Trying to understand the law without the Spirit

[Heidi]

Trying to understand the law without the Spirit is like a person who wants to murder but only stops because he's not supposed to rather than because he truly loves his enemies. Trying to understand the law without the Spirit is like loving God or anyone because we are supposed to rather than from sincere love in our hearts.

And that's why sincere love is the fulfillment of the law, not simply obeying rules & regulations. Therefore as Paul says in Titus 3:9-10, "But avoid foolish controversie and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless. Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him. You may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned."

Jesus changes our hearts by giving us love and forgiveness that we give to our enemies which then enables us to fulfill the law and the commandments. "For out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks." Jesus is the fulfillment of the Law. "In repentance and rest is your salvation." Repent and receive the Holy Spirit & Christ's love will bring you into obediance of the law.

1 Corinthians 1:7-8, "Therefore, you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for out Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed. He will keep you strong to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ."

 

[cj]

"And the man called his wife's name Eve, because she was the mother of all living."

"....... because she was the mother of all living."

Yet, God had told Adam that, "...for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."

So what's the deal here, did Adam not take God seriously regard the ".... you shall surely die" declaration?

Doesn't the "..... you shall surely die" sound like a law of sorts? And yet, Adam later on was confident enough to make a declaration of his own regarding Eve being the mother of all living.

How could Adam make such a declaration? Because of this following "law" of God.....

Romans 4:13, "For it was not through the law that the promise was made to Abraham or to his seed that he would be the heir of the world,.... but through the righteousness of faith."

LAW..... the promise will be received through the righteousness of faith.

This "promise" is what?

Philippians 3:9, "And be found in Him, not having my own righteousness which is out of the law,.... but that which is through faith in Christ,.... the righteousness which is out of God and based on faith,"

TRUTH..... there are two levels of righteousness, that which is of man's efforts (in keeping the law of Moses) and that which is through faith in Christ, which is the righteousness out of God.

Which do you think is the higher level? And, having attained the higher level, who would desire to return to the lower level?

Adam must have heard and believed what God had said to the woman regarding the crushing of the serpents head by her seed.

To believe God is to have faith in God and thus be found righteous before God.

And before any jump on me..... remember that the Son was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, and that because of this a man's faith can be counted forward to the cross, as Abraham's faith was.

The law of Moses was made up of a series of outward forms that were required to be kept by those to whom this law was given. Keep the law and you could be counted righteous before God, break the law and in many cases God's mercy had allowed for ways to repent and thus come back into a righteous standing.

But the law, and the righteousness that was possible out of it, was dependent on man's ability to keep it. Man being fallen-man, out of a natural disposition eventually lost interest (and therefore desire) in keeping it. Thus the law became yet one more final bit of evidence that man could not achieve a righteous position on his own effort.

This was simply wickedness in God's eyes, as it exposed a complete disregard for God.

Yet, there is a deeper matter to this than just the lack of man's ability to keep these outward forms...... and this matter concerns the WHY men could not keep these forms question; a question that leads us straight to the matter of faith. No faith results in no keeping of anything.

Enter the Lamb of God,..... and even more..... the One who became the life-giving Spirit who comes into us to live out the riches and fullness of His excellent Person in and through us.

1 Timothy 1:5, "But the end of the charge is love out of a pure heart and out of a good cconscience and out of unfeigned faith;"

Even love comes out of faith. Yet we receive this faith as a result of God's love for us.

Both faith and love are just God expressed...... and this expression of God has a Name, Christ Jesus.

Paul said in 2 Timothy 4:7, "I have fought the good fight; I have finished the course; I have kept the faith."

Paul saying "...I have kept the faith.", is the concluding word to the two declarations he made just before...... "I have fought the good fight; I have finished the course;...."

Paul's ability to have fought the good fight and to have finished his course was as a result of him having kept the faith. And this is a great word of truth for every Christian....... our ability to endure and overcome is absolutely dependant on our ability to keep the faith. Notkeep the law of Moses, but as scripture declares, keep the faith.

The keeping of faith is the foundation on which the full requirement of the law is met. This is why Paul could boldly declare that he had a crown of righteousness awaiting him.

