Bible Study The Rapture

[Douglas Summers]

One of my favorite questions is to address what the Lord's Day, or the Day of the Lord is. From that point in time there are three viewpoints addressed in Rev 1:19. Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter.

I Believe Eugene, The Lord's Day or the Day of the Lord to be the same thing. (The day of God's Judgment or wrath) (Isa. 2:12; 13:6) (Ezekiel 13:5; 30:3) (Joel 1:15; 2:1; 11, 31; 3:14) (Amos 5:18,20) (Acts 2:20) (1 Thes. 5:2) (2 Thes. 2:2) (2 Peter 3:10) Rev. 6:17) (Rev. 16:14). I know of no early Church calling Sunday the Lord's day during the writing of Revelation.

 

[Eugene]

The seventh trumpet is sounded in Rev 11:15 and continues with all the events from Rev 11:15 through Rev 19 and then we will be with the Lord forever.
I already explained the 24 Elders in post # 68 and how the earthly Elders are patterned after them. I believe the last day mentioned in John 6:40 is the very last day here on earth after mystery Babylon is destroyed, Rev 18 and then we are caught up to the clouds to meet Jesus in the air as He returns to destroy the beast and false prophet throwing them into the lake of fire. All the Kingdoms on earth will have now become the Kingdoms of the Lord as Satan will also be cast into the lake of fire as he has no more authority on earth.

for_his_glory, are you referring to those saints that may be involved with Mystery Babylon of Rev 17:5?

Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
These are those of the judgment of Thyatira in Rev 2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

Do you realize, or I should probably ask if you believe there are some of the Church promised to be kept from the temptation to come upon all the world (Rev 3:10), and others to come out of great tribulation to appear before God’s throne? (Rev 7:9).
You did refer to the twenty-four elders of Rev 4:4 back in your post #68, and to my understanding you don't believe when John saw them there, that they were not actually in round about the throne of Jesus in heaven, but were only types of the elders in our churches? Thanks again.

 

[for_his_glory]

Did you punch him?
Just kidding.

No, but I was devastated that he would not give me any counsel for what I was dealing with and left me to figure it all out. It wasn't long until I found another Church.

 

[for_his_glory]

It is much more than that glory, as Christ makes clear, even an evil man can have compassion and emotion (Matt. 7:11)

Yes, but Gods love is unconditional while man puts conditions on his love to others.

 

[for_his_glory]

One of my favorite questions is to address what the Lord's Day, or the Day of the Lord is. From that point in time there are three viewpoints addressed in Rev 1:19. Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter.

Really? In Rev 4:1 we read: Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. Was John actually caught up in spirit to heaven to observe things to occur hereafter from that point in time of the Lord's Day? You mention an angel; do you know who Jesus' angel of Rev 1:1 is, and where it was? Again it gets too long to keep up with in one post, so I'll only address portions of your post, and attempt to reply to the other parts on separate replies. Thanks.

[/QUOTE]

It is hard to keep it short and just take your time replying.

Many times I have seen others capitalized day as in the Lord's Day as scripture says Lord's day meaning the day the Lord sent the angel to John. Things hast seen are that of John actually following Jesus while He was on earth and later giving testimony of that. The things which are would be that of the angel speaking to John as he gives a description of the angel and what he heard. Things which shall be are the rest of future prophecies he would receive.

I believe come up hither in this scenario would only mean to draw deeper in the Spirit to see and understand all the visions he would be given. It's hard to understand if one has never been deeply drawn into the Spirit, but I and many others have been drawn deep into the light (actual bright light) of the Spirit of God as He spoke to us.

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: 2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. his servants those things which will come

God gave the revelation to Jesus first. Jesus sent and signified it by his angel who than the angel appeared to John while John was in the Spirit on the isle of Patmos, not taken up to the third heaven.

 

[for_his_glory]

Rev 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne. Wasn't our Father's throne always in heaven?
Who was sitting on this new throne?
Rev 4:3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald. Is not this book of Revelation the revelation of God's Son Jesus? Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass. Who else would this throne being set be for?
Rev 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come. Dear sister, this is Jesus.
Rev 4:9 And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever.

Has Jesus taken that "all power & authority" we read of in Mt 28:18? If so, why are nations still in power? That will not be the case in the Lord's Day.

While being in the Spirit John sees a vision of a throne and one who sat on it. By the description John gives in these verses we can understand that it would be God sitting on the throne.

