The Worker Vs. The Non-worker Who Believes

[Ernest T. Bass]

Rom 4:4 "Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt."

Rom 4:5 "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."


The workers reward is of debt and not grace. This means the worker is one who works to earn salvation by keeping God's law perfectly. One who keeps God's law perfectly would be sinless so his salvation would not be of grace but of debt.


The non-worker who believes is one who does not work to earn salvation. He sins and is therefore in need of grace so he believes in God Who justifes the ungodly (sinner).

In this context Paul uses Abraham to make his point.

Was Abraham a worker who tried to earn salvation by keeping God's law perfectly?


Or was Abraham a non-worker who believed; he sinned yet he believed in God Who justifies sinners as Abraham and Abraham's faith was reckoned righteous?

 

[Butch5]

Rom 4:4 "Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt."

Rom 4:5 "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."


The workers reward is of debt and not grace. This means the worker is one who works to earn salvation by keeping God's law perfectly. One who keeps God's law perfectly would be sinless so his salvation would not be of grace but of debt.


The non-worker who believes is one who does not work to earn salvation. He sins and is therefore in need of grace so he believes in God Who justifes the ungodly (sinner).

In this context Paul uses Abraham to make his point.

Was Abraham a worker who tried to earn salvation by keeping God's law perfectly?


Or was Abraham a non-worker who believed; he sinned yet he believed in God Who justifies sinners as Abraham and Abraham's faith was reckoned righteous?

That passage is Paul's conclusion based on his argument in chatper 3

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

That passage is Paul's conclusion based on his argument in chatper 3

Yes. So my question then is this: Is Abraham the "worker" of verse 4 or is Abraham the one who "worketh not, but believeth" of verse 5?

 

[Butch5]

Yes. So my question then is this: Is Abraham the "worker" of verse 4 or is Abraham the one who "worketh not, but believeth" of verse 5?

Well, since the Mosaic Law didn't exist when Abraham was alive that would make him one that worketh not (Mosaic Law).

However, I suspect that that is not what you had in mind.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Well, since the Mosaic Law didn't exist when Abraham was alive that would make him one that worketh not (Mosaci Law).

However, I suspect that that is not what you had in mind.

Abraham was the one who "worketh not, but believeth".

Abraham "worketh not" yet from verses like Gen 12:1-3 cf Heb 11:8, Abraham had an obedient faith, a faith that WORKED by moving from his house, land and kindred to go to a land God would show him. So in v5 "worketh not" does not exclude obedient works but excludes works of merit the worker does who tries to earn his salvation.

So verse 5 is saying that Abraham was one who did not do works of merit to earn salvation, but had an obedient belief in God who justifies the ungodly, Abraham's obedient faith counted for righteousness.


So what I had in mind was to show that Rom 4:4,5 are NOT "proof text" verses for those that believe in faith only.

 

[Butch5]

Abraham was the one who "worketh not, but believeth".

Abraham "worketh not" yet from verses like Gen 12:1-3 cf Heb 11:8, Abraham had an obedient faith, a faith that WORKED by moving from his house, land and kindred to go to a land God would show him. So in v5 "worketh not" does not exclude obedient works but excludes works of merit the worker does who tries to earn his salvation.

So verse 5 is saying that Abraham was one who did not do works of merit to earn salvation, but had an obedient belief in God who justifies the ungodly, Abraham's obedient faith counted for righteousness.


So what I had in mind was to show that Rom 4:4,5 are NOT "proof text" verses for those that believe in faith only.

If by works of merit you mean the Mosaic Law, we're in agreement.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

If by works of merit you mean the Mosaic Law, we're in agreement.

Works of merit means one thinks he can earn salvation by keeping the law of Moses perfectly.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So what I had in mind was to show that Rom 4:4,5 are NOT "proof text" verses for those that believe in faith only.

This thread will have no meaning until you tell us what YOU mean by 'faith only'.

What does that phrase mean to you? Then we'll go from there.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

This thread will have no meaning until you tell us what YOU mean by 'faith only'.

What does that phrase mean to you? Then we'll go from there.

Faith only is void of obedient works.

The maening of Rom 4:4,5 is that that worketh = works of merit trying to earn salvation.

