There Are NO Apostles Today

Rodger

Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2024
Messages
967
Reaction score
190
We see all over TV and in books the names of leaders who call themselves "Apostles" so that they can claim the ability of the Apostles in Marl 16.

Now, to be clear we need to understand what the word apostle means.
#1. “One who is sent out.” That being the case then, YES, there were more than the Original 12.
#2. The Original Twelve chosen by Jesus and listed in several places in the Scriptures. That being the case, Then NO.

In the New Testament, there are two primary usages of the word apostle. I think that we must be clear here in that The first is in specifically referring to the twelve apostles of Jesus Christ. They are the ones who were given the "sign gifts" in Mark 16 and they had the same abilities as did the Lord Jesus.

The second meaning is in generically referring to other individuals who are sent out to be messengers/ambassadors of Jesus Christ.

The Original twelve apostles held a unique position. In referring to the New Jerusalem, Rev. 21:14 says.......
“The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.”

The Original twelve apostles are also referred to in Matthew 10:2; Mark 3:14; 4:10, 6:7 9:35, 14:10, 17 and 20; Luke 6:13; 9:1 22:14.

It was these twelve apostles who were the first messengers of the gospel after the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. It was these twelve apostles who were the foundation of the church—with Jesus being the cornerstone and they were witnesses of the Life and Resurrection of Jesus.

The Scriptures tell us in 1 Corth. 9:1 that to be an Apostle, one had to be a witness of the Lord Jesus...
"Am I not an apostle? Am I not free? Have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? Are you not my work in the Lord?

This specific type of apostle is not present in the church today. The qualifications of this type of apostle were: .....
(1) to have been a witness of the resurrected Christ (1 Corinthians 9:1),
(2) to have been explicitly chosen by the Holy Spirit (Acts 9:15), and
(3) to have the ability to perform signs and wonders (Acts 2:43; 2 Corth. 12:12.)

Scripture is clear that there IS a 3 fold qualification to be an Apostle who Jesus chose as a select group of men to be His apostles and to be the foundation of the Church.

Also, please take the time to do the work and do not believe what I say, there are NO, NONE, ZERO Scriptures that say or suggest that there is any kind of Apostolic "succession"!
 
Brother......Thanks for the post but You know as well as I do that those Scriptures are not in the best originals. All most every Bible scholar agrees that verses 9 to the end of the chapter were added by a scribe and are not considered inspired.

However....When YOU read those Scriptures, and I do, and accept them as they are, did you notice that it was the ELEVEN standing in front of Jesus? "To Them"...They!

Then in verse #17....."Them that Believe" in the Greek is what is called an "Antecedent". It means that it was given to identify the ELEVEN in verse #14. THEM is the Eleven in verse #14 the original Apostles!

Useing only the Scriptures and not what a denomination has taught you, please read.........
Hebrews 2:4: “God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to His own will.” "THEM" here is the same "THEM" in Mark 16 which was the ELEVEN Apostles.

The Lord also wanted Jews and Gentiles to believe that Paul was a special apostle, hence 2 Corinthians 12:12 says......
“Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs and wonders, and mighty deeds.”

So as you can clearly see, the that signs were God-given credentials to prove that the movement was Divine and given to a specific ELEVEN men.

Thus we see signs accompanied or followed the apostolic claims.
 
You did not answer my question . It was not a hard question .
So as you can clearly see, the that signs were God-given credentials to prove that the movement was Divine and given to a specific ELEVEN men.

Thus we see signs accompanied or followed the apostolic claims.
There are others in the BIBLE that have the signs following them ! ! Your claim holds no water .

Them that believe .
Sight restored by Ananias laying on hands , he was not an apostle . Acts 9:17
Them that believe .
Stephen worked great wonders and miracles , he was not an apostle . Acts 6:8
Them that believe .
Cornelius has a vision from God , he was not an apostle . Acts 10:3
Them that believe .
About 12 men that spoke in tongues and prophesied , they were not apostles . Acts 19:6

Rodger , do you now have an understanding of Them that believe ?
 
We see all over TV and in books the names of leaders who call themselves "Apostles" so that they can claim the ability of the Apostles in Marl 16.

Now, to be clear we need to understand what the word apostle means.
#1. “One who is sent out.” That being the case then, YES, there were more than the Original 12.
#2. The Original Twelve chosen by Jesus and listed in several places in the Scriptures. That being the case, Then NO.

In the New Testament, there are two primary usages of the word apostle. I think that we must be clear here in that The first is in specifically referring to the twelve apostles of Jesus Christ. They are the ones who were given the "sign gifts" in Mark 16 and they had the same abilities as did the Lord Jesus.

