The threat of Eternal Punishment for accepting the Mark implies less than eternal punishment exists for lesser sins

[Alfred Persson]

Eternal Punishment for all who worship the Beast, or accept his mark:

9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand,
10 "he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
11 "And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name." (Rev. 14:9-11 NKJ)


The promise of Eternal Punishment for worshipping the Beast implies "less than eternal punishment" exists for lesser sins, otherwise the threat has no meaning.

If all are eternally punished anyway, regardless whether they worship the beast or not, the threat has no meaning.

Therefore, eternal punishment for all sinners isn't what the Bible teaches.

When “Death and Hades” are cast into the lake of fire” they are destroyed (1 Cor. 15:26), but the Devil, Beast and False Prophet receive eternal torment (Rev. 20:10).

These different fates require the symbolism of a consuming fire that cannot be quenched (Isa. 66:24; Mk. 9:44, 46 48) is not pertinent to the duration of whatever is cast into it; Whatever is cast in can be immediately destroyed or endure for an undetermined period of time. Their lot or destiny, "their part” (3313 μέρος meros, Re. 21:8) of "eternity" in the lake of fire, is “according to their works” (Rev. 20:12), in proportion to their deeds.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Eternal Punishment for all who worship the Beast, or accept his mark:

9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand,
10 "he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
11 "And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name." (Rev. 14:9-11 NKJ)
The promise of Eternal Punishment for worshipping the Beast implies "less than eternal punishment" exists for lesser sins, otherwise the threat has no meaning.

If all are eternally punished anyway, regardless whether they worship the beast or not, the threat has no meaning.

Therefore, eternal punishment for all sinners isn't what the Bible teaches.

When “Death and Hades” are cast into the lake of fire” they are destroyed (1 Cor. 15:26), but the Devil, Beast and False Prophet receive eternal torment (Rev. 20:10).

These different fates require the symbolism of a consuming fire that cannot be quenched (Isa. 66:24; Mk. 9:44, 46 48) is not pertinent to the duration of whatever is cast into it; Whatever is cast in can be immediately destroyed or endure for an undetermined period of time. Their lot or destiny, "their part” (3313 μέρος meros, Re. 21:8) of "eternity" in the lake of fire, is “according to their works” (Rev. 20:12), in proportion to their deeds.

Recalculating.
You need to address the level of eternal punishment , prior to attempting to omitt eternity altogether.
First things first.
You need first to recognize that Jesus taught that the rewards of the saved in heaven will be to
each individual in accordance to how faithful they were using the gift given to them to the soul-saving of others on earth.
The immensity of eternity going forward being the same for all .
The distribution of the torments of hell being no different in their being distributed according the evil practiced
The actions of the damned will determine their specific level of torment .
Their "reward" if you will .
But all will be tormented .
Eternally.
Adolf Hitler will be rated a level of eternal torment significantly worse than someone who denied Christ and His Substitutionary sacrifice on Calvey .
Jesus did not say that for all those in hell it would be better if a millstone were tied around their neck and they were thrown into the sea , he reserved that specific level of horror for who savage children.
How appropriate of our Lord , wouldn't you say ?

Luke 17:2
It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Recalculating.
You need to address the level of eternal punishment , prior to attempting to omitt eternity altogether.
First things first.
You need first to recognize that Jesus taught that the rewards of the saved in heaven will be to
each individual in accordance to how faithful they were using the gift given to them to the soul-saving of others on earth.
The immensity of eternity going forward being the same for all .
The distribution of the torments of hell being no different in their being distributed according the evil practiced
The actions of the damned will determine their specific level of torment .
Their "reward" if you will .
But all will be tormented .
Eternally.
Adolf Hitler will be rated a level of eternal torment significantly worse than someone who denied Christ and His Substitutionary sacrifice on Calvey .
Jesus did not say that for all those in hell it would be better if a millstone were tied around their neck and they were thrown into the sea , he reserved that specific level of horror for who savage children.
How appropriate of our Lord , wouldn't you say ?

Luke 17:2
It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

This precise Context puts forth a simple proposition:

"If anyone worships the beast and his image" they get "the wrath of God...poured out full strength...their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night." (Rev. 14:9-11 NKJ)

Your point would be valid if the text only read: Worship Beast, get wrath of God full strength.

But it doesn't, it adds "forever and ever with no rest day or night".

Therefore, the threat of "forever" punishment requires "less than forever" punishment must exist, or the threat has no meaning.

Less punishment for less sin follows a principle set by Christ:

47 "And that servant who knew his master's will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 "But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more. (Lk. 12:47-48 NKJ)

 

[Consecrated Life]

This precise Context puts forth a simple proposition:

"If anyone worships the beast and his image" they get "the wrath of God...poured out full strength...their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night." (Rev. 14:9-11 NKJ)

Your point would be valid if the text only read: Worship Beast, get wrath of God full strength.

