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the rapture???

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"Then if anyone tells you, 'Look, here is the Messiah,' or 'There he is,' don't believe it. For false messiahs and false prophets will rise up and perform great signs and wonders so as to deceive, if possible, even God's chosen ones. See, I have warned you about this ahead of time.

"So if someone tells you, 'Look, the Messiah is out in the desert,' don't bother to go and look. Or, 'Look, he is hiding here,' don't believe it! For as the lightning flashes in the east and shines to the west, so it will be when the Son of Man comes. Just as the gathering of vultures shows there is a carcass nearby, so these signs indicate that the end is near. Immediately after the anguish of those days, the sun will be darkened, the moon will give no light, the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken."
~Matthew 24:23-28 NLT

For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, the believers who have died[h] will rise from their graves. 17 Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Then we will be with the Lord forever.
~1 Thessalonians 4: 16 - 17 NLT

So. I was always taught that the rapture would happen, and then the tribulation, and then Jesus would return. But these verses would seem to indicate otherwise.
If, when we go to be with Jesus, Jesus will return, why would He return a second time after the tribulation? Also, the movies about the rapture always showed it as people disappearing, but these verses say that Jesus will be in the sky and everyone will see Him, then we will rise up and go with Him.
 
And he will send out his angels with the mighty blast of a trumpet, and they will gather his chosen ones from all over the world—from the farthest ends of the earth and heaven.
Matthew 24:31 NLT
 
What you posted with the scriptures definitely shows there is no pretrib rapture. Scriptures calls it the catching up to Christ.

The word Rapture is not found in scripture as scripture calls it being caught up at the last trump, meaning the seventh trumpet of God, 1 Corinthians 15:51-58; 1Thessalonians 4:13-18, is explained in these verses if you read them for what they say. Rev 14:6-20 is the precursor for the catching up of the saints that makes up the true body of Christ. This is separating the wheat from the tares or in other words saints from sinners as sinners being those who have taken the mark of the beast in Rev 13. Christ is sending the angels to separate the wheat from the tares to protect His own in safety from the seven vial judgments that will take place, Rev 15:1-8; 16:1-21.

After mystery Babylon is revealed and then destroyed, Rev Chapters 17, 18, heaven rejoices her destruction as the beast and false prophet are cast into the lake of fire. It is not until we read in Rev 19 of Christ second coming as we, His Bride, have prepared ourselves, those in the grave and we that are still alive, to be caught up together to the clouds and given our new glorified bodies as we are arrayed in fine linen, clean and white then meet Christ in the air, 1Thessalonians 4:13-18. We are then joined to our Groom (Jesus) for the marriage supper (union) of the Lamb and His Bride. Fine linen means we are now arrayed in Gods righteousness.

Rev Chapters 19, 20 we the saints of God then come down to earth with Him as Jesus plants His feet on the Mount of Olives, Zechariah 14:4, to fight the final battle as He smites the nations and now rules over them. Jesus then binds Satan for a time (I don’t believe in a literal 1000 years, but only being symbolic in numbering) as then he will be loosed for awhile to try and attack the saints of God that are encamped in Gods protection. Jesus will then cast Satan into the lake of fire with the beast and the false prophet that has caused a great falling away, 2 Thessalonians 2:3. Then comes Gods final judgment on those who have rejected Christ and they are then cast into the lake of fire for their names were not found written in the Lambs Book of Life, Rev Chapter 20. Heaven and earth are restored and the New Jerusalem is ushered down and we are with the Lord for eternity.


(Reference:)
Genesis Chapter 49; Deuteronomy 31:28-30; Jeremiah 30:18-24; Daniel 12:1-4; Matthew 24:21-31; 25:31-33; John 6:37-40; Revelation 14:11-16


(Reference to symbolic numbering of 1000) - Deuteronomy 7:9; 1Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2Peter 3:8.​

The word Rapture is found nowhere in any scripture or in any concordances or Bible dictionaries. Some people have taken the transliterate word of the Greek, Harpazo, to mean Rapture, but the definition of this word is:

1. To seize, carry off by force, obtain by robbery
2. To seize on, claim for one's self eagerly
3. To snatch out or away

The Latin word rapio is where the word Rapture came from as it means to be seized or snatched up. No where in scripture does it say we will be seized or snatched up as we are obtained by robbery. We will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air after receiving our new glorified bodies that will be like Jesus and will evermore be with Him on the last day when He returns, John 6:40. It's no secret quiet rapture as many teach as the voice and the sound of a trumpet during the last day will be very loud and every eye will see Jesus return so it doesn't sound like we are seized or snatched up from the earth as God sends His angels out to gather the saints of God from the four corners of the earth, Rev 1:7; 1Thessalonians 4:13-18; Matthew 24:29-31.


