Bible Study Three scriptures to contemplate.

[GodsGrace]

Very necessary, for truth. Jesus even asked the remaining disciples (and apostles) if they were going to leave Jesus also ...... giving them a clear opportunity to simply go away like the untrusting disciples did.
To the trusting disciples, Jesus clearly explained, and note that Jesus did not apparently ever try to get the untrusting disciples back. This might still be true today. God Knows, ......

Wow follower.
I wrote the above post over a year ago.
I still think this is the strongest "proof" for Jesus meaning it literally.
Not going to go back to read through.
So...do you agree?

 

[follower]

agree?

As Jesus explained to the remaining disciples and the apostles who stayed with Him,
Jesus told the truth as Abba Yahweh Gave Him to speak, "My Words Are Spirit (not flesh, not carnal, not temporal , not temporary, not sinful, not contary to Law, ever)
and Are Life."

Jesus could never ever, not ever, not even once, not ever approve of eating physical human flesh nor drinking blood.

 

[GodsGrace]

As Jesus explained to the remaining disciples and the apostles who stayed with Him,
Jesus told the truth as Abba Yahweh Gave Him to speak, ,
"My Words Are Spirit (not flesh, not carnal, not temporal , not temporary, not sinful, not contary to Law, ever)
and Are Life" .
Jesus could never ever, not ever, not even once, not ever approve of eating physical human flesh nor drinking blood --- that would have been utterly detestable , and an abomination, that is not even conceivable to tolerate in a life right with the Creator. Rather a terrible stench in the Creators nostrils, perhaps even worse than idolatry!!?

This is a problem follower.
We don't want to accept very clear teachings that Jesus left us with.
Instead we would rather learn from this guy or that guy...
this denomination or that denomination.

This is pretty much how it is about every topic on here.
Wonder where it'll lead us?

 

[follower]

This is a problem follower.
We don't want to accept very clear teachings that Jesus left us with.

I delight in Jesus Shepherding me. Eagerly watching for any others anywhere, even though rare.

Instead we would rather learn from this guy or that guy...
this denomination or that denomination.

He requires renouncing 'this guy' or 'that guy' / religions we grew up with. It is indeed "easier to learn from our own family or church we grew up with; but not straight and narrow nor leading to Jesus - we will not listen to any other voice! ONLY JESUS!

This is pretty much how it is about every topic on here.

Forums/internet groups are that way. Not teachable, not human, not to be trusted at all.

Wonder where it'll lead us?

No.

 

[GodsGrace]

I delight in Jesus Shepherding me. Eagerly watching for any others anywhere, even though rare.

He requires renouncing 'this guy' or 'that guy' / religions we grew up with. It is indeed "easier to learn from our own family or church we grew up with; but not straight and narrow nor leading to Jesus - we will not listen to any other voice! ONLY JESUS!

The problem here is that the early church believed in the body and blood of Jesus.
And THAT is NOT the church we grew up with.

Forums/internet groups are that way. Not teachable, not human, not to be trusted at all.

No.

 

[GodsGrace]

Have you read about the abomination of the mass and of so-called 'confession" ?
by c chiniquoy , a prst for fifty years taught, teaching and practicing the abominations ,
then he got saved and of course, of necessity, excommunicated like all the other priests saved. The ones not kicked out were summarily tortured, beaten, imprisoned, exiled or martyred.

Please post what things you are referring to that are performed at the Mass.
The priests I know have several parishes they must manage AND be pastors at the same time.
I don't know any priests that have been tortured...
except those in some countries that have executed them and they have DIED FOR THEIR FAITH.

As to confession...
Could you please explain this verse?
John 20:23
23 "If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained."

 

[Beetow]

John 20:23 "If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the
sins of any, they have been retained."

To my knowledge; none of the apostles were either judges or priests during the
days of Jesus' post resurrection appearances, rather, they were missionaries and
their information was authentic, for example:

● Rom 1:16 . . For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of
God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the
Greek.

● Luke 10:16 . .Whoever listens to you; listens to me. Whoever rejects you; rejects
me. And whoever rejects me; rejects the one who sent me.
_

 

[Hidden In Him]

Moderators Note: Those who cannot discuss denominational and doctrinal differences without being insulting of others' beliefs will be removed from this thread and potentially banned from between one month to half a year. Please keep your comments respectful please.

Thanks.

 

[GodsGrace]

To my knowledge; none of the apostles were either judges or priests during the
days of Jesus' post resurrection appearances, rather, they were missionaries and
their information was authentic, for example:

● Rom 1:16 . . For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of
God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the
Greek.

