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Timing of the Tribulation

K

Kathi

Member
Do any of you think that the Tribulation or "Day of the Lord" Isaiah 13:6-9;Matthew 24:21 was in the past and has already happened or do you think it is still in the future?
 
Kathi said:
Do any of you think that the Tribulation or "Day of the Lord" Isaiah 13:6-9;Matthew 24:21 was in the past and has already happened or do you think it is still in the future?
Click to expand...

Isaiah 13 and Matthew 24 are about two different times.
Unless one thinks that Persia and Medes didn't destroy ancient Babylon many centuries ago, just like the Isaiah prophecies and the Bible tells how it came about, it's in the ancient past? The Bible tells how both kings came against Babylon and took over that kingdom.
One must spiritualize Isaiah 13 to think it's talking about some future destruction.

As for Matthew 24:21 that scripture does not say on the earth, as terrestrial. It says kosmos, there is a very real difference.
G2889
kos'-mos
Probably from the base of G2865; orderly arrangement, that is, decoration; by implication the world (in a wide or narrow sense, including its inhabitants, literally or figuratively [morally]): - adorning, world.

So just what world is being spoken of here?
My world is different from your world. We are not just in different physical locations but there are different people in your world then in my world. We even have different laws which we must follow in our different locations. Kosmos does not mean terrestrial earth.
The world of the Jews was an "orderly arrangement" governed by certain laws and rules. Including the sacrifice of the blood of bulls and goats for atonement. The destruction of the temple ended this system. That was their "world."
The Orthodox Jews would bring this back tomorrow if they could. You won't find me offering the blood of bulls and goats for atonement. What a slap in the face of our Redeemer and Lord.
 
Deborah13 said:
Isaiah 13 and Matthew 24 are about two different times.
Unless one thinks that Persia and Medes didn't destroy ancient Babylon many centuries ago, just like the Isaiah prophecies and the Bible tells how it came about, it's in the ancient past? The Bible tells how both kings came against Babylon and took over that kingdom.
One must spiritualize Isaiah 13 to think it's talking about some future destruction.

As for Matthew 24:21 that scripture does not say on the earth, as terrestrial. It says kosmos, there is a very real difference.
G2889
kos'-mos
Probably from the base of G2865; orderly arrangement, that is, decoration; by implication the world (in a wide or narrow sense, including its inhabitants, literally or figuratively [morally]): - adorning, world.

So just what world is being spoken of here?
My world is different from your world. We are not just in different physical locations but there are different people in your world then in my world. We even have different laws which we must follow in our different locations. Kosmos does not mean terrestrial earth.
The world of the Jews was an "orderly arrangement" governed by certain laws and rules. Including the sacrifice of the blood of bulls and goats for atonement. The destruction of the temple ended this system. That was their "world."
The Orthodox Jews would bring this back tomorrow if they could. You won't find me offering the blood of bulls and goats for atonement. What a slap in the face of our Redeemer and Lord.
Click to expand...
So would your answer be that the tribulation has past or is in future?
 
Kathi said:
Do any of you think that the Tribulation or "Day of the Lord" Isaiah 13:6-9;Matthew 24:21 was in the past and has already happened or do you think it is still in the future?
Click to expand...

The Tribulation is NOT the Day of Yahweh (Day of the Lord). They are two different events separated by the heavenly signs of the 6th seal. Yeshua said the greatest tribulation the earth will ever see happens before those heavenly signs (Mt 24:29). Joel says the Day of Yahweh will begin after those signs (Joel 2:31). They are both yet future.
 
jocor said:
The Tribulation is NOT the Day of Yahweh (Day of the Lord). They are two different events separated by the heavenly signs of the 6th seal. Yeshua said the greatest tribulation the earth will ever see happens before those heavenly signs (Mt 24:29). Joel says the Day of Yahweh will begin after those signs (Joel 2:31). They are both yet future.
Click to expand...
So you would say that the tribulation is future?
 
jocor said:
The Tribulation is NOT the Day of Yahweh (Day of the Lord). They are two different events separated by the heavenly signs of the 6th seal. Yeshua said the greatest tribulation the earth will ever see happens before those heavenly signs (Mt 24:29). Joel says the Day of Yahweh will begin after those signs (Joel 2:31). They are both yet future.
Click to expand...

The problem with saying that Joel scripture is in the future, is that Peter declared at some of those signs happened at Pentecost. There are more signs than just v31.
YLT
Joe 2:28 And it hath come to pass afterwards, I do pour out My Spirit on all flesh, And prophesied have your sons and your daughters, Your old men do dream dreams, Your young men do see visions.
Joe 2:29 And also on the men-servants, and on the maid-servants, In those days I do pour out My Spirit.
Joe 2:30 And I have given wonders in the heavens, and in the earth, Blood and fire, and columns of smoke.
Joe 2:31 The sun is turned to darkness, and the moon to blood, Before the coming of the day of Jehovah, The great and the fearful.
Joe 2:32 And it hath come to pass, Every one who calleth in the name of Jehovah is delivered, For in mount Zion and in Jerusalem there is an escape, As Jehovah hath said, And among the remnants whom Jehovah is calling!