 
And he will send out his angels with the mighty blast of a trumpet, and they will gather his chosen ones from all over the world—from the farthest ends of the earth and heaven.
Matthew 24:31 NLT
That is not the rapture. Angels aren't part of the rapture. The angels gather the elect AFTER the rapture, just before the bowls of God's judgment are poured out. Most of them are Jews:

45 "And he shall plant the tents of his palace between the seas and the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and no one will help him.
NKJ Daniel 12:1 "At that time Michael shall stand up, The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people; And there shall be a time of trouble, Such as never was since there was a nation, Even to that time. And at that time your people shall be delivered, Every one who is found written in the book. (Dan. 11:45-12:1 NKJ)

Then the prophecy telescopes to Judgment Day in Daniel 12:3.


Here is the rapture:

14 Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and on the cloud sat One like the Son of Man, having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle.
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, "Thrust in Your sickle and reap, for the time has come for You to reap, for the harvest of the earth is ripe."
16 So He who sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped.
(Rev. 14:14-16 NKJ)

Although Daniel gives the days after the abomination is set up, when the rapture will happen, we cannot know the day or hour because we can't be certain if these days of symbolic or literal, or the precise day the "end time calendar" begins:

11 "And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days.
12 "Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days. (Dan. 12:11-12 NKJ)
 
This is the catching up of the saints of God as in those who are still alive at His coming and those who are in the grave it happens on the last day when Christ returns for His Bride. There are more scriptures, but reading these ones we can clearly see that what some call the "Rapture", which that word is not found in scripture as it's called being "caught up", that this takes place on the last day when Christ returns.



Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

1Cor 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

There are more scriptures, but reading these ones we can clearly see that what some call the "Rapture", which that word is not found in scripture as it's called being "caught up", that this takes place on the last day when Christ returns.
 
"Then if anyone tells you, 'Look, here is the Messiah,' or 'There he is,' don't believe it. For false messiahs and false prophets will rise up and perform great signs and wonders so as to deceive, if possible, even God's chosen ones. See, I have warned you about this ahead of time.

"So if someone tells you, 'Look, the Messiah is out in the desert,' don't bother to go and look. Or, 'Look, he is hiding here,' don't believe it! For as the lightning flashes in the east and shines to the west, so it will be when the Son of Man comes. Just as the gathering of vultures shows there is a carcass nearby, so these signs indicate that the end is near. Immediately after the anguish of those days, the sun will be darkened, the moon will give no light, the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken."
~Matthew 24:23-28 NLT

For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, the believers who have died[h] will rise from their graves. 17 Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Then we will be with the Lord forever.
~1 Thessalonians 4: 16 - 17 NLT

So. I was always taught that the rapture would happen, and then the tribulation, and then Jesus would return. But these verses would seem to indicate otherwise.
If, when we go to be with Jesus, Jesus will return, why would He return a second time after the tribulation? Also, the movies about the rapture always showed it as people disappearing, but these verses say that Jesus will be in the sky and everyone will see Him, then we will rise up and go with Him.
That one is not the rapture of BOC, must differentiate between rapture and second coming of Jesus
 
So. I was always taught that the rapture would happen, and then the tribulation, and then Jesus would return. But these verses would seem to indicate otherwise.
If, when we go to be with Jesus, Jesus will return, why would He return a second time after the tribulation? Also, the movies about the rapture always showed it as people disappearing, but these verses say that Jesus will be in the sky and everyone will see Him, then we will rise up and go with Him.
I too, was taught the saints would be raptured away so they would never experience the tribulation, while the ones left behind were given seven yrs., to repent and be saved. Not so, as I learned latter in life after studying the scriptures for myself.

By no means believe anything biblical from Holly Woods perspective.

Yes, Jesus will be seen in the sky and everyone will see Him, then we will rise up and go with Him.

