Two or Three and the Need

[GodsGrace]

There is no correct answer...all are welcome.

Are we made up of two parts, or three parts;
Do we have a
BODY
SOUL ---- and what about the spirit? Would it be part of the soul?
This is a Dichotomy

OR
Do we have a
BODY
SOUL
SPIRIT
This is a Trichotomy

How does the concept you believe function....
and does the Spirit have needs...
Tas, for example, the body has needs: Like food.

 

[JLB]

There is no correct answer...all are welcome.

Are we made up of two parts, or three parts;
Do we have a
BODY
SOUL ---- and what about the spirit? Would it be part of the soul?
This is a Dichotomy

OR
Do we have a
BODY
SOUL
SPIRIT
This is a Trichotomy

How does the concept you believe function....
and does the Spirit have needs...
Tas, for example, the body has needs: Like food.

Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Thessalonians 5:23


Man is created in the image and likeness of God, and is a tripartite being.

Man is a spirit, and has a soul (mind, will and emotions) and lives in a natural body, that will one day be changed into an incorruptible body like the Lord’s.


The Father expresses His will through the Word, and the Spirit brings into manifestation what the Word speaks, which is the will of the Father.


It was the Father’s will that there be light.

The Word spoke light into the darkness and the Spirit brought light into manifestation from the Word, which was the will of the Father.


God designed man to function this way, but he fell.


Jesus functioned this way, and is our pattern.



JLB

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

Hebrews 4:12-13 states:

12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. 13 Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

The context of these verses strengthen a point the severity of disobedience to God, just before talking about Jesus as our high priest and having confidence because of Jesus and the grace of God.

Regardless of the context, Herews 4:12-13 talks about both the soul and the spirit, and compares the Word to being able to Seperate the two with being able to separate bone marrow and joints. In one translations I think it was as close as separating bone from the marrow. It took an anatomy class to make this verse show how closely the two are linked.

With this in mind, my conclusion is that there is a difference between soul and Spirit, based on the text identifying both. However knowing the difference isn't something I think is very identifiable. On a practical aspect it may be just as hard to differentiate between God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hebrews 4:12-13 states:

12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. 13 Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

The context of these verses strengthen a point the severity of disobedience to God, just before talking about Jesus as our high priest and having confidence because of Jesus and the grace of God.

Regardless of the context, Herews 4:12-13 talks about both the soul and the spirit, and compares the Word to being able to Seperate the two with being able to separate bone marrow and joints. In one translations I think it was as close as separating bone from the marrow. It took an anatomy class to make this verse show how closely the two are linked.

With this in mind, my conclusion is that there is a difference between soul and Spirit, based on the text identifying both. However knowing the difference isn't something I think is very identifiable. On a practical aspect it may be just as hard to differentiate between God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

I agree that the soul and spirit are separate entities.
As JLB has stated in post no. 2, the soul is the will, mind, and emotions of each person.

Our spirit part is the part of us that can make contact with God and communes with God...It's the God part of us...but it is activated only when we are born again and accept the Holy Spirit as part of us...this is when our spirit becomes alive.

There are so many good verses regarding how the spirit makes us alive to God,,,and thus we are truly alive....

Romans 8:6

For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace John 6:63 The Spirit gives life....

 

[GodsGrace]

The spirit has an effect on the soul.
This is what causes the changes in us after salvation and coming to know God.

I can't think of any verses for this...

Our soul,,,by it's nature - and it's different for everyone - might cause us to worry a lot. Knowing God may not remove this completely, or it may remove this problem completely, but it will surely help us to worry less. This would be a big problem for, for instance, if I didn't know that I could trust God to keep my worry in check.

 

[JLB]

The spirit has an effect on the soul.
This is what causes the changes in us after salvation and coming to know God.

I can't think of any verses for this...

Our soul,,,by it's nature - and it's different for everyone - might cause us to worry a lot. Knowing God may not remove this completely, or it may remove this problem completely, but it will surely help us to worry less. This would be a big problem for, for instance, if I didn't know that I could trust God to keep my worry in check.

• be transformed by the renewing of your mind,

I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:1-2



JLB

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

To wondering

I don't feel comfortable to identify differences between the mind, the spirit, or the soul. For that matter the distinction between the mind and the body are more related to one another then not. But at least we can identify differences between the two even if we can see the relation they play with one another.

With relation to the mind, the soul, and the spirit, what can we use to determine one from another? We are told to test the spirits for a reason. Not everything spiritual is from the Holy Spirit. And unfortunately the same issues are there with the unreliability of even our own hearts.

