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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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"What Happened to the Sinner at the Point of Salvation?
- Thread starter AVBunyan
- Start date
S
SputnikBoy
Guest
Re: "What Happened to the Sinner at the Point of Salvat
AVBunyan said:
C
cj
Guest
Full salvation is a process.
First a man believes and confesses Jesus is Lord by the hearing of faith and the power of God working within this man.
Then immediately this man receives a regenerated spirit into which God comes to live.
Over time, through the outward circumstances prepared/allowed by God the fallenness of this man is revealed to him (a little at a time) and God in him, in his regenerated spirit, will empower him to turn and repent/reject of his condition and in doing so become desperate for something better. This desperation opens the way for God to flow as Living Water from His dwelling place in this man's spirit, into his soul (mind/emotion/will) renewing all that It (the Living Water) touches, and in effect flushing out the death that is to be found in the unregenerated soul of saved men.
But some are very stubborn and refuse to be humbled and turn, preferring to take their own way, and these, though not eternally lost, will loose their reward and will for a time experience disciplining in the age to come.
For scripture tells us that obedience is only learned through suffering.
Every saint (believer) will be perfected, either in the time we have on this earth or in the time to come.
So, what happened at the point of salvation?
We received a regenerated spirit in which the all-inclusive God lives.
This all-inclusive God contains the life that is needed to complete the process of full salvation. It is like the life that is the essence of a seed that will cause this small seed to eventually become a full expression of all that it contains; a wonderful tree.
A tree is not something different from the seed, it is simply the full expression of the life the seed contains.
Perhaps a good way to describe/define what happens at the point of salvation is to say that we receive the indestructible seed of life.
A seed that has only one purpose,.... to express God in men.
In love,
cj
First a man believes and confesses Jesus is Lord by the hearing of faith and the power of God working within this man.
Then immediately this man receives a regenerated spirit into which God comes to live.
Over time, through the outward circumstances prepared/allowed by God the fallenness of this man is revealed to him (a little at a time) and God in him, in his regenerated spirit, will empower him to turn and repent/reject of his condition and in doing so become desperate for something better. This desperation opens the way for God to flow as Living Water from His dwelling place in this man's spirit, into his soul (mind/emotion/will) renewing all that It (the Living Water) touches, and in effect flushing out the death that is to be found in the unregenerated soul of saved men.
But some are very stubborn and refuse to be humbled and turn, preferring to take their own way, and these, though not eternally lost, will loose their reward and will for a time experience disciplining in the age to come.
For scripture tells us that obedience is only learned through suffering.
Every saint (believer) will be perfected, either in the time we have on this earth or in the time to come.
So, what happened at the point of salvation?
We received a regenerated spirit in which the all-inclusive God lives.
This all-inclusive God contains the life that is needed to complete the process of full salvation. It is like the life that is the essence of a seed that will cause this small seed to eventually become a full expression of all that it contains; a wonderful tree.
A tree is not something different from the seed, it is simply the full expression of the life the seed contains.
Perhaps a good way to describe/define what happens at the point of salvation is to say that we receive the indestructible seed of life.
A seed that has only one purpose,.... to express God in men.
In love,
cj
T
thessalonian
Guest
Cj,
You believe in purgatory my friend. Your statement sums up the essentials of the doctrine. You just don't like the word. :-D
You believe in purgatory my friend. Your statement sums up the essentials of the doctrine. You just don't like the word. :-D
T
thessalonian
Guest
Um, Heidi,
This is a discussion board. Often discussion is started by asking a question. Teachers ask questions of their class. If the teacher asks what is 2 + 2, is it because she doesn't know the answer is 4? No, it is to prompt thought and to see the level of understanding. It is to dialogue and come to help others come to conclusions. While I may not agree completely with AV's answer on this question I am quite certain that is what he is about doing in this thread. Your put down as if your PERSONAL OPINIONS for everything are superior is duly noted.
