The Lord Jesus Christ IS God's ELECT...

[JamesG]

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Vic C

“According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world†(Ephesians 1:4).

Jesus is the predestined one and we are elect in him. The one new man is in him. The new creation is in him. Justification is in him. Everything is in Jesus Christ. We have and are nothing in and of ourselves. Jesus Christ is the all and in all. Simple search all you want. The simple fact is that apart from Jesus Christ there is no elect.

JamesG

 

[Eventide]

Eventide, Welcome to the forum!

Thank you !

In the end times, is Jesus going to be on the earth in order that Satan may try to lead Him astray? One would think that Satan would know better than to try that sort of thing...

Matthew 24:24
For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. (ESV)
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I think you're trying to make a point that others are the elect in addition to Christ... if so, imo that is not accurate.. all believers are the elect in HIM, not in themselves. God didn't choose a single man in Adam, in fact, he condemns all in Adam. He chooses every man in CHRIST, and that is why they are the elect of God, because they are IN HIM, and Christ is the elect of God.

You're not the elect of God, nor am I, in fact, we are told plainly that if we shall seek to save our life that we shall lose it. We are crucified with Christ, nevertheless we live, yet not we, but Christ lives in us.

There are none good but one, and that is God.

Do you believe that you're the elect of God, regardless of the scriptural fact that there are none good but Him, and that we are crucified with Christ ? In Col 3 Paul writes that we are DEAD and that our life is hid in Christ with God.

You present the craziest attempt I’ve yet heard to explain away the Biblical use of the term “electâ€. It simply means chosen. You should take it for what it means; God has chosen His people. He always has. God didn't "choose" Jesus, did He? Rather, Jesus does the choosing. Here, Jesus says so:

Matthew 11:27
All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him. (ESV)
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2 John 1:1
The elder to the elect lady and her children, whom I love in truth, and not only I, but also all who know the truth (ESV)

At the time of the writing of this verse, Jesus had apparently become a mother! I think it’s great to think outside the box and to think for ourselves about scripture, but why look for a different meaning of the word â€elect†when it’s meaning is clear?
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I think people are just uncomfortable with sovereign election, and will readily contort scripture to avoid its truth. As it is written:

2 Timothy 4: 3-4
3For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, 4and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. (ESV)

Forgive my tone if I’ve misunderstood you.

Again, welcome to the forum.

-HisSheep

What I think is crazy is Christians teaching others that they are the elect of God. Some will even teach that they are the elect of God unconditionally. The scriptures are perfectly clear in teaching that Jesus Christ is the elect of God (Matt 12), and that all men are elected in HIM.

I've posted Gal 2:20 at least three times now and it has been ignored. I think it's because it lays it on the line for all to see, that we are dead and crucified with Christ, and HE lives in us. We are members of HIS body.

What's your understanding of Gal 2:20? Do you believe that both you and Christ are living together, or is it Christ in you?

 

[Eventide]

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Eventide

I agree that Jesus Christ is the one who is elect and we are elect because we are in Christ.

Is this your personal understanding or do you belong to a Church that agrees with this understanding?

JamesG

This is my personal understanding of the scriptures, and it comes after many conversations with people telling me and trying to teach me that they are the elect of God. It's a little confusing to some because we are the elect of God IN CHRIST, not in Adam, but in Christ.

It's a scriptural fact that all men are condemned in Adam and justified freely in Christ.

It's also a scriptural fact that the Lord Jesus Christ is God's elect, His Chosen, in Whom He is well pleased.

 

[JamesG]

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Eventide

The Catholics believe that the Bible can only be understood through the teachings of the Catholic Church. To them, one doesn’t even have to read the Bible to know the reality of the Reality that is in Christ. One merely has to know the teachings of the Catholic Church. But I began to be in Christ through the inner sense, that is the Spirit of God, that revealed that the Bible is the only written document available today that has its source in God alone and is the true teaching of the Apostles. And the inner sense revealed that the Bible can only be understood through the inner sense or the Spirit of God. So for many years I have followed what the Spirit is saying to the ekklesia.

It is an unfortunate fact that those who read the Bible for themselves, as the Protestants encourage verbally though do not practice in a practical sense, and who also see what the Bible says through the Spirit of God, are generally in the minority or alone in the great corporate expression called Christianity that claims to be the expression of the Reality that is in Jesus Christ. And what we are speaking of on this thread is only one aspect of the teaching of the Apostles.

Sometimes I wish I had been born a Catholic. It is so much easier. If you know anything about the two UTube famous Catholic scientists, Kenneth Miller and George Coyne, one can believe in both the human science that so obviously leads to Atheism and the Catholic religion at the same time. But instead I was born an Atheist. I praise the Lord that my first encounter with Christianity was a Baptist type denomination of Protestantism even though they turned out to be very Catholic in a practical sense. That is, they also believed in common with the Catholics and most Protestant denominations that one must believe the teachings of the denomination in order to believe the Reality that is in Jesus Christ. I did not find this out until I was already committed to God, to Jesus Christ, and to the Spirit of God through whom the true teaching comes. Otherwise I would still be an Atheist.

