What do you want in a health plan?

[miamited]

Hi all

Not meaning to beat a dead horse, but...

The recently released health insurance plan by Pres. Trump is.......What? Apparently just to give us all money and earmark it for medical premiums and hope that's what it gets spent on.

So, I'm curious and this is not about politics but preferences.

Should the United States go with a plan where everyone is on their own about their medical bills and level of care they might get based on what they could afford to pay or finance at the moment of their need? If any particular person chooses to have insurance to cover expected and unexpected medical bills that would be solely up to them.

Or, should we have a government subsidized health insurance plan that is paid for through tax dollars to take care of the all the people's medical costs? Such as in the UK and some other European countries.

Or, should we rather have a form more like what we've had, where the government does subsidize health care, but through the currently existing insurance company networks by giving tax credits for premium costs to the low income among us?

Or, whatever plan anyone thinks might be a workable way to handle people's healthcare costs. Do we go with live or let die model based on ability to pay for it? Or are we just a bit more 'Good Samaritan' than that?

And I just bring this up because it's going to be an issue shortly. From what I'm seeing and hearing, premium assistance for low income is not going to continue unless the government makes a ruling to do so by December 31, 2025. If that premium assistance does not continue, many individuals and families that currently have health insurance will have increases of several hundreds to thousands of dollars.

I have a friend who is 65 and fairly physically disabled. No, she doesn't have a job because the one she had let her go when she was missing too much time for her cancer diagnosis and treatment. And I'm not saying that was the reason for her dismissal, but it did come fairly quickly after she learned that she had cancer. And it was for missing too much work time. So, what does she do? Just die. Lay in her little 6x14 camper van that she lives in and go on with life and die. She couldn't afford to pay insurance premiums and if things go back to the way they were before the ACA, she wouldn't be able to buy health insurance at all. Pre-existing stuff and all. I worry for her. What will she do if she loses the Medicaid insurance that she's presently getting that she just enrolled in since losing her job? No doctor visits unless she could convince some doctor to give her once over look over for $200. You couldn't get any lab work done for that. Never get an xray again to track how her cancer's doing. Just go home and die.

So I'm curious, you know the Scriptures talk about greed and self-centeredness, and I know I've suffered my share of both. Still dealing with the SC at times. But are we being charitable, as God would want us to be, if we allowed our government to help us with health care? Or should we all just be prepared to die when God calls us home without seeking medical care for such things. And I ask that in all sincerity. Abraham just died in the wilderness. We have no accounting that there were people attending to him in any kind of medical way as he died. Israel just died. As far as we know he didn't order up meds for his ills. Through very much of history, most people just died without having some expensive medical care to extend their days. Is that we want now? Even I have started taking a 5% Lisinopril tablet for rising BP. A medication that no one had access or even knew to care for 200 years ago.

But what should be our position on the upcoming change to our present government supplied healthcare program. And what kind of changes would we want in any new national healthcare plan. Like I say, we can always just throw it all out and let people live as they can afford to live as regards their healthcare.

 

[onlysaved]

Hi all

Not meaning to beat a dead horse, but...

The recently released health insurance plan by Pres. Trump is.......What? Apparently just to give us all money and earmark it for medical premiums and hope that's what it gets spent on.

So, I'm curious and this is not about politics but preferences.

Should the United States go with a plan where everyone is on their own about their medical bills and level of care they might get based on what they could afford to pay or finance at the moment of their need? If any particular person chooses to have insurance to cover expected and unexpected medical bills that would be solely up to them.

Or, should we have a government subsidized health insurance plan that is paid for through tax dollars to take care of the all the people's medical costs? Such as in the UK and some other European countries.

Or, should we rather have a form more like what we've had, where the government does subsidize health care, but through the currently existing insurance company networks by giving tax credits for premium costs to the low income among us?

Or, whatever plan anyone thinks might be a workable way to handle people's healthcare costs. Do we go with live or let die model based on ability to pay for it? Or are we just a bit more 'Good Samaritan' than that?

And I just bring this up because it's going to be an issue shortly. From what I'm seeing and hearing, premium assistance for low income is not going to continue unless the government makes a ruling to do so by December 31, 2025. If that premium assistance does not continue, many individuals and families that currently have health insurance will have increases of several hundreds to thousands of dollars.