Jesus will return to earth after He comes the second time to gather up the saints. However, there is a literal thousand year interval. He returns with the saints inside the Holy City, to pass judgement upon the wicked whom He will resurrect in the second resurrection. (Rev.20) Jesus will reveal to each lost person their life's history and why they must suffer death in the lake of fire/hell. Then fire will rein down from heaven and devour them and the devil and his angles as well.

When the fire turns the wicked to ashes and the fire goes out, the earth will be cleansed of sin. Then God will recreate it as it was before sin, and the saint will receive it as an inheritance.
 
"Then if anyone tells you, 'Look, here is the Messiah,' or 'There he is,' don't believe it. For false messiahs and false prophets will rise up and perform great signs and wonders so as to deceive, if possible, even God's chosen ones. See, I have warned you about this ahead of time.

"So if someone tells you, 'Look, the Messiah is out in the desert,' don't bother to go and look. Or, 'Look, he is hiding here,' don't believe it! For as the lightning flashes in the east and shines to the west, so it will be when the Son of Man comes. Just as the gathering of vultures shows there is a carcass nearby, so these signs indicate that the end is near. Immediately after the anguish of those days, the sun will be darkened, the moon will give no light, the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken."
~Matthew 24:23-28 NLT

For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, the believers who have died[h] will rise from their graves. 17 Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Then we will be with the Lord forever.
~1 Thessalonians 4: 16 - 17 NLT

So. I was always taught that the rapture would happen, and then the tribulation, and then Jesus would return. But these verses would seem to indicate otherwise.
If, when we go to be with Jesus, Jesus will return, why would He return a second time after the tribulation? Also, the movies about the rapture always showed it as people disappearing, but these verses say that Jesus will be in the sky and everyone will see Him, then we will rise up and go with Him.
The "gathering" (rapture) occurs after the rise of the Antichrist:

1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,
2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.
3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, (2 Thess. 2:1-3 NKJ)

It happens after the "man of sin" morphs into the "son of destruction" 3.5 years into the final seven year week revealed in both Daniel and the book of Revelation. He forces everyone to accept his Mark and begins persecuting the Church. Then, while the "sign of Christ's coming" is in the sky for everyone to see, the rapture/gathering happens:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped. (Rev. 14:11-16 KJV)

But here is where many Christians get confused. The Rapture/gathering happens at the last trumpet, in a twinkling of an eye the dead rise and we who are alive are changed and meet Christ in the air.

LATER, after those who realized the rapture happened, and missed it....Repent, and believe in Jesus....Just before the bowls of God's wrath are poured out on the earth, Christ's angels gather all the elect remaining on the earth:

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. (Matt. 24:29-33 KJV)

So the "sign of Christ's coming" is visible in the heavens for a time. During that time the rapture happens, and then later angels are sent out to gather the elect. Although Christ didn't explicitly mention the rapture, it could be part of the "powers of the heavens" being shaken.

The apostles link it with the time of Christ's coming, which begins first with the "sign" its soon to happen.

War trumpets (last trumpet) can sound off for a while before engaging in battle, and still be considered the "last trumpet" sounds before battle.

In the early church the "sign of Christ's presence" was thought to be "an opening" in the sky. Perhaps something like a Stargate with lightning flashing.



If you want more on this, go to my site:

 
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Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, Rev 19:11-21, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

John 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. (one resurrection, two different judgements)

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Also Matthew 24:29-31, Thessalonians 1:1-10; Rev 11:18; Rev 20:4-6; Rev 20:11-12

When I read all the scriptures of Jesus sitting at the right hand of God and these scriptures that speak about the judgement of Christ, the Great White throne judgement where God is sitting on the throne and the books that are opened, Matthew 25:31-34; John 5:27-29; 2 Corinthians 5:10; Rev 11:18; Rev 20:4-6; Rev 20:11, 12, this makes me believe that at the Great White Throne judgement God will be sitting on His throne and Jesus is there seated at Gods right hand now on His throne of glory. All (saints and sinners) have been called from their graves (one resurrection) and the sheep are then separated from the goats as the sheep, being those of God and His Son will stand before the judgement seat of Christ as they have been given their new glorified bodies and their names found in the book of life. They will then be judged for their good works they did as being the continued works of the Lord being in Gods will and receive their crown rewards and their inheritance of the Kingdom of God. The goats being those who are not Gods will be judged out of the other books and their judgement is that of rejecting God and His Son and their punishment is being cast into the lake of fire.