So in v5 "he that worketh not, but believeth" means Abraham was not one that did works of merit to earn salvation, but had an obedient belief.

"Worketh" in v4 is set in contrat to "worketh not" inn v5. Since "worketh" in v4 refers to works of merit, then "worketh not" refers to not doing works of merit. So "worket not" does NOT exclude ALL works just works of merit. Abraham was one who "worketh not" yet he had an obedient belief, so again "worketh not" therefore cannot exclude obedience.

 

[Butch5]

Works of merit means one thinks he can earn salvation by keeping the law of Moses perfectly.

We are in agreement. The Jews sought righteousness via the Law of Moses. Obedience to Christ is not "works of merit" as you've termed it.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Faith only is void of obedient works.

'Faith apart from works' means a man is justified (declared righteous) by his faith, apart from obedient work. Do you understand that that is what 'faith apart from works' means to us? It doesn't mean faith can do no works of righteousness and still be able to save a person. Do you understand this? You won't learn anything about what we defend until you understand the argument properly.

Abraham believed God's promise of a son that would inherit the blessing on his behalf. God declared him righteous for believing that promise right there on the spot. The obedience connected with that faith did not occur until many, many years later, but Abraham was declared righteous long before his faith in the promise of a son was seen in what he did with Isaac at the altar.

Paul uses this as the example and illustration and how we also are justified (made righteous) by God in our faith in his promise of the Son who would inherit the blessing our behalf, Jesus Christ, apart from the merit of obedience. Justification is given apart from and without consideration for any work of obedience done, just as it was given to Abraham. Later, it is our obedience that justifies us (shows us) as having a genuine faith in the promise of a Son, just as it was for Abraham.

That is the 'faith apart from works' argument. It's important that you understand the argument you are resisting. Men are NOT made righteous by what they do as a result of their faith in the promise of a son to be given by God. Abraham was not, neither are we. But, like Abraham, our obedience confirms and shows us to have the faith that justifies all by itself without consideration of works of obedience.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

We are in agreement. The Jews sought righteousness via the Law of Moses. Obedience to Christ is not "works of merit" as you've termed it.

Why does James use The Law of Moses as the obedience that 'justifies' a man and shows his faith to be a saving faith?

This is what I can't figure out about your argument. Your argument claims that 'works' is referring to obedience to the Law of Moses, yet the very scripture your argument uses to show that obedient faith is the faith that justifies uses the Law of Moses as the example of obedience to make the point.

Explain.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

'Faith apart from works' means a man is justified (declared righteous) by his faith, apart from obedient work. Do you understand that that is what 'faith apart from works' means to us? It doesn't mean faith can do no works of righteousness and still be able to save a person. Do you understand this? You won't learn anything about what we defend until you understand the argument properly.

Abraham believed God's promise of a son that would inherit the blessing on his behalf. God declared him righteous for believing that promise right there on the spot. The obedience connected with that faith did not occur until many, many years later, but Abraham was declared righteous long before his faith in the promise of a son was seen in what he did with Isaac at the altar.

Paul uses this as the example and illustration and how we also are justified (made righteous) by God in our faith in his promise of the Son who would inherit the blessing our behalf, Jesus Christ, apart from the merit of obedience. Justification is given apart from and without consideration for any work of obedience done, just as it was given to Abraham. Later, it is our obedience that justifies us (shows us) as having a genuine faith in the promise of a Son, just as it was for Abraham.

That is the 'faith apart from works' argument. It's important that you understand the argument you are resisting. Men are NOT made righteous by what they do as a result of their faith in the promise of a son to be given by God. Abraham was not, neither are we. But, like Abraham, our obedience confirms and shows us to have the faith that justifies all by itself without consideration of works of obedience.

I use a KJV and I cannot find the phrase "faith apart from works" in it. So I am not exactly sure what verse you are getting this phrase from so it can be determined what type of work(s) are under consideration in that verse. You claim it refers to obedient works.


From Rom 4:4;5 we know:

The worker of v4 is one who thinks he can keep God's law perfectly thereby his reward is of debt and not of grace, so the worker is trying to earn his salvation.