And one of the teachings of that Baptist type denomination was that it is we, rather than Christ, who are the elect of God. Even though the Bible is so clear, at least through the understanding given through the Spirit, that it is Jesus who is the one chosen and we are only elect in the chosen one, Jesus Christ.

Tell me, do you also see that we are Justified through the faith of Jesus Christ because we are in Christ, and not through our own faith that only puts us into the proper position to be Justified, that is, in Christ?

JamesG

 

[Joe67]

Jesus Christ, our Lord, is the head of the body.

The eternal Father has given Jesus a family, to be members of his body, the priesthood according to the principles of Melchisedec.

The election is in the priesthood of Jesus. No one can choose to be a member of the priesthood of Jesus.

Jesus did not choose to be a priest. It is the foreknowledge of the Father. The eternal Father chose the members of Jesus' priesthood before the world began.

Joe

 

[Eventide]

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Eventide

The Catholics believe that the Bible can only be understood through the teachings of the Catholic Church.

I often wondered why anyone would believe that...

Anyone can come and drink the water of life freely, and understand the simple message of the bible, which is that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures.

 

[Eventide]

The eternal Father chose the members of Jesus' priesthood before the world began.

If you're refering to Eph 1 here, then it's also important to remember Eph 2, which teaches us that prior to being in Christ, we were dead and lost in trespasses and in sins.

A Christian was not in Christ before the world began. Eph 1 tells us when we were placed into the body of Christ, and it was after trusting in Christ, after hearing the gospel, and after believing it.

 

[Eventide]

Man, a simple word search of the word elect shows us the err of this idea that Jesus is the elect. That concept was never intended in scripture.

The holy scriptures make it perfectly clear that our Lord Jesus Christ is God's elect.

Matthew 12:18

Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

which is a ref from Isaiah 42...

Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Add to this knowledge that there are none good but one, and that is God... and that if we shall seek to save our life, that we shall lose it. We are to take up our cross and follow Christ. We are to put off the old man who is corrupt according to deceitful lusts, and put on the new man which is Christ in us. We are crucified with Christ, we are dead and our life is hid with God in Christ.

In light of all that the scriptures tell us, it's a wonder why anyone would think that they are the elect.

The Lord Jesus Christ is God's elect, and all are elected in Him. All in Adam are under condenmation and all can be justified freely in Him.

To the eternal praise and glory of God's only begotten and beloved Son, our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

 

[savedbygrace57]

eventide:

Because Christ is God's elect

Thats how and why others are the elect, for they were chosen in Him before the world began. Christ is not the elect of God as a private person, but as the head of a body with members.

 

[Anothen]

Quote XTruth : " All men are called to become God's elect or chosen ones and can be if they will choose God"

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Hi X

I read your post from which this was taken. For the most part I agree with what you said. However, when you made this comment, it detracted from what you previously said.

"If they will choose God " ? ?

"All men " ? ?

No, not all men are called to become God's elect, or chosen ones !

Many are called, but few are chosen < So the scriptures say !

Here is another scripture which tells us that we did not choose God, but he chose us >

II Thess. 2:13 - "God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation of the Spirit and belief of the truth"

This belief in II Thess. 2:13 is not our belief. First, this word should have been translated "faith" and not belief. Its the greek word "pistis". I believe this is the only verse that "pistis" was translated - "belief" instead of "faith", of which it is translated - "faith" everywhere else. There are two exception where this greek word "pistis" was translated - "assurance" and ""fidelity". 239 times it was translated - "faith".

The reason I bring this up, is because our faith is not good enough. Being chosen from the beginning, shows that our faith had nothing to do with it.

We as Christians are given the faith of Christ - Galatians 3:22 - "But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe" < Here, this word "believe" is the greek word - "pisteuo" and this greek word means ---- To ahere to, or rely on. So this verse is stating that we are to rely upon the faith of Jesus Christ , not our faith.

Also, in Romans 5:5 thru verse 8, that "while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" . I would encourage reading the full context.

We are also one of the two folds of sheep. These sheep were given to Jesus by his Father. This again shows predestination, or a being chosen.

Bless - MM

"belief" or "faith" both nouns - the Greek word is pistei

2 Thessalonians 2:13 ἡμεῖς δὲ ὀφείλομεν εὐχαριστεῖν τῷ θεῷ πάντοτε περὶ ὑμῶν, ἀδελφοὶ ἠγαπημένοι ὑπὸ κυρίου, ὅτι εἵλατο ὑμᾶς ὁ θεὸς ἀπ’ ἀρχης / ἀπαρχὴν εἰς σωτηρίαν ἐν ἁγιασμῷ πνεύματος καὶ >>>> πίστει<<<< ἀληθείας,

But we are bound to always give thanks to God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because God chose you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and >>>> belief<<<< in the truth;
Noun: Dative Singular Feminine Source: "Biblos.com"

be·lief   /bɪˈlif/ Show Spelled[bih-leef] Show IPA
–noun
1. something believed; an opinion or conviction: a belief that the earth is flat.
2. confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof: a statement unworthy of belief.
3. confidence; faith; trust: a child's belief in his parents.
4. a religious tenet or tenets; religious creed or faith: the Christian belief. Source "Dictionary dot com"

 

[Anothen]

Yup. Nothing in Ephesians contradicts what he posted. Nothing in Ephesians suggests to me that Jesus is the elect. If anything, it tells me that we are His elect. Jesus makes that clear:

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


Man, a simple word search of the word elect shows us the err of this idea that Jesus is the elect. That concept was never intended in scripture.