Notice though that Paul clearly says "I have kept...", and not "The Holy Spirit has kept....", as Paul understood that the keeping of faith was man's response to what God has done.

So, we come to the qustions of "What is this faith that Paul kept?", and "What does this faith that Paul kept look like?"

Any thoughts?

In love,
cj

 

[Rick W]

To believe God is to have faith in God and thus be found righteous before God.

..........

So, we come to the qustions of "What is this faith that Paul kept?", and "What does this faith that Paul kept look like?"

Any thoughts?

In love,
cj

You've already answered that question?
I'm not sure exactly what it is you're looking for.




2 Timothy 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:

Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

Hebrews 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Hebrews 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

Galatians 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
Galatians 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

Paul believed God.

 

[Rick W]

Trying to understand the law without the Spirit is like a person who wants to murder but only stops because he's not supposed to rather than because he truly loves his enemies. Trying to understand the law without the Spirit is like loving God or anyone because we are supposed to rather than from sincere love in our hearts.

And that's why sincere love is the fulfillment of the law, not simply obeying rules & regulations. Therefore as Paul says in Titus 3:9-10, "But avoid foolish controversie and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless. Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him. You may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned."

Jesus changes our hearts by giving us love and forgiveness that we give to our enemies which then enables us to fulfill the law and the commandments. "For out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks." Jesus is the fulfillment of the Law. "In repentance and rest is your salvation." Repent and receive the Holy Spirit & Christ's love will bring you into obediance of the law.

1 Corinthians 1:7-8, "Therefore, you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for out Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed. He will keep you strong to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ."

True enough.

John the Baptist came preaching repentance. Through repentance we acknowledge we are sinners and condemned. Through Christ's sacrifice, Jesus fulfilled the "Law". The law required sacrifice. Christ, the Lamb of God, made that sacrifice (for us) that we may stand blameless before God. Therefore the Law is "holy and good".

It is our faith, that he died, was buried and rose again, overcoming the power of sin, the second death (separation from God in heaven).

So by the Law is repentance (for by the Law we know what sin is) and by Christ fulfilling the Law with perfect sacrifice (His body) we may stand blameless before God in heaven.

Hebrews 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Hebrews 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Hebrews 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
Hebrews 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

Note:
"Law" - the Law of Moses - the Law of the OT

We can not fulfill the Law of Moses but by faith in Christ that He overcame the power of sin we have our place with Him in heaven.

 

[cj]

To believe God is to have faith in God and thus be found righteous before God.

..........

So, we come to the qustions of "What is this faith that Paul kept?", and "What does this faith that Paul kept look like?"

Any thoughts?

In love,
cj

You've already answered that question?
I'm not sure exactly what it is you're looking for.

Paul used the particular phrase... "kept the faith".... the two questions are really just one.

In James we read that faith without works is dead (or more proper, is useless). What is the relationship between having faith, which every believer has, and this faith being useful/kept, which is not necessarily the case with all who have faith.

Possessing faith does not gain one the reward of the crown of righteousness, faith used/kept does.

Colossians 2: 1 - 3, "For I want you to know how great a struggle I have for you and for those in Laodicea, even all who have not seen my face in the flesh, that their hearts may be comforted, they being knit together in love and unto all the riches of the full assurance of understanding, unto the full knowledge of the mystery of God, Christ, in whom all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge are hidden."


In the verses above is the answer, which is simply God's economy towards His creation. Paul kept the faith by being one with God's economy, as revealed in these verses.

Keeping the faith is being one with God's NT economy, and this keeping of the faith is expressed in the great struggle of believer's care of the reality of the truth expressed in Paul's words, "... their hearts may be comforted, they being knit together in love and unto all the riches of the full assurance of understanding, unto the full knowledge of the mystery of God, Christ, in whom all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge are hidden."

In love,
cj

 

[Heidi]

Amen, potluck. We cannot muster up faith. It is a gift from God in the form of the Holy Spirit. Then we will discern the law through the Spirit, and not by human wisdom. We will also reap the fruits of the Holy Spirit which are; love, patience, hope, joy, and self-control which bring us into obedience of the law. So as Paul says in Titus, it's futile to get into useless quarrels about the law when Christ fulfilled the law for us through his death which gives us love and grace that we then give to our neighbor. And that love in us keeps the commandments.