In verse 5 "he that worketh not, but believeth" is one who does not try to earn salvation by keeping God's law perfectly but believes in God.


Abraham was one who "worketh not, but believeth".

Abraham was one who "worketh not" but we know that Abraham had an obedient belief, Gen 12:1-3 cf Heb 11:8. Therefore "worketh not" does not exclude obedience to God as Abraham had, it only excludes works done to try and earn salvation. Abraham was one who "believeth" and he had an obedient belief.


Furthermore, from Jn 6:27-29 Jesus calls belief a work.


Paul said "he that worketh not, but believeth". Since we know from Jn 6:27-29 that belief is a work, then "worketh not" does not exlcude the obedient work of believing else Paul is creating a contradiction in this statement by essentially saying "he that worketh not, but does the work of believing".


So "workth not" in verse 5 does not exclude ALL types of works such as obedience as the faith only crowd would have me erroneously believe.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I use a KJV and I cannot find the phrase "faith apart from works" in it. So I am not exactly sure what verse you are getting this phrase from so it can be determined what type of work(s) are under consideration in that verse.

Justification by 'faith apart from works'--what you call 'faith alone'--comes from Romans 4:6 and is referring to the justification that comes from having your unrighteousness removed and you being made righteous through the forgiveness of sin, not through the effort of righteous work and obeying the commands of God.

"5 However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness (by faith vs. 5) apart from works:" (Romans 4:5-6 NIV1984 parenthesis and emphasis mine)

Thus the phrase 'by faith apart from works'.

This is NOT the same argument about being justified that James uses when he says 'by faith alone'. That is where your confusion, and thus your erroneous doctrine, comes from.

You claim it refers to obedient works.

I claim 'works' means the work of trying to be justified through any other means than the faith in Christ's blood for the forgiveness of sin he is contrasting it with.

It's the difference between believing and trusting in the blood of Christ for the forgiveness of sin as a way to be declared righteous vs. being obedient to the commands of God to be declared righteous. You can't get righteousness by obeying commands. You can only be declared righteous by having unrighteousness removed through the blood of Christ--through faith in that blood, apart from works of righeousness.

From Rom 4:4;5 we know:

The worker of v4 is one who thinks he can keep God's law perfectly thereby his reward is of debt and not of grace, so the worker is trying to earn his salvation.


In verse 5 "he that worketh not, but believeth" is one who does not try to earn salvation by keeping God's law perfectly but believes in God.

Namely, believes and trusts in the blood of Christ for the removal of unrighteousness and the giving of righteousness--apart from any trust or confidence in one's own works of righteousness.

Abraham was one who "worketh not, but believeth".

Correct. His FAITH was credited to him as righteousness, not what he did.

Abraham was one who "worketh not" but we know that Abraham had an obedient belief, Gen 12:1-3 cf Heb 11:8.

We know this, but it is was not his obedience that Paul says he was declared righteous for. He was declared righteous for his FAITH. The Bible plainly says this.

Therefore "worketh not" does not exclude obedience to God as Abraham had...

As the way to be declared righteous in God's sight, yes, it does exclude work. Thus Paul's 'righteousness by faith apart from works' teaching. But as James' teaches the faith that saves (apart from works) will not be 'alone' but will be accompanied by obedience to the Law of Moses, specifically 'love your neighbor as yourself'. But that in no way means the obedience itself, that accompanies saving faith, is what made the person righteous before God. That would be an exact contradiction to Paul's teaching--besides defying the very context of James' teaching about justification and the Law of Moses.

Furthermore, from Jn 6:27-29 Jesus calls belief a work.

I have no problem bringing this down to where you can understand it by calling faith a work (as Jesus does in John 6). Paul clearly contrasts, not compares, the 'work' of believing and trusting with the 'work' of obeying commands to be made righteous.

The reasoning you and others use is if faith and obeying commands are both 'work', then justification must be by works. It's impossible to use that logic when Paul himself plainly contrasts the two, not equates them!

Paul said "he that worketh not, but believeth". Since we know from Jn 6:27-29 that belief is a work, then "worketh not" does not exlcude the obedient work of believing else Paul is creating a contradiction in this statement by essentially saying "he that worketh not, but does the work of believing".


So "workth not" in verse 5 does not exclude ALL types of works such as obedience as the faith only crowd would have me erroneously believe.

It excludes all work except the 'work' of faith he is comparing it to. How can you not see this?

Hopefully we'll get there, but you HAVE to understand the difference between being made righteous by having your unrighteousness removed (through faith in Christ's blood), and being made righteous through obedience to God's commands. Obeying God's commands does not forgive sin. Trusting in Christ's blood does. If you do not understand this you will not be able to see how faith is NOT a work in the sense that being obedient to the commands of God is a work in regard to being justified.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Justification by 'faith apart from works'--what you call 'faith alone'--comes from Romans 4:6 and is referring to the justification that comes from having your unrighteousness removed and you being made righteous through the forgiveness of sin, not through the effort of righteous work and obeying the commands of God.

"5 However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness (by faith vs. 5) apart from works:" (Romans 4:5-6 NIV1984 parenthesis and emphasis mine)

Thus the phrase 'by faith apart from works'.

It is detemined from verse 4 that the worker is one who does works trying to earn his savlation making his salvation of debt and not of grace.

Abraham was one that "worketh not" yet he had an obedient faith.


So in verse 6 when says "God imputeth righteousness without works" the works here are not obedient works but works the worker does to try and earn salvation.

Rom 4:6-8 "Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, [Saying], Blessed [are] they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed [is] the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin."


From this context we see that God either imputes righteousness or He imputes sin. Who in this context is it that God imputes righteousness to (or does not impute sin to)?

Answer: "they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered."

We know from Rom 2:4,5 God will not forgive the impenitent. Therefore one has to OBEY by repenting to have his iniquities forgiven and sins covered. "Faith only" does not accomplish this. So the "works" in verse 6 does not, cannot exlcude obedience in repenting but excludes works one does in trying to earn salvation.

This is NOT the same argument about being justified that James uses when he says 'by faith alone'. That is where your confusion, and thus your erroneous doctrine, comes from.

The error comes from assuming "works" in Rom 4:5,6 includes obedience to God when the "works" in these two verses are talking about works the worker does to try and earn salvation and NOT obedience to God.

I claim 'works' means the work of trying to be justified through any other means than the faith in Christ's blood for the forgiveness of sin he is contrasting it with.

Another error is not realizing that faith itself is a work. If faith has not owrks then it is dead and a dead faith only cannot save.

Again we know that Abraham was one who WORKETH NOT, but believeth. So Abraham "worketh not" to earn salvation but he had an obedient belief in God. So WORKETH NOT cannot, does not exclue the OBEDIENT works that Abraham's belief had it excludes works the works of the "worker" in v4 does in trying to earn salvation.

It's the difference between believing and trusting in the blood of Christ for the forgiveness of sin as a way to be declared righteous vs. being obedient to the commands of God to be declared righteous. You can't get righteousness by obeying commands. You can only be declared righteous by having unrighteousness removed through the blood of Christ--through faith in that blood, apart from works of righeousness.



Namely, believes and trusts in the blood of Christ for the removal of unrighteousness and the giving of righteousness--apart from any trust or confidence in one's own works of righteousness.

Obeying God's commands in the ONLY way one can ever be reckoned righteous.

Psa 119:172 says all of God's commands are righteousness. So when one obeys God's commands he is doing God's righteousness and therefore is reckoned righteous by God. As John said "he that doeth righteousness is righteous". In Acts 10:35 Peter said he that worketh righteousness (obey God's commands) is accepted with God.

Therefore NOT obeying God's righteousness commands is doing unrighteousness and John never said "he that doeth unrighteousness is righteous". Not obeying God's righteous commands is sin, unrighteousness, it is law breaking. And the only cure for sin, unrighteousness and law breaking is obeying God's commands.

Correct. His FAITH was credited to him as righteousness, not what he did.

It does not say Abraham's faith ONLY was credited to him as righteousness.

Again faith itself is a work and Abraham's faith had works, Gen 12;1 cf Heb 11:8. So Abraham did not have "faith only".

We know this, but it is was not his obedience that Paul says he was declared righteous for. He was declared righteous for his FAITH. The Bible plainly says this.

Again, no verse says Abraham's faith ONLY was credited to him as rightoeusness.

Are you denying that Abraham's faith included works?

As the way to be declared righteous in God's sight, yes, it does exclude work. Thus Paul's 'righteousness by faith apart from works' teaching. But as James' teaches the faith that saves (apart from works) will not be 'alone' but will be accompanied by obedience to the Law of Moses, specifically 'love your neighbor as yourself'. But that in no way means the obedience itself, that accompanies saving faith, is what made the person righteous before God. That would be an exact contradiction to Paul's teaching--besides defying the very context of James' teaching about justification and the Law of Moses.

Again, from Rom 4;5 Abraham was one who "WORKETH NOT".

Yet Abraham did works, Gen 12:1 cf Heb 11:8. That means "WORKETH NOT" does NOT exclude obedience to God but it excludes the works one does in trying to earn salvation as the worker in vere 4 does.

Your mistake is in trying to make "WORKETH NOT" include all works including obedience when it CANNOT exclude Abrham's obedience. You cannot erase Abraham's obedient belief as if it never existed.

So Abraham worketh not means he did not do works and try to earn his salvation.

But Abraham believeth. Verse 5 does not say he beliveth only for his belief included obedience.

I have no problem bringing this down to where you can understand it by calling faith a work (as Jesus does in John 6). Paul clearly contrasts, not compares, the 'work' of believing and trusting with the 'work' of obeying commands to be made righteous.

If you have no problem seeing that belief is a work, then you should have not problem understanding this:

"Worketh not, but believeth"

Since you see that belief is a work, then WORKETH NOT does not exclude obedient works as believing.

The reasoning you and others use is if faith and obeying commands are both 'work', then justification must be by works. It's impossible to use that logic when Paul himself plainly contrasts the two, not equates them!

Nowhere ever did Paul exclude obedient works from faith. In Rom 4:5 when Paul said "WORKETH NOT" he is excluding the works the worker does in trying to earn savlation and NOT excluding the obedient work of believing.

It excludes all work except the 'work' of faith he is comparing it to. How can you not see this?

Work of faith = faith is a work.
So Paul is not excluding Abraham's obedience as in Gen 12:1-3 cf Heb 11:8.

If Abraham had a "faith only", then when God told him to leave his house, land and kindred Abraham would have done nothing, just sat there and not move.

But he did do the work of moving for that work was part of his faith and not ever separate from his faith.

Hopefully we'll get there, but you HAVE to understand the difference between being made righteous by having your unrighteousness removed (through faith in Christ's blood), and being made righteous through obedience to God's commands. Obeying God's commands does not forgive sin. Trusting in Christ's blood does. If you do not understand this you will not be able to see how faith is NOT a work in the sense that being obedient to the commands of God is a work in regard to being justified.

There is no verse that says faith only in Christ's blood remits sins.


What the bible does tell us is that water baptism>>> remits sins, Acts 2:38

We know from Rev 1:5 that Christ blood>>>>>>>> washes away sins.

So it should be evident that there is some connection between water baptism and Christ's blood. CHrist shed His blood in His death, Jn 19:34. Water baptism puts one in Christ's death where His blood was shed, Rom 6:3-5. So water baptism is the point where Christ's shed blood washes away/remits sins.

So one must obey by submiting himslef to water bpatism to have Christ's blood wash away/remit sins.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Because of time constraints I only quickly scanned your post. And I see you are stuck in the same rut.

We already know and agree that righteous work accompanies genuine faith. That's not where the disagreement is. What you haven't done is shown us where the righteous work itself is the basis for being justified. Abraham was justified (declared righteous) on the basis of his faith in the promise of a son long, long before he obeyed God at the altar.

So, there's no reason to insist that true faith have works attached. We all know that. What you have to do is show us where the Bible says we are made righteous by the attached work, and not just by being forgiven of our sins.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So it should be evident that there is some connection between water baptism and Christ's blood. CHrist shed His blood in His death, Jn 19:34. Water baptism puts one in Christ's death where His blood was shed, Rom 6:3-5. So water baptism is the point where Christ's shed blood washes away/remits sins.

