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Bible Study What In The World Is FAITH?

Chopper

Member
So many of my Brothers and Sisters don't really know what is "faith" and how to project our mustard seed amount of faith in order to accomplish what we determine, in the Ruach Kodesh (Holy Spirit), that Elohim (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) wants done to glorify His Name, and come to the aid of His Children.

I am in the process of learning the Paleo Hebrew of the most ancient writings of YHWH (Yahweh). A study of the original otiot symbols which are what Yahweh wrote on the tablets He gave to Moses. This study is so important to Eastern thought, our Western mind set needs to change for a more accurate understanding of Elohim's Word. I'm pleased to present to those who read my posts, some new info, leading us away from pagan words to words which will bless our worthy Majesty on high.

What is a better translation for the word "faith"? It is "belief", take a few minutes to think how belief make more concrete sense.


Exodus 3:4 "And when Yahweh saw that he turned aside to see, Elohim called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.
3:5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.
3:6 Moreover he said, I am the Elohim of thy father, the Elohim of Abraham, the Elohim of Isaac, and the Elohim of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon Elohim.
3:7 And Yahweh said, I have surely seen the affliction of my people which are in Egypt, and have heard their cry by reason of their taskmasters; for I know their sorrows;
3:8 And I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up out of that land unto a good land and a large, unto a land flowing with milk and honey; unto the place of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites.
3:9 Now therefore, behold, the cry of the children of Israel is come unto me: and I have also seen the oppression wherewith the Egyptians oppress them.
3:10 Come now therefore, and I will send thee unto Pharaoh, that thou mayest bring forth my people the children of Israel out of Egypt.
3:11 And Moses said unto Elohim, Who am I, that I should go unto Pharaoh, and that I should bring forth the children of Israel out of Egypt?
3:12 And he said, Certainly I will be with thee; and this shall be a token unto thee, that I have sent thee: When thou hast brought forth the people out of Egypt, ye shall serve Elohim upon this mountain."


Now, my point is, Moses didn't do what Elohim commanded Moses to do out of faith, no no, Moses did what Elohim commanded because He believed Elohim with his whole heart.
 
Hi Chopper,

I have often read on this forum how the word Believe and Faith mean two separate ideas.
To me, they have always been one and the same.

If I have faith that the elevator will take me up,
I believe the elevator will take me up.

If I believe in Jesus I also have faith in Him,
If I have faith in Him I will also believe in Him.

Another interesting thought is that believe has within it the idea of obeying in the Hebrew.

1. Greek #3982
peitho (pi'-tho)
Definition: “A primary verb; to convince (by argument, true or false); by analogy to
pacify or conciliate (by other fair means); reflexively or passively to assent (to
evidence or authority), to rely (by inward certainty)”
Translated: “agree, assure, believe, have confidence, be (wax) content, make friend,
obey, persuade, trust, yield”

2. Greek #3980
peitharcheo (pi-tharkh-eh'-o)
Definition: “From a compound of G3982 and G757; to be persuaded by a ruler, that
is, (generally) to submit to authority; by analogy to conform to advice.”
[G757 definition = “A primary verb; to be first (in political rank or power)”]
Translated: “hearken, obey (magistrates)”

Source: https://www.ekklesia4him.net/Obey_study.pdf

Believe might be preferable because we also have to obey.
OTOH, if we have faith in someone, we will obey them also.

As you can see, my understanding of the two words seems to be that it's the same.
I look forward to reading this thread...
 
So many of my Brothers and Sisters don't really know what is "faith" and how to project our mustard seed amount of faith in order to accomplish what we determine, in the Ruach Kodesh (Holy Spirit), that Elohim (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) wants done to glorify His Name, and come to the aid of His Children.

I am in the process of learning the Paleo Hebrew of the most ancient writings of YHWH (Yahweh). A study of the original otiot symbols which are what Yahweh wrote on the tablets He gave to Moses. This study is so important to Eastern thought, our Western mind set needs to change for a more accurate understanding of Elohim's Word. I'm pleased to present to those who read my posts, some new info, leading us away from pagan words to words which will bless our worthy Majesty on high.

What is a better translation for the word "faith"? It is "belief", take a few minutes to think how belief make more concrete sense.