This is a discussion board. Often discussion is started by asking a question. Teachers ask questions of their class. If the teacher asks what is 2 + 2, is it because she doesn't know the answer is 4? No, it is to prompt thought and to see the level of understanding. It is to dialogue and come to help others come to conclusions. While I may not agree completely with AV's answer on this question I am quite certain that is what he is about doing in this thread. Your put down as if your PERSONAL OPINIONS for everything are superior is duly noted.
O
Orthodox Christian
Guest
Re: "What Happened to the Sinner at the Point of Salvat
I think he's asking what others believe on this matter, for purposes of discussion and/or debate. I don't think he's indicated that he "doesn't know."Heidi said:AVBunyan said:
You don't know? :o I guess that confirms for me that you haven't received the Holy Spirit, my friend.
Re: "What Happened to the Sinner at the Point of Salvat
I probably need to clarify - the purpose of my post was to see what others believe and then I will post mine - I thought my stand has been clear after 3 years but maybe not.
Heidi - I trust you are jesting - please just search my previous posts on this forum and you will find that I have a stand on this and have supported it over and over with much scripture.Heidi said:AVBunyan said:
You don't know? :o I guess that confirms for me that you haven't received the Holy Spirit, my friend.
I probably need to clarify - the purpose of my post was to see what others believe and then I will post mine - I thought my stand has been clear after 3 years but maybe not.
K
kwag_myers
Guest
There are several scriptures which talk about outer darkeness, and not entering in. Matthew 8:12; 22:11-13; 25:30 (to name a few).Thessalonian said:
Matthew 22:11-13 is a good example. Here we have someone who was invited in, but did not have the proper attire. What is the proper attire? Revelation 19:8.
Matthew 7:21-23. I like this version of verse 23, "But I will reply, `I never knew you. Go away; the things you did were unauthorized.'" Once you become a Christian, you can't just do your own thing. You must seek out what God would have you do.
Re: "What Happened to the Sinner at the Point of Salvat
Sorry, Av. I thought this was posted by Thessalonian which colored my view of it.
: I have no doubts about your salvation. Forgive me? :-?
Scripture says we become a new creation. The old is gone and the new has come. Once we receive the Holy Spirit we will feel the fruits of the Spirit which are; love, joy, peace, hope, patience, self-control, etc. We will also go to heaven, as Jesus tells us in John. "Now eternal life is this; that they know the one true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent." After receiving the Holy Spirit, the Spirit in us now has victory over the devil. When we sin, the Holy Spirit convicts us so that our least stressful option is to respond to the Spirit. And that is why those who receive the Holy Spirit have root and we can never be snatched out of his hand.
AVBunyan said:Heidi - I trust you are jesting - please just search my previous posts on this forum and you will find that I have a stand on this and have supported it over and over with much scripture.Heidi said:AVBunyan said:
You don't know? :o I guess that confirms for me that you haven't received the Holy Spirit, my friend.
I probably need to clarify - the purpse of my post was to see what others believe and then I will post mine - I thought my stand has been clear after 3 years but maybe not.
Sorry, Av. I thought this was posted by Thessalonian which colored my view of it.
: I have no doubts about your salvation. Forgive me? :-? Scripture says we become a new creation. The old is gone and the new has come. Once we receive the Holy Spirit we will feel the fruits of the Spirit which are; love, joy, peace, hope, patience, self-control, etc. We will also go to heaven, as Jesus tells us in John. "Now eternal life is this; that they know the one true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent." After receiving the Holy Spirit, the Spirit in us now has victory over the devil. When we sin, the Holy Spirit convicts us so that our least stressful option is to respond to the Spirit. And that is why those who receive the Holy Spirit have root and we can never be snatched out of his hand.
Re: "What Happened to the Sinner at the Point of Salvat
I thought you knew I had posted my stand - that's why I was taken back.
What I am looking for is the doctrine behind the salvation using doctrinal terms.
What doctrinally happened from's God's viewpoint?
should be an interesting excercise.
