Thomas Ice - Preterism and Zechariah 12-14

[Endtimesdeut32]

One very important aspect is to read OT prophecies as if you were one of the people or people groups to whom it was written.

Example, what did Mt Olivet symbolize or remind the people of national Israel about..? What did it symbolized in Zecharias day?

Did Olivet have other names? Why?

What occurred to Israel 1000 yrs prior to 70 AD?

 

[Endtimesdeut32]

One very important aspect is to read OT prophecies as if you were one of the people or people groups to whom it was written.

Example, what did Mt Olivet symbolize or remind the people of national Israel about..? What did it symbolized in Zecharias day?

Did Olivet have other names? Why?

What occurred to Israel 1000 yrs prior to 70 AD?

Answer: One of the things is that Mt Olivet was know for was being where Solomon permitted his wives to build shrines, alters and idols to their (g)ods.
It's other names were Mt of destruction and Mt of abomination. It is where Jesus taught of the coming judgement.

In 930 bc, 1000 yrs before 70 AD, the kingdom was divided.

The splitting of the mount where Jesus took a stand might refer to the splitting of his judgement against both northern and southern tribes who continued in idolatry against faith in Christ 70 in 70-135ad. In Dan 7:26ff it says that the judgement shall stand and the everlasting kingdom takes over the kingdoms of idolatry.

It is also where the Romans camped as they came to besiege the city.

 

[Deidr]

Wanted to share the opinion of Christian professor Thomas Ice on preterism as it specifically relates to Zechariah 12-14. Very helpful essay that takes down the unbiblical view that Zechariah 12-14 refers to Jesus.

Ice-PreterismandZechariah12-14.pdf

drive.google.com

Hi, in a few words can you give me a brief summary of Preterism?

 

[Hidden In Him]

Hi, in a few words can you give me a brief summary of Preterism?

Deidr, T.E.Smith is no longer a member, so she wouldn't be able to reply to you. But in short, Preterism is the belief that all the prophecies spoken of in books like Daniel, Matthew, and Revelation have already come to pass, and that all we await now is the return of Jesus.

 

[Deidr]

Deidr, T.E.Smith is no longer a member, so she wouldn't be able to reply to you. But in short, Preterism is the belief that all the prophecies spoken of in books like Daniel, Matthew, and Revelation have already come to pass, and that all we await now is the return of Jesus.

DO YOU GO BY THAT?

 

[Hidden In Him]

DO YOU GO BY THAT?

No

 

[journeyman]

DO YOU GO BY THAT?

I believe all of prophecy was fulfilled by Christ and continues to be fulfilled by us in him.

As an exanple,

The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 1Cor.15:26

Death is destroyed as people come to life in our Lord,

whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? Jn.11:26

The "war to end all wars" is being fought now (Eph.6:12.)

When our Savior returns, the battle is over. Judgement day.

 

[Deidr]

I believe all of prophecy was fulfilled by Christ and continues to be fulfilled by us in him.

As an exanple,

The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 1Cor.15:26

Death is destroyed as people come to life in our Lord,

whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? Jn.11:26

The "war to end all wars" is being fought now (Eph.6:12.)

When our Savior returns, the battle is over. Judgement day.

I might believe The destruction of the temple in 70AD....hope that does not make me a preterist.

People put a name to everything
I could not say all prophesy because I would not know. I NEVER UNDERSTOOD THE RAPTURE THING BUT PEOPLE SAID IT WAS IN THE Bible. Well at least I never understood it how it was told to me. Can't say I studied this but interesting.

 

[Deidr]

I believe all of prophecy was fulfilled by Christ and continues to be fulfilled by us in him.

As an exanple,

The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 1Cor.15:26

Death is destroyed as people come to life in our Lord,

whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? Jn.11:26

The "war to end all wars" is being fought now (Eph.6:12.)

When our Savior returns, the battle is over. Judgement day.

But doesn't scripture say Jesus fulfilled the law and the prophets? Mmmm

 

[Deidr]

I believe all of prophecy was fulfilled by Christ and continues to be fulfilled by us in him.

As an exanple,

The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 1Cor.15:26

Death is destroyed as people come to life in our Lord,

whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? Jn.11:26

The "war to end all wars" is being fought now (Eph.6:12.)

When our Savior returns, the battle is over. Judgement day.

There is one more thing, but please don't Judge me. There was a writer that wrote about the lake of fire and that it was the people of God. It was like all the rest of the people were thrown in the the lake to be purified. So I could see your point through His eyes. But I do wonder if He was a universalist that's why I said don't judge me.

For He makes his ministers flames of fire. Another writer said what if heaven was hell for those who have not purified themselves now.

 

[journeyman]

I might believe The destruction of the temple in 70AD....hope that does not make me a preterist.

People put a name to everything
I could not say all prophesy because I would not know. I NEVER UNDERSTOOD THE RAPTURE THING BUT PEOPLE SAID IT WAS IN THE Bible. Well at least I never understood it how it was told to me. Can't say I studied this but interesting.

Much of what I learned through organized religion is wrong.

 

[journeyman]

But doesn't scripture say Jesus fulfilled the law and the prophets? Mmmm

Yes it does, but this includes his body, his church. When that's complete, it's judgement day for all.

 

[journeyman]

There is one more thing, but please don't Judge me.

I'm not the Judge and most people here disagree with how I see the scriptures.