Scripture never speaks of two resurrections, but only one resurrection John 5:28, 29; John 6:40, and a second death being that of spiritual dead and hell being cast into the lake of fire, Rev 20:14, 15. There are two separate judgements, but only one resurrection as all will occur at the same time at the Great White Throne Judgement then will God renew the heaven and earth and usher down the New Jerusalem.

Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him.


IMO, A 1000 years in Rev 20 is not literal years, but only symbolic of a certain period of time as nowhere else in scripture does it mention a literal 1000 year reign of Christ here on earth, but symbolic as in Deuteronomy 7:9; 1Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2Peter 3:8.
 
Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, Rev 19:11-21, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

John 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. (one resurrection, two different judgements)

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Also Matthew 24:29-31, Thessalonians 1:1-10; Rev 11:18; Rev 20:4-6; Rev 20:11-12

When I read all the scriptures of Jesus sitting at the right hand of God and these scriptures that speak about the judgement of Christ, the Great White throne judgement where God is sitting on the throne and the books that are opened, Matthew 25:31-34; John 5:27-29; 2 Corinthians 5:10; Rev 11:18; Rev 20:4-6; Rev 20:11, 12, this makes me believe that at the Great White Throne judgement God will be sitting on His throne and Jesus is there seated at Gods right hand now on His throne of glory. All (saints and sinners) have been called from their graves (one resurrection) and the sheep are then separated from the goats as the sheep, being those of God and His Son will stand before the judgement seat of Christ as they have been given their new glorified bodies and their names found in the book of life. They will then be judged for their good works they did as being the continued works of the Lord being in Gods will and receive their crown rewards and their inheritance of the Kingdom of God. The goats being those who are not Gods will be judged out of the other books and their judgement is that of rejecting God and His Son and their punishment is being cast into the lake of fire.

Scripture never speaks of two resurrections, but only one resurrection John 5:28, 29; John 6:40, and a second death being that of spiritual dead and hell being cast into the lake of fire, Rev 20:14, 15. There are two separate judgements, but only one resurrection as all will occur at the same time at the Great White Throne Judgement then will God renew the heaven and earth and usher down the New Jerusalem.

Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him.


IMO, A 1000 years in Rev 20 is not literal years, but only symbolic of a certain period of time as nowhere else in scripture does it mention a literal 1000 year reign of Christ here on earth, but symbolic as in Deuteronomy 7:9; 1Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2Peter 3:8.
Since the time of Justin Martyr good Christians have disagreed about the 1,000 year millennial kingdom of Christ. I am a "pre-millennialist" but can agree to disagree, agreeably. Peace.

Justin addressed two apologies—or, as we would say, defences of the faith—to Marcus Aurelius. They give us some idea of Christian life and faith in the middle of the second century.

There is not as yet any system of theology. There is no creed. The Christians are studying the New Testament, and drawing inferences from it, sometimes wisely, sometimes unwisely. Justin is a firm believer in the evidential value of Old Testament prophecy. He has much to say about devils, whom he is inclined to identify with the pagan gods. He expects a literal millennium. “I,” he says, “and whoever are in all points right-minded Christians know that there will be a resurrection of the dead and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built, adorned, and enlarged as the prophets Ezekiel and Isaiah and the others declare.”-Hodges, G. (1915). The Early Church from Ignatius to Augustine (pp. 70–71). Houghton Mifflin Company; The Riverside Press.
 
"Then if anyone tells you, 'Look, here is the Messiah,' or 'There he is,' don't believe it. For false messiahs and false prophets will rise up and perform great signs and wonders so as to deceive, if possible, even God's chosen ones. See, I have warned you about this ahead of time.

"So if someone tells you, 'Look, the Messiah is out in the desert,' don't bother to go and look. Or, 'Look, he is hiding here,' don't believe it! For as the lightning flashes in the east and shines to the west, so it will be when the Son of Man comes. Just as the gathering of vultures shows there is a carcass nearby, so these signs indicate that the end is near. Immediately after the anguish of those days, the sun will be darkened, the moon will give no light, the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken."
~Matthew 24:23-28 NLT
Time of Jacobs trouble
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, the believers who have died[h] will rise from their graves. 17 Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Then we will be with the Lord forever.
~1 Thessalonians 4: 16 - 17 NLT
Resurrection
So. I was always taught that the rapture would happen, and then the tribulation, and then Jesus would return. But these verses would seem to indicate otherwise.
If, when we go to be with Jesus, Jesus will return, why would He return a second time after the tribulation? Also, the movies about the rapture always showed it as people disappearing, but these verses say that Jesus will be in the sky and everyone will see Him, then we will rise up and go with Him.
That description is the Resurrection. There is no Rapture as Dispensationalism teaches. The time of great tribulation happened long ago and is over. There are millennia between that time and the second coming of Christ, which will have no signs, same as the flood had no signs.

