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The Trumps of God...

Vic C.

Member
While studying End Times and the Pre-Wrath belief, I was taught the seventh angel trumpet and the Trump of God were not the same. For it to be so, it puts us into The Wrath of God, since the trumpets are part of His Wrath. And since we believe we are caught up just prior to God's Wrath, I have to believe the Seventh Trump and the Trump of God were not the same either.

So I went to confirm this. There is not much on the Trumps of God, but I did find this...

The Last Trump

"We cannot go to the Book of Revelation and say that the voice of the seventh angel (Revelation 11:15) is the last trump. In the first century, the last trump (shofar) meant a specific day in the year. In Judaism, there are three trumpets (shofarim) that have a name. They are the first trump, the last trump, and the great trump. Each one of these trumpets indicates a specific day in the Jewish year. The first trump is blown on the Feast of Shavuot (Pentecost) (Exodus [Shemot] 19:19).

It proclaimed that G-d had betrothed Himself to Israel. The last trump is synonymous with Rosh HaShanah, according to Theodore Gaster in his book, Festivals of the Jewish Year, in his chapter on Rosh HaShanah. Herman Kieval also states the same thing in his book, The High Holy Days (Volume I, Rosh HaShanah, Chapter 5, Footnote 11), in the chapter on the shofar. The great trumpet is blown on Yom Kippur, which will herald the return of the Messiah Yeshua back to earth (Matthew [Mattityahu] 24:31)."


(Hebraic Heritage Ministries, http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/2175/)

(Lev 23:24 KJV) Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation.

(Num 29:1 KJV) And in the seventh month, on the first day of the month, ye shall have an holy convocation; ye shall do no servile work: it is a day of blowing the trumpets unto you.

According to Num 10:10, Israel was to blow a trumpet at the beginning of each month. Since the Mosaic festival year was seven months long, the seventh month (Tishri) was the last month for a festival trumpet. This day, the first day of Tishri, which was the start of the Jewish civil year, was known as Rosh haShanah (the Feast of Trumpets or the Day of Trumpets). "The last month in the seven months' series was always sounded on this New Moon Day. This made it the final trumpets' day." (Ernest L. Martin, The Star that Astonished the World, (c)1996, pg 95)

Martin further signifies this day by relying on the work of Theodor Gaster and his book titled "Festivals of the Jewish Year." It is stated that early Jews recognized the Day of Trumpets as a type of memorial day. More than our modern versions of the holiday, it was instead a day that was symbolic of the time "when the dead return to rejoin their descendants at the beginning of the year." Martin also quotes Gaster in saying that this was "the time that became a symbol of the Last Trump." (Martin, pg 96)

(1 Cor 15:52 KJV) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

(1 Th 4:16 KJV) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

It is quite possible that Paul, being Jewish himself and surely knowledgeable of the Jewish feasts and customs, was making a symbolic reference to this time of year -- the Day of Trumpets.
"The 'Last Trump' of the early Jews was when the dead were remembered. And to Paul the 'Last Trump' was the time for Jesus' second advent and the resurrection of the dead."
http://philologos.org/bpr/files/l002.htm

Heh, I am starting to find out that in order to understand End Times, you need to know at least a litlle about Jewish customs and Holidays.
 
Hi Vic,

While studying End Times and the Pre-Wrath belief, I was taught the seventh angel trumpet and the Trump of God were not the same. For it to be so, it puts us into The Wrath of God, since the trumpets are part of His Wrath. And since we believe we are caught up just prior to God's Wrath, I have to believe the Seventh Trump and the Trump of God were not the same either.

There, now I know what is going on.

Thanks.

I see the last trump as being at the time of the parousia and as there were only seven trumpets, I guess the seventh would be the last one.

However, here again I didn't develop a doctrine using the highly symbolic Book of Revelation. I used the words of Christ to develop an understanding and let Revelation add the mind pictures to the words.

So now when I look back at comments about Preterists not including Jews as much as those here, I think I get your drift. However, I don't see it as anything sinister in any way. Israel played a part in the actual endtimes as I understand them, but that role was many times a negative situation.

noble6
 
Israel played a part in the actual endtimes as I understand them, but that role was many times a negative situation.
Heh, look up the word "harlot" in Jeremiah and Ezekiel. (KJV)

Look up "Day of the Lord" in the OT too.
 
So are you saying that the Seventh trump is equivilent to the seventh-month trump, and the Trump of God, is equivilent to the trump that signified Yom Kippur, which will herald the return of the Messiah Yeshua back to earth? And that these trumps are different?

Forgive me, but its not so clear what you are saying Vic.


In love,
cj
 
I still can't express this fully yet, which is why I pasted the site into my post. What I do believe though, given this information is;

The Last Trump of God spoken of in 1 Cor 15:52 and 1 Thess 4:16 is associated with this trump (shofar) blown at Rosh HaShanah. It is traditionally the calling of their dead to reunite with their decendants. (sounds a bit familiar, heh?) The Great Trump is blown, signifying their Messiah's advent to Earth, actually, His second Advent. This 'trump' is blown at Yom Kippur.

I need to learn more about the Mosaic festivals; I can't reaaly tell you how the seven months fit in.

Hey, along with Paul and the others, Jesus was Jewish too and partook of these festivals and Holy Days. Along with everything He taught, He taught a type of Judaism, did He not? I believe we need to learn about this and learn from it as well.
 
I looked up the Greek word for trumpet in Strongs today ($8.99 at Ollies...what a buy!).

The Greek word for trumpet "salpigx" comes from the word meaning a wave or vibration. That opens up ALL KIND of inerpretation at to what the Last trump might actually be.
 
PHIL121 said:
I looked up the Greek word for trumpet in Strongs today ($8.99 at Ollies...what a buy!).

The Greek word for trumpet "salpigx" comes from the word meaning a wave or vibration. That opens up ALL KIND of inerpretation at to what the Last trump might actually be.

Ask the Holy Spirit.

All books have doctrinal slant, even some of the newer bibles.

The word trump means the sound that a trumpet makes.

In this scripture it is speaking of the last sounding of the trumpet not the last trumpet.

The Strongs is a great book to find a scripture, not always the best in all in word definitions. sometimes a english dictionay works great.

Read the story of Joshua and Jericho, When there was a long blast of the horns then the people shouted, the horns were being sounded all the time while they were walking around the city but the last sounding was when they shouted not before.
 
Vic said:
PHIL121 said:
I looked up the Greek word for trumpet in Strongs today ($8.99 at Ollies...what a buy!).

The Greek word for trumpet "salpigx" comes from the word meaning a wave or vibration. That opens up ALL KIND of inerpretation at to what the Last trump might actually be.
Good find Phil. BTW, if you don't have the book with you and need to look up a word... http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Gre ... ubmit=Find

:-D

Thanks, Vic....I use that site often, but with my 'tin-can and string' dial-up connection it's sometimes easier to actually use a book. :D
 
Darrell dunn said:
The Strongs is a great book to find a scripture, not always the best in all in word definitions. sometimes a english dictionay works great.

Since the Bible was written in Greek, I'd rather look up the ORIGINAL language, rather than take the word of some translator.
 
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