Exodus 3:4 "And when Yahweh saw that he turned aside to see, Elohim called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.
3:5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.
3:6 Moreover he said, I am the Elohim of thy father, the Elohim of Abraham, the Elohim of Isaac, and the Elohim of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon Elohim.
3:7 And Yahweh said, I have surely seen the affliction of my people which are in Egypt, and have heard their cry by reason of their taskmasters; for I know their sorrows;
3:8 And I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up out of that land unto a good land and a large, unto a land flowing with milk and honey; unto the place of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites.
3:9 Now therefore, behold, the cry of the children of Israel is come unto me: and I have also seen the oppression wherewith the Egyptians oppress them.
3:10 Come now therefore, and I will send thee unto Pharaoh, that thou mayest bring forth my people the children of Israel out of Egypt.
3:11 And Moses said unto Elohim, Who am I, that I should go unto Pharaoh, and that I should bring forth the children of Israel out of Egypt?
3:12 And he said, Certainly I will be with thee; and this shall be a token unto thee, that I have sent thee: When thou hast brought forth the people out of Egypt, ye shall serve Elohim upon this mountain."


Now, my point is, Moses didn't do what Elohim commanded Moses to do out of faith, no no, Moses did what Elohim commanded because He believed Elohim with his whole heart.
Amen and again I shout Amen! My perpetual prayer is for Elohim teach me better and more reverential ways of Worship, ways that show His majesty. The irreverence abounds in the Church, as it does in our homes to day. We no longer teach our families that the Lord of our house, our families is to never disrespect him, never to tread on his Second, to fear them in the way that everyone knows that ou love them ad never want to be guilty of hurting them.

Great lesson, Chlopper!
 
So many of my Brothers and Sisters don't really know what is "faith" and how to project our mustard seed amount of faith in order to accomplish what we determine, in the Ruach Kodesh (Holy Spirit), that Elohim (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) wants done to glorify His Name, and come to the aid of His Children.

I am in the process of learning the Paleo Hebrew of the most ancient writings of YHWH (Yahweh). A study of the original otiot symbols which are what Yahweh wrote on the tablets He gave to Moses. This study is so important to Eastern thought, our Western mind set needs to change for a more accurate understanding of Elohim's Word. I'm pleased to present to those who read my posts, some new info, leading us away from pagan words to words which will bless our worthy Majesty on high.

What is a better translation for the word "faith"? It is "belief", take a few minutes to think how belief make more concrete sense.


Exodus 3:4 "And when Yahweh saw that he turned aside to see, Elohim called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.
3:5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.
3:6 Moreover he said, I am the Elohim of thy father, the Elohim of Abraham, the Elohim of Isaac, and the Elohim of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon Elohim.
3:7 And Yahweh said, I have surely seen the affliction of my people which are in Egypt, and have heard their cry by reason of their taskmasters; for I know their sorrows;
3:8 And I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up out of that land unto a good land and a large, unto a land flowing with milk and honey; unto the place of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites.
3:9 Now therefore, behold, the cry of the children of Israel is come unto me: and I have also seen the oppression wherewith the Egyptians oppress them.
3:10 Come now therefore, and I will send thee unto Pharaoh, that thou mayest bring forth my people the children of Israel out of Egypt.
3:11 And Moses said unto Elohim, Who am I, that I should go unto Pharaoh, and that I should bring forth the children of Israel out of Egypt?
3:12 And he said, Certainly I will be with thee; and this shall be a token unto thee, that I have sent thee: When thou hast brought forth the people out of Egypt, ye shall serve Elohim upon this mountain."


Now, my point is, Moses didn't do what Elohim commanded Moses to do out of faith, no no, Moses did what Elohim commanded because He believed Elohim with his whole heart.

But does belief grow? Faith however does.

2 Cor. 10: 15 not glorying beyond our measure, that is, in other men’s labors; but having hope that, as your faith groweth, we shall be magnified in you according to our province unto further abundance.

I once had a woman who suffered a haranging spirit of darkness, that every time she would leave the house this spirit would so attack her she had to return to the house for it to stop the haranging. She tried prayer, doctors, psychologists, everything..!
I had been teaching bible studies way off in the countryside, and to make a long story short, this woman showed up. She didn't know where I was, but she said the Lord told her to get in her car and follow the light, she did, and it led right to the farm where I was. She said the Lord told her that I would have the answer to her problem.
As she told me what was happening the Lord laid this verse on my spirit, " He has not given us a spirit of fear, but love, Joy, and a sound mind." I told her to take this word from the Lord as a cup, and put that little bit of faith you have in the cup. And when that spirit starts to harang you, stick that cup right in its face. The next week I heard that she was free at long last, able to go where ever she pleased...!
Belief is like being pregnant , you either are, or your not. Faith however grows as a mustard seed, till it is huge as a tree, that birds can nest in. Also faith is that which the Spirit enables. 1Cor, 12: 8 For to one is given through the Spirit the word of wisdom; and to another the word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit:
9 to another faith, in the same Spirit; and to another gifts of healings, in the one Spirit;

In Love. BarElohim
 
But does belief grow? ...
Belief can grow until it becomes obvious, then there is no longer a need to believe in it.
Example: We don't look in the mirror and say "I believe that it is me", in fact we may not say anything because it is obvious to us that the reflection is us.
 