God bless 8-)
No apology needed - I understand, especailly considering what you were thinking.Heidi said:Sorry, Av. I thought this was posted by Thessalonian which colored my view of it.
I thought you knew I had posted my stand - that's why I was taken back.
What I am looking for is the doctrine behind the salvation using doctrinal terms.
What doctrinally happened from's God's viewpoint?
should be an interesting excercise.
God bless 8-)
Re: "What Happened to the Sinner at the Point of Salvat
The law was fulfilled at the moment of Christ's death. He became our permanent atonement for sin. We now come to him for forgiveness and that forgiveness gives us love which enables us to obey the law. And that's why Christ fulfills the law far better than we ever could! Once we receive the Holy Spirit, we are freed from being ruled by the desire to sin. That is the new convenant sealed with Christ's blood. The old covenant law is just as valid, but the difference is now in how we obey it.
But I sense, that you are looking for a particular answer which led you to ask the question. You are free to share what you were thinking.
AVBunyan said:No apology needed - I understand, especailly considering what you were thinking.Heidi said:Sorry, Av. I thought this was posted by Thessalonian which colored my view of it.
I thought you knew I had posted my stand - that's why I was taken back.
What I am looking for is the doctrine behind the salvation using doctrinal terms.
What doctrinally happened from's God's viewpoint?
should be an interesting excercise.
God bless 8-)
The law was fulfilled at the moment of Christ's death. He became our permanent atonement for sin. We now come to him for forgiveness and that forgiveness gives us love which enables us to obey the law. And that's why Christ fulfills the law far better than we ever could! Once we receive the Holy Spirit, we are freed from being ruled by the desire to sin. That is the new convenant sealed with Christ's blood. The old covenant law is just as valid, but the difference is now in how we obey it.
But I sense, that you are looking for a particular answer which led you to ask the question. You are free to share what you were thinking.
A
AwedbyGod
Guest
Re: "What Happened to the Sinner at the Point of Salvat
So let me get this straight, you assumed this was Thessalonian so immediately leapt to the conclusion that he didn't receive the Holy Spirit? You make a fine representative. :roll:
So let me get this straight, you assumed this was Thessalonian so immediately leapt to the conclusion that he didn't receive the Holy Spirit? You make a fine representative. :roll:
[/quote]Sorry, Av. I thought this was posted by Thessalonian which colored my view of it.
T
thessalonian
Guest
Avbunyan = Thessalonian???? :o :-?
Sounds like a whopper but I guess I'll give you the benefit of a doudt.
Yes, we know that Protestants, even if they are oneness have the Holy Spirit while all Catholics don't. Your judgement of me is rather unimportant Heidi.
Av- Are you oneness? How do your feel about Heidi's rejection of the trinity? Can one who denies the trinity be born again?
Sounds like a whopper but I guess I'll give you the benefit of a doudt.
Yes, we know that Protestants, even if they are oneness have the Holy Spirit while all Catholics don't. Your judgement of me is rather unimportant Heidi.
Av- Are you oneness? How do your feel about Heidi's rejection of the trinity? Can one who denies the trinity be born again?
Oneness
1. No
2. Don't know all what everybody believes here but If she denies the trinity then on that point we are in major disagreement.
3. Good question - while I feel that is not a presrequisite for the sinner to understand prior to salvation I would think a saved person would not reject that - let me ponder that one a bit.
God bless
Thessalonian said:
1. No
2. Don't know all what everybody believes here but If she denies the trinity then on that point we are in major disagreement.
3. Good question - while I feel that is not a presrequisite for the sinner to understand prior to salvation I would think a saved person would not reject that - let me ponder that one a bit.
God bless
T
thessalonian
Guest
AV,
I may be wrong about Heidi. I think I have her confused with someone else. :-D Heidi, if I am wrong and you are trinitarian, apologies.
I may be wrong about Heidi. I think I have her confused with someone else. :-D Heidi, if I am wrong and you are trinitarian, apologies.