There was a writer that wrote about the lake of fire and that it was the people of God. It was like all the rest of the people were thrown in the the lake to be purified. So I could see your point through His eyes. But I do wonder if He was a universalist that's why I said don't judge me.

For He makes his ministers flames of fire. Another writer said what if heaven was hell for those who have not purified themselves now.

I believe the presence of God is like a lake of fire and people who are unprepared to meet him will be burned,

...who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings? He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly...Isa.33:14-15

For our God is a consuming fire. Heb.12:29

...the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire... t 2Thes.1:7-8

His presence engulfs all creation.

 

[Deidr]

I'm not the Judge and most people here disagree with how I see the scriptures.

I believe the presence of God is like a lake of fire and people who are unprepared to meet him will be burned,

...who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings? He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly...Isa.33:14-15

For our God is a consuming fire. Heb.12:29

...the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire... t 2Thes.1:7-8

His presence engulfs all creation.

Hey well look at that...I was always scared to go out of bounds because it may sound like I believe in universalism....although I wonder if I do and don't know it

1 John 4:17
Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

 

[Deidr]

Yes it does, but this includes his body, his church. When that's complete, it's judgement day for all.

What do you mean this includes his body?

 

[journeyman]

Hey well look at that...I was always scared to go out of bounds because it may sound like I believe in universalism....although I wonder if I do and don't know it

I don't believe all people will be saved. I believe the unrepentant will suffer humiliation having their sins exposed by the presence of our Lord Jesus. Then they'll be annihilated.

1 John 4:17
Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

It's a beautiful thing to live without fear.

 

[journeyman]

What do you mean this includes his body?

I mean believers are going to war against wicked spirits now, as our King did and defeated them all

he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Col.2:15

Most church goers think there will be a huge war in the future between good and evil, but the truth is, it's happening now. It always has been. When Jesus returns, it's all over.

 

[Deidr]

I mean believers are going to war against wicked spirits now, as our King did and defeated them all

he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Col.2:15

Most church goers think there will be a huge war in the future between good and evil, but the truth is, it's happening now. It always has been. When Jesus returns, it's all over.

Make sense to me

 

[journeyman]

This is from a JW website,

The Kingdom of God. This is a real government in heaven, not a condition in the hearts of Christians. It will replace human governments and accomplish God’s purpose for the earth. (Daniel 2:44;Matthew 6:9, 10) It will take these actions soon, for Bible prophecy indicates that we are living in “the last days.”—2 Timothy 3:1-5; Matthew 24:3-14.

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/jehovah-witness-beliefs/

This teaching begins with error, because the Kingdom of God is everywhere and always has been. It "replaces human government" for sinners who come to faith. On judgement day, anyone who hasn't entered Gods' Kingdom by faith in Jesus will be uprooted.

Dan.2:44 shows how the Messiah smashed the gods' of Babylon, Persia, Greese, Rome and all future antichrist government.

Mt.6;10 is a prayer for Gods' Kingdom to come, and Gods' will to be done on earth, which is simply a request to reveal Gods' Kingdom to other people, which happens by teaching the truth of Gods' word (say to them, (‘The kingdom of God has come nearto you. Lk.10:9.)

2Tim.3:1-5 says in "the last days" perilous times will come, but peril has always been a part of history. The "last days" have been a long time coming by human standards.
The "last days" is really nothing more than when people come to faith and realize how short life is. From there, perilous times will come because we're at war with demons who influence the lost.
Lastly, Mt.24 is about antichrist, abomination, etc. It speaks of the rejection of God and I"m confident it's about our Lords' crucifixion.

 

[Deidr]

This is from a JW website,

The Kingdom of God. This is a real government in heaven, not a condition in the hearts of Christians. It will replace human governments and accomplish God’s purpose for the earth. (Daniel 2:44;Matthew 6:9, 10) It will take these actions soon, for Bible prophecy indicates that we are living in “the last days.”—2 Timothy 3:1-5; Matthew 24:3-14.

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/jehovah-witness-beliefs/

This teaching begins with error, because the Kingdom of God is everywhere and always has been. It "replaces human government" for sinners who come to faith. On judgement day, anyone who hasn't entered Gods' Kingdom by faith in Jesus will be uprooted.

Dan.2:44 shows how the Messiah smashed the gods' of Babylon, Persia, Greese, Rome and all future antichrist government.

Mt.6;10 is a prayer for Gods' Kingdom to come, and Gods' will to be done on earth, which is simply a request to reveal Gods' Kingdom to other people, which happens by teaching the truth of Gods' word (say to them, (‘The kingdom of God has come nearto you. Lk.10:9.)

2Tim.3:1-5 says in "the last days" perilous times will come, but peril has always been a part of history. The "last days" have been a long time coming by human standards.
The "last days" is really nothing more than when people come to faith and realize how short life is. From there, perilous times will come because we're at war with demons who influence the lost.
Lastly, Mt.24 is about antichrist, abomination, etc. It speaks of the rejection of God and I"m confident it's about our Lords' crucifixion.

I'm not of the same teachings of those who call themselves His J. witnesses.
I can't tell you if the kingdom is in the heart, but I read in the Bible that after John Jesus preached the kingdom of God. And that it was in the midst. My favorite writer says that the kingdom is where what God wants done is done.
And that the kingdom is available to enter now upon anyone who believes Jesus came from God, is the son of God,the creator of heaven and earth.
I also read in the Bible that the kingdom was not eating nor drinking but peace and Joy in the Holy Ghost.