Just thought I’d throw into this Futurist mix Preterism. Gives you all a bigger target (opponent.)
 
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Since the time of Justin Martyr good Christians have disagreed about the 1,000 year millennial kingdom of Christ. I am a "pre-millennialist" but can agree to disagree, agreeably. Peace.

Justin addressed two apologies—or, as we would say, defences of the faith—to Marcus Aurelius. They give us some idea of Christian life and faith in the middle of the second century.

There is not as yet any system of theology. There is no creed. The Christians are studying the New Testament, and drawing inferences from it, sometimes wisely, sometimes unwisely. Justin is a firm believer in the evidential value of Old Testament prophecy. He has much to say about devils, whom he is inclined to identify with the pagan gods. He expects a literal millennium. “I,” he says, “and whoever are in all points right-minded Christians know that there will be a resurrection of the dead and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built, adorned, and enlarged as the prophets Ezekiel and Isaiah and the others declare.”-Hodges, G. (1915). The Early Church from Ignatius to Augustine (pp. 70–71). Houghton Mifflin Company; The Riverside Press.
My problem is that why would God keep us here for another 1000 years after Christ returns on the last day. When Christ returns He will destroy the enemy by the spirit (word) of His mouth and the brightness of His coming, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12; Rev 19:11-21.

Where does is say in scripture that Jerusalem will be rebuilt after Jesus returns and do you really think it would take a 1000 years? There will be a new heaven and a new earth as the first ones will have passed away and then God will usher down the new Jerusalem where we will be with the Lord forever, Rev 21:1-2.
 
My problem is that why would God keep us here for another 1000 years after Christ returns on the last day. When Christ returns He will destroy the enemy by the spirit (word) of His mouth and the brightness of His coming, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12; Rev 19:11-21.
To save as many as He can.

After Christ slays the Beast and his army at Armageddon and casts him and the false prophet into Gehenna/Lake of Fire, He judges the survivors on earth:

31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.
32 "All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.
33 "And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. (Matt. 25:31-33 NKJ)

This judgment concerns all on earth who heard the Gospel of Christ preached, but did not become believers. You can't be a "sheep" or a "goat" until you have had the gospel preached to you.

Those sheep who helped Christians while they were being persecuted by the Antichrist, enter into Christ's eternal kingdom, joining us Kings and priests.

The goats who did nothing for Christ's brethren are cast into the lake of fire to join the Antichrist and false prophet:

34 "Then the King will say to those on His right hand,`Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 `for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in;
36 `I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.'
37 "Then the righteous will answer Him, saying,`Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink?
38 `When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You?
39 `Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?'
40 "And the King will answer and say to them,`Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.'
41 "Then He will also say to those on the left hand,`Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 `for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink;
43 `I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.'
44 "Then they also will answer Him, saying,`Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?'
45 "Then He will answer them, saying,`Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'
46 "And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." (Matt. 25:34-46 NKJ)

The rest of the earth who had no connections to "Christ's brethren" (which implies they had not heard the gospel preached sufficiently to incur liability for not believing it), enter the 1000 year kingdom of Christ. They are allowed to marry and populate the earth resulting in billions more of humanity to enter God's Kingdom.


If anyone begins sinning during Christ's millennial kingdom he is cast into the lake of fire, "accursed":

18 But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create; For behold, I create Jerusalem as a rejoicing, And her people a joy.
19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem, And joy in My people; The voice of weeping shall no longer be heard in her, Nor the voice of crying.
20 "No more shall an infant from there live but a few days, Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days; For the child shall die one hundred years old, But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed.
21 They shall build houses and inhabit them; They shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
22 They shall not build and another inhabit; They shall not plant and another eat; For as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of My people, And My elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labor in vain, Nor bring forth children for trouble; For they shall be the descendants of the blessed of the LORD, And their offspring with them.
24 "It shall come to pass That before they call, I will answer; And while they are still speaking, I will hear.
25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, The lion shall eat straw like the ox, And dust shall be the serpent's food. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain," Says the LORD. (Isa. 65:18-25 NKJ)

Then Satan is let out of his prison to again tempt mankind to rebel, and many will because they hate light, holiness, and crave evil. These will attack Jerusalem and God will destroy them:

7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison
8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea.
9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. (Rev. 20:7-10 NKJ)

So billions more will enter God's Kingdom because of the Millennial reign of Christ.