Jesus is elect and believers are elect in Him, I see both as true. Jesus was chosen to do what He did and we are chosen in Him based upon His Grace and our Faith, Luke 7:50, Romans 10. Without grace our faith is worthless, I Cor. 15:14.

 

[Anothen]

If you're refering to Eph 1 here, then it's also important to remember Eph 2, which teaches us that prior to being in Christ, we were dead and lost in trespasses and in sins.

A Christian was not in Christ before the world began. Eph 1 tells us when we were placed into the body of Christ, and it was after trusting in Christ, after hearing the gospel, and after believing it.

In the mind of God, prior to creation, God knew all who would be in Christ, "elect in Christ". This is true for Calvinist and Arminians, the difference is in the decree of God "foreknowledge of one coming to Christ or prior selection with no regard to any process in the order of salvation"

 

[savedbygrace57]

anoth:

In the mind of God, prior to creation, God knew all who would be in Christ,

Of course He did, for they were in Christ when God beget Him before the foundation of the World.

They were in Him, Just as They were in Adam when Adam was first created. Thats why Jesus is also called Adam 1 cor 15:

45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

 

[savedbygrace57]

eventide:

WE are NOT the elect of God, the Lord Jesus Christ is the elect of God

Thats the proof that others are elect of God, because Jesus Christ is the Head of His Body, unless you believe God elected a bodiless Jesus Christ ! Is that what you believe ?

 

[Eventide]

In the mind of God, prior to creation, God knew all who would be in Christ, "elect in Christ". This is true for Calvinist and Arminians, the difference is in the decree of God "foreknowledge of one coming to Christ or prior selection with no regard to any process in the order of salvation"

The scriptures are clear that we were NOT in Christ from before the foundation of the world, but rather AFTER we trusted in Christ, after hearing the gospel, and after we believed. Read Eph 2 to see what we were prior to being in elected IN HIM.

 

[Eventide]

eventide:



Thats the proof that others are elect of God, because Jesus Christ is the Head of His Body, unless you believe God elected a bodiless Jesus Christ ! Is that what you believe ?

The scriptures prove conclusively that the Lord Jesus Christ is the elect, and that God elects IN CHRIST.

All in Adam are under the same condemnation.. flesh gives birth to the flesh (Adam) and Spirit (Christ, the Last Adam) gives birth to the Spirit.

 

[Alabaster]

One doesn't even receive the revelation that one is of the elect until one is in Christ in the first place.

 

[Eventide]

One doesn't even receive the revelation that one is of the elect until one is in Christ in the first place.

I would suggest that this wasn't revealed at all, but rather is the result of countless people being taught that THEY are the elect.

The scriptures are perfectly clear in teaching us that the Lord Jesus Christ is the elect of God, the Chosen One in whom He delights. The scriptures are also very clear in teaching us that all in Adam (flesh) are under the same condemnation, that there are none righteous, and that if we shall seek to save our life that we shall lose it.

We're not the elect, CHRIST is.. and it's too bad that so many young Christians are being taught that they are the elect of God.

 

[Alabaster]

I would suggest that this wasn't revealed at all, but rather is the result of countless people being taught that THEY are the elect.

The scriptures are perfectly clear in teaching us that the Lord Jesus Christ is the elect of God, the Chosen One in whom He delights. The scriptures are also very clear in teaching us that all in Adam (flesh) are under the same condemnation, that there are none righteous, and that if we shall seek to save our life that we shall lose it.

We're not the elect, CHRIST is.. and it's too bad that so many young Christians are being taught that they are the elect of God.

Jesus is the Elect of God. So are His people Israel. So are His people in Christ. He also calls His angels by the term, 'elect'.

Anyone who is in Christ is of the elect of God.

 

[Eventide]

Jesus is the Elect of God. So are His people Israel. So are His people in Christ. He also calls His angels by the term, 'elect'.

Anyone who is in Christ is of the elect of God.

Of course they are the elect, because they are IN CHRIST, the one who IS the elect. Christians are members of HIS BODY.

God doesn't choose us, He chooses us IN CHRIST. Even after we are saved it's not our old life which is justified, but rather the life of CHRIST in us... that's why there is no condemnation to those who are IN CHRIST JESUS, who walk NOT after the flesh (Adam), but after the Spirit.

Israel is God's elect or chosen NATION through whom the Messiah would come..