The One Sinning is not Born of God

[RBDERRICK]

When we read Scripture as it is written, then much debate about being born of God and saved is needless.

God is the God of now, not yesterday, and not tomorrow, but now, and so Scripture is speaking of now:

While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. (Heb 3)

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (1 John 3)

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. (1 John 3)

The argument over whether God is speaking of a continued committed life of sin, or sinning once, is a sideshow: God is saying the one that is committing sin now, the one committed to sinning now, the one sinning now, is not born of Him, but is now of the devil.

Simple.

We cannot now be a son of God and a sinning child of the devil at the same time.

Neither yesterday nor tomorrow matters nothing at all to God, but only now:

When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby. But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby. (Ezek 33)

And neither should it matter to us, which is why Jesus exhorts us not to worry about tomorrow, but only resist the devil and obey Him now today:

Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof. (Matthew 6)

 

[RBDERRICK]

But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen. (2 Peter 3)

If we are sinning now, we are neither growing in grace, nor in grace at all. Nor are we in His fellowship of Light, but are at enmity with God in the darkness.

When we get real, and speak of what we are doing now, then all appearances of doctrine fade away, and only the truth remains.

If any man thinks he is saved, or justified, or born of God, or counted righteous while sinning against God for the devil, then it is plain he deceives himself, and no amount of doctrinal argument can say otherwise:

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Only the one doing His righteousness now, is righteous as He is now.

 

[Randy]

Ezekiel 36 tends to add weight on the effects of those born of the Spirit
This is something God is actively doing by His Spirit
I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws

As is written in the prophets
So he said to me, “This is the word of the LORD to Zerubbabel: ‘Not by might nor by power, but by my Spirit,’ says the LORD Almighty.

This is what John also wrote about those who really are born of God who are still in the flesh.
for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.

I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

 

[D-D-W]

We cannot now be a son of God and a sinning child of the devil at the same time.

RBDerrick: Was the Apostle Peter a born again son of God or not?

 

[Cnkw3]

RBDerrick: Was the Apostle Peter a born again son of God or not?

Since it has been a few days I will jump in and answer this one.
Yes he was. What is your point?

 

[D-D-W]

Since it has been a few days I will jump in and answer this one.
Yes he was. What is your point?

We cannot now be a son of God and a sinning child of the devil at the same time.

Peter sinned badly. Paul had to openly rebuke him:

Galatians 2:11
But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. 12 For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof, fearing the party of the circumcision. 13 The rest of the Jews joined him in hypocrisy, with the result that even Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy. 14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in the presence of all, “If you, being a Jew, live like the Gentiles and not like the Jews, how is it that you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?

According to that idea, Peter could not possibly have been saved since he was sinning.

 

[Cnkw3]

Peter sinned badly. Paul had to openly rebuke him:

Galatians 2:11
But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. 12 For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof, fearing the party of the circumcision. 13 The rest of the Jews joined him in hypocrisy, with the result that even Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy. 14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in the presence of all, “If you, being a Jew, live like the Gentiles and not like the Jews, how is it that you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?

According to that idea, Peter could not possibly have been saved since he was sinning.

Do you think Peter repented or not? Peter also sinned by denying the Lord. What if he would have died in that condition like Judas? Could Judas have been forgiven? Of course. If he would have repented and turned back to God. Did Peter repent of denying Christ and turn back to God? Yes. Was Peter still a child of God even while he was denying Christ? Yes. Was he a disobedient child of God? Yes. This is the key. Once you become a child of God you will always stay a child of God but you are still responsible for remaining faithful. When you sin you MUST repent, confess and pray for forgiveness. We see that in acts 8 and 1 jn1. If you don’t repent and continue to live in that sin and die in that condition you are lost. One cannot die in his sins and be forgiven. I sure wouldn’t want try it. Would you?

 

[Northman]

One cannot die in his sins and be forgiven.

Romans 7:17-19
"I keep on doing the evil I don't want to do"
"this I keep doing"
"but I do it anyway"
"this I practice"
"that I do"
It all sounds very active. Putting forth the concept that Paul, or any of us for that matter, would somehow face the second death if he/we died before "repenting" every singe time one of these slipped out turns God into an unstable hormonal teenage girl with all the double standards you have to bend to at any given time due to mood. No thanks.

 

[D-D-W]

Do you think Peter repented or not?

Of course he did.

Peter also sinned by denying the Lord. What if he would have died in that condition like Judas?

None of them were "born again" or "saved" as we think of it until after the Resurrected Lord breathed on them in John 20.22

Was Peter still a child of God even while he was denying Christ? Yes. Was he a disobedient child of God? Yes. This is the key. Once you become a child of God you will always stay a child of God but you are still responsible for remaining faithful. When you sin you MUST repent, confess and pray for forgiveness. We see that in acts 8 and 1 jn1.

That is not the point of the post I was responding to. That post insisted that if you sin you were never a child of God in the first place.

