In case you had not noticed, you have got an answer for everything.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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These Signs Will Follow Those Who Believe (Mark 16:17)
- Thread starter Alfred Persson
- Start date
As one who has taught English, your expression is lacking.
I always care when someone is leading people astray as you do.
But the style in which it is written is clearly non-Markan.
Its inconclusive, subjective. Better just to trust God. Why do you think God will reward doubting His providence to protect His word? Can't see that happening.
Of course I do, scripture fully equips the man of God (2 Tim. 3:16-17).
No weapon formed against you shall prosper, And every tongue which rises against you in judgment You shall condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, And their righteousness is from Me," Says the LORD. (Isa. 54:17 NKJ)
I'm tired of your not answering the issue I raised. Bye!
Protecting His word, but it has to be the Byzantine MSS of the NT for you. You are selective with what "His word" means.
Incorrect. I did address your argument precisely. Your premise "older is better" is non sequitur. Those mss are older because they were so corrupt no one used them. They ended up in trash heaps or ancient monasteries, unused and forgotten.
But that preserved them.
But good copies, everyone knew what a good copy was because they still had the older copies to compare. Those got wore out from use and had to be copied again and again.
So the premise "older is better" is "non sequitur", because their errors and omissions caused them to survive.
It is a fact, all the mss you prefer disagree with each other MORE than they disagree with the Byzantine, the text used by the early church fathers and all the ancient teachers of the Church.
From that evidence it follows the Byzantine mss are closer to the originals.
I should be done with you----elementary inference doesn't seem to be in your toolbox.
I contradicted (=refuted) the fundamental premise of your argument, and it went over your head as it were.
I suggest a little humility when arguing with others. Then you can save face by restating an argument.
For Christ's sake, I suffered your refusal to accept my simple profession of faith in God, that He preserved His Holy Word.
Of course He did that, why wouldn't He? Not the least meaning in God's word will pass UNTIL all is fulfilled:
"For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. (Matt. 5:18 NKJ)
9 "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts.
10 "For as the rain comes down, and the snow from heaven, And do not return there, But water the earth, And make it bring forth and bud, That it may give seed to the sower And bread to the eater,
11 So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it. (Isa. 55:9-11 NKJ)
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Never say never.
There may be reasons we are unaware of for the lack of evidence here.
It is mentioned in Acts 19, where the twelve at Ephesus did speak in tongues at their reception of the Holy Ghost.
Do you figure that was some special occasion?
Please label your ideas as "your ideas" when evidence is withheld.
I apologize for the "tone" in my previous reply, it lacks the humility that is the hallmark of true Christianity.
But your objection here isn't correct. I don't select texts or readings, I accept the TR as given to me by Divine Providence.
Its critical scholarship that selects what they prefer.
Scholars don't have factual data which can be objectively verified, they have various mss of uncertain origin and date which they use to select a reading that becomes their prevailing consensus.
Chapter and verse divisions were first used in the Geneva Bible, they aren't in the Greek mss.
Scholars split up Revelation 13:1, number as Revelation 12:18 "And he stood (εσταθη) upon the sand of the sea" or Revelation 13:1 "And I stood (εσταθην) upon the sand of the sea". Using abbreviations to identify which mss reads a particular way:
Then they speculate which wording "seems right".
Under the theory the copyist added "n" to "estathe" newer versions read "And he stood", against the TR which reads "And I stood". Why they believe its more likely a copyist added "n" rather than drop "n" is simply a matter of selection, nothing more. There are no facts proving addition is more likely than subtraction or vice versa.
I find the arguments mustered to support "And he stood" unsound, especially as it puts John on the beach with the Dragon like buddy observers as they watch the Beast rise from the sea---This conflicts with Revelation 12:17 which says the Dragon went off to make war against people like John.
Rather than select what reading I prefer I just accept "And I stood" as the correct reading because Divine Providence chose it for me when the church began using the TR in the German and English translations of the Bible. The Byzantine family of mss doesn't put the Dragon in the same scene with John. That also is how the verse reads in Greek Orthodox texts and liturgy, which descent is from the original churches established by the apostles.