What I agree with is that we need to trust in God to hold us together. Even if we don't understand why or how He does it. Our trust is in Him.

I'm not saying this because I disagree with the conclusion that our soul in in charge of our mind, or will and emotions. I'm saying this because I don't know, and I don't think it can be separated out which does what.

I have a simular issue with the trinity. There's no way to differentiate between Jesus, (the Word of God), The Holy Spirit (sometimes called the sevenfold Spirit), and God. Because of this the concepts of the trinity hold merit, because to find one of them means you'll be with the others as well. Yet that said there are differences. Jesus said that of the end times only the Father knows that, not even the Son knows those. He also said that when He is next to God in Heaven Jesus will send the Holy Spirit down to us (or at least to the apostles.) Then there is an issue of Jesus praying to God. Even to pray the prayers just before being taken to the cross.

Nonetheless, if someone wanted to justify a difference between God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, we would think tgat person is foolish. Where any of them are so too will the other two be also.

It is on this same way I think there's no justifiable differentiation that we can make between our Spirit and our Soul. God can seperate the two. It's not our burden to do it also. That's just my opinion on the matter anyways.

 

[daninthelionsden]

The spirit has an effect on the soul.
This is what causes the changes in us after salvation and coming to know God.

I can't think of any verses for this...

Our soul,,,by it's nature - and it's different for everyone - might cause us to worry a lot. Knowing God may not remove this completely, or it may remove this problem completely, but it will surely help us to worry less. This would be a big problem for, for instance, if I didn't know that I could trust God to keep my worry in check.

Every time I try to understand the difference between soul and spirit, I feel I'm on thin ice. I usually try to just break it down to flesh vs spirit with the mind being the battlefield. But, that's just me trying to keep it simple.

 

[JohnDB]

To wondering

I don't feel comfortable to identify differences between the mind, the spirit, or the soul. For that matter the distinction between the mind and the body are more related to one another then not. But at least we can identify differences between the two even if we can see the relation they play with one another.

With relation to the mind, the soul, and the spirit, what can we use to determine one from another? We are told to test the spirits for a reason. Not everything spiritual is from the Holy Spirit. And unfortunately the same issues are there with the unreliability of even our own hearts.

What I agree with is that we need to trust in God to hold us together. Even if we don't understand why or how He does it. Our trust is in Him.

I'm not saying this because I disagree with the conclusion that our soul in in charge of our mind, or will and emotions. I'm saying this because I don't know, and I don't think it can be separated out which does what.

I have a simular issue with the trinity. There's no way to differentiate between Jesus, (the Word of God), The Holy Spirit (sometimes called the sevenfold Spirit), and God. Because of this the concepts of the trinity hold merit, because to find one of them means you'll be with the others as well. Yet that said there are differences. Jesus said that of the end times only the Father knows that, not even the Son knows those. He also said that when He is next to God in Heaven Jesus will send the Holy Spirit down to us (or at least to the apostles.) Then there is an issue of Jesus praying to God. Even to pray the prayers just before being taken to the cross.

Nonetheless, if someone wanted to justify a difference between God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, we would think tgat person is foolish. Where any of them are so too will the other two be also.

It is on this same way I think there's no justifiable differentiation that we can make between our Spirit and our Soul. God can seperate the two. It's not our burden to do it also. That's just my opinion on the matter anyways.

According to what I have seen and read...

Nepesh (Hebrew for soul) is a reference to both body and spirit and mind.
The totals sum of what makes us...us.

This concept that God is only "Spirit" is of course laughable...He proved otherwise. God is Spirit, God is love, God is good....and the list goes on.

Knowledge of the cultural thinking of the time period groups helps enormously...as does reading this in Hebrew...it does clarify things up really quickly when you see how nepesh is used.

 

[GodsGrace]

Every time I try to understand the difference between soul and spirit, I feel I'm on thin ice. I usually try to just break it down to flesh vs spirit with the mind being the battlefield. But, that's just me trying to keep it simple.

Sounds pretty good!
Since both the flesh and the spirit have an effect on the soul---which YOU call the mind's battlefield.

Animals have a body and a soul.
Each dog is different. Some are kind, some are mean, some bark a lot and love attention, some sleep all day. This is because they have this soul that allows a dog to be HIMSELF. They have no spirit..they do everything out of training and instinct.

Man has a body and a soul too. We are each different.
You just have to add the spirit because we're capable of knowing about God...not only His existence, but also how HE affects our actions...our actions are caused by our soul which is the
MIND
WILL
EMOTIONS

So I'm in a store and would like to steal a pocketbook.
This is my SOUL part,,,,my mind, as you understand it...telling me to get this pocketbook for free.