 

[Matthew24:14]

Trying to understand the law without the Spirit is like a person who wants to murder but only stops because he's not supposed to rather than because he truly loves his enemies. Trying to understand the law without the Spirit is like loving God or anyone because we are supposed to rather than from sincere love in our hearts.

And that's why sincere love is the fulfillment of the law, not simply obeying rules & regulations. Therefore as Paul says in Titus 3:9-10, "But avoid foolish controversie and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless. Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him. You may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned."

Jesus changes our hearts by giving us love and forgiveness that we give to our enemies which then enables us to fulfill the law and the commandments. "For out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks." Jesus is the fulfillment of the Law. "In repentance and rest is your salvation." Repent and receive the Holy Spirit & Christ's love will bring you into obediance of the law.

1 Corinthians 1:7-8, "Therefore, you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for out Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed. He will keep you strong to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ."

:angel: RECOGNIZING GODS PRESENCE,
I is written, it must be known:
It is unmistakable clear that the Holly SPIRIT lives in every
Believer in JESUS CHRIST read :.................................
Your Choice [ everlasting life or dead ] Read : 1Corinthians 3:16-17
Are you not aware that you are The TEMPLE of GOD .
And that the SPIRIT of GOD dwells in you. And if anyone
destroys GODS Temple , GOD will destroy him.
For the Temple of GOD is Holly , and you are that Temple.
Read: 1Corinthians 6:9-10 and 6:15-20
Act 7:48 and Act 17:24-25 also Romans 8:11
Let no man ( deceive ) him self.
Now you don’t have to look for GOD faraway ,because
He is as close as your self. ( that is, if you accept His presence )
When you do Accept, you are the keeper of GODS Temple.
That means, you have to follow the house rules,
( GODS Commandment ) keep the Temple clean from the world
evil[ satan influence ] such as : in Leviticus 19:28 and
1Corinthians 6:6-10 and 1Corinthians 7:8-11 etc. etc.
Tell the World this GOOD NEWS read: Matthew 24:14 :angel:

 

[Matthew24:14]

Trying to understand the law without the Spirit is like a person who wants to murder but only stops because he's not supposed to rather than because he truly loves his enemies. Trying to understand the law without the Spirit is like loving God or anyone because we are supposed to rather than from sincere love in our hearts.

And that's why sincere love is the fulfillment of the law, not simply obeying rules & regulations. Therefore as Paul says in Titus 3:9-10, "But avoid foolish controversie and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless. Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him. You may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned."

Jesus changes our hearts by giving us love and forgiveness that we give to our enemies which then enables us to fulfill the law and the commandments. "For out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks." Jesus is the fulfillment of the Law. "In repentance and rest is your salvation." Repent and receive the Holy Spirit & Christ's love will bring you into obediance of the law.

1 Corinthians 1:7-8, "Therefore, you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for out Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed. He will keep you strong to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ."

:angel: RECOGNIZING GODS PRESENCE,
I is written, it must be known:
It is unmistakable clear that the Holly SPIRIT lives in every
Believer in JESUS CHRIST read :.................................
Your Choice [ everlasting life or dead ] Read : 1Corinthians 3:16-17
Are you not aware that you are The TEMPLE of GOD .
And that the SPIRIT of GOD dwells in you. And if anyone
destroys GODS Temple , GOD will destroy him.
For the Temple of GOD is Holly , and you are that Temple.
Read: 1Corinthians 6:9-10 and 6:15-20
Act 7:48 and Act 17:24-25 also Romans 8:11
Let no man ( deceive ) him self.
Now you don’t have to look for GOD faraway ,because
He is as close as your self. ( that is, if you accept His presence )
When you do Accept, you are the keeper of GODS Temple.
That means, you have to follow the house rules,
( GODS Commandment ) keep the Temple clean from the world
evil[ satan influence ] such as : in Leviticus 19:28 and
1Corinthians 6:6-10 and 1Corinthians 7:8-11 etc. etc.
Tell the World this GOOD NEWS read: Matthew 24:14 :angel: