (and just forget other 7th Day professed Sabbath keepers, I am one that LOVES the Lord)
All of Old Israel were Sabbath keepers. And there house was what! Matt. 23:38

The TEMPTING attorney asked the Lord which was the GREATEST COMMANDMENT of the two laws... and what was Christ reply to him? It seems that you & he have a common bond? (except he was a professed Sabbath keeper!)

Matt. 22
[36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[38] This is the first and great commandment.

And what do you do???

--Elijah

Call it.


JLB

:toofunny

I can't think of a better time to do that. My patient striving with Elijah has come to an end.

(He never did respond to my inquiry as to whether or not he believes that a person is justified by keeping Sabbath. No more benefit of the doubt for him.)

You, by far have a superior revelation of that whole concept of external "rule keeping", whether law keepers or Churchianity folk.

I believe I have made that clear.

It doesn't seem he is ever going to "get it".

Might as well flip the darn quarter and put him out of his misery.


JLB
 
Surely you believe the Exod. 20:16 verse?? If so? what do you do with Acts 5:32 by avoiding 7TH Day Sabbath Commandment, with NO conviction to LOVE THE GODHEAD & their 'FIRST' GREAT Commandment???? Matt. 22:35-38


Elijah, I asked you this about 20 threads ago on this subject and you never answered me.
Just what is it we need to do to keep the Sabbath?
What is it that you do to keep the Sabbath?
Would you please give a straight answer so that we can all understand.
Thank you.

I did not answer you??
Well perhaps it was missed by me? Let me just give an old post.

He does not leave out what He has given us who LOVE him to do!! Do we LOVE CHRIST accurately, nothing held back? This is the last question!

We can read Isa. 58...
[10] And if thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noonday:
[11] And the LORD shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.

[12] And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.

[13] If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

[14] Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

And this will be our LOVING duties in our heavenly home. Still we will be doing the work of building our country home. (read Isa. 65:18-26) And on His 7th Day Sabbath we will travel to Jerusalem to Worship our Lord! (IN NEW Jerusalem. Isa. 66:22-23! ...and there is the sunset to MARK our Days!)

OK: Back to Isa. 58 with INSTRUCTIONS!
!x-usc:cid:19F7723D675146FAADECA4721C5B9FAF@NBHammondPC

[12] And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.

We see in Daniel 7:25 why this is so. Dan. says...
[25] And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

So we see what the Lord requires. The Remnant to do this duty from an honest heart filled with love! And this is the work that is to be seen...
[13] If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

Christ was was said to be a breaker of His Eternal law when He and His disciples went through a corn field and had gotten enough food for that 7th Sabbath Day. And Isa. 58? (Has Isaiah saying, that is ok! as a True Prophet of God.. 1 Cor. 14:32) See **Lev. 19:10 !

And next...
‘from doing thine own pleasure’. OK. Here we find all things that are not Godly things to do are to be [put] aside! Inclusive? ball games and the like, news papers reading. Anything that can be done on the other six days are to be put aside.
And the ox in the ditch? Surely is in need of help!
Along with the sick & afflicted.

And surely all who love the Master will be known then!

--Elijah

 
Call it.


JLB

:toofunny

I can't think of a better time to do that. My patient striving with Elijah has come to an end.

(He never did respond to my inquiry as to whether or not he believes that a person is justified by keeping Sabbath. No more benefit of the doubt for him.)

You, by far have a superior revelation of that whole concept of external "rule keeping", whether law keepers or Churchianity folk.

I believe I have made that clear.

It doesn't seem he is ever going to "get it".

Might as well flip the darn quarter and put him out of his misery.


JLB

Does your brain comprehend anything?? (as sincere question)
I have told you over & over again why I keep the Lords 7th Day Sabbath! One more time... IT IS BECAUSE I LOVE HIM!
Surely you must of read this above.... Matt. 22
[35] Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,

[36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[38] This is the first and great commandment.

--Elijah
 
That is what it means for the law to be added, and the law to be taken away.

What the law being added means is:

If the road that led you to this conclusion is the same road that brought your "two cents", the what purpose does the road serve. It was added, so that The road could bring you to me and the oxygen bottle I'm holding. The oxygen bottle that was meant to give you life, will now be used to put you out of your misery. Both of which are grace.


JLB
The road is the law. Which is the path to death...death in Christ. Which is really life. (?)
 
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