The mess that OSAS theology made

[joyinhim]

I wonder why OSAS theology built up

All I know is that many church goers who believe this theology are luke warm Christians. They don't care about their walk with the Lord: they believe they are saved no matter what they do or don't do.

My separated husband and his family have been forever church goers without much of fruit of christianity.

My husband and his family are not a unique example. I am sure most of you know exactly what I am talking about.

It's mind boggling to me that the giving of false sense of security doesn't bother OSAS supporters.

If what we say mislead fellow believer, we have to stop.

 

[Merry Menagerie]

You don't seem to understand the OSAS theology.

 

[joyinhim]

You don't seem to understand the OSAS theology.

All I know is that they are misleading people and made disaster with their theology. Shame on them!

 

[Merry Menagerie]

How can you say that when you don't understand the theology?

I'm one such believer and I don't believe anything that you have written because you have the OSAS position all wrong. I think you better brush up on it ;)

 

[joyinhim]

How can you say that when you don't understand the theology?

I'm one such believer and I don't believe anything that you have written because you have the OSAS position all wrong. I think you better brush up on it ;)

You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be able to see what is going on around you. All you need is to study the Bible and open you eyes.

Are you an OSAS supporter? Is this the lame excuse you come up with?

 

[Merry Menagerie]

You need to undestand the theology in order to be able to make the type of statements you have made.

How would you like it if someone said "I think Christianity made a mess of XYZ because I know people who blah blah blah" then put you under the same banner? And yes it happens right? And it doesn't feel very nice right? Because you know that there are a few bad eggs and it's not right that all judge christianity based on those few bad eggs.

Yes I'm an OSAS supporter - that's how I can say that you have the theology all wrong ;)

 

[joyinhim]

You need to undestand the theology in order to be able to make the type of statements you have made.

How would you like it if someone said "I think Christianity made a mess of XYZ because I know people who blah blah blah" then put you under the same banner? And yes it happens right? And it doesn't feel very nice right? Because you know that there are a few bad eggs and it's not right that all judge christianity based on those few bad eggs.

Yes I'm an OSAS supporter - that's how I can say that you have the theology all wrong ;)

I know very well what kind of mess you made. If you are misleading others with your theology it cannot be biblical. It's so simple. God is not a God of confusion.

 

[Merry Menagerie]

You don't understand the theology - therefore you cannot know what kind of a mess *I* have made if you don't understand it.

I suggest you go and find out what being a new creation means, about what the Holy Spirit does and what the Lord means by "The sheep hear my voice and they follow me"...take a look at how the Lord preserves and chastises his children too. Then see how this can be related to the OSAS theology.

 

[joyinhim]

You don't understand the theology - therefore you cannot know what kind of a mess *I* have made if you don't understand it.

I suggest you go and find out what being a new creation means, about what the Holy Spirit does and what the Lord means by "The sheep hear my voice and they follow me"...take a look at how the Lord preserves and chastises his children too. Then see how this can be related to the OSAS theology.

I have no intention of learning dysfunctional theology. The fruit of your theology is not so good. Actually it's rotten. Why would I want to learn something that misleads and confuses people?

You have been avoiding my point, sister.

 

[Merry Menagerie]

Well in that case I must conclude that you are basing your opinions on ignorance. If you have no desire to understand what you are dismissing then I will have no other choice but to put it down to your opinion only. Unfortunately your opinion doesn't count for much when not backed up with something concrete in which to debate.

Maybe someone else may get somewhere with you

Have a nice day.

 

[joyinhim]

Well in that case I must conclude that you are basing your opinions on ignorance. If you have no desire to understand what you are dismissing then I will have no other choice but to put it down to your opinion only. Unfortunately your opinion doesn't count for much when not backed up with something concrete in which to debate.

Maybe someone else may get somewhere with you

Have a nice day.

We know by our fruit if it's Biblical or not. Your theology is not showing much of fruit rather misleading people into disobedience.

You have been avoiding my main point, dear.

My point is OSAS theology is misleading people into false assurance and disobedience.

 

[joyinhim]

Well in that case I must conclude that you are basing your opinions on ignorance. If you have no desire to understand what you are dismissing then I will have no other choice but to put it down to your opinion only. Unfortunately your opinion doesn't count for much when not backed up with something concrete in which to debate.

Maybe someone else may get somewhere with you

Have a nice day.

We know by our fruit if it's Biblical or not. Your theology is not showing much of fruit rather misleading people into disobedience.

You have been avoiding my main point, dear.

My point is OSAS theology is misleading people into false assurance and disobedience.

 

[Merry Menagerie]

Well in that case I must conclude that you are basing your opinions on ignorance. If you have no desire to understand what you are dismissing then I will have no other choice but to put it down to your opinion only. Unfortunately your opinion doesn't count for much when not backed up with something concrete in which to debate.

Maybe someone else may get somewhere with you

Have a nice day.

We know by our fruit if it's Biblical or not. Your theology is not showing much of fruit rather misleading people into disobedience.

You have been avoiding my main point, dear.

My point is OSAS theology is misleading people into false assurance and disobedience.

A non-christian can say the same about Christianity.

 

[Merry Menagerie]

Your point has no base when one is ignorant of what one is condemning. All religions and theologies have bad eggs INCLUDING YOUR OWN.

