Bible Study The Rapture

[Roro1972]

My studies and convictions are in the ancient Hebrew, not the modern Hebrew of which http://www.seekgod.ca/hr/hrfaqs1.htm uses as well as the Greek Renewed Covenant.

everyone has their own beliefs; Israel broke the covenant with God so there is no renewed. we are told God said He would make a new covenant. Israel did not believe Jesus while he was on earth and He knew they would not. He also knew that Israel could not live up to the old covenant. The new covenant proof is shown in several places in the Bible So i guess we have different beliefs.

 

[Chopper]

everyone has their own beliefs; Israel broke the covenant with God so there is no renewed. we are told God said He would make a new covenant. Israel did not believe Jesus while he was on earth and He knew they would not. He also knew that Israel could not live up to the old covenant. The new covenant proof is shown in several places in the Bible So i guess we have different beliefs.

My conviction is that the only difference between the first Covenant and the renewed covenant is the death and resurrection of Yahshua and His shed Blood for the remission of our sins and receiving His righteousness apart from the Law of obedience to the Mosaic Commands.

The Torah, Abba Father's loving instructions to all of us is still in effect because Yahweh never changes. I just finished a study in the five books of the Torah, in the Paleo Hebrew and was wonderfully blessed. Salvation is obtained thru Yahshua, not the Law of animal sacrifice's which only covered Israel's sins until Yahshua was crucified for the final sacrifice that ended the first Covenant's many animal sacrifices.

Be blessed my friend.

 

[Jim Parker]

The Torah, Abba Father's loving instructions to all of us is still in effect because Yahweh never changes. I just finished a study in the five books of the Torah, in the Paleo Hebrew and was wonderfully blessed. Salvation is obtained thru Yahshua, not the Law of animal sacrifice's which only covered Israel's sins until Yahshua was crucified for the final sacrifice that ended the first Covenant's many animal sacrifices.

Eggs Ackley

 

[Roro1972]

My conviction is that the only difference between the first Covenant and the renewed covenant is the death and resurrection of Yahshua and His shed Blood for the remission of our sins and receiving His righteousness apart from the Law of obedience to the Mosaic Commands.

The Torah, Abba Father's loving instructions to all of us is still in effect because Yahweh never changes. I just finished a study in the five books of the Torah, in the Paleo Hebrew and was wonderfully blessed. Salvation is obtained thru Yahshua, not the Law of animal sacrifice's which only covered Israel's sins until Yahshua was crucified for the final sacrifice that ended the first Covenant's many animal sacrifices.

Be blessed my friend.

can you explain why in Acts 15 the hand picked and taught by Jesus Apostles did not say Gentiles were to follow the old covenant?
if you don't mind, Im having a hard time with this renewed theory

 

[Jim Parker]

can you explain why in Acts 15 the hand picked and taught by Jesus Apostles did not say Gentiles were to follow the old covenant?

I can.
The Old Covenant was between God and Israel ONLY. (Exo 6:7, Deu 14:2)
The New Covenant replaces the old one. (Heb 8:13)
The New Covenant is between God and whoever believes; it is open to everyone. (John 3:16)

hope that helps.

iakov the fool

 

[Roro1972]

I can.
The Old Covenant was between God and Israel ONLY. (Exo 6:7, Deu 14:2)
The New Covenant replaces the old one. (Heb 8:13)
The New Covenant is between God and whoever believes; it is open to everyone. (John 3:16)

hope that helps.

iakov the fool

This my belief also Jim.
I have not seen how the renewed covenant believers explain Acts 15 which in my view is clearly different.

 

[Jim Parker]

This my belief also Jim.
I have not seen how the renewed covenant believers explain Acts 15 which in my view is clearly different.

I am not familiar with the term "renewed covenant."

iakov the fool

 

[Roro1972]

I am not familiar with the term "renewed covenant."

iakov the fool

its post # 3 on 1st page

 

[jasonc]

So a hebrew is under the torah after the cross?

 

[Jim Parker]

The Torah, Abba Father's loving instructions to all of us is still in effect because Yahweh never changes.

Not quite.
There is no longer any need for the Levitical priesthood and the sacrificial system prescribed in the Torah.
Neither are Gentile required to go to Jerusalem for the feasts or to bring their tithes there 3 out of 4 years.
When a Christian is healed of a disease, he is not required to show himself to a Levitical priest and offer the proper sacrifice.
Christians are not required to keep the food restrictions given in the Torah.

Matt 22:3740
Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

Rom 13:8-10
Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

 

[Cygnus]

Somehow I think this fits in...Acts 10: 9About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. 13Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”

14“Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”

15The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”

16This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.

 

[Chopper]

Not quite.
There is no longer any need for the Levitical priesthood and the sacrificial system prescribed in the Torah.
Neither are Gentile required to go to Jerusalem for the feasts or to bring their tithes there 3 out of 4 years.
When a Christian is healed of a disease, he is not required to show himself to a Levitical priest and offer the proper sacrifice.
Christians are not required to keep the food restrictions given in the Torah.

Matt 22:3740
Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

Rom 13:8-10
Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Granted Jim. The Torah is still Yahweh's loving instruction to His "Called Out Ones". Yahshua (Jesus) fulfilled the priesthood and became our Kohen ha`Gadol (High Priest) Many, as you have pointed out, of the 1st Covenant (Old Testament) ordinances have been satisfied in our Adon (Master) Yahshua.

In the Torah (five books) the heart of YHWH can be seen by what He lovingly instructs His chosen people. Other than animal sacrifices, the priesthood, and other distinctly Jewish customs, the rest of the Torah is very valuable for YHWH's Believers. Our Abba Father has many blessings for those who follow the Torah. Of course, there are many folk who don't care to study the 1st Covenant, only the Renewed Covenant. (These two Covenant names come from the Paleo Hebrew)

 

[dirtfarmer]

Granted Jim. The Torah is still Yahweh's loving instruction to His "Called Out Ones". Yahshua (Jesus) fulfilled the priesthood and became our Kohen ha`Gadol (High Priest) Many, as you have pointed out, of the 1st Covenant (Old Testament) ordinances have been satisfied in our Adon (Master) Yahshua.

In the Torah (five books) the heart of YHWH can be seen by what He lovingly instructs His chosen people. Other than animal sacrifices, the priesthood, and other distinctly Jewish customs, the rest of the Torah is very valuable for YHWH's Believers. Our Abba Father has many blessings for those who follow the Torah. Of course, there are many folk who don't care to study the 1st Covenant, only the Renewed Covenant. (These two Covenant names come from the Paleo Hebrew)

hello Chopper, dirtfarmer here

When you make the statement; " The rest of the Torah is very valuable for YHWH's believers", are you referencing the church, the body of Christ?
How do you interpret Jesus' statement in Matthew 5:17, " Think not that I am come to destroy the law or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill."?
It is my understanding that the Old testament is divide into 3 sections:
1. Tanakh- Torah 5 books of the Pentateuch- Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy
2. Prophets- Joshua, Judges, 1&2 Samuel, 1&2 Kings, and then the latter prophets- Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and the 12 minor prophets.
3. Writtings- Psalm, Proverbs, Job, The Song of Songs, Ruth, Lamentations, Ecclesiastes, Ester, Daniel, Ezra, Nehemiah, and 1&2 Chronicles.

If a covenant is fulfilled then it no longer is in force, hence, the reason for the New testament purchased by the blood of Christ and the establishment of his church, the Body of Christ.

Are we believers in YHWH and have to keep even part of the old covenant, or believers in Christ, the Son of God that fulfilled the law and the prophets and are a new creation to walk in the works that Christ has accomplished. It is not our righteousness but the righteousness of Christ that has made us acceptable to God.

 

[Jim Parker]

the rest of the Torah is very valuable for YHWH's Believers.

The sacrificial laws and the purity/defilement laws were shadows of what Jesus would do.
But the laws which prescribe how we are to treat one another and our neighbors and even our enemies are summed up in Jesus command to love as He loved the world. (Saints AND sinners) That part of the Law did not go away and we need to pay attention.

It is very profitable for a Christian to study the Law of Moses. (Torah)

iakov the fool

 

[turnorburn]

James 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?