● Luke 10:16 . .Whoever listens to you; listens to me. Whoever rejects you; rejects
me. And whoever rejects me; rejects the one who sent me.
_

Beetow
I'm not Catholic.
I very much dislike Catholicism being misrepresented,
as I do any denomination.
I've taught Catholic doctrine and I know what the CC teaches.
I'm not here to defend it, but it's important to know that most of
what the CC teaches is taken from the bible.
And we should know what we disagree with and be able to express it.
Just hating that denomination is not very Christianly.

 

[GodsGrace]

To my knowledge; none of the apostles were either judges or priests during the
days of Jesus' post resurrection appearances, rather, they were missionaries and
their information was authentic, for example:

● Rom 1:16 . . For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of
God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the
Greek.

● Luke 10:16 . .Whoever listens to you; listens to me. Whoever rejects you; rejects
me. And whoever rejects me; rejects the one who sent me.
_

PS
Your reply does not respond to my question.
It sure does sound like Jesus is giving the Apostles the power to forgive sins.
So how would YOU explain this verse??

 

[Beetow]

So how would YOU explain this verse??

I would explain it like I did in post No.27

In other words: the apostle's power to forgive sins and/or retain sins was extended
to people by means of their missionary message rather than by means of their
supposed positions as father confessors.

● 2Cor 2:15-16 . . For we are to God the aroma of Christ among those who are
being saved and those who are perishing. To the one we are the smell of death; to
the other, the fragrance of life.
_

 

[GodsGrace]

I would explain it like I did in post No.27

In other words: the apostle's power to forgive sins and/or retain sins was extended
to people by means of their missionary message rather than by means of their
supposed positions as father confessors.

● 2Cor 2:15-16 . . For we are to God the aroma of Christ among those who are
being saved and those who are perishing. To the one we are the smell of death; to
the other, the fragrance of life.
_

Still not clear.
Sorry.
So are you saying that a PERSON could forgive the sins of another person?

If someone doesn't understand a statement you're making...
you would need to change the wording...
not just repeat the wording.

I'm saying that IT SOUNDS LIKE Jesus is giving the AUTHORITY to those He is bestowing power upon to forgive the sins of persons.

Since only God can forgive sins....
HOW does John 20:23 make any sense??

 

[Beetow]

So are you saying that a PERSON could forgive the sins of another person?

No, I am not saying that.

I'm saying that the apostle's missionary message contains information about Christ
that when folks accept it, their sins are remitted. However, when folks reject the
apostle's missionary message as it pertains to Christ, their sins stay on the books,
viz: their sins are retained; for example:

● John 3:16-18 . . For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten son,
that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For
God sent not His son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world
through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he
that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name
of the only begotten Son of God.

Here's another that could be considered a bounce off that one.

● John 5:24 . . I assure you: those who listen to my message, and believe in God
who sent me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but
they have already passed from death into life.

The opposite of that would go like this:

"I assure you: those who don't listen to my message, and don't believe in God who
sent me, don't have eternal life. They will be condemned for their sins, because
they haven't passed from death into life."

In a nutshell; the apostles' missionary message has retaining and remitting built
into it although they may not be the kind of retaining and remitting that a number of
folks prefer to see practiced by father confessors.
_

 

[GodsGrace]

No, I am not saying that.

I'm saying that the apostle's missionary message contains information about Christ
that when folks accept it, their sins are remitted. However, when folks reject the
apostle's missionary message as it pertains to Christ, their sins stay on the books,
viz: their sins are retained; for example:

● John 3:16-18 . . For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten son,
that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For
God sent not His son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world
through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he
that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name
of the only begotten Son of God.

Here's another that could be considered a bounce off that one.

● John 5:24 . . I assure you: those who listen to my message, and believe in God
who sent me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but
they have already passed from death into life.

The opposite of that would go like this:

"I assure you: those who don't listen to my message, and don't believe in God who
sent me, don't have eternal life. They will be condemned for their sins, because
they haven't passed from death into life."

In a nutshell; the apostles' missionary message has retaining and remitting built
into it although they may not be the kind of retaining and remitting that a number of
folks see in John 20:23.
_

I understand it like this too...
but to be perfectly honest,,,I feel like we're playing with scripture a little
and this is something that I just don't do.

The alternative is to believe that Jesus passed on His authority to forgive personal sin to the Apostles...
which is what the CC teaches- and it does SEEM to make sense.

This is how this convo started out....
Catholics do base what they believe on scripture (well, not everything they believe. Some is a bit extra-biblical).

Thanks for your patience.