My born-again spirit part tells my soul NOT TO STEAL ....
And thus:
My spirit affects my soul.

This really helped me a lot to understand how we function as human beings when I became a new Christian.

 

[daninthelionsden]

Sounds pretty good!
Since both the flesh and the spirit have an effect on the soul---which YOU call the mind's battlefield.

Animals have a body and a soul.
Each dog is different. Some are kind, some are mean, some bark a lot and love attention, some sleep all day. This is because they have this soul that allows a dog to be HIMSELF. They have no spirit..they do everything out of training and instinct.

Man has a body and a soul too. We are each different.
You just have to add the spirit because we're capable of knowing about God...not only His existence, but also how HE affects our actions...our actions are caused by our soul which is the
MIND
WILL
EMOTIONS

So I'm in a store and would like to steal a pocketbook.
This is my SOUL part,,,,my mind, as you understand it...telling me to get this pocketbook for free.

My born-again spirit part tells my soul NOT TO STEAL ....
And thus:
My spirit affects my soul.

This really helped me a lot to understand how we function as human beings when I became a new Christian.

Yes how you presented that is how I was taught and understood it for decades. I was feeling bad about losing a pet and had been taught that, since animals had no spirit, I wouldn't see them again. But, somebody spoke up in another forum presenting a verse showing animals had a spirit and that I would, indeed, see my pets. After that, I figured I would just leave the spirit/soul thing to the more learned. Now you have me wanting to know/remember which verse that was he showed animals have a spirit. Previously all I remembered was some verse talked about humans have a spirit that returns to God and animals have a soul that returns to the earth. I guess I need to revisit this subject.

 

[Boaz]

There is no correct answer...all are welcome.

Are we made up of two parts, or three parts;
Do we have a
BODY
SOUL ---- and what about the spirit? Would it be part of the soul?
This is a Dichotomy

OR
Do we have a
BODY
SOUL
SPIRIT
This is a Trichotomy

How does the concept you believe function....
and does the Spirit have needs...
Tas, for example, the body has needs: Like food.

I'm not really certain. I know that sometimes the Bible uses them interchangeably. I think of the soul as the whole of us, who we are, maybe including the body because our bodies are as much who we are (humans) as any of it. Unique, a one time creation. The spirit may actually be the same as the soul. Or maybe it is our essence.

 

[Boaz]

I agree that the soul and spirit are separate entities.
As JLB has stated in post no. 2, the soul is the will, mind, and emotions of each person.

Our spirit part is the part of us that can make contact with God and communes with God...It's the God part of us...but it is activated only when we are born again and accept the Holy Spirit as part of us...this is when our spirit becomes alive.

There are so many good verses regarding how the spirit makes us alive to God,,,and thus we are truly alive....

Romans 8:6

​

​ For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace John 6:63 The Spirit gives life....

I have heard that before, that the soul is the mind, will and emotions. Where/how do you come up with that from scripture?

 

[Boaz]

Sounds pretty good!
Since both the flesh and the spirit have an effect on the soul---which YOU call the mind's battlefield.

Animals have a body and a soul.
Each dog is different. Some are kind, some are mean, some bark a lot and love attention, some sleep all day. This is because they have this soul that allows a dog to be HIMSELF. They have no spirit..they do everything out of training and instinct.

Man has a body and a soul too. We are each different.
You just have to add the spirit because we're capable of knowing about God...not only His existence, but also how HE affects our actions...our actions are caused by our soul which is the
MIND
WILL
EMOTIONS

So I'm in a store and would like to steal a pocketbook.
This is my SOUL part,,,,my mind, as you understand it...telling me to get this pocketbook for free.

My born-again spirit part tells my soul NOT TO STEAL ....
And thus:
My spirit affects my soul.

This really helped me a lot to understand how we function as human beings when I became a new Christian.

I don't know if animals know about God in some way. I do know God communes with them and they listen. He tells the deer when to lay down and have her young. He tells the geese when and where to migrate, same with the Monarch butterfly etc etc.
Sorry. Side track.