Christians who are raptured during Christ's parousia and all the martyrs take part in the first resurrection and join us Christians who died before Christ's return, to serve in Christ's millennial kingdom as kings and priests and we will convert many:

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. (Rev. 20:4-6 NKJ)

So AFTER the 1000 year Kingdom the Great White Throne Judgment of all who ever lived, occurs:

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.
14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. (Rev. 20:11-15 NKJ)

Billions more are saved because only those who refused to repent in hell and believe in Jesus are not found written in the book of life, and so cast into the lake of fire.


Only then, after God has completely separated the wheat from the chaff, will the present earth and heavens pass away in a fervent heat, and the New Heaven and New Earth are created.

Then New Jerusalem comes down from heaven and God dwells with man on Earth:

1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.
2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.
4 "And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away."
5 Then He who sat on the throne said, "Behold, I make all things new." And He said to me, "Write, for these words are true and faithful."
(Rev. 21:1-5 NKJ)
 
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Christians who are raptured during Christ's parousia and all the martyrs take part in the first resurrection and join us Christians who died before Christ's return, to serve in Christ's millennial kingdom as kings and priests and we will convert many:
There are not two resurrections, but there are two judgements that will occur when Christ returns. Christ returns on the last day and will make an end of all unrighteousness for at that time the door of salvation will be closed forever. No second chances.

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Many look for a physical kingdom here on earth and read into Rev 20 that Christ will reign for a thousand years here on earth with His saints, but truth is that Christ has always reigned with God from before the foundation of the world and for all eternity, John 1:1-4; 1Peter 1:18-23. It was Satan's pride that caused the nations to sin against God as Satan ruled evil over the nations, Isaiah 14:12-15; Ezekiel 28:13-17, but yet the nations have always been Gods kingdoms as in the end of days He will separate the sheep from the goats/wheat from the tares. In Rev 11:14-19 the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign forever. What this means is that Gods longsuffering and patience will come to an end, 2 Peter 3:9, 10, as His great wrath is poured out on the earth. All His enemies will become His footstool, then will He send Christ and His army of angels to destroy all that is an abomination to Him casting it all into the lake of fire. Jesus will at that time establish His kingdom here on earth as God makes new the heaven and earth ushering down the new Jerusalem as we will then be with the Lord forever, Luke 19:12; 1Corinthians 15:20-26; 2 Peter 3:10; Colossians 1:13; John 18:36, Rev 21:1.

I do not believe in a literal 1000 year reign of Christ when He binds Satan, but it being figurative in its numbering as in Deuteronomy 7:9; 1Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2Peter 3:8. I believe at this time of Satan being bound the events of John 5:28, 29, 1 Corinthians 15:51-57; and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 will occur quickly as there is only one resurrection, but two separate judgements. All who are in their graves will hear the voice of Christ to rise as we who are of Christ, alive and in the grave, will be caught up and gathered to Him and will then be judged and given our rewards, 2 Corinthians 5:10, 11. Those of the second death, Revelation 2:11, 20:6, who have rejected Christ will be judged at the Great White Throne judgment as their names are not found in the Lamb's Book of Life. They are cast into the lake of fire where Satan and his army that he gathered from all nations to battle against the camp of the saints, but have been consumed by the fire sent down from heaven and Satan cast into the lake of fire, Rev 20:7-10. God then proceeds to renew the heaven and earth and ushers down the New Jerusalem where we will be with the Lord for all eternity.
 
"Then if anyone tells you, 'Look, here is the Messiah,' or 'There he is,' don't believe it. For false messiahs and false prophets will rise up and perform great signs and wonders so as to deceive, if possible, even God's chosen ones. See, I have warned you about this ahead of time.