But it doesn't, it adds "forever and ever with no rest day or night".

Therefore, the threat of "forever" punishment requires "less than forever" punishment must exist, or the threat has no meaning.

Less punishment for less sin follows a principle set by Christ:

47 "And that servant who knew his master's will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 "But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more. (Lk. 12:47-48 NKJ)

So how do these lesser punished get themselves out of the lake of fire after being cast in it ?
They certainly don't climb out on their own .

Rev 20:15
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Who Me]

If all are eternally punished anyway, regardless whether they worship the beast or not, the threat has no meaning.

Hell Is the consequence of not believing in Jesus, so being exclud3d from God's presence, separated from all that is good for an eternity is God's punishment.

I know how to avoid this and am uninterested in the finer details of what will happen to those who hate God.
I can rest in the knowledge that he is perfectly just and will do that which is right.

 

[Alfred Persson]

So how do these lesser punished get themselves out of the lake of fire after being cast in it ?
They certainly don't climb out on their own .

Rev 20:15
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

They don't. Fire can symbolize many things, including destruction:

"Therefore her plagues will come in one day-- death and mourning and famine. And she will be utterly burned with fire, for strong is the Lord God who judges her. (Rev. 18:8 NKJ)

They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. (Rev. 20:9 NKJ)

Fire is used throughout the scripture to imply total destruction EW Fudge wrote a book about it titled "The Fire That Consumes: A Biblical and Historical Study of the Doctrine of Final Punishment".

The Lake of Fire symbolizes destruction, "Death and Hades" (places of the dead Rev. 20:13) are cast into the Lake to destroy them, not to torment them. These places can't be "personified" in this context because they are places the dead rise from, just as they do from "the sea":

13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.
14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. (Rev. 20:13-14 NKJ)


Scripture says everyone tossed into the lake receives "their part" which could be translated their "part due" what is assigned to them, their "lot, destiny"

"But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part (3313 μέρος meros) in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." (Rev. 21:8 NKJ)

3313 μέρος meros {mer'-os}
Meaning: 1) a part 1a) a part due or assigned to one 1b) lot, destiny 2) one of the constituent parts of a whole 2a) in part, partly, in a measure, to some degree, as respects a part, severally, individually 2b) any particular, in regard to this, in this respect

Therefore, everyone cast into the lake receives punishment according to their works.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. (Rev. 20:12-13 NKJ)


When the Beast, False Prophet, Satan are cast into the Lake they suffer eternally:

The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. (Rev. 20:10 NKJ)

If the symbolism meant all tossed into the Lake of Fire receive eternal torment, then its redundant for John to add "they will be tormented ...forever."

Details matter. Historically the Catholic church ignored these details, adopting much pagan thought about Hades. Protestants inherited that eisegesis, defending it.

God is just. He punishes according to deeds. What a surprise, the God of Justice displays justice. Go figure.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Hell Is the consequence of not believing in Jesus, so being exclud3d from God's presence, separated from all that is good for an eternity is God's punishment.

I know how to avoid this and am uninterested in the finer details of what will happen to those who hate God.
I can rest in the knowledge that he is perfectly just and will do that which is right.

I agree, God will do what is right. All who rejected Christ are punished forever, they never return.

But as God judges according to works only those meriting eternal torment get it, those who do not, do not. Its that simple:

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. (Rev. 20:12-13 NKJ)

 

[Consecrated Life]

They don't. Fire can symbolize many things, including destruction:

For me it is better to trust Jesus as to the "precise context" of time allotted pertaining to whatever level of torment is earned.

Mat 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

[Alfred Persson]

For me it is better to trust Jesus as to the "precise context" of time allotted pertaining to whatever level of torment is earned.

Mat 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

"These" were the Goats (=Tares sown among the wheat; unsaved members of Christendom), not all the world's wicked.

The Judgment of the Sheep and Goats At Christ’s Return | End Time News

31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 "All the nations (1484 ἔθνος ethnos) will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the

endtimenews.net

That Judgment occurs at Christ's return with His Holy angels, not at the Great White throne judgment. Notice, no one was "raised up from the dead". They were survivors of Armageddon and the End Time reign of the Beast, but didn't commit to Christ in time to be raptured with the church.

Judgment begins first with those who heard the gospel, but failed to act on it before the rapture and so were "left behind":

For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? (1 Pet. 4:17 NKJ)

The Sheep had begun obeying the Gospel, the Goats had not. Its implied their refusing to aid Christ's "brethren" (who are seated with Christ at the time of this judgment), may have led to their deaths at the hand of the beast, or their imprisonment.