 

[Anto9us2]

I say Tripartate. Tripartite, whatever.
If the word
of God can pierce between soul and spirit like it says in Hebrews, then soul and spirit must be different

I dunno where MIND, WILL and EMOTIONS got designated as parts of the soul, good to question if it's biblical

Even animals have NEPHESH.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes how you presented that is how I was taught and understood it for decades. I was feeling bad about losing a pet and had been taught that, since animals had no spirit, I wouldn't see them again. But, somebody spoke up in another forum presenting a verse showing animals had a spirit and that I would, indeed, see my pets. After that, I figured I would just leave the spirit/soul thing to the more learned. Now you have me wanting to know/remember which verse that was he showed animals have a spirit. Previously all I remembered was some verse talked about humans have a spirit that returns to God and animals have a soul that returns to the earth. I guess I need to revisit this subject.

Animals do not have a spirit since they know nothing about God and/or serving Him. But, who knows, maybe we will see our pets in heaven! I also would like to see mine again. Maybe God will allow this for our happiness? Maybe we won't even think about them anymore? What about the persons we love that will not be there??
Surely God has made a remedy for this.

You say the soul returns to the earth.
NO! The soul lives on forever...only the body returns to the earth.
The soul and the spirit go to be with God.

I wonder if you're thinking of Ecclesiastes 12:7?

I will say that in the O.T. the soul and the spirit were spoken of interchangeably since it was not totally revealed as yet how the two differed.

 

[JohnDB]

Animals do not have a spirit since they know nothing about God and/or serving Him. But, who knows, maybe we will see our pets in heaven! I also would like to see mine again. Maybe God will allow this for our happiness? Maybe we won't even think about them anymore? What about the persons we love that will not be there??
Surely God has made a remedy for this.

You say the soul returns to the earth.
NO! The soul lives on forever...only the body returns to the earth.
The soul and the spirit go to be with God.

I wonder if you're thinking of Ecclesiastes 12:7?

I will say that in the O.T. the soul and the spirit were spoken of interchangeably since it was not totally revealed as yet how the two differed.

Heavenly reward was not revealed in scriptures until the end of Daniel's ministry/prophecy.

Of course Solomon isn't going to be able to speak on the subject with clarity. The notion of your spirit going to God wasn't revealed until Solomon. "Resting with your Fathers" was all that was said and it meant that you were at peace and rest....a far far difference than that of heavenly reward we hold now.

 

[GodsGrace]

I'm not really certain. I know that sometimes the Bible uses them interchangeably. I think of the soul as the whole of us, who we are, maybe including the body because our bodies are as much who we are (humans) as any of it. Unique, a one time creation. The spirit may actually be the same as the soul. Or maybe it is our essence.

You're right. The O.T. uses the terms soul and spirit interchangeably.

But the soul and body are separate.
The body is a physical object...you know the name of each part and a person can "feel" their body. The body is part of us because we recognize each other by how we look, and walk, and speak, etc.

We also know each other by our soul....we each have a different set of emotions that can control us, our will is different. Where in our body the soul is cannot be pin-pointed, although it must be in the mind.

Regarding the soul being the same as the spirit, some do believe that the spirit is a part of the soul; however, all scholars believe that the soul and spirit are different. That would be a dichotomy....

I believe in a trichotomy because it's easier to understand.

 

[GodsGrace]

Heavenly reward was not revealed in scriptures until the end of Daniel's ministry/prophecy.

Of course Solomon isn't going to be able to speak on the subject with clarity. The notion of your spirit going to God wasn't revealed until Solomon. "Resting with your Fathers" was all that was said and it meant that you were at peace and rest....a far far difference than that of heavenly reward we hold now.

Sure.
And because of this "resting with the fathers" some today believe in soul sleep. They believe the soul "sleeps" until Jesus returns and the new earth is established.

It's difficult for me to understand how anyone could believe this...
We either have a soul or we don't...it either stays alive or it dies.

God furnishes us with a soul at??? conception, most probably.
I doubt He would do this twice...once at conception and once when we wake up from this soul sleep some believe.

 

[GodsGrace]

I have heard that before, that the soul is the mind, will and emotions. Where/how do you come up with that from scripture?

Great question.
How I come up with it is that I studied it and it was confirmed by two different churches. I confess that I learn from real human beings that know the theology of their chosen denomination.

....................................................................................
The soul is comprised of:
The Mind: The capacity to think and reason
The Emotions: The capacity to experience feeling
The Will: The capacity to desire and choose

The above are interlocked:
Mental functions are influenced by emotional and volitional functions.
Desires are interlocked with emotions and intellect.
Emotions are affected by your desires and your intellect.

The soul functions are amoral.

source: Dynamics of Discipling
Arts Publications Ltd.

.................................................................................................

There are many verses about the soul...
but, offhand, I can't really think of any that speak specifically to the soul being the mind, will and emotion of the human person.