"So if someone tells you, 'Look, the Messiah is out in the desert,' don't bother to go and look. Or, 'Look, he is hiding here,' don't believe it! For as the lightning flashes in the east and shines to the west, so it will be when the Son of Man comes. Just as the gathering of vultures shows there is a carcass nearby, so these signs indicate that the end is near. Immediately after the anguish of those days, the sun will be darkened, the moon will give no light, the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken."
~Matthew 24:23-28 NLT

For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, the believers who have died[h] will rise from their graves. 17 Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Then we will be with the Lord forever.
~1 Thessalonians 4: 16 - 17 NLT

So. I was always taught that the rapture would happen, and then the tribulation, and then Jesus would return. But these verses would seem to indicate otherwise.
If, when we go to be with Jesus, Jesus will return, why would He return a second time after the tribulation? Also, the movies about the rapture always showed it as people disappearing, but these verses say that Jesus will be in the sky and everyone will see Him, then we will rise up and go with Him.
Apparently like you, I came to Christianity (50+ years ago) via a tradition that caused me to think a pre-Trib Rapture was Christianity 101, something that all Christians believed. Now, having studied the issue to death, I don't believe the Rapture is biblical at all - except in the sense of believers being caught up with Christ at the Second Coming, if you take those verses literally and want to call that a Rapture.

I think a pre-Trib (or mid-Trib) Rapture is a very convoluted, largely manmade concept. Whenever possible, I would prefer to look to Jesus for my theology rather than Paul or (especially) Revelation. It seems pretty clear to me that Jesus was talking about one definitive Second Coming.

That being said, I do listen every weekend to "Understanding the Times," where Jan Markell and her guests are focused almost entirely on a pre-Trib Rapture. I always tell my wife "I'm going to listen to the Rapture Lady now" and find it entertaining, albeit slightly bewildering.

If you're interested at a more scholarly level, I can recommend Three Views on the Rapture: Pretribulation, Prewrath, or Posttribulation, part of the Counterpoints series. All of the "multi-view" books, of which there are many, are excellent. They also show that really first-class Bible scholars can hold very different views on key issues without screaming and ranting at each other.
 
There are not two resurrections
I can't treat every text you cite right now, don't have the time. I'll focus on the foundation of our difference, whether there is more than one resurrection:

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. (Rev. 20:4-6 NKJ)

This is said to be "the first resurrection", that implies there are more to follow.

Although the context "And I saw" gives the impression this event happens after Satan is bound in the bottomless pit, a study of "and I saw" only indicates this is a different scene, without necessarily meaning it happened next in time.

Like the movie "Pulp Fiction" where new scenes sometimes shows events that happened in the past, I believe the "first resurrection" happens at the time of the Rapture, when all the dead in Christ are raised:

51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed--
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (1 Cor. 15:51-52 NKJ)

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. (1 Thess. 4:15-17 NKJ)

The First Resurrection happens just before the bowls of God's wrath are poured out, AFTER the Beast's turns on the Harlot Babylon and she is burned with fire, and he focus' on persecuting the Church:

8 And another angel followed, saying, "Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she has made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication."

9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand,
10 "he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
11 "And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
13 Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, "Write:`Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.'" "Yes," says the Spirit, "that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them."

14 Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and on the cloud sat One like the Son of Man, having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle.
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, "Thrust in Your sickle and reap, for the time has come for You to reap, for the harvest of the earth is ripe."
16 So He who sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped. (Rev. 14:8-16 NKJ)


THAT is the first resurrection. All the Christian dead rise.

A thousand years later the final Judgment occurs, and then all the dead are raised.

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.
14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
(Rev. 20:11-15 NKJ)


I understand this revelation as literal events, not symbolic of other things. Therefore it is impossible for me not to believe in "first resurrection" implies at least a "second resurrection" that occurs apart and distinct from it.
 
I can't treat every text you cite right now, don't have the time. I'll focus on the foundation of our difference, whether there is more than one resurrection:

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. (Rev. 20:4-6 NKJ)

This is said to be "the first resurrection", that implies there are more to follow.

Although the context "And I saw" gives the impression this event happens after Satan is bound in the bottomless pit, a study of "and I saw" only indicates this is a different scene, without necessarily meaning it happened next in time.

Like the movie "Pulp Fiction" where new scenes sometimes shows events that happened in the past, I believe the "first resurrection" happens at the time of the Rapture, when all the dead in Christ are raised:

51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed--
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (1 Cor. 15:51-52 NKJ)

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. (1 Thess. 4:15-17 NKJ)

The First Resurrection happens just before the bowls of God's wrath are poured out, AFTER the Beast's turns on the Harlot Babylon and she is burned with fire, and he focus' on persecuting the Church:

8 And another angel followed, saying, "Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she has made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication."