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Alfred,
Thank you for your apology and I accept it in grace.
You accept the Textus Receptus, based on your a priori presuppositions as allegedly given by Divine Providence. You haven't proven it to me. You are making assertions without demonstrated evidence.
Oz
Thank you. AND I agree with the caveat, no one can prove beyond a reasonable doubt. We don't have a smoking gun. That's to be expected, Christianity exploded on the scene and copies appeared throughout the empire probably more than in Israel itself. Emperor Hadrian banned Jews from Jerusalem in the 2nd century and that drove Christians out also, for they were seen as a Jewish sect.
I can testify how much better I feel having confidence in Divine Providence. I can be like Sherlock Holmes and deduce much from the evidence, only if I am confident of the evidence. The variants in the handful of mss that disagree with the Majority Text do not give the same level of confidence as they disagree with each other even more than they do with the Majority Text.
I do not claim meaningless jot and tittles were preserved, only those that have meaning that will be fulfilled:
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. (Matt. 5:18 KJV)
In other words, missing words, changes in spelling or word order, the use of synonyms----things that don't change the meaning of the text, do not concern me at all. With that in mind, the vast majority of mss are in essential agreement and only a handful of mss belong to other types of text---and these disagree with each other more than they do the Majority Text some call the Textus Receptus.
Its consistent with faith in God His Word would become the majority text, while what was inferior would be discarded by Christians. As I think it much more likely Christians would throw away the inferior mss, and copy the correct mss for use, the premise older is better is unlikely correct. No smoking gun, only faith in God that is consistent with an elementary deduction that has a high degree of probability it is correct.
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How do you become so perfect?
AP will always deny everything that does line up with his weird theology.
But you would have to say what the scriptures are, they are the Spirit.
Ephesians 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Also to have an answer for every question, is if the Lords Spirit gives us that answer, that is why He told us to not always premeditate, for it is not always us that answers, but the Spirit of our father in us. ( if He is in us.)
Matthew 10:19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
As of course, not we who commend ourselves are commended, but who the Lord commends..
2 Corinthians 10:18 For not he that commendeth himself is approved, but whom the Lord commendeth.
Proverbs 27:1 Boast not thyself of to morrow; for thou knowest not what a day may bring forth.
2 Let another man praise thee, and not thine own mouth; a stranger, and not thine own lips.
Today's gifts are from the many false prophets God told us about rising to deceive many..
Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
I am sure that is true of the so-called "Toronto Blessing" and other things. Plus there are the visions etc. that I hear about from a Catholic man I know. But if God is true to His Word, and I know He is, then it remains true that God's gifts are immutable. I get the impression from God's dealings with Israel, that he deals with whole nations, and for the life of me, I cannot think of a truly Godly nation in the world today. So, my answer is to have faith and keep trusting.
I can tell you about my arthritic knee. The cartlidge (spelling) is broken in pieces and embedded in the flesh, caused by cross-country running. I have seen the ex-ray. It was so painful, I could hardly walk. Needless to say I was praying. The surgeon did not want to operate because I have a blood infection and gangrene could set in, meaning an amputation or even death if it spreads out of control. Anyway, as I lifted my leg to get out of bed one morning, there were two loud bangs, like gunshots, and the pain instantly went. I am beginning to walk upright again and can now walk to the shops. My muscles ache around the hips due to my changed posture, but that will improve and I managed to cut the grass yesterday. I am happy. Thank you, Lord. Miracles do happen but I was praying for a good seven years or more, so don't lose faith. I need to say, I have been taking calcium and vitamin D tablets, but I never felt any improvement, and this was instant.
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Yes, but the signs and gifts now are shown to be lying, so who wants to not take the warning, when it is many deceivers, deceiving THE WHOLE WORLD...
2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2 Timothy 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
What you say is true, but I believe that with Jesus in my heart, Satan flees away.
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