The second meaning is in generically referring to other individuals who are sent out to be messengers/ambassadors of Jesus Christ.

The Original twelve apostles held a unique position. In referring to the New Jerusalem, Rev. 21:14 says.......
“The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.”

The Original twelve apostles are also referred to in Matthew 10:2; Mark 3:14; 4:10, 6:7 9:35, 14:10, 17 and 20; Luke 6:13; 9:1 22:14.

It was these twelve apostles who were the first messengers of the gospel after the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. It was these twelve apostles who were the foundation of the church—with Jesus being the cornerstone and they were witnesses of the Life and Resurrection of Jesus.

The Scriptures tell us in 1 Corth. 9:1 that to be an Apostle, one had to be a witness of the Lord Jesus...
"Am I not an apostle? Am I not free? Have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? Are you not my work in the Lord?

This specific type of apostle is not present in the church today. The qualifications of this type of apostle were: .....
(1) to have been a witness of the resurrected Christ (1 Corinthians 9:1),
(2) to have been explicitly chosen by the Holy Spirit (Acts 9:15), and
(3) to have the ability to perform signs and wonders (Acts 2:43; 2 Corth. 12:12.)

Scripture is clear that there IS a 3 fold qualification to be an Apostle who Jesus chose as a select group of men to be His apostles and to be the foundation of the Church.

Also, please take the time to do the work and do not believe what I say, there are NO, NONE, ZERO Scriptures that say or suggest that there is any kind of Apostolic "succession"!

And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;
Ephesians 4:11-13

  • He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints

So which one of these ministry gifts did the Lord do away with?

Apostle?
Prophet?
Evangelist?
Pastor?
Teacher?

These were given to the body of Christ to equip the saints.

Which ones did the Lord do away with?
 
And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;
Ephesians 4:11-13

  • He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints

So which one of these ministry gifts did the Lord do away with?

Apostle?
Prophet?
Evangelist?
Pastor?
Teacher?

These were given to the body of Christ to equip the saints.

Which ones did the Lord do away with?
Apostle.....meaning of course those who self proclaim something that that can not qualify for. No one today can meet the qualifications of an Apostle.

Prophet......meaning that there are no people today that can foretell the future in that sense of a prophet who did that in times past. The Bible contain all that God wanted to say. There can not be any additions to it according to Deut. 4.
 
Apostle.....meaning of course those who self proclaim something that that can not qualify for. No one today can meet the qualifications of an Apostle.

Prophet......meaning that there are no people today that can foretell the future in that sense of a prophet who did that in times past. The Bible contain all that God wanted to say. There can not be any additions to it according to Deut. 4.

Can you show me from the scriptures where Jesus or His apostles said that there are no more Apostles and Prophets?
 
You did not answer my question . It was not a hard question .

There are others in the BIBLE that have the signs following them ! ! Your claim holds no water .

Them that believe .
Sight restored by Ananias laying on hands , he was not an apostle . Acts 9:17
Them that believe .
Stephen worked great wonders and miracles , he was not an apostle . Acts 6:8
Them that believe .
Cornelius has a vision from God , he was not an apostle . Acts 10:3
Them that believe .
About 12 men that spoke in tongues and prophesied , they were not apostles . Acts 19:6

Rodger , do you now have an understanding of Them that believe ?
The "things" done by those who were not Apostles were done through the "laying on of Hands" from the Apostles.

If you will take the time to do the work you will se that in In Acts 6:6, the apostles lay hands on the seven chosen men, setting them apart for service. Paul advises Timothy in 1 Timothy 4:14, "Do not neglect the gift that is in you, which was given you through prophecy with the laying on of hands by the elders."
 
The "things" done by those who were not Apostles were done through the "laying on of Hands" from the Apostles.
Cornelius Acts 10 .Cornelius saw his vision before he even saw an apostle ! I see NO record of any apostle laying a hand on him at all . I do see the Holy Spirit fell on them ! There was no laying on of hands mentioned at ALL .
THEM THAT BELIEVE

Acts 10:44 Context​

41Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead. 42And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. 43To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
 
Cornelius Acts 10 .Cornelius saw his vision before he even saw an apostle ! I see NO record of any apostle laying a hand on him at all . I do see the Holy Spirit fell on them ! There was no laying on of hands mentioned at ALL .
THEM THAT BELIEVE

Acts 10:44 Context​

41Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead. 42And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. 43To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

The strange thing about this doctrine is, the same people that decide that there are no apostles and prophets believe their are evangelist’s, pastors and teachers.