9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand,
10 "he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
11 "And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
13 Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, "Write:`Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.'" "Yes," says the Spirit, "that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them."

14 Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and on the cloud sat One like the Son of Man, having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle.
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, "Thrust in Your sickle and reap, for the time has come for You to reap, for the harvest of the earth is ripe."
16 So He who sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped. (Rev. 14:8-16 NKJ)


THAT is the first resurrection. All the Christian dead rise.

A thousand years later the final Judgment occurs, and then all the dead are raised.

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.
14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
(Rev. 20:11-15 NKJ)


I understand this revelation as literal events, not symbolic of other things. Therefore it is impossible for me not to believe in "first resurrection" implies at least a "second resurrection" that occurs apart and distinct from it.
If you can not take the time to read what I posted then it only becomes a one sided conversation and a waste of my time.

You have a great day.
 
If you can not take the time to read what I posted then it only becomes a one sided conversation and a waste of my time.

You have a great day.
I read it, don't have the time to address it all now. But clearly, if there is more than one resurrection, everything you said in that post is either inaccurate, or wrong.

As Scripture clearly states there is a "first resurrection", the fact there is more than one resurrection is established by implication, elementary logic.

For something to be "first", there must be a "second" or more also.

Too bad readers won't get to see how you answer that fundamental flaw in your position.
 
John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

One resurrection, but two separate judgements.

Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

One gathering of those in the grave and those still alive at His coming on the last day.
I can't treat every text you cite right now, don't have the time. I'll focus on the foundation of our difference, whether there is more than one resurrection:

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. (Rev. 20:4-6 NKJ)

This is said to be "the first resurrection", that implies there are more to follow.

Although the context "And I saw" gives the impression this event happens after Satan is bound in the bottomless pit, a study of "and I saw" only indicates this is a different scene, without necessarily meaning it happened next in time.

Like the movie "Pulp Fiction" where new scenes sometimes shows events that happened in the past, I believe the "first resurrection" happens at the time of the Rapture, when all the dead in Christ are raised:

51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed--
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (1 Cor. 15:51-52 NKJ)

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. (1 Thess. 4:15-17 NKJ)

The First Resurrection happens just before the bowls of God's wrath are poured out, AFTER the Beast's turns on the Harlot Babylon and she is burned with fire, and he focus' on persecuting the Church:

8 And another angel followed, saying, "Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she has made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication."

9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand,
10 "he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
11 "And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
13 Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, "Write:`Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.'" "Yes," says the Spirit, "that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them."

14 Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and on the cloud sat One like the Son of Man, having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle.
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, "Thrust in Your sickle and reap, for the time has come for You to reap, for the harvest of the earth is ripe."
16 So He who sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped. (Rev. 14:8-16 NKJ)


THAT is the first resurrection. All the Christian dead rise.

A thousand years later the final Judgment occurs, and then all the dead are raised.

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.
14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
(Rev. 20:11-15 NKJ)


I understand this revelation as literal events, not symbolic of other things. Therefore it is impossible for me not to believe in "first resurrection" implies at least a "second resurrection" that occurs apart and distinct from it.
Sorry, but none of those scriptures say anything about two separate resurrections.
 
I read it, don't have the time to address it all now. But clearly, if there is more than one resurrection, everything you said in that post is either inaccurate, or wrong.

As Scripture clearly states there is a "first resurrection", the fact there is more than one resurrection is established by implication, elementary logic.

For something to be "first", there must be a "second" or more also.

Too bad readers won't get to see how you answer that fundamental flaw in your position.
Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him.

Notice that this verse says every eye will see Him, even those that pierced Him. This would mean that all who are dead will be resurrected at the same time when Christ returns for at that time He will separate the sheep from the goats setting the sheep on His right hand and the goats on His left hand, Matthew 25:31-46. The one and only resurrection of the dead only happens when Christ returns on the last day, not during a 1000 year reign.

IMO, 1000 years in Rev 20 is not literal years, but only symbolic of a certain period of time as nowhere else in scripture does it mention a literal 1000 year reign of Christ here on earth, but symbolic as in Deuteronomy 7:9; 1Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2Peter 3:8.

Revelation is as much symbolic as it is literal in the visions given to John about the end of days.
 
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