40 "For he who is not against us is on our side.
41 "For whoever gives you a cup of water to drink in My name, because you belong to Christ, assuredly, I say to you, he will by no means lose his reward.
42 "But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea. (Mk. 9:40-42 NKJ)

 

[Josef]

Eternal Punishment for all who worship the Beast, or accept his mark:

9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand,
10 "he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
11 "And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name." (Rev. 14:9-11 NKJ)


The promise of Eternal Punishment for worshipping the Beast implies "less than eternal punishment" exists for lesser sins, otherwise the threat has no meaning.

If all are eternally punished anyway, regardless whether they worship the beast or not, the threat has no meaning.

Therefore, eternal punishment for all sinners isn't what the Bible teaches.

When “Death and Hades” are cast into the lake of fire” they are destroyed (1 Cor. 15:26), but the Devil, Beast and False Prophet receive eternal torment (Rev. 20:10).

These different fates require the symbolism of a consuming fire that cannot be quenched (Isa. 66:24; Mk. 9:44, 46 48) is not pertinent to the duration of whatever is cast into it; Whatever is cast in can be immediately destroyed or endure for an undetermined period of time. Their lot or destiny, "their part” (3313 μέρος meros, Re. 21:8) of "eternity" in the lake of fire, is “according to their works” (Rev. 20:12), in proportion to their deeds.

Hey All,
No it doesn't.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Find me a lesser penalty for sin.

Keep walking everybody,
May God bless,
Taz

 

[Free]

Eternal Punishment for all who worship the Beast, or accept his mark:

9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand,
10 "he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
11 "And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name." (Rev. 14:9-11 NKJ)


The promise of Eternal Punishment for worshipping the Beast implies "less than eternal punishment" exists for lesser sins, otherwise the threat has no meaning.

If all are eternally punished anyway, regardless whether they worship the beast or not, the threat has no meaning.

Therefore, eternal punishment for all sinners isn't what the Bible teaches.

When “Death and Hades” are cast into the lake of fire” they are destroyed (1 Cor. 15:26), but the Devil, Beast and False Prophet receive eternal torment (Rev. 20:10).

These different fates require the symbolism of a consuming fire that cannot be quenched (Isa. 66:24; Mk. 9:44, 46 48) is not pertinent to the duration of whatever is cast into it; Whatever is cast in can be immediately destroyed or endure for an undetermined period of time. Their lot or destiny, "their part” (3313 μέρος meros, Re. 21:8) of "eternity" in the lake of fire, is “according to their works” (Rev. 20:12), in proportion to their deeds.

Define “punishment.”

 

[Consecrated Life]

"These" were the Goats (=Tares sown among the wheat; unsaved members of Christendom), not all the world's wicked.

The Judgment of the Sheep and Goats At Christ’s Return | End Time News

31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 "All the nations (1484 ἔθνος ethnos) will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the

endtimenews.net

That Judgment occurs at Christ's return with His Holy angels, not at the Great White throne judgment. Notice, no one was "raised up from the dead". They were survivors of Armageddon and the End Time reign of the Beast, but didn't commit to Christ in time to be raptured with the church.

Judgment begins first with those who heard the gospel, but failed to act on it before the rapture and so were "left behind":

For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? (1 Pet. 4:17 NKJ)

The Sheep had begun obeying the Gospel, the Goats had not. Its implied their refusing to aid Christ's "brethren" (who are seated with Christ at the time of this judgment), may have led to their deaths at the hand of the beast, or their imprisonment.

40 "For he who is not against us is on our side.
41 "For whoever gives you a cup of water to drink in My name, because you belong to Christ, assuredly, I say to you, he will by no means lose his reward.
42 "But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea. (Mk. 9:40-42 NKJ)

Mat 25:46

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Right, a separate group of souls eternally tormented at level lesser than the eternal torment assigned to those individuals you singled out as the one and only eternally punished group in your OP .
Oversight on your part I'm sure you will say .
So here we have two separate groups being assigned eternal torment of varying intensity .
In complete contradiction to the one and only category specified your OP.
Do I take it then in recalculating that you are going to allege this brand new separate category of the forsaken being assigned eternal punishment of a lesser severity , which you completely failed to mention in your OP by the way, are the final individual group being identified as eternally punished for the specific reason making clear that some will only be punished for a limited time?
Are you sure there are not more groups of the eternally punished . you have likewise failed to mention. in your campaign to minimize the horrors of hell ?
Having already missed this additional group of the eternally forsaken perhaps you should take some more to time to make sure there are no others before replying.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Eternal Punishment for all who worship the Beast, or accept his mark:

9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand,
10 "he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
11 "And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name." (Rev. 14:9-11 NKJ)


The promise of Eternal Punishment for worshipping the Beast implies "less than eternal punishment" exists for lesser sins, otherwise the threat has no meaning.

If all are eternally punished anyway, regardless whether they worship the beast or not, the threat has no meaning.

Therefore, eternal punishment for all sinners isn't what the Bible teaches.

When “Death and Hades” are cast into the lake of fire” they are destroyed (1 Cor. 15:26), but the Devil, Beast and False Prophet receive eternal torment (Rev. 20:10).

These different fates require the symbolism of a consuming fire that cannot be quenched (Isa. 66:24; Mk. 9:44, 46 48) is not pertinent to the duration of whatever is cast into it; Whatever is cast in can be immediately destroyed or endure for an undetermined period of time. Their lot or destiny, "their part” (3313 μέρος meros, Re. 21:8) of "eternity" in the lake of fire, is “according to their works” (Rev. 20:12), in proportion to their deeds.

A better understanding is that wicked spirits and unrepentant humans will be tormented by having all their shame exposed. They will suffer forever, (for their entire life... for the sins during their lives, not eternally.

The judgment seat of Christ is the great white throne judgment,

who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings? He that walketh righteously and speaketh uprightly.....He shall dwell on high
Isa.33:14-16 KJV
For our God is a consuming fire. Heb.12:29 KJV

 

[Consecrated Life]

A better understanding is that wicked spirits and unrepentant humans will be tormented by having all their shame exposed. They will suffer forever, (for their entire life... for the sins during their lives, not eternally.

The judgment seat of Christ is the great white throne judgment,

who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings? He that walketh righteously and speaketh uprightly.....He shall dwell on high
Isa.33:14-16 KJV
For our God is a consuming fire. Heb.12:29 KJV

Everlasting means everlasting.

Mat 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Everlasting means everlasting.

Mat 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

he shall serve him forever. Exo.21:6
"Forever" here means for his earthly life.

 

[Consecrated Life]

he shall serve him forever. Exo.21:6
"Forever" here means for his earthly life.

Okay transport yourself back in time say hello to Moses , ask Moses to make you a member of Jewish nation roaming the desert and the you have a limited application for a slave serving you for his lifetime.
After you finish boring a hole in his ear by the way.
However as for what happens to the forsaken of God , you still got nothing ,

Exo 21:6
Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Okay transport yourself back in time say hello to Moses , ask Moses to make you a member of Jewish nation roaming the desert and the you have a limited application for a slave serving you for his lifetime.
After you finish boring a hole in his ear by the way.

Correct and I want you to agree the term "forever" used here (olam) can also mean "eternal like God."

However as for what happens to the forsaken of God , you still got nothing ,

Nothing except how Jesus worked tirelessly showing sinners the love of God because,

Say unto them, As I live saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel? Eze.33:11 KJV

Exo 21:6
Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.

All the days of his mortal life.....this is the way "forever" should be thought of when applying torment to judgment.
After torment, the spirit of the unsaved is annihilated.

 

[Free]

All the days of his mortal life.....this is the way "forever" should be thought of when applying torment to judgment.

On what basis can you take one verse from Exodus and make such a claim, especially since Ex 21:6 has nothing to do with judgement?

 

[Alfred Persson]

Define “punishment.”

In classical Greek kolasis "conveys the notion of punishment for the correction and bettering of the offender. It does not always, however, have this strict meaning in the NT. "-Zodhiates, S. (2000). In The complete word study dictionary: New Testament (electronic ed.). AMG Publishers.

In Mt. 25:46 it refers to eternal torment. However, this judgment concerned unsaved Christians only, the Sheep and Goats in the church. They missed the rapture. The Sheep had begun living like Christians, the Goats had not. You know the rest.

 

[Alfred Persson]

A better understanding is that wicked spirits and unrepentant humans will be tormented by having all their shame exposed. They will suffer forever, (for their entire life... for the sins during their lives, not eternally.

The judgment seat of Christ is the great white throne judgment,

who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings? He that walketh righteously and speaketh uprightly.....He shall dwell on high
Isa.33:14-16 KJV
For our God is a consuming fire. Heb.12:29 KJV

I believe in the resurrection of both the righteous and unrighteous. God's love or wrath is communicated to the resurrected through the Bodies they receive:

2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3 Those who are wise shall shine Like the brightness of the firmament, And those who turn many to righteousness Like the stars forever and ever. (Dan. 12:2-3 NKJ)

For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. (Gal. 6:8 NKJ)