What you are saying in this post and that are 2 sides of OSAS, a concept that I find unsupported in Scripture.

 

[Cnkw3]

Romans 7:17-19
"I keep on doing the evil I don't want to do"
"this I keep doing"
"but I do it anyway"
"this I practice"
"that I do"
It all sounds very active. Putting forth the concept that Paul, or any of us for that matter, would somehow face the second death if he/we died before "repenting" every singe time one of these slipped out turns God into an unstable hormonal teenage girl with all the double standards you have to bend to at any given time due to mood. No thanks.

I do not think that Rom 7 is Paul describing his life as a Christian for a number of reasons. But I’m not going to get into that. You can believe what you want.

 

[Cnkw3]

Of course he did.

None of them were "born again" or "saved" as we think of it until after the Resurrected Lord breathed on them in John 20.22

I don’t agree. I believe they were faithful jews and had been baptized by john the baptist in his ministry. Jesus picked these individuals and I do not think he would have continued to teach them, send them out on the limited commission with a measure of the Spirit and travel with them if they had not been obedient to the message he was preaching.

That is not the point of the post I was responding to. That post insisted that if you sin you were never a child of God in the first place.

I didnt read it that way but you could be right.

What you are saying in this post and that are 2 sides of OSAS, a concept that I find unsupported in Scripture.

I don’t believe in OSAS.

 

[Northman]

I do not think that Rom 7 is Paul describing his life as a Christian for a number of reasons. But I’m not going to get into that. You can believe what you want.

Oh yes no doubt you have important things to do.

All I can say is that if I was an enemy of God, I would spend much of my time around his children trying to make them think God is unstable, to the point of waiting every second for an opportunity to take salvation away, and do it by planting seeds of distrust so that they would eventually tire of God as a natural progression of an abusive relationship. Easy peasy satan squeezy.

 

[Cnkw3]

Oh yes no doubt you have important things to do.

I hope this is isnt sarcastic because yes I have many more important things to do. I have a mother in the hospital a father with dementia, A full time job, a wife, 2 kids, 2 dogs, and a congregation that I am an active member of and I actually spend time on here doing my best to help give out gospel truth that nobody on here seems to care about. All you I want to do is mock.

All I can say is that if I was an enemy of God, I would spend much of my time around his children trying to make them think God is unstable, to the point of waiting every second for an opportunity to take salvation away, and do it by planting seeds of distrust so that they would eventually tire of God as a natural progression of an abusive relationship.

That is exactly what the devil does. There is a concept in the Bible you haven’t seemed to grasp. Faithfulness. And it ain’t easy. But we are promised this….
Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
Revelation 2:10

Easy peasy satan squeezy.

You clever Canadians

 

[Northman]

I hope this is isnt sarcastic because yes I have many more important things to do. I have a mother in the hospital a father with dementia, A full time job, a wife, 2 kids, 2 dogs, and a congregation that I am an active member of and I actually spend time on here doing my best to help give out gospel truth that nobody on here seems to care about. All you I want to do is mock.

Ahh ok, victim olympics. Since I don't do that, I can only talk about the actual matter at hand.

Romans 7, without personal/private interpretation, gets rid of the idea that God is waiting with a hammer every time you mess up threatening you will hell. You were toying with this concept in post #7. The idea is contrary to God's faithfulness, and instead paints a picture of an abuser. It's rather subtle though and takes a bit to play out in someone's life, with the devil laughing the entire way.

I really didn't even have a desire to hear what you did to Romans 7 in your head to make it fit. What needed to be said was said. Now you know. Acceptance/concession is not my aim.

 

[jaybo]

But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen. (2 Peter 3)

If we are sinning now, we are neither growing in grace, nor in grace at all. Nor are we in His fellowship of Light, but are at enmity with God in the darkness.

When we get real, and speak of what we are doing now, then all appearances of doctrine fade away, and only the truth remains.

If any man thinks he is saved, or justified, or born of God, or counted righteous while sinning against God for the devil, then it is plain he deceives himself, and no amount of doctrinal argument can say otherwise:

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Only the one doing His righteousness now, is righteous as He is now.

So you are sinless? You never sin? Interesting! Actually, thinking that you are 100% sinless is a sin.

 

[jaybo]

I do not think that Rom 7 is Paul describing his life as a Christian for a number of reasons. But I’m not going to get into that. You can believe what you want.

You are 100% correct! People who think that Romans 7 is Paul describing his life as a Christian should continue reading.

Romans 8:1-4, "Therefore there is now no condemnation at all for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk [present tense] according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

 

[Cnkw3]

You are 100% correct! People who think that Romans 7 is Paul describing his life as a Christian should continue reading.

Romans 8:1-4, "Therefore there is now no condemnation at all for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk [present tense] according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Amen. Good post.
I guess according to these people Paul just practiced all of those sins he hated.