I have a friend who is 65 and fairly physically disabled. No, she doesn't have a job because the one she had let her go when she was missing too much time for her cancer diagnosis and treatment. And I'm not saying that was the reason for her dismissal, but it did come fairly quickly after she learned that she had cancer. And it was for missing too much work time. So, what does she do? Just die. Lay in her little 6x14 camper van that she lives in and go on with life and die. She couldn't afford to pay insurance premiums and if things go back to the way they were before the ACA, she wouldn't be able to buy health insurance at all. Pre-existing stuff and all. I worry for her. What will she do if she loses the Medicaid insurance that she's presently getting that she just enrolled in since losing her job? No doctor visits unless she could convince some doctor to give her once over look over for $200. You couldn't get any lab work done for that. Never get an xray again to track how her cancer's doing. Just go home and die.

So I'm curious, you know the Scriptures talk about greed and self-centeredness, and I know I've suffered my share of both. Still dealing with the SC at times. But are we being charitable, as God would want us to be, if we allowed our government to help us with health care? Or should we all just be prepared to die when God calls us home without seeking medical care for such things. And I ask that in all sincerity. Abraham just died in the wilderness. We have no accounting that there were people attending to him in any kind of medical way as he died. Israel just died. As far as we know he didn't order up meds for his ills. Through very much of history, most people just died without having some expensive medical care to extend their days. Is that we want now? Even I have started taking a 5% Lisinopril tablet for rising BP. A medication that no one had access or even knew to care for 200 years ago.

But what should be our position on the upcoming change to our present government supplied healthcare program. And what kind of changes would we want in any new national healthcare plan. Like I say, we can always just throw it all out and let people live as they can afford to live as regards their healthcare.

Eliminate 3rd parties
Get government and insurance companies out of health care.


Your bills are between you and your health care provider. Want smaller medical expenses? Live healthier.

I am all for some sort government assistance plans I am not for subsidizing the health insurance industry, which is all ACA is.
You get sick and have a doctor visit to pay for? You take your paperwork to the health depth and ask for help.

 

[Lambie]

One thing I don't like about insurance companies (among many things) that I wouldn't want to have if those were eliminated, is having non-doctors approving a procedure before it can happen!! I hate getting pre-authorizations from my insurance company before I get a biopsy for cancer, or for the surgery itself. It's a waste of my time!

I have a friend in the UK who loves that all his medical bills are paid, but wow, he had to wait months...MONTHS...for a letter of approval to get gallbladder surgery. What?? I mean, what??? His doctor deemed that it was necessary, so why can't the doctors be listened to?

 

[miamited]

Get government and insurance companies out of health care.

So you believe that we should all just pay our medical bills as we go? No insurance to cover large surgery costs and lab tests and so forth. No government intervention on the matter at all. Just like buying a ream of paper. You pay what it costs and move on.

You take your paperwork to the health depth and ask for help.

But, isn't the health dept. a government entity? I thought you said the government should stay out of it. But anyway, your view is that if a person has a $10,000 surgery and they can't afford to pay it, they should go stand in line at the health dept. with their hand out instead of the government just giving people the assurance that their medical costs won't carry them off to the poor house.

I had a fall two years ago and tore my rotator cuff. Fixing it so I could use my arm again cost upwards of $20,000 according to what was billed. You believe people should just have that kind of money set aside for such emergencies or go to the health dept. after getting the surgery and beg for help?

And I'm not saying that it's wrong, but I do see that putting us back where we were before the ACA. With millions upon millions of people who don't have the wherewithal to pay for anything higher than a standard doctor's office visit. The result of that is that a lot of people will die, or be much sicker, that may have had longer lives if they'd been able to afford to have their medical needs paid for.

What was happening before, and the whole reason that healthcare was such a big deal back in 2011, was that people without any kind of insurance to pay for their medical bills were waiting until they were so sick that they had to go to the ER, where medical costs are exorbitant and the hospital was stuck with the bill. The thinking then was the if we could make medical insurance coverage affordable, then more people would have it and the insurance company, not the hospital, would cover medical cost. So that's what the ACA did. It provided premium assistance so that more people could afford medical insurance and therefore not leave the hospital, and eventually the public at large, with these really high ER bills for treating common colds that had been allowed to become pneumonia because the person couldn't afford to go to just a regular doctor's office for care before it became pneumonia.

But as a believer I can see your point. Some do go with the, "God will fix it or they'll die" attitude concerning their medical needs.

 

[onlysaved]

So you believe that we should all just pay our medical bills as we go? No insurance to cover large surgery costs and lab tests and so forth. No government intervention on the matter at all. Just like buying a ream of paper. You pay what it costs and move on.

But, isn't the health dept. a government entity? I thought you said the government should stay out of it. But anyway, your view is that if a person has a $10,000 surgery and they can't afford to pay it, they should go stand in line at the health dept. with their hand out instead of the government just giving people the assurance that their medical costs won't carry them off to the poor house.