7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?

8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

 

[Jim Parker]

James 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him? 6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats? 7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called? 8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: 9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. 10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

And your point is.......????
What thought do you want to convey by posting that passage?
Can you state your point in your own words using modern English? (I don't speak "King James" late Middle English.)
There is absolutely no way anyone can be sure of what you think that message of that passage as it pertains to the current discussion might be.

SO, please, in your own words: your point is.........

 

[brujaq]

So a hebrew is under the torah after the cross?

More like until the cross, but like Jesus they love their nation .. I love to hear a Jew who is born again teach and preach, there's some good former muslims who become Christians that can preach good too .

 

[Jim Parker]

So a hebrew is under the torah after the cross?

Is he still a Jew?
Of course he can't go to Jerusalem to bring his sacrifices because there is no temple.
It seems to me that a Jew can continue to keep the Law in obedience to God but, if he is a believer in Christ, then he knows that it is by faith in Christ he is saved.

Some confusion is introduced into the question by the prevalent and ever popular false antinomian*** teaching that no works are necessary to attain eternal life, just "belief." The majority of the content of the NT letters have to do with what Christians are to do and not to do as believers. A jew trying to keep the law with regard to how he interacts with his neighbor (society) would find himself in great agreement with those early Jews who wrote the New Testament letters.


iakov the fool

*** antinomianism: the belief that under the gospel dispensation of grace the moral law is of no use or obligation because faith alone is necessary to salvation.

 

[brujaq]

Did Peter refuse to eat with gentiles in front of his Jewish friends because of custom or was he trying to convert them knowing he could teach the meat later without losing them for now ? Galatians 2:7-8 .. Was Paul more correct when he openly opposed Peter to his face in front of all which goes against scripture to first confront him privately on the matter ? Were they both right and wrong ? I think that at times works are confused and imo some works are considered ''if I do this then God is forced to do that'' or ''I must do this'' .. I purposely chose to live in a double wide trailer instead of maxing out my finances on a big home and debt so that I could help folks in need when God put it in my heart, folks I run across in my walk and ministries too .. Once God puts it in my heart it is done and not work but obedience .. And I know I don't have to but willingly and cheerfully in Jesus name and not just material things .. I don't see it as work even though some may see it that way .. Hebrews 6:10

 

[Chopper]

hello Chopper, dirtfarmer here

When you make the statement; " The rest of the Torah is very valuable for YHWH's believers", are you referencing the church, the body of Christ?
How do you interpret Jesus' statement in Matthew 5:17, " Think not that I am come to destroy the law or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill."?
It is my understanding that the Old testament is divide into 3 sections:
1. Tanakh- Torah 5 books of the Pentateuch- Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy
2. Prophets- Joshua, Judges, 1&2 Samuel, 1&2 Kings, and then the latter prophets- Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and the 12 minor prophets.
3. Writtings- Psalm, Proverbs, Job, The Song of Songs, Ruth, Lamentations, Ecclesiastes, Ester, Daniel, Ezra, Nehemiah, and 1&2 Chronicles.

If a covenant is fulfilled then it no longer is in force, hence, the reason for the New testament purchased by the blood of Christ and the establishment of his church, the Body of Christ.

I am not familiar with the term "renewed covenant."

iakov the fool

So a hebrew is under the torah after the cross?

Are we believers in YHWH and have to keep even part of the old covenant, or believers in Christ, the Son of God that fulfilled the law and the prophets and are a new creation to walk in the works that Christ has accomplished. It is not our righteousness but the righteousness of Christ that has made us acceptable to God.

dirtfarmer, you are not alone in your belief that because Yashua....

If a covenant is fulfilled then it no longer is in force, hence, the reason for the New testament purchased by the blood of Christ and the establishment of his church, the Body of Christ.

....

The "Law" that the Jews had to obey for righteousness and a good standing with Yahweh is no longer in effect because it was fulfilled in Yahshua. I am not speaking about the "Law"!!!!!!!! I'm speaking about what the Torah is meant to be, that is Yahweh's loving instruction to have Yahweh reveal Himself thru the 1st Covenant, and what is Truth.