The Law

[Webb]

Hi Elijah674

I believe every scripture you cited above yet fail to grasp their relation to this thread regarding the law.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Since when?


I'm sure that would make the homosexuals happy,right?

And grudge holders, the hateful, the greedy, and liars...

 

[Jethro Bodine]

31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law." (Romans 3:31 NIV1984)

We have been set free from relating to God through the way of the law, but not from the (remaining) requirements of the law.

 

[Webb]

Will you provide an example of one of "the (remaining) requirements of the law"? What do you mean?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The 'professed ones' on earth when Christ comes again are in for a real awakening, huh!

Matt. 7
[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
[22] [[Many will say to me]] in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
(and then there are these ones here all over the place, who say 'l'ord I do not need to do any Obedient Work, just believe something!!)

[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
[24] Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and [[doeth them,]] I will liken him unto a wise man, which [[built his house]] upon a rock: ..' (more WORK, huh!)

We know from the whole counsel of scripture that the will of God no longer includes every jot and tittle of the law of Moses. Some things we simply do not have to literally fulfill because Christ satisfied the requirements of those things one time for all God's people with the sacrifice of himself.

"...until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." (Matthew 5:18 NIV1984)

Christ is the fulfillment that had to happen before so much as a stroke of a pen could 'disappear' (figuratively speaking) from the law.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Will you provide an example of one of "the (remaining) requirements of the law"? What do you mean?

I know you don't disagree with this:

"8 Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. 9 The commandments, “Do not commit adultery,” “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” “Do not covet,” and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law." (Romans 13:8-10 NIV1984)

("Love your neighbor as yourself." Leviticus 19:18 NIV1984)

You're probably just looking at this from a different (but still legitimate) view than I. We are no longer under the way of the law as a means of relating to God. We now relate to God through faith in Christ...which in turn upholds the (remaining) debt of law we still owe.

"...we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code." (Romans 7:6 NIV1984)

 

[JJsaint]

Will you provide an example of one of "the (remaining) requirements of the law"? What do you mean?

Matthew 5:17:Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Jesus did not destroy the law,or take it away.


For example on the law...

As long as Homosexuality is wrong among Christianity,this obviously is still in place..

Leviticus 18:22:Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

The only part of the law that is gone is the wrath/Condemning,for example...

Leviticus 20:13:If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Matthew 5:17:Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Jesus did not destroy the law,or take it away.

He made some parts of the law obsolete...not destroyed, not removed from the law, simply no longer needed to be done by God's people. Jesus' sacrifice fulfilled those obligations one time for all people, forever.

 

[JJsaint]

He made some parts of the law obsolete...not destroyed, not removed from the law, simply no longer needed to be done by God's people. Jesus' sacrifice fulfilled those obligations one time for all people, forever.

The parts that dealt with with wrath and condemnation.

Romans 5:9:Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

 

[Webb]

Jethro--To a large extent we agree.

JJSaint--My offer remains open

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The parts that dealt with with wrath and condemnation.

Romans 5:9:Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Not just that. It is not required to literally keep various laws of the first covenant concerning temple, priesthood, and sacrifice now that the new and better way of faith in Christ has made them obsolete and no longer needed.

You can see the difference. You are speaking of escaping the wrath and condemnation of law through the justification of faith. I'm talking about escaping the wrath and condemnation of various laws, not because of justification, but because we can not be condemned for not keeping laws that no longer have to be literally kept because of what Christ did to fulfill those requirements completely and forever for us.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Jethro--To a large extent we agree.

I thought we probably did.

 

[Webb]

Some things of the old covenant were carried over into the new. For example, 9 of the 10 commandments are in the new and some even enlarged upon so that the Christian has more to answer for than did the old Jew.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

...the old Jew.

You mean like this?
http://imgs.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2009/02/12/ns-artpick19_1_d_0499786288.jpg

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Since those laws are now obsolete and we are just to love our neighbor, who decides how and what loving our neighbor is?

You'll find your best guidance into how to love your neighbor in lengthy passages of inspired instruction in the New Testament. It's clear that their inspiration comes from the Law and the prophets (OT). Their gifts have made the way we are to love others more easily seen and understood for the rest of us.

Seems to me that the first four tell us how to love God and the last six tell us how to love our neighbor.

Again, the writers of the New Testament through the spiritual insights they received have taught us that we love God by loving others. That's why the second greatest command is like the first. They are in fact inseparable. You can't love God without loving your neighbor. You can't love your neighbor without loving God.

When we have no other gods before God, and rest from the burden of sin through faith in Christ the result is...love for others. I suggest to you that all 10 Commandments are satisfied when we love our neighbor as ourself and do them no harm through our selfish, sinful propensities.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I think only the wrath/condemning part of the law is finished,but not all of the law as the wrath/condemning part of the law was against us.

I disagree. The effort to make any law a means through which a person can be justified inevitably makes that law against us, not for us...because nobody can keep a law of justification. That is the point of Paul's discourse about the law. Only the law that you can keep can be for you, no matter how well intentioned and holy and good that law is. If you don't keep a law of justification that law becomes death to you, not life. That's why all perish under a law of justification.

Since the wrath/Condeming part of the law was against....that was done away with as been nailed to the cross.

Colossians 2:14:Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross...

As I'm pointing out, the entire law is against the man who seeks to be justified through obedience to that law, any law...because no one can keep the law.

What Paul is talking about here in Colossians 2 is specifically the removal of judgment concerning worship laws, like the Sabbath regulation and the rest of the Festival cycle. Those laws are no longer required to be satisfied for the purpose of remaining in covenant with God. Faith in Christ has replaced those as the means through which we approach God and are acceptable to him. This being true, Paul says we are not to let anyone judge us in regard to the keeping of the rules (Mosaic or rabbinic) connected with that cycle of first (old) covenant worship.

Anyone can keep them if they want (except to be justified by them), but we don't have too anymore. We are not condemned anymore for not doing them, for faith in Christ has brought us perfectly and forever into God's approval and acceptance making things like Sabbaths and festivals obsolete and no longer needed for avoiding judgment and continuing in covenant with God.

 

[Webb]

The church in the NT did not observe the sabbath ( 4th ) commandment.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The church in the NT did not observe the sabbath ( 4th ) commandment.

My understanding is, some did, some did not.

 

[Webb]

I can't find where they were there for worship.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I can't find where they were there for worship.

We only have history itself to help us know who did and who didn't worship on the Sabbath.

It wasn't until the gentiles split away from the Jewish believers that things went crazy. It didn't take long at all for the gentile church to come to the erroneous conclusion that any and all obedience to first covenant worship laws was categorically without exception anathema. Only keeping the worship laws for purposes of justification is damnable and not permissible. They were not altogether, and for all reasons, outlawed with the coming of Christ.