Either that which is perfect has come or it hasn’t.

These same people usually also believe in cessation of the baptism with the Holy Spirit, and the gifts of the Spirit, when Peter said this was what was spoken by the prophet Joel -

For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.

And on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy.
I will show wonders in heaven above
And signs in the earth beneath:
Blood and fire and vapor of smoke.
The sun shall be turned into darkness,
And the moon into blood,
Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD.And it shall come to pass
That whoever calls on the name of the LORD
Shall be saved.’ Acts 2:16-21


As long as it’s the “last days” then the baptism with the Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues is still active, and people will see visions, and prophesy.

Signs and wonders are for today!

The day of the LORD has yet to happen so it’s still the last days.
 
One of the main criteria to be an Apostle, as in one of the twelve, is seen in Acts 1:21-22:

Act 1:21 So one of the men who have accompanied us during all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
Act 1:22 beginning from the baptism of John until the day when he was taken up from us—one of these men must become with us a witness to his resurrection.” (ESV)

That is an impossible criteria to meet now and has been for a very long time. No such thing as Apostles; there cannot be. In a very limited sense, there were other apostles who were simply appointed by the early church, in Acts, but were never included among the twelve or had the office equivalent to them. In a very general sense, every believer is an apostle, being one who is sent.

The NAR, for example, is an apostate movement full of heresy and false teachers. It's a completely self-centered movement for those who lust after power, fame, and money.
 
One of the main criteria to be an Apostle, as in one of the twelve, is seen in Acts 1:21-22:

I have become a fool in boasting; you have compelled me. For I ought to have been commended by you; for in nothing was I behind the most eminent apostles, though I am nothing. Truly the signs of an apostle were accomplished among you with all perseverance, in signs and wonders and mighty deeds.
2 Corinthians 12:11-12

  • the signs of an apostle were accomplished among you with all perseverance, in signs and wonders and mighty deeds.

Those who believe the lie of cessationism have created their own “catch 22” by which they have decreed their are no apostles, when the signs of an apostle are signs, wonders, and mighty deeds.


JLB
 
The NAR, for example, is an apostate movement full of heresy and false teachers. It's a completely self-centered movement for those who lust after power, fame, and money.

Thank you for exposing yourself as the judge of the Lord’s servants.

Here’s what the scripture says about people who have a form of godliness but deny the power.


  • having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!


But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 2 Timothy 3:1-7


The baptism with the Holy Spirit is where we receive power to be witnesses.

But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth. Acts 1:8

When you deny the baptism with the Holy Spirit, you deny the power of God.
 
Jesus Lives. Jesus is Shepherding His Own Sheep. We/They HEAR Jesus' Voice and Follow Jesus ...... it is a good day to follow Jesus today. It is a good day not to follow another voice. (run from other voices)
 
Just because there were the twelve original apostles doesn't mean they were all that is. They were the ORIGINAL twelve, afterwards everybody whom they baptized, laid hand upon and sent out was an apostle. During Jesus's ministry, Jesus sent out seventy to preach the gospel, representing the 70 nations, weren't they not apostles? Wasn't Paul an apostle?

Also, performing signs and wonders is not necessarily a qualification. What sign or wonder had apostle Paul performed? No disciple asked Jesus to teach them how to perform signs and wonders, but teach them how to pray. In fact, there has been a stream of signs and wonders everyday on the headlines, as in supernatural phenomena that can't be explicitly explained with science or conventional wisdom, but can be tied to some bible prophecy. Ignore them, attribute them to the devil or decipher them through biblical lens is our choice.
 
Just because there were the twelve original apostles doesn't mean they were all that is. They were the ORIGINAL twelve, afterwards everybody whom they baptized, laid hand upon and sent out was an apostle. During Jesus's ministry, Jesus sent out seventy to preach the gospel, representing the 70 nations, weren't they not apostles? Wasn't Paul an apostle?

Also, performing signs and wonders is not necessarily a qualification. What sign or wonder had apostle Paul performed? No disciple asked Jesus to teach them how to perform signs and wonders, but teach them how to pray. In fact, there has been a stream of signs and wonders everyday on the headlines, as in supernatural phenomena that can't be explicitly explained with science or conventional wisdom, but can be tied to some bible prophecy. Ignore them, attribute them to the devil or decipher them through biblical lens is our choice.

Paul and Barnabas healing a man in Lsytra, and people being healed by handkerchiefs which had been touched by Paul would be considered signs and wonders in my book, but the rest of your post I agree with. I think it's an assumption to automatically teach that there will be no more. The Book of Revelations speaks of both apostles and prophets, and depending on how one's eschatology goes, the whore is NOT referring to Jerusalem. If it is Rome then the apostles whose blood is found there cannot be those of the New Testament. And the verse where it talks about the blood of prophets has a very present-day tone to it. If so it is talking about prophets of God who will walk the earth in the end-times, not who once did 2,000 years ago, or 3, or 4.
 
Paul and Barnabas healing a man in Lsytra, and people being healed by handkerchiefs which had been touched by Paul would be considered signs and wonders in my book, but the rest of your post I agree with. I think it's an assumption to automatically teach that there will be no more. The Book of Revelations speaks of both apostles and prophets, and depending on how one's eschatology goes, the whore is NOT referring to Jerusalem. If it is Rome then the apostles whose blood is found there cannot be those of the New Testament. And the verse where it talks about the blood of prophets has a very present-day tone to it. If so it is talking about prophets of God who will walk the earth in the end-times, not who once did 2,000 years ago, or 3, or 4.
I think we shouldn't be obsessed with names and titles, what's most important is the message. A false prophet can and would appear like a lamb, only do they blow it when they speak like a dragon.
 
A false prophet can and would appear like a lamb, only do they blow it when they speak like a dragon.
As written , there are many false prophets. Some of them have been very popular (and still are!). Forums are unable to correct them, and often the rules of forums do not permit the truth about them, while mis-information is not only permitted, but even encouraged and promoted and protected.
 
Now, to be clear we need to understand what the word apostle means.
#1. “One who is sent out.” That being the case then, YES, there were more than the Original 12.
#2. The Original Twelve chosen by Jesus and listed in several places in the Scriptures. That being the case, Then NO.

In the New Testament, there are two primary usages of the word apostle. I think that we must be clear here in that The first is in specifically referring to the twelve apostles of Jesus Christ. They are the ones who were given the "sign gifts" in Mark 16 and they had the same abilities as did the Lord Jesus.

The second meaning is in generically referring to other individuals who are sent out to be messengers/ambassadors of Jesus Christ.

The Original twelve apostles held a unique position. In referring to the New Jerusalem, Rev. 21:14 says.......
“The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.”

The Original twelve apostles are also referred to in Matthew 10:2; Mark 3:14; 4:10, 6:7 9:35, 14:10, 17 and 20; Luke 6:13; 9:1 22:14.

It was these twelve apostles who were the first messengers of the gospel after the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. It was these twelve apostles who were the foundation of the church—with Jesus being the cornerstone and they were witnesses of the Life and Resurrection of Jesus.

The Scriptures tell us in 1 Corth. 9:1 that to be an Apostle, one had to be a witness of the Lord Jesus...
"Am I not an apostle? Am I not free? Have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? Are you not my work in the Lord?

This specific type of apostle is not present in the church today. The qualifications of this type of apostle were: .....
(1) to have been a witness of the resurrected Christ (1 Corinthians 9:1),
(2) to have been explicitly chosen by the Holy Spirit (Acts 9:15), and
(3) to have the ability to perform signs and wonders (Acts 2:43; 2 Corth. 12:12.)

Scripture is clear that there IS a 3 fold qualification to be an Apostle who Jesus chose as a select group of men to be His apostles and to be the foundation of the Church.

Also, please take the time to do the work and do not believe what I say, there are NO, NONE, ZERO Scriptures that say or suggest that there is any kind of Apostolic "succession"!

I think you have a simplistic solution to a simplistic problem. To deny the title to those not entitled, you would deny it even to those entitled, by denying that any are entitled. God has not scrapped the title, though as Paul noted, some wrongly claimed it (2 Cor.11:5,13): Paul did not use a tickbox to deny them the title. That said, I cringe when folk appropriate this term, even if the crown fits.

Behind the Twelve is the One Apostle, Jesus (Heb.3:1). This does not deny apostolic status to The Twelve, which became Eleven, until a Thirteenth was added just prior to Pentecost, ready to symbolise the Twelve-sons of Israel when the church celebrated its earlier birthday. Revelation recognises that imperfect as they were, The Twelve symbolised messiah’s New Jerusalem, his New Temple, etc. After Pentecost came other apostles, such as Paul and Barnabas (Ac.14:14), with Paul’s (and so presumably Barnabas’) apostleship being on par with the Twelve’s, and likely enough a Junia was a parity apostle. Subsequent Christ-apostles were and are simply not of the symbolic Twelve, but have walked in their shoes.

Be aware that any local church sending (αποστελλω), does not make anyone a church-apostle: Peter & John were sent by Jerusalem (Ac.8:14); Paul and Barnabas were sent by Antioch (Ac.13:3), and Ananias was sent by Christ but wasn’t an apostle of Christ (Ac.9:17).