I had a fall two years ago and tore my rotator cuff. Fixing it so I could use my arm again cost upwards of $20,000 according to what was billed. You believe people should just have that kind of money set aside for such emergencies or go to the health dept. after getting the surgery and beg for help?

And I'm not saying that it's wrong, but I do see that putting us back where we were before the ACA. With millions upon millions of people who don't have the wherewithal to pay for anything higher than a standard doctor's office visit. The result of that is that a lot of people will die, or be much sicker, that may have had longer lives if they'd been able to afford to have their medical needs paid for.

What was happening before, and the whole reason that healthcare was such a big deal back in 2011, was that people without any kind of insurance to pay for their medical bills were waiting until they were so sick that they had to go to the ER, where medical costs are exorbitant and the hospital was stuck with the bill. The thinking then was the if we could make medical insurance coverage affordable, then more people would have it and the insurance company, not the hospital, would cover medical cost. So that's what the ACA did. It provided premium assistance so that more people could afford medical insurance and therefore not leave the hospital, and eventually the public at large, with these really high ER bills for treating common colds that had been allowed to become pneumonia because the person couldn't afford to go to just a regular doctor's office for care before it became pneumonia.

But as a believer I can see your point. Some do go with the, "God will fix it or they'll die" attitude concerning their medical needs.

I think getting rid of government and insurance companies will drive costs down. Costs for Healthcare have sky rocketed since ACA became law biggest scam ever.

Yes, you should be responsible for your own health care costs, in general, there should be some assistance for those who need it.

6 years ago I spent 3 days in the hospital, needlessly in my opinion but that's another issue,. I had no health insurance. Bill was over 30 grand, paid it off in 4 years. Same with my wife's cancer surgury..
There are soon many private entities out there to help with medical bills we simply don't need insurance companies driving up costs. There is already help, if you're willing to look for it.. Most importantly, people who choose to live healthy lifestyles shouldn't be forced to pay for people who choose not to.

 

[Freedomtofly]

One thing I don't like about insurance companies (among many things) that I wouldn't want to have if those were eliminated, is having non-doctors approving a procedure before it can happen!! I hate getting pre-authorizations from my insurance company before I get a biopsy for cancer, or for the surgery itself. It's a waste of my time!

I have a friend in the UK who loves that all his medical bills are paid, but wow, he had to wait months...MONTHS...for a letter of approval to get gallbladder surgery. What?? I mean, what??? His doctor deemed that it was necessary, so why can't the doctors be listened to?

This is sadly the down side of the NHS at the moment, the waiting time. Gps can’t just authorise surgery you have to be referred to a consultant who then makes the decision as to whether he/ she agrees with the diagnosis. This applies to everything - and it’s always been that way. The waiting times for referrals use to be weeks but over the years, more so since covid, it’s taking much longer.
The whole point about the NHS was that everyone could access treatment ect regardless of financial or social status , this is why it was first introduced. The national insurence was introduced to cover the cost. I think I paid about 60pounds out of my monthly wages of about 1,200 pounds - so it’s wasn’t that much compared to the cost of operations and treatments.
Germany has a much better and more organised system, they have to pay a little bit more but it does seem to be more efficient than our NHS

 

[miamited]

I think getting rid of government and insurance companies will drive costs down. Costs for Healthcare have sky rocketed since ACA became law biggest scam ever.

While I understand that's what you think, but do you have any evidence that what you think is the truth of the matter? For example: You say that medical costs have sky rocketed since the ACA, but why is it that you think the ACA is to blame for those higher costs? I mean, everything else has gone up in the last 10 years, why wouldn't medical costs go up also? And I'm pretty sure that the reason that everything has gone up for the last 10 years has nothing to do with the ACA. Do you believe that the reason you're paying more for meat today is because of the ACA?

And, if getting rid of the government and insurance companies would bring costs down, is it going to be able to bring costs down to where a parent making $15/hr can afford to take their children for their check ups and shots and other medical needs? Personally, while I'm sure that insurance companies do add something to our medical costs, I believe the doctor making a $150k salary and the MRI machine that costs $1m and all the nurse practitioners and other office personnel making $70k probably add a lot to the final cost, also. Or do you envision a scenario where all of those people work on a volunteer basis and the company that makes the MRI machine should just give it away as a nice gesture when a hospital or imaging center needs an MRI machine? I mean, that would likely bring medical costs down considerably if everyone didn't get paid for their work.