Act 2:15 for these are not drunken, as ye take it up, for it is the third hour of the day.
Act 2:16 `But this is that which hath been spoken through the prophet Joel:
Act 2:17 And it shall be in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of My Spirit upon all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams;
Act 2:18 and also upon My men-servants, and upon My maid-servants, in those days, I will pour out of My Spirit, and they shall prophesy;
Act 2:19 and I will give wonders in the heaven above, and signs upon the earth beneath--blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke,
Act 2:20 the sun shall be turned to darkness, and the moon to blood, before the coming of the day of the Lord--the great and illustrious;
Act 2:21 and it shall be, every one--whoever shall call upon the name of the Lord, he shall be saved.

So I see that the prophesy spoken by Joel was at least partially manifested in Acts and that it was signs of the coming great and illustrious day of the Lord.
 
Deborah13 said:
I believe that the tribulation spoken about in Matthew 24 took place in about 66AD-70AD.
Click to expand...

If that is true, then the second coming of Yeshua and the resurrection occurred back then as well since it happened "immediately after the tribulation of those days." I believe Mt 24 has a dual fulfillment.
 
jocor said:
If that is true, then the second coming of Yeshua and the resurrection occurred back then as well since it happened "immediately after the tribulation of those days." I believe Mt 24 has a dual fulfillment.
Click to expand...
That would be true if one believes that His coming in the clouds is talking about the resurrection.
 
Kathi said:
You believe in two tribulations?Why two?
Click to expand...

You are not reading my posts very well. "Both" refers to the "Great Tribulation" and "The Day of Yahweh". However, I do believe there are many kinds of tribulations throughout history. There was indeed tribulation around 70 CE, but it was not the "great tribulation such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be" of Mt 24:21.
 
jocor said:
You are not reading my posts very well. "Both" refers to the "Great Tribulation" and "The Day of Yahweh". However, I do believe there are many kinds of tribulations throughout history. There was indeed tribulation around 70 CE, but it was not the "great tribulation such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be" of Mt 24:21.
Click to expand...
So you do not believe in one tribulation that is future?
 
jocor said:
What is it referring to?
Click to expand...
YLT
Mat 24:31 and he shall send his messengers with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his chosen from the four winds, from the ends of the heavens unto the ends thereof.

The messengers are those who preach the Gospel message, that reverberates as the sound of the sofar, gathering from every direction those who are His chosen people.
G3772 - heavens
oo-ran-os'
Perhaps from the same as G3735 (through the idea of elevation); the sky; by extension heaven (as the abode of God); by implication happiness, power, eternity; specifically the Gospel (Christianity): - air, heaven ([-ly]), sky.
G3735 -
or'-os
Probably a from an obsolete word ὄρω orō (to rise or “rear”; perhaps akin to G142; compare G3733); a mountain (as lifting itself above the plain): - hill, mount (-ain).

In other scripture the word heaven is sometimes used as an expression of a great expanse that can't be measured or of great distance or all encompassing and raised above.
What is the church but a great mountain of God rising up out of the wilderness and spreading the Gospel so that it reverberates from one generation to the next.
 
Deborah13 said:
YLT
Mat 24:31 and he shall send his messengers with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his chosen from the four winds, from the ends of the heavens unto the ends thereof.

The messengers are those who preach the Gospel message, that reverberates as the sound of the sofar, gathering from every direction those who are His chosen people.
G3772 - heavens
oo-ran-os'
Perhaps from the same as G3735 (through the idea of elevation); the sky; by extension heaven (as the abode of God); by implication happiness, power, eternity; specifically the Gospel (Christianity): - air, heaven ([-ly]), sky.
G3735 -
or'-os
Probably a from an obsolete word ὄρω orō (to rise or “rear”; perhaps akin to G142; compare G3733); a mountain (as lifting itself above the plain): - hill, mount (-ain).

In other scripture the word heaven is sometimes used as an expression of a great expanse that can't be measured or of great distance or all encompassing and raised above.
What is the church but a great mountain of God rising up out of the wilderness and spreading the Gospel so that it reverberates from one generation to the next.
Click to expand...

Interesting. Never heard that before. Why do you reject that it can be referring to Yeshua coming at the last trump to gather his elect via resurrection from all over the Earth? How do you understand verse 30?

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.​
 
Very literally Isaiah 13 is speaking of Babylon

Isa 13:1 The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see.

Isa 13:19 And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.
 
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