The biblical criteria were not absolute but generally relative, eg pre-Pentecost it simply made sense to shortlist men who had walked with Yeshua, so were suitable as ethnic-Jewish witnesses (Ac.1:21 did not exclude from apostleship, Paul). Re. your list, Paul witnessed the resurrected Christ (all Christians do), was chosen by the spirit (all Christians are), and was able (as basically all C21 Christians are) to work signs and wonders. If there are C21 apostles (which I don’t doubt), they could tick all your boxes: he who appeared to Paul can appear to us. I dismiss your 3-fold idea, though noting that apostles still found C21 churches. Judas of Kerioth was an apostle who didn’t exactly found the global church, and the church in Rome was only indirectly founded by apostles, as are most churches today. But the core apostolic base of the New Israel, is our foundation today.

Apostolic Succession, BTW, is based on the idea that there were no apostles after the C1. It means that apostles were succeeded basically by the clergy, creeds, and canon, and began as a way to defeat Gnosticism. I do believe what you say, that there are NO, NONE, ZERO scriptures that say or suggest that there is any kind of Apostolic Succession. But I see no biblical grounds for denying that apostles of Christ, and priestly charismata, were limited to the C1.

I am able to offer for general use, links to my old college notes: https://e.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=XZkpidZzO5mRqrPu9HMUgYyC2iRob4SreL7, of which Pages 13-4 cover this topic.
 
I think you have a simplistic solution to a simplistic problem. To deny the title to those not entitled, you would deny it even to those entitled, by denying that any are entitled. God has not scrapped the title, though as Paul noted, some wrongly claimed it (2 Cor.11:5,13): Paul did not use a tickbox to deny them the title. That said, I cringe when folk appropriate this term, even if the crown fits.

Behind the Twelve is the One Apostle, Jesus (Heb.3:1). This does not deny apostolic status to The Twelve, which became Eleven, until a Thirteenth was added just prior to Pentecost, ready to symbolise the Twelve-sons of Israel when the church celebrated its earlier birthday. Revelation recognises that imperfect as they were, The Twelve symbolised messiah’s New Jerusalem, his New Temple, etc. After Pentecost came other apostles, such as Paul and Barnabas (Ac.14:14), with Paul’s (and so presumably Barnabas’) apostleship being on par with the Twelve’s, and likely enough a Junia was a parity apostle. Subsequent Christ-apostles were and are simply not of the symbolic Twelve, but have walked in their shoes.

Be aware that any local church sending (αποστελλω), does not make anyone a church-apostle: Peter & John were sent by Jerusalem (Ac.8:14); Paul and Barnabas were sent by Antioch (Ac.13:3), and Ananias was sent by Christ but wasn’t an apostle of Christ (Ac.9:17).

The biblical criteria were not absolute but generally relative, eg pre-Pentecost it simply made sense to shortlist men who had walked with Yeshua, so were suitable as ethnic-Jewish witnesses (Ac.1:21 did not exclude from apostleship, Paul). Re. your list, Paul witnessed the resurrected Christ (all Christians do), was chosen by the spirit (all Christians are), and was able (as basically all C21 Christians are) to work signs and wonders. If there are C21 apostles (which I don’t doubt), they could tick all your boxes: he who appeared to Paul can appear to us. I dismiss your 3-fold idea, though noting that apostles still found C21 churches. Judas of Kerioth was an apostle who didn’t exactly found the global church, and the church in Rome was only indirectly founded by apostles, as are most churches today. But the core apostolic base of the New Israel, is our foundation today.

Apostolic Succession, BTW, is based on the idea that there were no apostles after the C1. It means that apostles were succeeded basically by the clergy, creeds, and canon, and began as a way to defeat Gnosticism. I do believe what you say, that there are NO, NONE, ZERO scriptures that say or suggest that there is any kind of Apostolic Succession. But I see no biblical grounds for denying that apostles of Christ, and priestly charismata, were limited to the C1.

I am able to offer for general use, links to my old college notes: https://e.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=XZkpidZzO5mRqrPu9HMUgYyC2iRob4SreL7, of which Pages 13-4 cover this topic.
My simple solution is to believe what God said in His Word. I think that He was very clear.

The real problem was the emergence of the Pentecostal denomination where by people "wanted" to do what they saw the Apostles do. They "Wanted" to se miracles and tongues and all the other sign gifts.

Of course, they did not want to understand that those sign gifts were given to the ELEVEN.
 
Back
Top