Again - I urge you to actually research what it is you disagree with and actually bring some points to the table so we can have a healthy discussion about it. If not then I'm afraid this thread is going to die a quick death.

 

[Imagican]

Well, I guess I'm just an ignorant rube also. I see exactly where this feeling comes from and it's not just a 'few bad examples'. It's the theology its self that is twisted. i find that the people that accept this theology are different in their day to day actions than those that don't.

I have had this debate with a number of believers in it and have yet to find ONE that can use the Bible to back it up. You can certainly pick and choose scripture to make it 'sound' like a good idea, but the truth of the matter is that there are plenty of scripture that state just the opposite. There is not only 'one thing' that a person can follow to receive salvation, one must follow Christ. OSAS people are always trying to say that 'even Christians make mistakes'. Of course they do, but anyone following Christ doesn't plan to continue making these same mistakes. Either Christ lives in you or He doesn't. You can't have it both ways, "today He does", "today He doesn't".

It would certainly be a comforting thought to believe that all I have to do is 'say' I believe in Christ and I'm saved. Unfortunately for those that believe and teach this, they are heading for a rude awakening.

 

[Imagican]

Well, I guess I'm just an ignorant rube also. I see exactly where this feeling comes from and it's not just a 'few bad examples'. It's the theology its self that is twisted. i find that the people that accept this theology are no different in their day to day actions than those that don't.

I have had this debate with a number of believers in it and have yet to find ONE that can use the Bible to back it up. You can certainly pick and choose scripture to make it 'sound' like a good idea, but the truth of the matter is that there are plenty of scripture that state just the opposite. There is not only 'one thing' that a person can follow to receive salvation, one must follow Christ. OSAS people are always trying to say that 'even Christians make mistakes'. Of course they do, but anyone following Christ doesn't plan to continue making these same mistakes. Either Christ lives in you or He doesn't. You can't have it both ways, "today He does", "today He doesn't".

It would certainly be a comforting thought to believe that all I have to do is 'say' I believe in Christ and I'm saved. Unfortunately for those that believe and teach this, they are heading for a rude awakening.

 

[Merry Menagerie]

Really? No scriptual back up huh? Are we on the same boards?

It seems you also don't understand the theology either. Oh well!

Good luck keeping yourself saved - you're gonna need it ;)

 

[Klee shay]

It would certainly be a comforting thought to believe that all I have to do is 'say' I believe in Christ and I'm saved.

"And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive." Matthew 21:22

I can pick a fault in nearly every Christian denomination which contradicts the bible, yet do I throw away that WHICH IS Christ, so that none will believe on him in any way, shape or form contrary to what I believe?

Saying you believe in Christ and you are always saved by Him; is the kind of salavation no-one knows the success of, save Christ himself. Does Christ make it a habit of punishing those who possess faith alone? How ungodly is it to preach that Christ saves and keeps his believers always - that they are not plucked out of his hand?

My suggestion to the original poster is that your comments about OSAS are based on WRATH and not the spirit of God. For if it was, it would speak of that WHICH IS Christ and discern only errors of the scriptural understanding. To simply say you are upset by one (or more) who believe in OSAS and then project that into the understanding of OSAS itself; is to deny Christ.

Do you offer someone their salvation by saying they do not possibly believe in Christ? Or do you start with faith?

 

[joyinhim]

It would certainly be a comforting thought to believe that all I have to do is 'say' I believe in Christ and I'm saved.

"And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive." Matthew 21:22

I can pick a fault in nearly every Christian denomination which contradicts the bible, yet do I throw away that WHICH IS Christ, so that none will believe on him in any way, shape or form contrary to what I believe?

Saying you believe in Christ and you are always saved by Him; is the kind of salavation no-one knows the success of, save Christ himself. Does Christ make it a habit of punishing those who possess faith alone? How ungodly is it to preach that Christ saves and keeps his believers always - that they are not plucked out of his hand?

My suggestion to the original poster is that your comments about OSAS are based on WRATH and not the spirit of God. For if it was, it would speak of that WHICH IS Christ and discern only errors of the scriptural understanding. To simply say you are upset by one (or more) who believe in OSAS and then project that into the understanding of OSAS itself; is to deny Christ.

Do you offer someone their salvation by saying they do not possibly believe in Christ? Or do you start with faith?

Do you really appreciate what Jesus has done for you? How can you keep on saying all you have to do is accept Him as Savior and not as Lord?

That's exactly what you are doing. How arrogant of you. How ungrateful after what He has done.

there are so many verses rebuking people who mislead or stumble.

We are suppose to encourage followers to be obedient to Him and not giving them false assurance.

If we love one another, we encourage each other to be obedient to Him always.

After all His teaching is not burden; on the contrary its blessing. Try to obey everything what He teaches and commands. Then you will never tell anyone OSAS and what we do do not matter.

 

[joyinhim]

Your point has no base when one is ignorant of what one is condemning. All religions and theologies have bad eggs INCLUDING YOUR OWN.

Again - I urge you to actually research what it is you disagree with to actually bring some points to the table so we can have a healthy discussion about it. If not then I'm afraid this thread is going to die a quick death.

My base is coming from the fruit what you produce. The Bible says clearly that by our fruit we know if we are true followers or not. You have been avoiding the real issue and I can certainly understand why. We can always twist around the Scripues all we want. Thats why I don't debate it. You want to go on forever making it vague arguments.