C
cj
Guest
Thessalonian said:
Thessalonian, as I keep telling OC, I believe I am far more orthodox than many who claim to be such.
But to your above thoughts......
"You believe in purgatory my friend...."
So, am I now your "friend" because you think you have found common doctrinal ground with me?
I wonder how much consideration you give to your speaking before you actually speak.
Anyway,..... my newly found friend Thess,..... Fortunately for me the answer is no, I don't "believe" in the false doctrine of purgatory.
And why?
Because this false doctrine issues from the mixing of a truth with the product of evil motives.
Or in other words, the doctrine of purgatory is leavened fine flour, good only to be thrown out.
"Your statement sums up the essentials of the doctrine."
Very good observation, but fortunately, what I have left out is the non-essential apostate teachings, forms, and traditions that have been heaped into the mix.
Hear me, if the Romanist were to simplify their stand to nothing but Christ there would be great rejoicing in the heavens and here on earth.
But alas, scritures tells us that some men will not be humbled, and so the apostasy and all that is evil with it will continue for a time.
"You just don't like the word."
The word is nothing, what I hate is the evil source from which the word finds its substance.
In love,
cj
T
thessalonian
Guest
Cj
:
No, you believe in purgatory. I hardly need another who holds my theologies though I wish you did. I can find them in the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 10th, 15th centuries and today all over the world. But you and others on this board are off doing your own thing with the Bible and the only real commanality between you is some niceties about belief in a name. See my division thread. Oh, by the way did you catch it when I posted this verse before it was deleted:
Mark 13
[21] And then if any one says to you, `Look, here is the Christ!' or `Look, there he is!' do not believe it.
So many people telling me on these boards, "look here is the Christ" and giving me some theology that contradicts everyone else. I am amazed at how truth the Bible is when understood in light of the Catholic faith.
: No, you believe in purgatory. I hardly need another who holds my theologies though I wish you did. I can find them in the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 10th, 15th centuries and today all over the world. But you and others on this board are off doing your own thing with the Bible and the only real commanality between you is some niceties about belief in a name. See my division thread. Oh, by the way did you catch it when I posted this verse before it was deleted:
Mark 13
[21] And then if any one says to you, `Look, here is the Christ!' or `Look, there he is!' do not believe it.
So many people telling me on these boards, "look here is the Christ" and giving me some theology that contradicts everyone else. I am amazed at how truth the Bible is when understood in light of the Catholic faith.
O
Orthodox Christian
Guest
I'm not sure, Thess, but I think CJ has basically said that you guys have it wrong. He gives no rationale for this position, other than some discussion of what may be a recipe for bread.
Fortunately for him, he seems to have access to the Holy Spirit in ways you and I only dream of- for he, himself, is able to single-handedly test that which is pure and that which is 'leavened.'
I pointed out to him before that his eschatology points to a sort of purgatory, but he didn't like it any more then than now. In his response to me, he referred to me as a slave to the Evil One.
Errant baker vs slave to Satan- you're in good graces, relatively speaking.
Mark 13 reads "there is the anointed" or "I am anointed." (This, as we know, is what Christos means). Many who are not actually claiming to be Jesus are INDEED claiming to be anointed.
Apostolic Christians, let none deceive you- especially those that cloak themselves in the mantle of the prophet.
Fortunately for him, he seems to have access to the Holy Spirit in ways you and I only dream of- for he, himself, is able to single-handedly test that which is pure and that which is 'leavened.'
I pointed out to him before that his eschatology points to a sort of purgatory, but he didn't like it any more then than now. In his response to me, he referred to me as a slave to the Evil One.
Errant baker vs slave to Satan- you're in good graces, relatively speaking.
Mark 13 reads "there is the anointed" or "I am anointed." (This, as we know, is what Christos means). Many who are not actually claiming to be Jesus are INDEED claiming to be anointed.
Apostolic Christians, let none deceive you- especially those that cloak themselves in the mantle of the prophet.