Jeremiah 33: 14; Rev 11:14 In those days means during the time of the seventh trumpet as things will happen very quickly in Gods timing and then the kingdoms of this world will become the kingdoms of the Lord as at that time mystery Babylon will have been destroyed and the beast and false prophet cast into the lake of fire. Satan is then bound for a time (I don't believe in a literal 1000 years) and then released to send his army to surround the camp of Gods children and he and his army are consumed by the fire that God sends down on them and all cast into the lake of fire. We will then be safe with the Lord when the New Jerusalem is ushered down and Jesus will then sit on the throne of David reigning over the nations. For now Jesus only sits down at the right hand of God not on His own throne, but in Gods throne as the kingdoms of this world have not yet become the kingdoms of the Lord as Satan is still ruling over the kingdoms of this world, Rev 3:20-22.

 

[Eugene]

It is hard to keep it short and just take your time replying.

Many times I have seen others capitalized day as in the Lord's Day as scripture says Lord's day meaning the day the Lord sent the angel to John. Things hast seen are that of John actually following Jesus while He was on earth and later giving testimony of that. The things which are would be that of the angel speaking to John as he gives a description of the angel and what he heard. Things which shall be are the rest of future prophecies he would receive.

Could we instead think of these three as three different dispensations, or viewpoints of Jesus dealing with us instead: before Jesus dying, things occurring at this present time, and things future from the time Jesus begins His reign? If not, please prove it showing scripture.

I believe come up hither in this scenario would only mean to draw deeper in the Spirit to see and understand all the visions he would be given. It's hard to understand if one has never been deeply drawn into the Spirit, but I and many others have been drawn deep into the light (actual bright light) of the Spirit of God as He spoke to us.

To me that requires supposition versus the things Jesus' angel is showing John.

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: 2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. his servants those things which will come

Have you figured who Jesus' angel of Rev 1:1 (His angel) is yet, who it is, and where they are? Knowing that will clear up so much as to rightly dividing the viewpoints shown John.

God gave the revelation to Jesus first. Jesus sent and signified it by his angel who than the angel appeared to John while John was in the Spirit on the isle of Patmos, not taken up to the third heaven.

Was John caught forward in time to the Lord's Day when there is a throne set in heaven, and from that future time on Patmos, John is asked to come up to heaven where he sees a throne set, and ONE sat upon it. Who did John see sitting on that throne at that time of the Lord's Day?

 

[for_his_glory]

for_his_glory, are you referring to those saints that may be involved with Mystery Babylon of Rev 17:5?

Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
These are those of the judgment of Thyatira in Rev 2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

Do you realize, or I should probably ask if you believe there are some of the Church promised to be kept from the temptation to come upon all the world (Rev 3:10), and others to come out of great tribulation to appear before God’s throne? (Rev 7:9).
You did refer to the twenty-four elders of Rev 4:4 back in your post #68, and to my understanding you don't believe when John saw them there, that they were not actually in round about the throne of Jesus in heaven, but were only types of the elders in our churches? Thanks again.

The saints meaning those who are in Christ and He in them have always been forewarned not to be tempted by taking the mark of this beast or believe the lies that come from mystery Babylon. Those in Christ are to remain patient as they overcome all that will fall around them, not on them, during the time of Gods great wrath that falls on those who reject Jesus. The seven Churches in the beginning of Rev are literal of Asia, but also symbolically represent all of us that make up the body of Christ.

Rev 7:9 The elder reveals to John these are they who have come out of great tribulation being Gentiles that have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb and were baptized and received the Holy Spirit as the Jews have received. John had to understand this in order to write this to the seven churches. Jews were always taught that the Gentiles were an unclean evil people full of idol worshipping and in no way could they be worthy of anything of God including his love. Jew’s were not allowed to associate with the Gentiles in fear they too would fall to their idol worshipping like they did when they followed after Jeroboam. The twelve Disciples were only allowed to go to the nations of Israel to preach, Matthew 10:5-7, but Peter was shown in a vision that the Gentiles were not unclean as they too needed to repent and come to God for his salvation. The Gentiles John saw would be the same as those under the alter in Rev 6:9-11 as the white robes are that of being covered by Gods righteousness. It would only be the breath/spirit of those who had already died and lay in the grave as that is the only thing that returns back to God until Christ returns.Genesis 2:7; Ecc 12:7.

The elders in heaven do surround the throne of God as Jesus is not yet sitting on the throne of David as Jesus is only at the right hand of God in His throne. These are heavenly elders that stand as gatekeepers of the heavenly house of God. The earthly elders in the church are to be patterned after them.

