What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

We must earnestly contend with our faith in Jesus Christ.

WalterandDebbie

WalterandDebbie

CF Ambassador
Sabbath Overseer
We must earnestly contend with our faith in Jesus Christ until the very end of time: Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Jude 1:3, Jude: The entire chapter: http://biblehub.com/kjv/jude/1.htm ,
James 1: all verses http://biblehub.com/kjv/james/1.htm
 
We contend for faith, not with faith. Unless you mean we contend for the faith once delivered to the saints, armed with our faith in Jesus Christ.
 
WalterandDebbie said:
We must earnestly contend with our faith in Jesus Christ until the very end of time: Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Jude 1:3, Jude: The entire chapter: http://biblehub.com/kjv/jude/1.htm ,
James 1: all verses http://biblehub.com/kjv/james/1.htm
Click to expand...

How do you think we should contend for the faith? What are the elements in that contending?
 
LifeinOne said:
There's nothing to contend with except to experience what God has created.

Acts 17
24: The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in shrines made by man,
25: nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all men life and breath and everything.
26: And he made from one every nation of men to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their habitation,
27: that they should seek God, in the hope that they might feel after him and find him. Yet he is not far from each one of us,
28: for ..In him we live and move and have our being'; as even some of your poets have said, ..For we are indeed his offspring.'
Click to expand...

You are not reading the text of Jude 1:3 (ESV). What does the word 'contend' mean in that verse?

If there is nothing to contend for, then God was wasting his God-breathed inspiration (2 Tim 3:16-17 ESV) to tell us to 'earnestly contend for the faith' (Jude 1:3 ESV). God knows we have to contend for the faith and he instructs us to do so.

Oz
 
Last edited:
LifeinOne said:
I'm only sharing knowledge with you that we don't have to contend with anything that God created except to experience what He created for us both visible and invisible. You can't do anything to change the life that he has planned for you.
Click to expand...

You are avoiding my question. Jude 1:3 (ESV) states that Christians are to earnestly contend for the faith. What does the word 'contend' mean in that verse?
 
LifeinOne said:
I'm not here to argue with you. Most Christians will believe their own interpretations instead of listening to the Holy Spirit who teaches all things that our Father created.
Click to expand...

I listen to the Holy Spirit and he tells me that I need to understand the meaning of the Greek used in Jude 1:3 (ESV) for 'contend'. I'm asking you a simple question. Please tell us what 'contend' means in Jude so that we can practise it in the 21st century.

Are you telling us that that the interpretation the Holy Spirit teaches you is the only correct view?
 
Reminder from the forum rules:

If you believe that someone is in error you must respectfully cite scripture to support your assertion.
 
WalterandDebbie said:
https://www.google.com/search?q=How+do+you+think+we+should+contend+for+the+faith?+What+are+the+elements+in+that+contending?&rlz=1C1AOHY_enUS708US708&oq=How+do+you+think+we+should+contend+for+the+faith?+What+are+the+elements+in+that+contending?&aqs=chrome..69i57.3639274j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Click to expand...

WalterandDebbie,

I wonder why it is so difficult to understand the meaning of 'contend earnestly' in Jude 1:3 (ESV) for the first century and its application to the 21st century.

This may seem a bit technical for some. I'll try to break it down but I will transliterate the Greek terms used for 'contend earnestly'.

What is an exegetical understanding of the meaning of epagwnizesthai (a present tense infinitive from epagwnizomai) in Jude 1:3 (ESV) that is often translated as 'contend earnestly'?

In Jude 1:3 (ESV), this is the only time this compound word appears in the NT, the compound being the preposition epi + the verb, agwn. What does it mean?

Arndt & Gingrich's Greek lexicon states that it means 'fight, contend' (A&G 1957:281). The preposition, epi, at the beginning of the verb strengthens the agwn (contest). Agwn (the stem of the verb) 'emphasizes the conscious application of one's powers for the achievement of a goal' (Ringwald in Colin Brown, Dictionary of New Testament Theology, vol 1, 1975:647). This is a leading Greek word study publication.

Because epagwnizomai is the present tense of the infinitive, it stresses continued action - to keep on earnestly contending (for the faith). It is not an occasional task but is one that will continue to be fought (until Jesus returns).

This is not stated negatively, like keep on contending earnestly for the faith against the heresies promoted at that time. However, there is an implication that the faith is being threatened and that Christians are to continue fighting for the Christian faith.

However, this is not contending contentiously!

Many people may not have access to the NT Greek tools available, but how does a person 'contend earnestly' for the faith? It will have the same implications as Jude had.

For me in Australia, the faith is being attacked by:
(a) Those who promote Dr killing and assistance in killing - euthanasia and assisted suicide. This is accompanied by the killing of babies in the womb (about 80,000 per year).
(b) A weak Gospel from evangelical churches that don't equip people to 'contend earnestly' for the faith. Apologetics is not high on the priority of many churches.
(c) Promotion of macroevolution in schools and universities to the detriment of creation by God, etc.

Oz
 
WalterandDebbie said:
Yes! it most certainly do.
Click to expand...
Only if you posted or wrote everything that appeared in the search results. Oz asked what YOU think. You don't have to give an answer, but that wasn't an answer. I'm not saying this to be critical of you. Just pointing this out.
 
So...basically...in more secularized nations, the remaining (Protestant) churches aren't disciple-ing people sufficiently? How's the RCC doing down under?
 
Christ_empowered said:
So...basically...in more secularized nations, the remaining (Protestant) churches aren't disciple-ing people sufficiently? How's the RCC doing down under?
Click to expand...

The RCC isn't the same in America as it is in the rest of the world. It's been said that they are "Charismatic Catholics" and not as stiff as their American counterparts...and from what I've seen its true. They aren't as much into some of the things that Yanks seem to focus on. Much more Evangelical than what I had expected...
 
Christ_empowered said:
So...basically...in more secularized nations, the remaining (Protestant) churches aren't disciple-ing people sufficiently? How's the RCC doing down under?
Click to expand...

Few are discipling in my region. Most are into getting more people into the building to pay off the mortgage through seeker-sensitive meetings with lots of rock music and Hillsong or Jesus Culture music. My nephew's 8-year-old son told me that he really enjoys going to their church because 'I get a concert every week'.

How's the RCC doing? I don't have a lot of contact with them, except for a few charismatic Catholics but it's a while since I made contact. Most seem to be involved in getting people into Mass, supporting RCC schools (with some govt. funding), and maintaining the tradition. But I don't speak from a lot of knowledge.

I'm discipling a fellow who is a former RC person and he had no idea of the Gospel until he came to a Protestant Church and the pastor took him through Christianity Explained. He's growing in his faith but has a lot of catching up to do. We are working our way through John's Gospel (at his request) and last Sat when we came to the pronunciation of the town of Capernaum, he had no idea how to pronounce it.

Oz
 
OzSpen said:
Few are discipling in my region. Most are into getting more people into the building to pay off the mortgage through seeker-sensitive meetings with lots of rock music and Hillsong or Jesus Culture music. My nephew's 8-year-old son told me that he really enjoys going to their church because 'I get a concert every week'.

How's the RCC doing? I don't have a lot of contact with them, except for a few charismatic Catholics but it's a while since I made contact. Most seem to be involved in getting people into Mass, supporting RCC schools (with some govt. funding), and maintaining the tradition. But I don't speak from a lot of knowledge.

I'm discipling a fellow who is a former RC person and he had no idea of the Gospel until he came to a Protestant Church and the pastor took him through Christianity Explained. He's growing in his faith but has a lot of catching up to do. We are working our way through John's Gospel (at his request) and last Sat when we came to the pronunciation of the town of Capernaum, he had no idea how to pronounce it.

Oz
Click to expand...

Wow... I've heard an Aussie accent before...but the guys on the video were speaking but I understood nothing they were saying.
(Thought I would look at the study materials you linked to)
 
JohnDB said:
Wow... I've heard an Aussie accent before...but the guys on the video were speaking but I understood nothing they were saying.
(Thought I would look at the study materials you linked to)
Click to expand...

JohnDB,

I lived for 7 years in the USA & Canada (18 months in Canada) and preached and taught regularly with my Aussie accent. Most people had no difficulty understanding me. By trade I'm a radio DJ and TV newsreader. I was a radio DJ for 2 stations in North America, one in Vancouver BC and the other in Seattle WA. If my accent was that bad, I wouldn't have been accepted as an announcer.

However, if you meet a broad Aussie accent by a 'bushie', you may find the strine difficult to understand. Let's see if I can find a link to such a person's speaking online. Listen to 'How to speak Australian'. Here's a reading of our most famous poem, The Man from Snowy River (YouTube), written by Aussie poet Banjo Patterson.

Then you could listen to our favourite Aussie-grown country music singer, the late Slim Dusty. Here's his rendition of Ringer from the Top End (YouTube) and Waltzing Matilda.

For some more Aussie evangelistic tools, I recommend 'Two Ways to Live' (Matthias Media - evangelical Sydney Anglicans).

Oz
 
Last edited:
OzSpen said:
JohnDB,

I lived for 7 years in the USA & Canada (18 months in Canada) and preached and taught regularly with my Aussie accent. Most people had no difficulty understanding me. By trade I'm a radio DJ and TV newsreader. I was a radio DJ for 2 stations in North America, one in Vancouver BC and the other in Seattle WA. If my accent was that bad, I wouldn't have been accepted as an announcer.

However, if you meet a broad Aussie accent by a 'bushie', you may find the strine difficult to understand. Let's see if I can find a link to such a person's speaking online. Listen to 'How to speak Australian'. Here's a reading of our most famous poem, The Man from Snowy River (YouTube), written by Aussie poet Banjo Patterson.

Then you could listen to our favourite Aussie-grown country music singer, the late Slim Dusty. Here's his rendition of Ringer from the Top End (YouTube) and Waltzing Matilda.

For some more Aussie evangelistic tools, I recommend 'Two Ways to Live' (Matthias Media - evangelical Sydney Anglicans).

Oz
Click to expand...
Oh I understood the words they said...that wasn't the problem.
It was the way that they used the terms that they used..

I'm sure that it was very understandable to fellow Aussie but to us Yanks it's a tad confusing.

If someone called me a "spoon" in Australia they may be correct and understood...in America they still would be right but no one would really understand what was said of me.

It was this sort of thing that I found baffling. I understood but didn't at the same time. Not knocking the manner they speak with. I love the colorful speech. I just didn't understand it very well. I even used the tool they had for the hearing impaired and read the words they were saying at the bottom...it still didn't help.

Oh well...I still enjoy hearing it all.

BTW. A bogan is a native Australian?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top