3 For I say, through the grace that was given me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but so to think as to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to each man a measure of faith.
Heb. 11: 1 Now faith is assurance of things hoped for, a conviction of things not seen.

Faith is the evidence, the assurance, the conviction............
Faith without works is,,,,,,,,,,just belief.

I believe,, help thou my unbelief...
 
Belief can grow until it becomes obvious, then there is no longer a need to believe in it.
Example: We don't look in the mirror and say "I believe that it is me", in fact we may not say anything because it is obvious to us that the reflection is us.
I agree with you.
Faith can grow.
Belief can grow.

How much belief does one have in a new employee?
Not too much.
As he does his work well, the belief in him grows.

As does the faith in him...
 
Hi Chopper,

I have often read on this forum how the word Believe and Faith mean two separate ideas.
To me, they have always been one and the same.

If I have faith that the elevator will take me up,
I believe the elevator will take me up.

If I believe in Jesus I also have faith in Him,
If I have faith in Him I will also believe in Him.

Another interesting thought is that believe has within it the idea of obeying in the Hebrew.

1. Greek #3982
peitho (pi'-tho)
Definition: “A primary verb; to convince (by argument, true or false); by analogy to
pacify or conciliate (by other fair means); reflexively or passively to assent (to
evidence or authority), to rely (by inward certainty)”
Translated: “agree, assure, believe, have confidence, be (wax) content, make friend,
obey, persuade, trust, yield”

2. Greek #3980
peitharcheo (pi-tharkh-eh'-o)
Definition: “From a compound of G3982 and G757; to be persuaded by a ruler, that
is, (generally) to submit to authority; by analogy to conform to advice.”
[G757 definition = “A primary verb; to be first (in political rank or power)”]
Translated: “hearken, obey (magistrates)”

Source: https://www.ekklesia4him.net/Obey_study.pdf

Believe might be preferable because we also have to obey.
OTOH, if we have faith in someone, we will obey them also.

As you can see, my understanding of the two words seems to be that it's the same.
I look forward to reading this thread...

Thank you Hon for spending your time to research and post your thoughts on Faith & Belief. You are absolutely correct. The two words are the same. I'm just a simple Maine Country Pastor of small churches of which Yahshua worked miracles thru me in spite of my pride.

I like the word believe because it's easier for my pea brain to become more obedient to what Abba Father wants from me.

You have a lot of godly wisdom and I'm always happy to see your responses to my posts. You're a very good friend, and Sister in our journey from here to there. It'll be so nice to sit on a bench by the crystal sea and remember the differences between the two.

Love You,
Chopper :hug
 
Faith means the trustworthiness or reliance on Gods word for his salvation for us who believe in him. It's a belief in the promises and blessings of his word and applying his word to our daily walk with him by seeing the confidence in the testimony of others.

The nature of faith is seen through the fruits of the Spirit, which are love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, and temperance, which these fruits brings about kindness, self control and faithfulness through the works of God that comes from our heart.

Faith gives us freedom from condemnation and freedom of salvation through adoption as we become one body in the Lord as we walk by faith, live by faith, pray by faith and resist evil by faith. By faith we are an overcomer of this world as we stand fast and are grounded in Gods word knowing we have assurance of all of his promises that makes us victorious in all things here on earth by us applying his word to our lives to know for a surety that he will never leave us or forsake us.

Faith is a living reality in ones life through Gods service by declaring his word as we bear witness to his name by the mighty works he has done. It’s not even our faith, but that of Jesus who is our faith as we believe in who he has said he was and to the glory and honor that he has brought before the Father through his life, death and resurrection that we to can become heirs to the throne of grace by coming boldly to his throne and surrendering all of us to him to be Lord and Savior of our life.
Hebrews Chapter 11 is all about faith.
 