 

[Eugene]

While being in the Spirit John sees a vision of a throne and one who sat on it. By the description John gives in these verses we can understand that it would be God sitting on the throne.

Where do you read John was given a vision instead of being shown events as they occurred? Please don't misunderstand, I'm also susceptible to missing something the Holy Spirit is showing you.

Jeremiah 33: 14; Rev 11:14 In those days means during the time of the seventh trumpet as things will happen very quickly in Gods timing and then the kingdoms of this world will become the kingdoms of the Lord as at that time mystery Babylon will have been destroyed and the beast and false prophet cast into the lake of fire.

Agreed! Now the tribulation is over, and Jesus reigns alone as King of kings, and Lord of lords for a thousand years.
Revelation 11:15 which says: "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."
Let's not forget 1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.[/QUOTE]

Satan is then bound for a time (I don't believe in a literal 1000 years)

WHY????

and then released to send his army to surround the camp of Gods children

Which ones? Those of the nations, or the ones in heaven with Christ?

and he and his army are consumed by the fire that God sends down on them and all cast into the lake of fire. We will then be safe with the Lord when the New Jerusalem is ushered down and Jesus will then sit on the throne of David reigning over the nations. For now Jesus only sits down at the right hand of God not on His own throne, but in Gods throne as the kingdoms of this world have not yet become the kingdoms of the Lord as Satan is still ruling over the kingdoms of this world, Rev 3:20-22.

Yes, Satan and usurping nations rule, but there is coming a time in Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. This is the beginning of the second half of tribulation and he has but a short time left.
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Is there the possibility the body of Christ are the ones dwelling in heaven at this time rejoicing?

PS - I'll add that the inhabitants of the earth are Israel, and the sea are the Gentiles for future discussion.

 

[for_his_glory]

Could we instead think of these three as three different dispensations, or viewpoints of Jesus dealing with us instead: before Jesus dying, things occurring at this present time, and things future from the time Jesus begins His reign? If not, please prove it showing scripture.

To me that requires supposition versus the things Jesus' angel is showing John.

Have you figured who Jesus' angel of Rev 1:1 (His angel) is yet, who it is, and where they are? Knowing that will clear up so much as to rightly dividing the viewpoints shown John.

Was John caught forward in time to the Lord's Day when there is a throne set in heaven, and from that future time on Patmos, John is asked to come up to heaven where he sees a throne set, and ONE sat upon it. Who did John see sitting on that throne at that time of the Lord's Day?

These are all revelations given by visions to John of those things he has already seen, things he is now seeing and things which are yet to come to pass, before the return of Christ, John 16:12-15, 1 Corinthians 1:4-8; 1 John 1:1; Rev 1:1, 19.

Like I said if one has never experienced being caught up in the Spirit they can not understand what hither means here in this verse. I can not go against what Jesus said in John 3:13.

The angel of Rev 1:1 is the angel of God that came from heaven to John while he was in the Spirit to show him all the visions.

John was never literally caught forward in time as he sat as a prisoner on the isle of Patmos for the witness and testimony of Christ. On that day being as everyday is the Lord's day this particular day the angel of the Lord came to him. John was never asked to come up to heaven, but only to come hither (being in the Spirit) as in the vision he saw a door being opened in heaven. This would not be a literal door, but like a door of opportunity that John was given the opportunity to see and understand all that he saw so he could write and give all these revelations to the seven churches of his day.

 

[Eugene]

The saints meaning those who are in Christ and He in them have always been forewarned not to be tempted by taking the mark of this beast or believe the lies that come from mystery Babylon. Those in Christ are to remain patient as they overcome all that will fall around them, not on them, during the time of Gods great wrath that falls on those who reject Jesus. The seven Churches in the beginning of Rev are literal of Asia, but also symbolically represent all of us that make up the body of Christ.

At that time even Satan’s best is unable to harm the saints that have the seal of God.
Rev 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

Mar 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

Rev 7:9 The elder reveals to John these are they who have come out of great tribulation being Gentiles that have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb and were baptized and received the Holy Spirit as the Jews have received. John had to understand this in order to write this to the seven churches.

I've no idea where you're getting this that the great multitude is just Gentiles. To me they are a portion of the church that included Jews and Gentiles that wasn't ready for the rapture as it were when Jesus met the twenty-four elders & the four beasts in the air.Rev 4:4 & Rev 4: 6.
Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands.

 

[Eugene]

These are all revelations given by visions to John of those things he has already seen

Why would John need a vision to write of things he had seen?