Yes, healthcare is expensive. It stands right up there with legal fees. Many, many, many people can't afford either. However, I question the logic that says the expensiveness is due to the ACA. It's my honest understanding that medical costs were waaaay high long before the ACA came around. In fact, I believe the reason the ACA came into being was BECAUSE medical costs were outrageous and people were sticking hospitals with the bill.

 

[jasonc]

cancer is seldom covered at length by insurance.

that said the exchange when I didn't have indurance

pay 6000 a year for a. 10000 deductable with subdized insurance that was in 2024:

 

[jasonc]

The Canadian State Is Euthanizing Its Poor and Disabled

Canada boasts one of the world’s highest assisted-death rates, supposedly enabling the terminally ill to die with dignity. However, this suicide program increasingly resembles a dystopian replacement for care services, exchanging social welfare for euthanasia.

jacobin.com

 

[miamited]

Hey jasonc
So, you do/don't want government sponsored or supported health insurance? You and your wife are now on Medicare now, right? Seems like I've seen you write about that. Do you support or not that the government should have a hand in people's healthcare costs? And, for those of us on Medicare, are we ok if the government withdraws from that support also. We go out and have to buy insurance or go without on the open health insurance market like everyone else.

Do the Canadian taxpayers pay for that through their taxes or is that there choice when they get to where they aren't able to pay their bills. I always have to ask 'why' someone wants to kill themselves. Now, many may have a good reason, at least to them. Maybe they are suffering some sickness that they know is going to be a bad way to die. Unlike the rest of us who are still doing 200 push-ups and sit-ups a day when we die.

Is your point here that you don't or do want any healthcare assistance that our government might offer to include self-directed suicide?

 

[jasonc]

Hey jasonc
So, you do/don't want government sponsored or supported health insurance? You and your wife are now on Medicare now, right? Seems like I've seen you write about that. Do you support or not that the government should have a hand in people's healthcare costs? And, for those of us on Medicare, are we ok if the government withdraws from that support also. We go out and have to buy insurance or go without on the open health insurance market like everyone else.

Do the Canadian taxpayers pay for that through their taxes or is that there choice when they get to where they aren't able to pay their bills. I always have to ask 'why' someone wants to kill themselves. Now, many may have a good reason, at least to them. Maybe they are suffering some sickness that they know is going to be a bad way to die. Unlike the rest of us who are still doing 200 push-ups and sit-ups a day when we die.

Is your point here that you don't or do want any healthcare assistance that our government might offer to include self-directed suicide?

the govt will not even be able to fund ss or Medicare in a mere decade .not enough new workers from low birth rates and Oregon and liberal states pvt and Medicare already do assisted suicide .

you can't argue I should stay in a country or county and be taxed to the point of I will work simply to give the IRS more then I would simply be able to make it worth it..

in order to bother with my part time job .I would owe the IRS 5 grand out of one check plus pay more for her as only to work twenty plus more a week for at the most five grand more a year .

not worth that .I plan to quit that this year .the whole point was to have extra money not simply give it to the IRS like that .I can cut back .

that I mention because the govt sees all on mefucare and vets as cost equations .try pulling teeth for a simple stress test with VA . I would have to drive over an hour ,loos money for that trip .if I even get seen at all versus my insurance I got now .I was asked if you want a test ASAP .the Dr you mentioned is easily scheduled

now then the argument of well they will flood hospitals and bankrupt then is moot .even under the aca with Biden local lawnwood is sold and it's parent group filed bankruptcy .Cleveland clinic wanted to sell the local hospital .loosing money .Orlando etc bought lawnwood group out .Cleveland irc delayed it's closing and is asking money despite not even owning or renting it's building . I know a bit about that .behind always on utilities .has been under Obama . even with the aca.

the VA soured me on any govt funded insurance .Medicare isn't taken outside of local hospital groups here . many doctors refuse it because of the lag of paying them back .

Oregon Health Authority : Frequently Asked Questions : Death with Dignity Act : State of Oregon

Frequently asked questions about Oregon's Death with Dignity Act

www.oregon.gov

state not pvt
canada has said that saves money .

I don't want that but you can't tax the elderly or the healthy more and expect they will just stay at some point like me they will change behavior and find a cheaper place to live after cut spending

my asthma meds wouldn't be covered under that plan . work and make money and that was best and I was only making 35 grand that last year before I went to my current job that year. advair a month would be 200 irc not counting the levothyroxine which is close to that per month without insurance .

 

[miamited]

hi jasonc I suppose that all makes sense to you as regards what you'd like to see in our healthcare. I'm sorry, but I'm having a really tough time deciphering the data.