Amen and again I shout Amen! My perpetual prayer is for Elohim teach me better and more reverential ways of Worship, ways that show His majesty. The irreverence abounds in the Church, as it does in our homes to day. We no longer teach our families that the Lord of our house, our families is to never disrespect him, never to tread on his Second, to fear them in the way that everyone knows that ou love them ad never want to be guilty of hurting them.

Great lesson, Chopper!

O Bill, coming from you, I treasure your remarks. I pray and hope that you're finding Abba Father's watch care over your terribly painful body. I fell backwards twice a couple of weeks ago and broke my tail bone. Boy, you and I sure have had a painful journey as we sojourn thru this land on our way to a pain free home in the New Jerusalem.

Hang tough old soldier, very soon we'll be there. I hope that our mansions are side by side....

John 14:1 "Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in Elohim, believe also in me.
14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
(and Bill)
14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also....


I love you, my old friend,
Chopper
 
If I have faith that the elevator will take me up,
I believe the elevator will take me up.
Consider the person who has faith that the elevator will take him up but uses the stairs because he doesn't trust the elevator.
Does he really have faith?
Or does he just believe that the elevator takes people up and down but prefers his own way?
Faith is meaningless without faithfulness.
Faithfulness is deciding to do "it" God's way instead of my way.

What Biblical faith is NOT is the belief that a set of teachings accurately represents reality but requires no response on the part of the believer other than to acknowledge that accuracy to be fact.

iakov the fool
 
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O Bill, coming from you, I treasure your remarks. I pray and hope that you're finding Abba Father's watch care over your terribly painful body. I fell backwards twice a couple of weeks ago and broke my tail bone. Boy, you and I sure have had a painful journey as we sojourn thru this land on our way to a pain free home in the New Jerusalem.

Hang tough old soldier, very soon we'll be there. I hope that our mansions are side by side....

John 14:1 "Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in Elohim, believe also in me.
14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
(and Bill)
14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also....

I love you, my old friend,
Chopper
That would be a good thing. I fell a couple of weeks ago and bust my head open and you know how the skull enjoys letting pressure out and yep, with all this blood thinner to keep me from one more heart attack, I bled like a stuck hog. Scared my wife half to death. If i keep this up Iwill win the gold at the next Invalid Olympics.
 
But does belief grow? Faith however does.

2 Cor. 10: 15 not glorying beyond our measure, that is, in other men’s labors; but having hope that, as your faith groweth, we shall be magnified in you according to our province unto further abundance.

I once had a woman who suffered a haranging spirit of darkness, that every time she would leave the house this spirit would so attack her she had to return to the house for it to stop the haranging. She tried prayer, doctors, psychologists, everything..!
I had been teaching bible studies way off in the countryside, and to make a long story short, this woman showed up. She didn't know where I was, but she said the Lord told her to get in her car and follow the light, she did, and it led right to the farm where I was. She said the Lord told her that I would have the answer to her problem.
As she told me what was happening the Lord laid this verse on my spirit, " He has not given us a spirit of fear, but love, Joy, and a sound mind." I told her to take this word from the Lord as a cup, and put that little bit of faith you have in the cup. And when that spirit starts to harang you, stick that cup right in its face. The next week I heard that she was free at long last, able to go where ever she pleased...!
Belief is like being pregnant , you either are, or your not. Faith however grows as a mustard seed, till it is huge as a tree, that birds can nest in. Also faith is that which the Spirit enables. 1Cor, 12: 8 For to one is given through the Spirit the word of wisdom; and to another the word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit:
9 to another faith, in the same Spirit; and to another gifts of healings, in the one Spirit;

In Love. BarElohim

Shalom, that my Brother in Yahshua is a wonderful testimony of the power of Ha Ben Yahshua. Our Ruach Kodesh has so many gifts to impart to those in need with so many Believers who never ask Elohim to ask His Kodesh to work one of His gifts to heal or help a poor soul who's been praying to Abba Father for years for His grace. You certainly are an example of a true "Called Out One".

Remember this my friend....
Colossians 3:1 "If ye then be risen with the Messiah, seek those things which are above, where the Messiah sitteth on the right hand of Elohim.
3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with the Messiah in Elohim."