The angel of Rev 1:1 is the angel of God that came from heaven to John while he was in the Spirit to show him all the visions.

I still do not agree that Jesus' angel only showed John visions when scripture states that he was shown events. in Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me (John heard - not a vision); which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
Again, when you discover who Jesus' angel is will clear up many of these things you're either heard, or read somewhere. Who is he?

John was never literally caught forward in time as he sat as a prisoner on the isle of Patmos for the witness and testimony of Christ. On that day being as everyday is the Lord's day this particular day the angel of the Lord came to him. John was never asked to come up to heaven, but only to come hither (being in the Spirit) as in the vision he saw a door being opened in heaven. This would not be a literal door, but like a door of opportunity that John was given the opportunity to see and understand all that he saw so he could write and give all these revelations to the seven churches of his day.

WOW!!!
I just don't get it how that "Come up hither" can't really mean what it says.

 

[Roro1972]

Harpazo is not the proper word for rapture, IMO. We have to use the language of Yahshua which is Aramaic. The Aramaic/Hebrew word for Rapture is Netchatef....Here is a video from my instructor in the Hebrew language, Alan Horvath who is a converted Jew....Buckle up Glory Girl, you're about to learn some new spiritual lessons as I have. Alan has video's on just about any questions you and others might have....Enjoy my friend.

I stopped watching at 9 minutes. My bible says A new covenant not a renewed covenant

 

[for_his_glory]

Where do you read John was given a vision instead of being shown events as they occurred? Please don't misunderstand, I'm also susceptible to missing something the Holy Spirit is showing you.

Agreed! Now the tribulation is over, and Jesus reigns alone as King of kings, and Lord of lords for a thousand years.
Revelation 11:15 which says: "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."
Let's not forget 1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

WHY????

Which ones? Those of the nations, or the ones in heaven with Christ?

Yes, Satan and usurping nations rule, but there is coming a time in Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. This is the beginning of the second half of tribulation and he has but a short time left.
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Is there the possibility the body of Christ are the ones dwelling in heaven at this time rejoicing?

PS - I'll add that the inhabitants of the earth are Israel, and the sea are the Gentiles for future discussion. [/QUOTE]

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet

Rev 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit; and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

Revelation means things that are unveiled and revealed to us as John was given these visions by the angel of God through that of Christ while he was here on earth and only in the Spirit.

A 1000 years in Rev 20 is not literal years, but only symbolic of a certain period of time as nowhere else in scripture does it mention a literal 1000 year reign of Christ here on earth, but symbolic as in Deuteronomy 7:9; 1Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2Peter 3:8.

What would be the purpose of God to bind Satan for a 1000 years after ending and destroying all the abominations on earth and make us wait that long before renewing the heaven and earth ushering down the New Jerusalem.

The army that Satan gathers are the spirits of devils spoken of in Rev 16:14 that will compass the camp of the saints in Rev 20:7-9. The reason these are the spirits of devils is because Jesus had already cast the beast and false prophet into the lake of fire and slew the remnant that followed after them, Rev 19:20, 21.

When Satan and his unholy angels are cast out of heaven, Rev 12:7-9, Satan now comes down to earth as he works through the beast out of the sea and out of the earth in Rev 13 as he deceives the nations into bowing down to him and taking his mark. This is the timing when Jesus said he would keep us from the hour of temptation that will fall upon the world as we have kept his word and are patient for His return, Rev 3:10-13.

 

[for_his_glory]

Why would John need a vision to write of things he had seen?

I still do not agree that Jesus' angel only showed John visions when scripture states that he was shown events. in Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me (John heard - not a vision); which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
Again, when you discover who Jesus' angel is will clear up many of these things you're either heard, or read somewhere. Who is he?

WOW!!!
I just don't get it how that "Come up hither" can't really mean what it says.

It was within the vision the angel told hm to write the things he had already seen.

The visions showed the events of all things which are to come as John heard the voice of the angel speaking to him. Maybe I should be asking you who you think this angel of Jesus is as it is scripture alone that shows me who it is.

Like I said, unless one experiences being caught up in the Spirit I truly do not think they could understand what hither means in that verse. I know when I was caught up in the Spirit and heard the voice of who spoke to me in the first person of Jesus I was still on the ground where I fell.

 

[Douglas Summers]

Yes, but Gods love is unconditional while man puts conditions on his love to others.

Yes, The very point I was making, and those who are born again (literally have and are sealed with The Holy Spirit) (Eph. 1:12-14) have inherited that same nature as a birthright. (Heb. 12:14-17). Not I but Christ in me (Gal. 2:20). God has never given us the power to usurp His authority to teach, but to be a vessel for His Gospel (The grace of God in Jesus Christ AND The Kingdom) (Acts 1:3, 6,7) (Acts 4:1-2) (Acts 4:12) (Acts 5:29-32) (Acts 5:42) (Acts 6:8-10) (Acts 8:12) (Acts 9:20). Faith, the only condition for salvation (Acts 16:25-34). (Acts 19:8) (Acts 20:17-27) (Acts 28:31) This is what was preached. Feeling sorry or even compassion for someone is a human emotion, but with prejudice or bias, But God is not a respecter of persons, His grace is for all, So feeling compassion for someone does not make us Godly, just as being sorry for sin does not make us righteous, nor does it save us. Being sorry for sin may lead to salvation, but in itself, being sorry still leaves us under the judgement of God's wrath. Church People have taken human emotion and character and used it in place of Regeneration by the Holy Spirit. Most of the warnings in the NT are to those who are self righteous and deceived. This forum allows everyone to teach or discus their own understanding of the Gospel or their own doctrines, God does not, God expects those He has called to be responsible for what he has revealed to His own, But God knows those who are His. Apart from God, we can do nothing but lie or guess. Human emotions and Spiritual Grace are two different attributes. The one we are influenced or driven by depends upon how or what we teach.

 

[Eugene]

What would be the purpose of God to bind Satan for a 1000 years after ending and destroying all the abominations on earth and make us wait that long before renewing the heaven and earth ushering down the New Jerusalem.

The army that Satan gathers are the spirits of devils spoken of in Rev 16:14 that will compass the camp of the saints in Rev 20:7-9. The reason these are the spirits of devils is because Jesus had already cast the beast and false prophet into the lake of fire and slew the remnant that followed after them, Rev 19:20, 21.

Possibly to court the nations now without the influence of Satan as all Israel is saved?

When Satan and his unholy angels are cast out of heaven, Rev 12:7-9, Satan now comes down to earth as he works through the beast out of the sea and out of the earth in Rev 13 as he deceives the nations into bowing down to him and taking his mark.

To me this is the time of Jacob's trouble; the second half of the tribulation, and the Church is already in heaven.

This is the timing when Jesus said he would keep us from the hour of temptation that will fall upon the world as we have kept his word and are patient for His return, Rev 3:10-13.

I suppose this to be another we don't agree on, and that is the time of testing during the first three and one-half years of tribulation where the great multitude of Revelation chapter Seven stand before the throne, and the one hundred and forty-four thousand of Revelation Chapter Fourteen appear in the heavenly Jerusalem (mount Sion - Heb 12:22) with Jesus.

Dear sister, have you figured who Jesus' angel is yet?

 

[Eugene]

Maybe I should be asking you who you think this angel of Jesus is as it is scripture alone that shows me who it is.

Tricky.
Which scripture; where was he, and who was he? Was he on Patmos?

 

[for_his_glory]

At that time even Satan’s best is unable to harm the saints that have the seal of God.
Rev 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

Mar 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

I've no idea where you're getting this that the great multitude is just Gentiles. To me they are a portion of the church that included Jews and Gentiles that wasn't ready for the rapture as it were when Jesus met the twenty-four elders & the four beasts in the air.Rev 4:4 & Rev 4: 6.
Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands.

Rev 9 is an all together different topic, but yet the locust are part of Gods wrath on those who continue to reject Christ.

After reading and rereading Rev 7:9-17 These could be both Jew and Gentile, but I'm leaning more that they were Gentiles that also came out of tribulation as before that the 144,000 were explained. I will have to dig deeper into this. Thank you for bringing that to my attention.

I must ask you where it says that these Jews and Gentiles weren't ready for the rapture (I believe Jesus only returns once for His Church) and when did Jesus meet the twenty four elders and the four beast in the air? I do not see that in Rev 4, 6.

BTW, I am enjoying our sharing all this together with a civil attitude towards each other

 

[Douglas Summers]

What would be the purpose of God to bind Satan for a 1000 years after ending and destroying all the abominations on earth and make us wait that long before renewing the heaven and earth ushering down the New Jerusalem.

The Purpose of the (literal) 1000 year reign is to fulfill The promises of Israel as a nation and restore her earthly glory among the nations under the rule of the son of David (Christ) (a perpetual promise). (2 Sam. 7:4-19) (Psalms 89:20-37) Study it, this is called the Davidic Covenant. (Psalms 89:34-35).