Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

  • The Gospel of Jesus Christ

    Heard of "The Gospel"? Want to know more?

    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

  • Site Restructuring

    The site is currently undergoing some restructuring, which will take some time. Sorry for the inconvenience if things are a little hard to find right now.

    Please let us know if you find any new problems with the way things work and we will get them fixed. You can always report any problems or difficulty finding something in the Talk With The Staff / Report a site issue forum.

The Perverted Gospel!

donadams

Only Jesus Christ: the way, the truth, the life!
Catholicism Overseer
The Perverted Gospel!

(Fundamentalist Tradition)

“Accept Christ as your personal lord and savior, there is nothing more you need to do”!

I am saved, I have received Christ, His atoning blood washed all my sins clean, I will not do anything more!



“Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.”
Matt 26:41

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. Lk 9:23

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

Jn 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

Matt 5:7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

Matt 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

Matt 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

Thy will be done, behold I come to do Thy will: Matt 21:28-31

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

Mk 16:16 he who believes and is baptized shall be saved.

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

Matt 19:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

Romans 13:9
For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

2 Peter 1:5
And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

“For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;”
Phil 1:29

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

Matt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mk 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

Pride, presumption, & arrogance? Yes

Humility, meekness, & obedience?
N E V E R!
 
The perverted gospel and eternal security!!

If God grants irresistible grace to the justified; then we could not sin, we have perpetual perseverance, but if that were true we would not have free will, we could not choose to love God and do His will!

Sin requires free will, we must know it is wrong and still choose to do it!

This concept renders many scriptures meaningless!

Matt 7:14 must choose between the wide or narrow gate, road.

Matt 7:23 must choose acts of righteousness.

Matt 11:29 1 cor 13:2 Deut. 6:4 must choose virtue and love of God.

Matt 24:42 must choose to be prepared.

Jn 15:4 must choose to abide in or reject Christ.

Mk 13:12 & Matt 24:13 must choose to But endure unto the end to be saved.

Phil 1:29, col 1:24, must choose to believe and suffer for Christ’s sake.

Matt 26:41 must choose Watch & Pray to avoid sin, cos we cannot persevere without God’s help.

Jn 3:16 Heb 10:39 must choose to believe and continue in a state of faith.
 
Hello donadams.
The problem is theologians have taken such scriptures as,

But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. Isa.53:5 KJV

The chastisement that brings us peace occurs when we personally suffer,

Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby. Heb.12:11

Growing in Christ requires correction to grow from our own sinful conduct.
But (and way more inportantly) believers growing in holiness begin suffering for having done nothing wrong...as our Savior did.
Jesus restrained His anger against sinners, instead showing all mankind the longsuffering of our Father,

account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 2Pet.3:15 KJV

The "longsuffering of God" is clearly seen when He endured sinners trying to murder Him. This is why Heb.12 begins with the reason dear Lord suffered.

The Messiah repaid the terrible sins being committed against Him by showing His enemies the love, mercy and patience only God shows to sinners. He expects us to follow His example,

Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. Heb.12:4 KJV
 
Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

1 pet 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
 
Another irrelevant verse for those who believe in perpetual unconditional justification!

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
 
Are you saved?
God has saved me by His grace and mercy, apart from anything I have done. See here;
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Now Don, once we get this correct....good works will follow as a fruit of the Spirit, working in us...like this-

12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

Don, this is the biblical model! The R.C. church seeks to promote a man centered gospel of works in order to become saved, rather than a complete and God given trust In His person and work. I believe you want to be all about Jesus, but it must be in the way he has revealed to us.
 
Last edited:
God has saved me by His grace and mercy, apart from anything I have done. See here;
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Now Don, once we get this correct....good works will follow as a fruit of the Spirit, working in us...like this-

12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

Don, this is the biblical model! The R.C. church seeks to promote a man centered gospel of works in order to become saved, rather than a complete and God given trust In His person and work. I believe you want to be all about Jesus, but it must be in the way he has revealed to us.
You are not saved by faith alone?

Why would God not save all men?

When did you endure to the end and or die? Mk 13:13 Matt 24:13
 
The Perverted Gospel!

A perverted, or a truncated, gospel? I agree that lite-salvation shortchanges folk, and can rob them from the transformation of obedience. Evangelistic salvation is free-to-us entry into the messianic community, making folk siblings of Christ, able to enjoy family life at that level and with family assurance. Selling such as an entrance ticket to cash in at death, is misselling indeed. Other truncations of the gospel are possible, and no truncation is ideal. For instance, [Some believers flatly dismiss the idea of personal assurance of evangelistic—or ‘entrance’—forgiveness. Partly because, they say, it can lead to complacency in holiness (antinomianism). Bunyan dismissed that charge (made by Ignorance). Bunyan rightly said that superior Christianity is not about either assurance or holiness, but about both assurance and holiness.] (https://archive.org/details/revisiting-the-pilgrims-progress-230703/page/206/mode/1up)
 
You are not saved by faith alone?
Justification is by faith alone in the finished work of the Lord Jesus, His work was 100% perfect. I cannot add anything to it.
Why would God not save all men?
God who is perfect in all His ways has an eternal plan that cannot be changed , or improved upon. Sadly many sinners will be cast into second death[hell] God has set His eternal love on a great multitude of fallen sinners, but not all. he alone as the perfect judge will do right!
gen18;

24 Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein?