So one must obey by submiting himslef to water bapatism to have Christ's blood wash away/remit sins.

It's sad that this is really just another thread about water baptism.

A totally meaningless agenda to push to a church that baptizes it's members, with the exception of a couple of denominations, which I'd be surprised are even represented here in this forum.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Because of time constraints I only quickly scanned your post. And I see you are stuck in the same rut.

We already know and agree that righteous work accompanies genuine faith. That's not where the disagreement is. What you haven't done is shown us where the righteous work itself is the basis for being justified. Abraham was justified (declared righteous) on the basis of his faith in the promise of a son long, long before he obeyed God at the altar.

So, there's no reason to insist that true faith have works attached. We all know that. What you have to do is show us where the Bible says we are made righteous by the attached work, and not just by being forgiven of our sins.

Faith is a work so faith + works is what justifies.

What has not been shown is that faith void of works justifies.

You admit a true faith has works attached, yet you try and detach those works from faith and kill the faith and try and have faith only justify and again, faith only does not justify for it is dead without the works.

Abraham was one who worketh not but believeth. Abraham had an obedient belief but what you are trying to do is get rid of all the obedience from his belief. But try as you may you will never separate his obedience from his belief.

Nowhere in Rom 4:4,5 did Paul detach obedient works from faith. Paul detached works one does to earn salvation from faith but not obedient works to God.


In Rom 6 Paul said one serves either one of two masters, you serve either:

1) sin unto death

or

2) obedience unto righteous

I serve #2. Your theology has rules out #2 for you.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

It's sad that this is really just another thread about water baptism.

A totally meaningless agenda to push to a church that baptizes it's members, with the exception of a couple of denominations, which I'd be surprised are even represented here in this forum.

This thread is about Rom 4:4,5 which shows an obedient belief saves and not a dead faith only. What I posted about baptism was in response to you saying "...being made righteous by having your unrighteousness removed (through faith in Christ's blood),.."

I was simply pointing out that not a single verse says one becomes righteous by faith only in Christ's blood. It takes obedience to God's will to be reckoned righteous as Abraham had an obedient faith and not faith only.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

This thread is about Rom 4:4,5 which shows an obedient belief saves and not a dead faith only.

A dead faith can't save because it isn't really faith in the blood of Christ. If it were it could be seen in what the person does. If you can't see faith at work in a person, they have a faith (not works) that can not save them. That is James' teaching. That doesn't mean the works do the justifying. That is the erroneous, Biblically incomplete conclusion that you are drawing.

The mistake you're making is thinking that the works themselves do the saving. Even you say an obedient BELIEF saves, but for some reason you insist it is the work faith produces that actually makes us righteous before God. That is pure blasphemy.

What I posted about baptism was in response to you saying "...being made righteous by having your unrighteousness removed (through faith in Christ's blood),.."

I was simply pointing out that not a single verse says one becomes righteous by faith only in Christ's blood.

It's right under your nose there in Romans.

It takes obedience to God's will to be reckoned righteous as Abraham had an obedient faith and not faith only.

There you go again...thinking James is using the word 'justify' to mean being MADE righteous, instead of what he means, and the context bears out, that a man is justified (as in SHOWN to be righteous) by doing the royal law of scripture in the Law, 'love your neighbor as yourself'.

It's impossible for James to mean a man is MADE righteous by keeping the law 'love your neighbor as yourself' (see context if you don't believe the 'doing' of faith he is talking about is the law). It's impossible because that would be a direct contradiction to Paul's teaching that a man is NOT made righteous by works of the law. So, do you want to insist James is telling us we are MADE righteous by doing the law ('love your neighbor as yourself') and bring him into direct contradiction with Paul's teaching that we are not justified by works of the law, or do you want to finally acknowledge that James is talking about being SHOWN to be righteous by works of the law? In which case his teaching is perfectly compatible and not contradictory to Paul's teaching that we are MADE righteous by faith apart from works of righteousness.

See, you can't continue to confuse James' very different teaching about justification with Paul's teaching about justification and think you're not creating a very clear contradiction between them.

Paul--a person is justified (MADE righteous) by faith apart from works.

James--a person is justified (SHOWN to be righteous) by works.


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Justified