Shalom and love to you and yours,
Chopper
 
Now, my point is, Moses didn't do what Elohim commanded Moses to do out of faith, no no, Moses did what Elohim commanded because He believed Elohim with his whole heart.
Then Moses had faith that he was able to do what Elohim told him to do.
Faith is demonstrated by the actions of the faithful person.
Heb 11:3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God,
Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain
Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, ..., prepared an ark for the saving of his household,
Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham obeyed .... And he went out
Heb 11:9 By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country,
Heb 11:17 By faith Abraham, ..., offered up Isaac,
Heb 11:20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.
Heb 11:21 By faith Jacob, ..., blessed each of the sons of Joseph,
Heb 11:22 By faith Joseph, when he was dying, made mention of the departure of the children of Israel, and gave instructions concerning his bones.
Heb 11:23 By faith Moses, ..., was hidden three months by his parents,
Heb 11:24 By faith Moses, ..., refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter,
Heb 11:27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king;
etc.
etc.
etc.

Faith is demonstrated by the action of the faithful person.

iakov the fool
 
All "Called Out Ones" are Believers, not faithers. As we mature in the study of the Torah and the teachings of the Apostles, our beliefs change due to expanded revelation in the complete Word of Elohim. It is what we believe that sets our course of obedience. Since we only have the faith of a mustard seed, our beliefs of what Abba Father is capable of doing is as solid as His promises.
 
Then Moses had faith that he was able to do what Elohim told him to do.
Faith is demonstrated by the actions of the faithful person.
Heb 11:3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God,
Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain
Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, ..., prepared an ark for the saving of his household,
Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham obeyed .... And he went out
Heb 11:9 By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country,
Heb 11:17 By faith Abraham, ..., offered up Isaac,
Heb 11:20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.
Heb 11:21 By faith Jacob, ..., blessed each of the sons of Joseph,
Heb 11:22 By faith Joseph, when he was dying, made mention of the departure of the children of Israel, and gave instructions concerning his bones.
Heb 11:23 By faith Moses, ..., was hidden three months by his parents,
Heb 11:24 By faith Moses, ..., refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter,
Heb 11:27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king;
etc.
etc.
etc.

Faith is demonstrated by the action of the faithful person.

iakov the fool
They had faith because they believed Yahweh could be trusted.
 
Only by faith can we truly believe God.
You used both words being discussed in a sentence!
Can the opposite also be true?
By believing in God, can my faith grow?
Faith is not so much about belief without proof but trust without reservation (to be unconditional). This is the pinnacle of a belief grown into the obvious. Faith unreserved is to believe God, because God is no longer a belief but obvious.
Note, my original post above does not say 'believing in God', but 'believe God'. The difference is, believing is not yet obvious, there is still some reservation. As long as there is some reservation both belief and faith still has room to grow. So...
...By believing in God, can my faith grow?
Yes, it still can grow.

Let go - let God:
For me, letting go of 'self' to let God, is to be unconditional, unreserved, to let God be obvious.
 
Faith is demonstrated by the action of the faithful person.

Yes, "belief" is not synonymous with "faith." If one insists on a one-word substitute for faith, "trust" would be a better choice.

"Faith" requires action on or commitment to one's beliefs. Faith arises out of belief.

I can both believe something to be true and know it to be true: My car is a Ford. I believe it and know it. No faith is required.

Faith - trust - is required when what one believes cannot be known. I know my car is a Ford, but I cannot know it will get me to New Jersey next week without breaking down. I believe this is what Hebrews 11:1 (NASB) is getting at when it states, "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen."

The belief that serves as the foundation for faith can be, and generally is, based on knowledge. I believe my Ford will get me to New Jersey because I know this model's reputation for reliability, I know how I have maintained this particular car, and I know a qualified mechanic just checked it out yesterday. I thus have a strong and well-founded belief - a conviction - it will get me to New Jersey. I demonstrate my (non-religious) faith by getting behind the wheel and starting the trip.

Faith becomes confusing in the Christian context because Christians maintain that God has revealed Himself and that the Holy Spirit indwells us. This thus seems like direct knowledge: I believe and know my car is a Ford because I bought it from a Ford dealer and can go look at it in my garage; I believe and know God is real because He has revealed Himself through His Word and His actions in history, He has answered my prayers, and I have experienced the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

This "internal knowing" may indeed qualify as a species of knowledge, but it is knowledge that ripens only as I move forward in faith, trusting in what I believe and allowing God to reveal Himself more fully to the point where I can say: "I know this to be true." No one begins the journey of faith with anything more than a glimmer of this internal knowing.

Someone who has not experienced this internal knowing could disagree and say that I'm simply disturbed or deceived. He could not, however, say "You merely believe." He would have to acknowledge, "Well, I may not believe what you believe, but I'll have to admit you certainly have faith in what you believe" - meaning "I can look at your life and see that you really trust in what you say you believe."
 
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