25 That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

When did you endure to the end and or die? Mk 13:13 Matt 24:13
Sanctification is a process that is life long. God sustains His people all the way;
Heb.13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
 
A perverted, or a truncated, gospel? I agree that lite-salvation shortchanges folk, and can rob them from the transformation of obedience. Evangelistic salvation is free-to-us entry into the messianic community, making folk siblings of Christ, able to enjoy family life at that level and with family assurance. Selling such as an entrance ticket to cash in at death, is misselling indeed. Other truncations of the gospel are possible, and no truncation is ideal. For instance, [Some believers flatly dismiss the idea of personal assurance of evangelistic—or ‘entrance’—forgiveness. Partly because, they say, it can lead to complacency in holiness (antinomianism). Bunyan dismissed that charge (made by Ignorance). Bunyan rightly said that superior Christianity is not about either assurance or holiness, but about both assurance and holiness.] (https://archive.org/details/revisiting-the-pilgrims-progress-230703/page/206/mode/1up)
What is the initiation into this new covenant communion of saints?
God has saved me by His grace and mercy, apart from anything I have done. See here;
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Now Don, once we get this correct....good works will follow as a fruit of the Spirit, working in us...like this-

12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

Don, this is the biblical model! The R.C. church seeks to promote a man centered gospel of works in order to become saved, rather than a complete and God given trust In His person and work. I believe you want to be all about Jesus, but it must be in the way he has revealed to us.
Sins forgiven by repentance or faith alone?

Acts 3:19
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
 
What is the initiation into this new covenant communion of saints?

Sins forgiven by repentance or faith alone?

Acts 3:19
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
The command to repent and believe lays hold of the Perfect work of Jesus on behalf of His people.
Jesus has done the work..."It is finished". That work alone justifies sinners who believe, by God given faith.
 
The command to repent and believe lays hold of the Perfect work of Jesus on behalf of His people.
Jesus has done the work..."It is finished". That work alone justifies sinners who believe, by God given faith.
So are you rejecting “faith alone”?


What is the “it” it is finished?

Thks
 
So are you rejecting “faith alone”?
nope...Don, do not speak for me. I did not post that. the 5 solas stand.
What is the “it” it is finished?
The Covenant death that the Father sent the Son to accomplish. Jesus perfect work of law keeping in order to redeem those sinners who were under the laws condemnation.
"it" = Gal.4:
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
These are the elect Children given by the Father to the Son

your welcome
 
What is the initiation into this new covenant communion of saints?
I am unaware that there is one. Ac.9:27 was surely untypical. Whom the spirit welcomes into the church have communion with the saints as fellow saints.
 
nope...Don, do not speak for me. I did not post that. the 5 solas stand.

The Covenant death that the Father sent the Son to accomplish. Jesus perfect work of law keeping in order to redeem those sinners who were under the laws condemnation.
"it" = Gal.4:
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5 To redeem them that were under the law,
that we might receive the adoption of sons.
These are the elect Children given by the Father to the Son
You said repentance is required?

The command to repent and believe lays hold of the Perfect work of Jesus on behalf of His people”. Your quote

How is repent and believe supposed to be “faith alone”?

The “it” was not the redemption but the Passover, those are actually the very words the high must say at the consummation of the Passover!

Jesus is the lamb of God! Jn 1:29

We must eat the lamb! Jn 6
 
I am unaware that there is one. Ac.9:27 was surely untypical. Whom the spirit welcomes into the church have communion with the saints as fellow saints.

Your quote: “Evangelistic salvation is free-to-us entry into the messianic community, making folk siblings of Christ”
So how do we enter or obtain initiation?
 
The Perverted Gospel!

(Fundamentalist Tradition)

“Accept Christ as your personal lord and savior, there is nothing more you need to do”!

I am saved, I have received Christ, His atoning blood washed all my sins clean, I will not do anything more!



“Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.”
Matt 26:41

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. Lk 9:23

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

Jn 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

Matt 5:7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

Matt 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

Matt 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

Thy will be done, behold I come to do Thy will: Matt 21:28-31

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

Mk 16:16 he who believes and is baptized shall be saved.

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

Matt 19:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

Romans 13:9
For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

2 Peter 1:5
And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

“For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;”
Phil 1:29

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

Matt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mk 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

Pride, presumption, & arrogance? Yes

Humility, meekness, & obedience?
N E V E R!
The tradition you describe by fundamentalists isn't fundamental.
Ergo, you have mislabeled fundamentalists.
 
The Perverted Gospel!

(Fundamentalist Tradition)

“Accept Christ as your personal lord and savior, there is nothing more you need to do”!

I am saved, I have received Christ, His atoning blood washed all my sins clean, I will not do anything more!



“Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.”
Matt 26:41

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. Lk 9:23

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

Jn 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

Matt 5:7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

Matt 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

Matt 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

Thy will be done, behold I come to do Thy will: Matt 21:28-31

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

Mk 16:16 he who believes and is baptized shall be saved.

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

Matt 19:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

Romans 13:9
For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

2 Peter 1:5
And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

“For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;”
Phil 1:29

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

Matt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mk 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

I’m saved, I will not do anything more!

Pride, presumption, & arrogance? Yes

Humility, meekness, & obedience?
N E V E R!


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9
 
Back
Top